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The Wii U Speculation Thread VI: The Undiscovered Country

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Oct 1, 2006
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Is there a good chance that a big first party game will be announced in a leak the day of or a few days before the show???

I don't want that shit happening so close.

Or will NDAs be in effect all the way to the show???
 

Izick

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I'm curious how much WUC's will cost. I have confidence that they'll be sturdy, being Nintendo made, but it's still something to think about. I'm guessing 99.99.
 

walking fiend

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WiiU being barely on par with 360/PS3 is 'hugely' disappointing, not because I really care about technical graphics, but because it will become a wii not so late and stop getting ports

I'm curious how much WUC's will cost. I have confidence that they'll be sturdy, being Nintendo made, but it's still something to think about. I'm guessing 99.99.
I think probably 129.00
I mean, there's not way it costs less than DSi? It has everything DSi has and probably even more (considering CPU/GPU of DSi is practically nothing)
 

Izick

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WiiU being barely on par with 360/PS3 is 'hugely' disappointing, not because I really care about technical graphics, but because it will become a wii not so late and stop getting ports
But that's not the case at all.

I'm going for 65-75. Any more would be a bit too much for the average consumer.
I agree, but regular controllers go for that much now, or at least near that much.
 

wsippel

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May 25, 2006
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With all the talk about Microsoft focusing on becoming an entertainment hub, I wonder if Nintendo might actually manage to beat them to the punch. Yeah, lulz, it doesn't even play DVDs - nobody gives a fuck though. My reasoning is pretty simple: They have the better box for the purpose. Small, subdued design, (hopefully) quiet, always on, always connected. It also has the best possible controller for such a device. It's also not like Nintendo has anything against media content - they have several partnerships with content providers all over the world (Netflix and Hulu in the US, BBC, Sky and Eurosport in Europe, Fuji and dentsu in Japan). And probably most important of all: They don't compete with any traditional media corporation and they don't have any agendas to push.
 

StevieP

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Sep 10, 2006
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That is because of the developers, not the specs.

I guess that he basically ment to say that graphics inst everything, and that is true.
But that's all most developers are invested in, nowadays. Visuals. Other meaningful aspects like AI take a back seat. Everytime someone mentions "we need better hardware so we can have better AI!" I post a Crysis 2 gif.

WiiU being barely on par with 360/PS3 is 'hugely' disappointing, not because I really care about technical graphics, but because it will become a wii not so late and stop getting ports
It's modern architecture, dude. Whether it gets ports is up to the publishers (and whether they want to take the time, money, and manpower to down-port) - in other words, whether it's worth the investment to do so.
 

snesfreak

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WiiU being barely on par with 360/PS3 is 'hugely' disappointing, not because I really care about technical graphics, but because it will become a wii not so late and stop getting ports


I think probably 129.00
I mean, there's not way it costs less than DSi? It has everything DSi has and probably even more (considering CPU/GPU of DSi is practically nothing)
...wha?
 
Oct 1, 2006
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Indeed, it is all up to the developers. They choose what they want to focus on. Some can focus on both things just fine.
I just get tired of Mark Rein and all this visuals shit thrown in our faces.

I'd guess that if you asked someone like Retro and Valve what they look forward to in games in the future, it wouldn't be effects and whatnot.

I have nothing against Epic but sometimes I wonder about the priorites of some developers.

There's a reason that some of the best games of all time are REALLY old and also that some of the games of today won't be remebered even 5 years from now.
 

Nibel

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WiiU being barely on par with 360/PS3 is 'hugely' disappointing, not because I really care about technical graphics, but because it will become a wii not so late and stop getting ports

I think probably 129.00
I mean, there's not way it costs less than DSi? It has everything DSi has and probably even more (considering CPU/GPU of DSi is practically nothing)
 

walking fiend

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Apr 13, 2011
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sorry, forgot to implement the post I was answering -_-


It's modern architecture, dude. Whether it gets ports is up to the publishers (and whether they want to take the time, money, and manpower to down-port) - in other words, whether it's worth the investment to do so.
well, I guess down-porting (even to a rather similar architecture) is generally not hassle-free; or else we would get a Vita version for many games already.


But that's not the case at all.
I want to believe it is actually at least a dreamcast level of jump; but we actually got nothing to support being this powerful
 

ViewtifulJC

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There's a reason that some of the best games of all time are REALLY old and also that some of the games of today won't be remebered even 5 years from now.
And there's a reason that some of the best games of all time came out pretty recently and that the vast majority of games from yesteryear aren't remembered at all?

I guess I was trying to see your point, but uh...

Good developers will make the good games. That is the one constant.
 

antonz

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sorry, forgot to implement the post I was answering -_-



well, I guess down-porting (even to a rather similar architecture) is generally not hassle-free; or else we would get a Vita version for many games already.
Your vita comment isnt true at all. Hardware has to sell to make porting worth while. Publishers got burned heavily by the PSP besides for a few niche Japanese games. It would be stupid to bet the Vita would change that.

