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[Amir0x]

Amirox, of course animation and artstyle for the basis of great graphics. What i'm saying is people are using animation/artstyle to determine system power. Smooth animation is not overly dependent on hardware because animations are baked on to rigs, they are not generated in real time like physics simulations.

I don't agree that animation is not very much dependent on hardware, but I do agree that people should not be using it in this case to determine system power. It's pretty silly at this point in any event. It has been beat to hell, really.

I like how he's almost out of breath through most of the trailer but still thinks its a good idea to smoke.

Yeah. God I can't wait for the E3 2006 trailer already

 

[Striek]

MGS4 looks considerably worse in screens than it does in motion. GOW is the opposite. But thats just my opinion. They both look hot, they are somewhat comparable, but in all aspects Kojima and his team have schooled the crew at Epic.

 

[Kuroyume]

One of my problems with GOW is how fucking slow the characters move. The run around like fucking midgets.

 

[Norse]

How can you say mgs4 is animatd better when you havent seen anything but ingame cutscenes?

come on now, they both loo great in screenshots and gow is the only one that has been seen being played. Cutscenes are pretty to look at, but they aint the game.


so, nintendo showed us the controller, sony gave us a trailer, and ms gave us a console and games that were playable at tgs.

 

[DCharlie]

"Would it be fair to say, that in their current states, Metal Gear Solid 4 is like...a generation ahead of...*thinks of something* I-8?"

MGS4 looks amazing BUT it's a canned demo with canned animation (yes, i know... MGS3 has real good animation etc...) it's a bit unfair comparing this to something that's actually having to process in game, surely?

I'd hazard it's going to be a while before we get to true animation systems where every movement is beautifully calculated and flows perfectly on every character in a game.

 

[Rhindle]

I would just like to point out that both those shots are taken from cutscenes, and are almost completely irrelevant to any meaningful hardware comparison.

Not that I expect that to get in the way of the raging fanboy wars, so carry on.

 

[PS2 KID]

Holy crap.

Okay, let's ditch Gears of War for a second and go off on an illogical tangent.

Would it be fair to say, that in their current states, Metal Gear Solid 4 is like...a generation ahead of...*thinks of something* I-8?

Seriously though, man. There are two games I want to see on the next-gen systems, and those are Halo 3 and Splinter Cell. If Bungie and Ubisoft can't outdo this, no one can.

It's not just those teams. It's developers everywhere on every system. The stakes have been raised and Kojima Productions have set the bar high. I wonder how embarrassed Kutaragi must have felt inside probably secretly knowing that none of Sony's internal teams have anything on par with MGS4 as of now. Kojima's team are masochists. The more challenging task, the more they like it.

Yeah, it does seem on another level ahead of something like I-8 now that you mention it. I guess we're used to seeing high res PC-ish type graphics to define the state of the art. MGS4 is like a sudden jolt to our expectations. It seems more natural and organic.

 

[Nerevar]

I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but this comparison is retarded. In stills, I think GOW looks better on a technical level. But the teaser for MGS4 was some of the best animated things we've seen. Of course, we're comparing gameplay for one game to a cutscene of another, which is retarded in its own right. What it boils down to is MGS manages to look great due to artistic flair, not strictly technical prowess. The series has always been that way.

 

[mashoutposse]

Norse: Is providing playable content 2 months before launch supposed to be exceptional? It is quite literally the least MS could do.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Just to point out again for those that continue to doubt the animation

PSM2: How will Snake look on PS3?

HK: We’re not trying to make Snake look like a real person. We want to concentrate on the movement and animations, making him feel more natural, like an actual life-form.

The animation is his focus with the graphics in MGS4 since the theme of it is being natural.

 

[Striek]

Of course, we're comparing gameplay for one game to a cutscene of another, which is retarded in its own right.

This thread started with a cutscene to cutscene comparison, and afaik, still is.

 

[Insertia]

PSM2: How will Snake look on PS3?

HK: We’re not trying to make Snake look like a real person.

fission mailed.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

fission mailed.

Haha, they're so good they succeed even when they aren't really trying!! Jokes aside, this team has a hell of a sense of balance when it comes to overall graphics presentation.

 

[lips]

does the gow demo have 8 angles or 16 angles charactor animations? what a waste of time threads like this are. I hope all you bill gate lovers add this side by side to your alter, light a dozen candles, and hide in your tent set up around the tv and kiss the pillow you left where your xbox 360 is planned to be 'deposited'

 

[jett]

fission mailed.

:lol Man Kojima's team is freaking nuts. The E3 2k6 trailer is going to be insane...

