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[Doc Holliday]

I meant storage space as in RAM, all the new consoles have enough ram that it doesn't even matter anymore. And i dont think animations have been cut because of lack of space on dvd's. Animation files are small as hell.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Sure in motion MGS4 looks better but again, even though the trailer was realtime it was lacking actaul gameplay and while I'm sure the game will look like that when finished it can't be stressed enough that this happened before. Recall the MGS2 trailers over a year and a half a great demo and then a dissapointing peice of shit game in the end. It looked nice , made me and many others buy a ps2 but in the end it made me hate the franchise.

What can't be stressed enough is that MGS2's trailer and MGS2 looked exactly the same. As some have said, this is the worst showcase of desperation on some peoples part in a long time.

 

[Vince]

Animation is about storage space, which MS didn't account for.

If I were to speculate I'd say that Next-Generation is going to be just as much about moving towards dynamic and adaptive simulations which require real-time computation on several fronts: multiple-body simulation, some form of AI|Neural|Bayesian control network, etc. All of which are bounded (or can be made to be bounded AFAIK) by computation, or, more specifically, floating-point computational preformance.

PS mgs4 is using normal maps, they are just being more subtle about it than most.

Right, so they're used properly.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

What the bloody hell are you talking about? What does the animation in GOW have to do with the specs of the 360? Do you fucks even think before you say things like this?

The design of the Xbox360 is such that, compared to Xbox, the graphics get pushed forward, while sacrificing the animation. The x360 is actually only a little more powerful than the xbox. It allows for far more complex graphics than xbox, but actually forces you to do less with animation, making everything look like a movie in which every actor is a 1980's robot. It's the hardware design choice that will hurt them most this gen.


Note: If the above makes no fucking sense at all, there is a good reason why.

 

[trmas]

Then MS needs to get on their developers, because the difference in animation between the 360 and PS3 titles is absolutely huge.

Gotta give Rare props for getting a handle on the graphic effects so quickly, though. Maybe Rare should get the other's together and show them how to do it?

 

[Pseudo judo]

What the bloody hell are you talking about? What does the animation in GOW have to do with the specs of the 360? Do you fucks even think before you say things like this?

Ssshhhh!! Your giving away the punch line before the jokes finished. Just get your popcorn and enjoy the insanity.

He was just joking Sony fanboys. Please continue, you were saying....

 

[DonasaurusRex]

MGS4 has more style, GOW looks more eye popping though...just like it has better color or richer colors i should say. But the art in MSG wow it doesnt even look like polys anymore thats something.

 

[op_ivy]

What can't be stressed enough is that MGS2's trailer and MGS2 looked exactly the same. As some have said, this is the worst showcase of desperation on some peoples part in a long time.

it looks the same, as in, the same graphics running the show, yeah. but obviously any time you run a cut scene, you get artistic camera angles and perfect scene placement. a while back there was a clip of gears of war and cliffy b from g4. this clip had both gameplay footage and some breif cinema clips of the game. the cinema clips of gears of war looked incredible. arguably comparable to this mgs cinema footage.

 

[gofreak]

A note: Animation (or the subset that is character animation) isn't necessarily some static thing you read off a disc...if you're using physically based models and the like, or if you're simulating say muscle movement or whatever, it becomes much more an issue of computation.

Carry on.

 

[TwixDawg]

What can't be stressed enough is that MGS2's trailer and MGS2 looked exactly the same.

can you dodge a bullet and then throw a knive in slow mo during gameplay?

 

[Vennt]

can you dodge a bullet and then throw a knive in slow mo during gameplay?

No but I can rub my belly and scratch my ass at the same time, does that count?

 

[Gek54]

Uh... The console with "almost free AA" is Xbox360, not PS3.

Wasnt there one 360 dev who thought otherwise?

 

[Gek54]

can you dodge a bullet and then throw a knive in slow mo during gameplay?

Graphically the same, douche.

 

[Doc Holliday]

A note: Animation isn't necessarily some static thing you read off a disc...if you're using physically based models and the like, or if you're simulating say muscle movement or whatever, it becomes much more an issue of computation.

Carry on.

That's physics simulation, i think most comments are about Snakes animation.

 

[Speevy]

The design of the Xbox360 is such that, compared to Xbox, the graphics get pushed forward, while sacrificing the animation. The x360 is actually only a little more powerful than the xbox. It allows for far more complex graphics than xbox, but actually forces you to do less with animation, making everything look like a movie in which every actor is a 1980's robot. It's the hardware design choice that will hurt them most this gen.


Note: If the above makes no fucking sense at all, there is a good reason why.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Sho Nuff]

I was excited about MGS2 based on the trailer because the

TRAILER
SHOWED
GAMEPLAY

The MGS3 trailer shows a very nice cutscene rendered with the Cell chip.