Wii U sales will be better than Vita for sure out of the gate etc it will then be upto sales of software to continue the support
 

PhoenixDawn

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WiiU being barely on par with 360/PS3 is 'hugely' disappointing, not because I really care about technical graphics, but because it will become a wii not so late and stop getting ports
I think that the Wii U's rumored specs (slightly above PS3/360) are all it really needs. As long as it can run HD games at reasonable frame rates I'm sure it will have solid support. Honestly, we've reached the point where it's becoming harder and harder for games to improve graphically to the point where it's noticeable to most people. Sure, 1080p and 60fps looks stunning, but the average person is not even going to notice the real difference from that and what the Wii U likely will put out. The Next 360 and PS4 will probably be larger jumps than the Wii U is, but that'll only bring along super high dev costs. With the Wii U being at least reasonably close in power/architecture to the current gen systems it'll be easier and cheaper to create games which will actual encourage more developers towards it and away from the likely significantly higher dev costs for the other two consoles.
At least that's my opinion, but I'm just a lowly GAF member with no credentials or expertise though, lol.
 

walking fiend

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Your vita comment isnt true at all. Hardware has to sell to make porting worth while. Publishers got burned heavily by the PSP besides for a few niche Japanese games. It would be stupid to bet the Vita would change that.

Wii U sales will be better than Vita for sure out of the gate etc it will then be upto sales of software to continue the support
yes, but core games sales on Wii has been pathetic too. Has any core game sold on Wii as much as Liberty City Stories on PSP?


We have nothing to say it isn't though. We aren't going to likely know about anything until E3.
well, the speculations and 'rumours' are mostly neutral/negative
 

IdeaMan

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Feb 21, 2012
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It was longer than expected to write sorry :p

nothing huge heh, it's like you expect haptic-level story every time
 

ColdBlooder

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Aug 24, 2006
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We have nothing to say it isn't though. We aren't going to likely know about anything until E3.
Didn´t you learn your lesson already?

Anonymous dev saying WiiU barely on par -> 100% true

Everybody else who said its more powerful -> FALSE, WiiU can´t be more powerful than current gen, anonymous dude said so! PERIOD!

This is how most of GAF thinks about this matter. Only E3 will tell the truth.
 

Izick

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Sep 25, 2011
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Didn´t you learn your lesson already?

Anonymous dev saying WiiU barely on par -> 100% true

Everybody else who said its more powerful -> FALSE, WiiU can´t be more powerful than current gen, anonymous dude said so! PERIOD!

This is how most of GAF thinks about this matter. Only E3 will tell the truth.
Damn, you're right. Wii U weaker than a 1st generation Roomba confirmed.
 

DrWong

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Nov 17, 2011
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Didn´t you learn your lesson already?

Anonymous dev saying WiiU barely on par -> 100% true

Everybody else who said its more powerful -> FALSE, WiiU can´t be more powerful than current gen, anonymous dude said so! PERIOD!

This is how most of GAF thinks about this matter. Only E3 will tell the truth.
And when someone take in account the "more powerful" script it's to immediately add "yes but how much more powerful? Just "on par more powerful"..."
 

test_account

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But that's all most developers are invested in, nowadays. Visuals. Other meaningful aspects like AI take a back seat. Everytime someone mentions "we need better hardware so we can have better AI!" I post a Crysis 2 gif.
Using one example like Halflife and one example as Crysis 2 doesnt really show the big picture though. If you go back to around the Halflife era, you wont find that every game have this form of AI. The same goes for Crysis 2 (i havnt played it, but i take your word for it here). There is also improvement in AI in driving games. Physics is also another thing that there is emphasis on. It is more than just the visuals.



I just get tired of Mark Rein and all this visuals shit thrown in our faces.

I'd guess that if you asked someone like Retro and Valve what they look forward to in games in the future, it wouldn't be effects and whatnot.

I have nothing against Epic but sometimes I wonder about the priorites of some developers.

There's a reason that some of the best games of all time are REALLY old and also that some of the games of today won't be remebered even 5 years from now.
I understand what you mean. Graphics isnt everything, but it sure can be nice to have, and also increase the enjoyment of the game (due to the graphics giving a better atmosphere etc. in the game).

And i agree that many of the greatest games are very old. But back in those days, many of those games were concidered to have great graphics :)
 

pestul

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After all the many hours spent following these wonderful threads leading into my anticipation of the E3 conference.. I will now miss it while on vacation in Cuba lol. Our trip had to be rescheduled due to fog delays and we now leave on June 2nd. :S

On the flip side, that is going to be one hell of a rush coming back on the 10th and trying to burn through all the juicy info.
 
Oct 1, 2006
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I understand what you mean. Graphics isnt everything, but it sure can be nice to have, and also increase the enjoyment of the game (due to the graphics giving a better atmosphere etc. in the game).
I'm moreso downplaying the urgency of having better visuals and irked by such a focus on them rather than saying they don't matter.