 

[Nerevar]

This thread started with a cutscene to cutscene comparison, and afaik, still is.

the point was related to animation. I may be in the minority, but I have yet to see animated cutscenes from GoW. The comparison for animation between the two games has stemmed directly from the gameplay footage we've seen of GoW and the realtime cutscene from MGS. That sort of comparison is dumb. But of course, we're all console fanboys, dumb comparisons is what we excel at.

I personally think the UE footage from PS3 is technically the most impressive thing I've seen on any next gen system.

 

[fortified_concept]

Enough is enough. It seems pretty clear to me now that some xbox fans call these forums Sony-age just because there are reasonable people who disagree with their fanboy views. GoW is not even comparable with MGS4 for many reasons. I won't take into consideration GoW's animation which looks even worse than some of this gen's games, it's simply that ridiculous, that when compared to MGS4 looks like a generation leap difference between them (the papers flying in the air, the robot falling down after Otacon mentions the Cell processor, the soldiers' movement and many many other in MGS4 prove that) and I won't mention the TERRIBLE framerate which doesn't even compare to MGS4's rock solid 60 frames. Let's only compare the graphics.

First of all most of you, even some of you who defend logic, are comparing HQ touched up pics provided by Microsoft (GoW) with non direct feed footage that looks like crap especially in captures (MGS4). That's stupid. Don't do that. Second, the freaking Snake model is superior to GoW's model in so many aspects that I don't even know where to start. The eyes, the wrinkles, the moustache, the hair, the bandana, the uniform, the teeth, SNAKE'S FUCKING TONGUE etc etc. Third and most important look at the vids for god's sake:

Gow TGS trailer: http://trailers.gametrailers.com:80/gt_vault/t_gow_xb360_tgs5.mov

Pay attention to the cutscene somewhere in the middle of the vid to see the characters closely. Fire effects are ridiculous btw.

MGS TGS trailer: http://www.hightymes.org:80/IGN/video/MGS_4.wmv


And when you compare the two consoles power-wise do you even pause from your denial mode and think for a sec that PS3 can handle MGS4's graphics and its incredicle animation at 60 frames/sec on beta kits, while 360 is doing GoW's graphics and terrible animation at 20 frames/sec on final kits? Your xbox goggles prevent you from watching the truth. Take them off. Over and out.

 

[Pimpwerx]

In I-8's ugly defense, it was very early. And since it hasn't been shown since E3, it might well be...well...somewhere near MGS4. I won't say on the same level, b/c I honestly thought the game looked ugly at E3. But seeing as Fight Night already made a large improvement from the E3 demo, and Deano seems very confident in Heavenly Sword, then anything's possible. We'll see. PEACE.

 

[GSG Flash]

Gears of War doesn't look that great. I was watching the presentation video on gametrailers and I think Battlefield 2 looks better than it. I mean it looks good still but it's graphics are way overrated. It still had some things on the graphics side that a next gen game shouldn't have like flat grass or jerky animations.

MGS4 on the other hand looked very clean and nice, but since I have yet to see actual gameply footage of it, I will reserve my judgement. But if the actual game turns out to be like the trailer, then I think it will easily be better graphically than GoW.

 

[jimbo]

In screens, honestly GOW looks better than MGS4. In motion, MGS4 has the better animation. Of course that also has a lot to do with the fact that what we've seen of GOW has been actual gameplay while MGS4 was mostly cinematics.

 

[Red Blaster]

I like how MGS4 was a target render on Thursday, but now it's "not that great looking anyway".

 

[fortified_concept]

In screens, honestly GOW looks better than MGS4. In motion, MGS4 has the better animation. Of course that also has a lot to do with the fact that what we've seen of GOW has been actual gameplay while MGS4 was mostly cinematics.

*sigh* So nobody read my post huh? What do you mean "in screens"? Like this one?

Touched up HQ pic. Do you compare it with non direct feed MGS4 captures? And in case you want to imply that the MGS4 trailer in motion has better animation but worse graphics than GoW then my friend you're either in denial or extremely blind.

 

[Nerevar]

Touched up HQ pic. Do you compare it with non direct feed MGS4 captures? And in case you want to imply that the MGS4 trailer in motion has better animation but worse graphics than GoW then my friend you're either in denial or extremely blind.

technically, the MGS4 photos were not that impressive. Of course, I know that doesn't fit into that tight little "you think this is the best looking thing ever or you're a stoopid xbox fanboy" world of yours, but you should compare it on a technical level. It manages to look good by intelligently using the art assets in creative and realistic ways. As I said earlier, the technically most impressive thing we've seen is UE3 on the PS3.

And once again, this is a retarded comparison. Are you comparing touched up screens from MS to stills from a realtime engine, or are you comparing gameplay animation to in engine cutscenes? It's a lose-lose proposition. There's no level ground to look at these two games evenly at.

 

[maximum360]

I don't know why I even waste my time on these forums. People never learn. It's the same cycle every gen.

