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Trailer The Witcher (Netflix)

Romulus

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Mar 21, 2019
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After hating episode 1, everything after has been much better. Very entertaining.
 

Geki-D

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Did anyone watch this with people who have no idea what the Witcher is beforehand? Like no experience with the games or books? Because I feel like there's some stuff in there that would be confusing as fuck to people who are new to the franchise. Like why Geralt's eyes change when he's fighting monsters or when he fights the Necrophages, I'm pretty sure the series never tells us they're just normal-ass monsters so I'd imagine people might think they were the dead coming back to life. I can't recall the moments off the top of my head but I remember thinking a few times that only my knowledge of the W3 allowed me to understand some stuff but if I didn't know from that, I'd be left to just assume because the show does a poor job of explaining stuff.

Add to that the timeline twist, and I can understand why some people might think the show is a load of incoherent bollocks.

Personally I liked the show but people saying it's the new GoT need to calm way the fuck down. I get that GoT began to seriously suck the last few seasons to a point where it was near cancer levels of bad but the beginning setup up a way more intricate, deep and interesting world that The Witcher.
 
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Arozay

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I just finished it, I liked it, I've only played the games and haven't read the books though.

Geralt and Yen were great, Cavil nailed the voice, mood and the fighting. Thought Yen was a bad cast at first, but she did great as the character, especially in the Geralt scenes. Hopefully Triss does the same once she has more presence.

Only complaints were was the script at times. The early bard episodes felt a bit like 90's Hercules (but so did some of the game side-quests). And some of the budget stuff in regards to set, costume (Nilfgaard & Yen), cgi/dragons, etc.

The timeline jumping was a bit jarring, but made sense, plus allowed the show to not slow to a crawl while establishing things. It helped that had pre-existing knowledge of the setting.
 
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GreyHorace

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Just realized why Jodhi May (who plays Queen Calanthe) was so familiar to me. She played one of the Munro sisters in 1992's The Last of the Mohicans, one of my favorite films.

 

Ogbert

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Feb 21, 2018
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It was OK.

Cavill carried it - he makes an excellent Geralt. Yennefer was awful.

They need to drop the timelines for season 2.
 

Renozokii

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Nov 4, 2019
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Are there any black people in the books? In the games? There is your answer. It's not that hard. Also, stop projecting your racism onto us for questioning forced diversity. That and your use of 'yall' gives you away. I'm pretty sure you are a SJW because they are the only people i see online using that word
Right, yall because I'm a sjw, not because I'm from the south. So blinded by weird hate that you forget millions of people have yall in their regular vocabulary.

>Are there any black people in the books? In the games?

Because I'm NOT a sjw, I see shades and not just black and white. I understand the book and games were made in areas where black people and other minorities are far less common and far less integrated. That's cool. The show however, was made in the US. Where the diversity isn't really just a topic of the month, it's a reality that execs, writers, and people live with. I fail to see the issue of having diversity in a show based on a book that is a far removed version of Europe from a different reality.

And frankly, please do tell book and page number where it contains anything even remotely resembling a declaration that no town, crowd, or area contains anything but whites. I'd love to educate myself.

>Also, stop projecting your racism onto us for questioning forced diversity.

Define forced diversity. Is it by executives, is by writers? Is anything based on any property that has even .01% more diversity forced? Is it forced diversity if they used whatever extras they got to make crowds look bigger and didn't have more signing up? Is it forced diversity if the author doesn't disagree or find any fault in the diversity? Feel free to elaborate in any way.

As far as me being racist goes, that's cute. I'm on the internet a lot, have a job that entails being around and talking to boat loads of people, and a decently sized circle of friends. I don't think I've ever met or seen a person caring about forced diversity unless the situation is just absurd. And as a matter of fact, I'm fairly certain you wouldn't share or communicate these feelings to anyone in real life.
 

Katsura

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Because I'm NOT a sjw, I see shades and not just black and white. I understand the book and games were made in areas where black people and other minorities are far less common and far less integrated.
Not just that but given it's based on folk lore from that area, there were zero black people
That's cool. The show however, was made in the US. Where the diversity isn't really just a topic of the month, it's a reality that execs, writers, and people live with. I fail to see the issue of having diversity in a show based on a book that is a far removed version of Europe from a different reality.
Because it's wildly disrespectful to the source material and to the country whose lore it was built upon that a group of liberal americans think they can go in and just change what ever doesn't fit with their narrative. These are the same people who would be rioting if they made Shaft white for example. It's almost always a one way street. Not that it would be ok to make Shaft white mind you. I'm against all types of race swapping, no matter which way it goes. Either respect the work or make your own original IP instead. Of course, these people are incapable of making compelling characters and stories on their own
And frankly, please do tell book and page number where it contains anything even remotely resembling a declaration that no town, crowd, or area contains anything but whites. I'd love to educate myself.
Yea, that's not how it works. We know there weren't black people in the country whose lore it's based on at the time and there is zero mention of anyone being black in the books. So the only logical conclusion is there are no black people in the Witcher. If you're going to claim otherwise, the burden of proof falls on you. Also, it's not just some extras. It's one of the main characters who has a very detailed established look
Define forced diversity. Is it by executives, is by writers? Is anything based on any property that has even .01% more diversity forced? Is it forced diversity if they used whatever extras they got to make crowds look bigger and didn't have more signing up? Is it forced diversity if the author doesn't disagree or find any fault in the diversity? Feel free to elaborate in any way.
Forced diversity is race swapping black people into roles that were written as white. I thought that much was clear from earlier posts but i guess not
As far as me being racist goes, that's cute. I'm on the internet a lot, have a job that entails being around and talking to boat loads of people, and a decently sized circle of friends. I don't think I've ever met or seen a person caring about forced diversity unless the situation is just absurd. And as a matter of fact, I'm fairly certain you wouldn't share or communicate these feelings to anyone in real life.
Anecdotal and completely irrelevant. Also, yes i absolutely communicate my feelings on this kind of subject outside of the internet. Not that it matters in in this context