 

[gofreak]

That's physics simulation, i think most comments are about Snakes animation.

The lines are becoming blurred..and more traditional animation (for example, inverse kinematics) is still something that requires computation.

And I think it's as much the more general "animation"/movement in the scene that strikes as much difference (which is moving into the "what you can't see" territory that kojima has been harping on about..or at least what you can't see in still shots).

 

[AlphaSnake]

can you dodge a bullet and then throw a knive in slow mo during gameplay?

They *looked* the same, ya' stupid fuck. And this is a terrible thread, too.

 

[Cuth]

Wasnt there one 360 dev who thought otherwise?

I don't know. A drunk dev?

 

[Doube D]

lol. The xbots can't handle it seems. HEHE. Guys, you can come up with a billion excuses... In the end, any idiot can tell you that MGS4 pisses (yes pisses) all over GoW graphically, aesthetically, technically.... you name it. And it does all that a full year or more before its release, all the while GoW struggles to keep a steady frame rate after years of work on the engine and the game itself (alpha kits…AMIRITE?). lol. pathetic

So why not just be happy MS paid epic to throw its starving citizens a bone. Go chew on it and enjoy, but please stop comparing it to the filet mignon that is MGS 4.

 

[mashoutposse]

One is running at 15fps (even in cutscenes with zero AI or physics), while the other is at a rock-solid 60fps despite the better onscreen results.

GOW shouldn't be compared to MGS4; the game runs pretty poorly while already looking worse most of the time.

 

[Pseudo judo]

lol. The xbots can't handle it seems. HEHE. Guys, you can come up with a billion excuses... In the end, any idiot can tell you that MGS4 pisses (yes pisses) all over GoW graphically, aesthetically, technically.... you name it. And it does all that a full year or more before its release, all the while GoW struggles to keep a steady frame rate after years of work on the engine and the game itself (alpha kits…AMIRITE?). lol. pathetic

So why not just be happy MS paid epic to throw its starving citizens a bone. Go chew on it and enjoy, but please stop comparing it to the filet mignon that is MGS 4.

*Eats more popcorn* :lol. Great stuff this, you were saying....

 

[jett]

You know, when I first read the title I thought "Man, that MGS4 direct feed trailer has finally been released!".

 

[longdi]

MGS4 run circles around Doom3 v2.0. GOW has more normal maps than polygons. That is a bad thing. I hate the flat normal mapped to hell look. Same shit with Doom3, and now Unreal Engine. Kojima bitchslap both Carmack and Sweeny.

 

[Speevy]

We really do need another cleansing.

 

[Cuth]

One is running at 15fps (even in cutscenes with zero AI or physics), while the other is at a rock-solid 60fps despite the better onscreen results.

GOW shouldn't be compared to MGS4; the game runs pretty poorly while already looking worse most of the time.

To be fair you should also say that's much more easy to optimise a single, not interactive cutscene than a whole game.

They're two very different games, both not finished at all... The comparison is pretty useless, IMHO.

 

[Insertia]

Technically MGS4 is doing a lot more than GoW.

 

[TwixDawg]

MGS4 run circles around Doom3 v2.0. GOW has more normal maps than polygons. That is a bad thing. I hate the flat normal mapped to hell look. Same shit with Doom3, and now Unreal Engine. Kojima bitchslap both Carmack and Sweeny.

which is why both of their games sold more?

 

[Doube D]

which is why both of their games sold more?

LOL. xbot logic at its best. This is a discussion about graphics. GTA has sold more than all of those series COMBINED. IT MUST LOOK BETTER RIGHT?? Go return your brain, its defective.

 

[jett]

:lol Best. Comparison. EVER.

 

[Ryudo]

The design of the Xbox360 is such that, compared to Xbox, the graphics get pushed forward, while sacrificing the animation. The x360 is actually only a little more powerful than the xbox. It allows for far more complex graphics than xbox, but actually forces you to do less with animation, making everything look like a movie in which every actor is a 1980's robot. It's the hardware design choice that will hurt them most this gen.


Note: If the above makes no fucking sense at all, there is a good reason why.

You deserve a tag for that stupid statement.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

You deserve a tag for that stupid statement.

He was being sarcastic.


God I hope.

 

[raYne]

LOL. xbot logic at its best. This is a discussion about graphics. GTA has sold more than all of those series COMBINED. IT MUST LOOK BETTER RIGHT?? Go return your brain, its defective.

Not that his argument was the least bit valid, but if it's about graphics then why are animation and artstyle brought up every 5 seconds?

*cue "animation and artstyle are parts of graphics!" excuse*

 

[Culex]

which is why both of their games sold more?