You have people comparing still shots and movies of unfinished games and drawing conlusion. I mean, how unintelligent is that, yet it's done again and again.

I'm getting both consoles. Those who think the PS3 is miles ahead are going to be in of quite a shocker. With the development of these consoles so close together you're really at the point of diminishing returns.

Nevertheless, as in the words of our dear friend fortified_concept, the folly on GAF is nothing less than incredicle. (And yes, your spelling is as flawed as your logic. Go back to grade school.)

 

[Raven.]

the point was related to animation. I may be in the minority, but I have yet to see animated cutscenes from GoW. The comparison for animation between the two games has stemmed directly from the gameplay footage we've seen of GoW and the realtime cutscene from MGS. That sort of comparison is dumb. But of course, we're all console fanboys, dumb comparisons is what we excel at.

I personally think the UE footage from PS3 is technically the most impressive thing I've seen on any next gen system.

Dunnoh if it was the vid, or the actual demo, but while moving, the massive amount of normal mapped detail on the low poly models looked texturish rather than solid 3d, like snake. It's the same problem I've seen on the the GoW vids. In motion and when shadows fall on the models or when you get too close, they seem to reveal their true low poly nature. Even the pics at the UE tech page show this(flat 2d chains, blocky gun nozzles, sharp angles on models, not too impressive monster fingers, etc.). It's the reason why I've not been impressed with UE3 epic engine vids, environments look otherworldly and nigh perfect, but characters don't look so hot, though it could be that I need to see better quality vids.

edit: Also when the models move, their limbs appear to clip right through the normal mapped details(or so it seems even in the very first pic on this thread.). This may be impossible to solve on low poly models without using different normal maps for each different pose, or somehow calculating the distortions on the normal maps. It's as if they simply break the limbs while bending and allow portions to go right through each other.

 

[kaching]

:lol Hats off to MrBob for officially ushering in the return of screenshot wars. I don't think it could have been done with more panache than with that head to head shot...and almost 300 posts in 4 hrs!

2nd best part of this thread was Lazy8s parodying himself.

 

[Speevy]

Enough is enough. It seems pretty clear to me now that some xbox fans call these forums Sony-age just because there are reasonable people who disagree with their fanboy views.

The Xbox has been mocked and its fans treated like garbage since long before the PS3 was even shown to the public.

With regard to

-Sales
-Western developers
-Graphics (even though the Xbox is more powerful than the PS2)

And when you compare the two consoles power-wise do you even pause from your denial mode and think for a sec that PS3 can handle MGS4's graphics and its incredicle animation at 60 frames/sec on beta kits, while 360 is doing GoW's graphics and terrible animation at 20 frames/sec on final kits? Your xbox goggles prevent you from watching the truth. Take them off. Over and out.

[/quote]

The PS3 is the more powerful console. The point of this thread is that there will be thousands of games next-generation, and a great many of them will be on the Xbox 360. They're part of the same generation. And just like many generations before this one, we'll see plenty of great looking next-generation games for both of them.

Read your post again. What are you hoping to accomplish, seriously? Do you hope that everyone who doesn't share your view just concedes and abandons the Xbox 360? It sure sounds like it, which means you're no better than the "fanboy goggles" folk you claim to know.

May I suggest that you're taking this stuff WAY too seriously?

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

:lol Hats off to MrBob for officially ushering in the return of screenshot wars. I don't think it could have been done with more panache than with that head to head shot...and almost 300 posts in 4 hrs!

2nd best part of this thread was Lazy8s parodying himself.

Haha, I guess your right, remember when GT3 pics was practically used in every screenshot thread? Good times.

 

[Slurpy]

6 pages of this shit?

Damn you people are predictable.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

GoW has good models, certianly comparable and on the level of MGS4 but from the gameplay footage i watched from TGS, its the animation that is lacking and makes MGS4 standout. GoW moves very much like a "thisgen" game. Its not just the characters, that scene where the two soldiers push a burning car down the street at nighttime didn't really impress because of how bad the animation was. The way the car slid across teh street, and and especially when it falls, flies over a ledge, and then crashes and rolls looked like something out of a DC/PS2 game. Not graphically, but just the physics of it and the way it moved.

 

[fortified_concept]

technically, the MGS4 photos were not that impressive. Of course, I know that doesn't fit into that tight little "you think this is the best looking thing ever or you're a stoopid xbox fanboy" world of yours, but you should compare it on a technical level. It manages to look good by intelligently using the art assets in creative and realistic ways. As I said earlier, the technically most impressive thing we've seen is UE3 on the PS3.

And once again, this is a retarded comparison. Are you comparing touched up screens from MS to stills from a realtime engine, or are you comparing gameplay animation to in engine cutscenes? It's a lose-lose proposition. There's no level ground to look at these two games evenly at.