Others may feel differently but I think while cinematic gaming has never been bigger, really great ideas and design in games haven't progressed as far as I think they should.

I love great looking games but not at the expense of innovation.

I'm just perplexed that some think it's time for much better graphics.

Nintendo fans saying that is perfectly alright and understandable as we are used to the lackluster majority of Wii offerings but I can't see how fans of the other systems are "sick" of what their games output.
 

IdeaMan

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Feb 21, 2012
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[IdeaMan Info] About the disc drive, the supports used for studios titles at E3 2012, dev kits, etc.

It's the following content of this post

Wii U units and software brought at E3 2011 (system "history" infos, leading to new tidbits about the storage situation)

- Apparently, the titles & demos present at E3 2011 (maybe not all) were brought to the show on SD cards
- The port on the Wii U was made accessible for studios to run their content. I'm not sure if their projects worked directly from SD cards, or were then transfered to a flash memory or another storage to be launched from those instead.
- It seems no optical medias were involved at E3 2011. Wii U pseudo bluray weren't there at all. Some people could have thought, for certain demos, with the little LED lightened, etc. that such discs were present in the drives and that these were working, loaded the data & all, but it probably wasn't the case.
- With the latter information, it's plausible that Wii U brought didn't housed an optical drive. They surely were just the dev kits in a special form (surely the hardware removed from those big boxes and deprived of all the development stuff) with the activated at the time SD cards port.
- There's also a possibility that for several demos (in roundtables, etc.), real dev kits (i think lherre talked a little about this in the first thread) were hidden behind, and directly plugged to the TV's, with the software brought & stored through digital means (storage, flash, Host PC linked to the dev kits containing the content, emulating a normal drive, perhaps the hypothetic access times, etc.)
- About the optical drives, in the less likely scenario (see the last point + the following message in some days) that they were inside, they could have been not-yet-working-models, placeholders. This could indicate an optical storage situation still in flux at the time, still in the designing process.
- This could reinforce the hypothesis that the Wii U cases were just "mock-up", boxes rather quickly built to contain and hide the hardware they intended to bring at E3. It's a clear hint toward a possible change of the system appearance come E3 2012.
- Obviously, the situation has evolved since then, but not quickly after. This point will be made clearer in a following message about the optical storage of the Wii U.
So as promised in this last point, i'll elaborate further:

- Third-parties studios are currently receiving (if it's not the case, it will be very soon) Wii U "bluray" readers, writers, and discs.
- They must bring their projects on those Wii U supports at E3 2012. It's an obligation, by Nintendo. It means the rumors that games could be brought through other means are false (or concerns only a certain type of content, like digital distributed titles).
- There was a delay, like the mass production dev kits, in their arrival. Studios were waiting for this equipment since several weaks.
- They didn't came with the latest dev kits
- On the contrary to the mass production Wii dev kits (the green ones) that featured a disc drive, the Wii U dev kits still don't have one. The reader is separated.
- No confirmation nor denial of 50GB discs capacity.


Now some analysis, speculations/assumptions, and other infos:

- The Wii U units you'll see at E3 2012 will include optical drives, and the software demonstrated will be loaded from discs inside those, at least for retail titles.

- Wii U games were developed on dev kits linked to a host pc (running the SDK, the development tools, etc.), and it's possible the access/loading times were emulated, until now, as they will/have received the real support from which the software will be played. Let's hope this drive will be fast enough.

- It's not uncommon for developers to receive the medias, the storage of a new system rather late in its designing process. But here, the apparent delay is another element that could hint to a certain amount of time spent for either the engineering (physical modifications on the discs ? building of a proprietary file system that took longer ?), the manufacturing (burners, etc.) or the supplying, of these Wii U "bluray".

- Wii and some other consoles have seen their dev kits sizes shrank with each revisions, from the first Wii big box to the last, very smaller (basically, a retail unit, i'm talking proportion wise). For the Wii U, it's not the case, it seems the mass production dev kits have roughly the same dimensions that the firsts, only the color (and other things) have changed. And as they still don't feature a disc-drive + as they are tagged final so the components are stable now, it means the internal volume, the heat & cooling situation, are the same as in the first dev kits (with overheat problems, placeholder chips, etc.), but this time with the finished versions.

Pure speculation but it could means that even with those really optimized components (maybe smaller chips process, etc.) the coolings needs are such that the dev kits size hasn't decreased, therefore indicating positive info on the hardware capabilities. It could also be simply explained by a choice of Nintendo to keep the same type of boxes, materials (to save some fabrication costs), and just pimp it quickly to another color and that's all.

- The fact that these latest dev kits aren't incorporating a drive could means that another revision will launch after, certainly like the Wii green models, designed like the retail console, and with an optical drive this time. But as the recently arrived kits are tagged "mass production", these hypothetic following models certainly won't come with extensive hardware changes.

So, imagine, your so-much anticipated and dreamed titles, being burned right now on Wii U discs, and soon being brought at E3 to blow you away ! Let the hype embrace us !!!!
 
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