You mean the Enter the Matrix looks better?

 

[Doube D]

Not that his argument was the least bit valid, but if it's about graphics then why is animation brought up every 5 seconds?

*cue "graphics are part of animation" excuse*

annimation is part of graphics, but frankly, I don't consider it to be part of this argument. MGS 4 looks better period (in terms of models-poly count, particle effects, lighting, physics.....).

 

[Rorschach]

*cue "graphics are part of animation" excuse*

...what...

 

[jett]

What can't be stressed enough is that MGS2's trailer and MGS2 looked exactly the same. As some have said, this is the worst showcase of desperation on some peoples part in a long time.

First it was: "It's pre-rendered, lol."

Then: "LMAO no way it looks like that in gameplay."

Afterwards: "ROFL GoW owns that bitch."

And now the current mantra is: "Whatever, I haven't played the game and I basically know shit about it and despite MGS3 being considered game of the gen by most people of the forum I just KNOW the game will be shit. Haha!"

I wonder what will the next step be.

 

[raYne]

...what...

Fixed it already.

 

[Amir0x]

Not that his argument was the least bit valid, but if it's about graphics then why are animation and artstyle brought up every 5 seconds?

*cue "animation and artstyle are parts of graphics!" excuse*

This deserves the biggest "..." of TGS week.

This thread has a lot of winners.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Also why is this considered a shitty thread? reminds me of all the old genesis versus snes days. Rather have this than the countless sales threads. They aren't called console wars for nothing.

 

[Ryudo]

lol. The xbots can't handle it seems. HEHE. Guys, you can come up with a billion excuses... In the end, any idiot can tell you that MGS4 pisses (yes pisses) all over GoW graphically, aesthetically, technically.... you name it. And it does all that a full year or more before its release, all the while GoW struggles to keep a steady frame rate after years of work on the engine and the game itself (alpha kits…AMIRITE?). lol. pathetic

So why not just be happy MS paid epic to throw its starving citizens a bone. Go chew on it and enjoy, but please stop comparing it to the filet mignon that is MGS 4.

What a pathetic individual. MGS4 "pisses" on GOW...... :lol grow up.

 

[Speevy]

annimation is part of graphics, but frankly, I don't consider it to be part of this argument. MGS 4 looks better period (in terms of models-poly count, particle effects, lighting, physics.....).

That end boss fight was cool, wasn't it? Much better than the one in Gears of War.

 

[Draft]

This is a good thread, but not for this forum. Fellating Hideo Kojima is part of the registration process.

 

[GitarooMan]

And now the current mantra is: "Whatever, I haven't played the game and I basically know shit about it and despite MGS3 being considered game of the gen by most people of the forum I just KNOW the game will be shit. Haha!"

I don't think anyone thinks MGS4 is going to be shit (at least I hope not). Everyone knows it's going to be great. I think sometimes though it gets a little tiring hearing how a game months and months from coming out will be the end all and everything else must tremble in its wake. I mean, I love the MGS series, but I don't place it on a pedestal above every other game. To each his own though. People are rightly excited after the trailer and it will likely die down soon anyway.

I have to agree with people who think the normal-mapping on Gow is overdone, I hate the plasticky look. IMO, it's not even the best looking x360 game that's been shown.

 

[Speevy]

And now the current mantra is: "Whatever, I haven't played the game and I basically know shit about it and despite MGS3 being considered game of the gen by most people of the forum I just KNOW the game will be shit. Haha!"

.

:lol :lol :lol

Did you actually just post that as some sort of argument?

 

[Doc Holliday]

Amirox, he's kind of right. Animation and art style are not measurement of system power but of developer skill. "omg Solid snake looks like hes really holding the gun" "omg solid snake moves so smoothly" Thats skillz not the ps3. I think the ps3 is more powerful than the 360, by how much who knows. I would love to see what kojima could with the 360 or the rev for that matter.

 

[jett]

Also why is this considered a shitty thread? reminds me of all the old genesis versus snes days. Rather have this than the countless sales threads. They aren't called console wars for nothing.

IWATP. This thread is all kinds of awesome.

 

[Gek54]

We really do need another cleansing.

Is this a suicide threat?

 

[Gek54]

Amirox, he's kind of right. Animation and art style are not measurement of system power but of developer skill.

Actually smooth animation does tax the hardware.

 

[J2 Cool]

I was excited about MGS2 based on the trailer because the

TRAILER
SHOWED
GAMEPLAY

The MGS3 trailer shows a very nice cutscene rendered with the Cell chip.

It's MGS4. MGS3 was already released, and considering you seem to love gameplay, you should definitely go play it. I hear it plays awesome. And hey, give MGS4 more than 3 months to do a little gameplay and I have a funny feeling it could do the same.