That's why I mentioned in my previous post that screenshot wars are stupid. Read it.

 

[Gek54]

The Xbox has been mocked and its fans treated like garbage since long before the PS3 was even shown to the public.

With regard to

-Sales
-Western developers
-Graphics (even though the Xbox is more powerful than the PS2)

Aw, poor Speevy. Keep up the fight. Here is a badge for your effort.

 

[Lazy8s]

The Metal Gear Solid 4 image with which that Gears of War screen was compared was just as touched up in anti-aliasing. If Metal Gear is indeed performing HDR lighting, it won't even have any multisampling, while Gears of War could very likely have 4xAA.

 

[Dave Long]

This thread is everything that's wrong with videogames right now.

 

[Raven.]

The Metal Gear Solid 4 image with which that Gears of War screen was compared was just as touched up in anti-aliasing. If Metal Gear is indeed performing HDR lighting, it won't even have any multisampling, while Gears of War could very likely have 4xAA.

It's unknown if the RSX can or cannot do AA and HDR at the same time. Also, if I'm not mistaken the HDR available on x360 is of lower precision(though I've heard it shouldn't be noticeable.), which if true means that at least on this aspect it's impossible to equal MGS technically even if visually the difference wasn't noticeable.

 

[Doc Holliday]

This thread is everything that's wrong with videogames right now.

Blast processing vs Mode 7
Carts vs cd-rom
64 colors on screen vs 256

Its been going on forever...new systems aren't out yet, what else can we do on a forum? hehe

 

[Amir0x]

This thread is everything that's wrong with videogames right now.

A hardcore group of videogame fanatics arguing about visuals in a few games is "everything that's wrong with videogames right now"?

Man, we really are in a good place in this industry.

 

[neptunes]

I remember blast processing and the FXchip :lol

 

[sonycowboy]

Can we all admit that this is getting fucking ridiculous and pathetic at this point?

 

[Raistlin]

i think thats a good comparison. technically, they're essentially identical.

Until you add in physics, backgrounds, framerate, animation, effects ... etc.

 

[Lazy8s]

The PS3's limitation of not being able to multisample when performing HDR lighting is known.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

This thread is everything that's wrong with videogames right now.

you think this is bad? Back in the day, Sega used to ENCOURAGE this kind of fanboy bickering in their ads. Remember the commercial that showed Sonic and Mario World running side by side?

 

[Dr_Cogent]

MGS4 looks amazing BUT it's a canned demo with canned animation (yes, i know... MGS3 has real good animation etc...) it's a bit unfair comparing this to something that's actually having to process in game, surely?

I'd hazard it's going to be a while before we get to true animation systems where every movement is beautifully calculated and flows perfectly on every character in a game.

One can only hope it's soon

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

The PS3's limitation of not being able to multisample when performing HDR lighting is known.

No, not really.

 

[PS2 KID]

you think this is bad? Back in the day, Sega used to ENCOURAGE this kind of fanboy bickering in their ads. Remember the commercial that showed Sonic and Mario World running side by side?

Genesis does! Can't do this on Nintendo!

Blast processing!

Fly PlayThing Fly!

I wonder if I've missed anything.

 

[Dave Long]

you think this is bad? Back in the day, Sega used to ENCOURAGE this kind of fanboy bickering in their ads. Remember the commercial that showed Sonic and Mario World running side by side?

I've lived it since the 2600/Intellivision days. I'm tired of it.

 

[PS2 KID]

I've lived it since the 2600/Intellivision days. I'm tired of it.

It'll never end Dave. Until there's one system left. Like Windows and those small fries using MacOS and linux. Rip BeOS.

 

[trmas]

GoW shouldn't feel bad about feeling owned by MGS4. It has a lot of company.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Can we all admit that this is getting fucking ridiculous and pathetic at this point?

I would hope so.

GoW shouldn't feel bad about feeling owned by MGS4. It has a lot of company.

Oh well. Shit still draws flies.

 

[FirstInHell]

That wasn't the comparison being made

And it's not just character animation. It's everything about the movement in MGS4, the way the environment moves for want of a better word. The dust, the "wind", the smoke etc.

I think static visuals aside, the potential for dynamic differences between the systems is the greater potential divider. That's not to say what MGS4 is doing could not be done by X360, but neither of the games being presented here are ultimate examples of either system's power over its lifetime. We don't have that yet. Certain things that are of CPU domain, though, that's they will be the greatest potential point of difference, and noticeable ones too (again in motion).

To balance the comparison more directly, how do we think UE3 will perform on PS3 vs X360..?

Your avatar gives away your position and prohibits anyone from taking anything you say seriously in a thread like this.

This whole Xbox vs ps3 shit is making this forum unreadable.