Here is my counter anecdotal evidence - SJW always project. They always accuse other people of what they are guilty of themselves. So when someone like you tries to shut down a very legitimate discussion by implying people who are against black washing are racist, it's because you are in fact racist yourself. That's how SJW work so if you're not one then i'd suggest you stop acting like one
 
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Renozokii

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Not just that but given it's based on folk lore from that area, there were zero black people
So a Netflix adaptation of a book that basis it's basic premise off of folklore has to be diversely correct to the area where that folklore originated? That statement doesn't sound the least bit silly to you?

Because it's wildly disrespectful to the source material and to the country whose lore it was built upon that a group of liberal americans think they can go in and just change what ever doesn't fit with their narrative. These are the same people who would be rioting if they made Shaft white for example. It's almost always a one way street. Not that it would be ok to make Shaft white mind you. I'm against all types of race swapping, no matter which way it goes. Either respect the work or make your own original IP instead. Of course, these people are incapable of making compelling characters and stories on their own
It's funny that one of the stereotypes of American liberals is getting offended for other people, yet here you are getting offended for other people. Show me people of that culture getting offended. I know for a fact that author loves this adaptation. That's a pretty massive example to the contrary of what you are spewing. For your shaft example, A) Shafts premise is to literally be a black version of the mostly white movies that dominated at the time. I don't think witcher's premise is to be an all white version of already mostly white folklore B) Geralt and the vast majority of main and supporting characters are still white.. Your example is a mass exaggeration and helps show how weak your point.

You are against all race swapping? How does that even make sense? So if in an animated movie taking place in modern America, there was a crowd that happened to be all white, and they made a live action adaptation where some of the extras in that crowd were black, you are against that? Even if it's truer to life? Makes no sense. You are against modernizing works to the far more diverse reality of today? Stop making blanket statements like this because you know you do not hold true to that in any way, shape or form. You also keep, and I mean KEEP talking about respect. They have the writer of the books on record saying this is the definitive adaptation for him. So if the writer finds it respectful, the Polish don't give a fuck, and the vast majority of audiences don't care, couldn't it be argued that by going against their perspective, you are the disrespectful one?

Yea, that's not how it works. We know there weren't black people in the country whose lore it's based on at the time and there is zero mention of anyone being black in the books. So the only logical conclusion is there are no black people in the Witcher. If you're going to claim otherwise, the burden of proof falls on you. Also, it's not just some extras. It's one of the main characters who has a very detailed established look
Again, talking about a show based on a book, based on folklore. You are trying to make the fictional world the witcher a lot more connected to ours than it really is. It is not based in Europe, it is not based on our people, and it is not based on our Earth. The burden of proof is on me? There is no where in the books that states all the humans in this world are white. There are also countless characters whose description does not directly disclose race. That is my proof. Now you. I can only guess you are talking about triss for which main character, triss appearing in the show for a grand total of roughly 10 minutes, hardly making her a main character.

Forced diversity is race swapping black people into roles that were written as white. I thought that much was clear from earlier posts but i guess not
What makes it forced, Considering the writer is on board with the show, and we have seen plenty of Netflix originals with a lack of what you consider forced, I'm trying to understand the forced part you keep referring to. Please elaborate. Race swapping black people into roles that were written as white is called.. race swapping. I'm trying to learn what exactly you define as forced difference.

Anecdotal and completely irrelevant. Also, yes i absolutely communicate my feelings on this kind of subject outside of the internet. Not that it matters in in this context
It's not really anecdotal. Outside a select few forums including this one, you would have to show me proof people care. Polish people don't seem to care. Audience scores on the major sites suggests people don't care. The author doesn't care. Actually he loves the show. And the show is one of the most viewed of the year. So please, numbers on how many people actually care?

Here is my counter anecdotal evidence - SJW always project. They always accuse other people of what they are guilty of themselves. So when someone like you tries to shut down a very legitimate discussion by implying people who are against black washing are racist, it's because you are in fact racist yourself. That's how SJW work so if you're not one then i'd suggest you stop acting like one
SJWs always project.. Well considering I am literally not a sjw, I know that, that leaves one of us to project. You are desperately trying to accuse me of being something. You have no real proof aside from me not particularly caring about this one show race swapping. I called out a stupid comment in a stupid thread. You have a real, real problem with black actors being cast in this show taking place in a purely fictional world, casting which the author himself, and the origin culture don't mind. I see literally no other conclusion to draw from that than you being a racist. The exact people that have a definitive right to declarations on the overarching Witcher ip, are of the opposite opinion of you. So your argument can only boil down to you personally not liking seeing black people in the show where there could be more white people.

Sapkowski revealed that although he wasn’t involved in the production of the Netflix series, he was paid “very well” to be a consultant and was always amazed by what he saw in the trailers and images from the set. Unlike some fans, Sapkowski doesn’t visualize any of the characters he’s created and, as a result, has no opinion on how the characters should appear on screen.


That article has two sources with direct opinions from the author himself.

And can I just say, as someone who could seriously care less about internet politics nowadays, I forget there are people that still really try to give the term sjw so much people. In a life of so many different people and perspectives, grouping someone who ultimately just doesn't care about The Witcher Netflix show having slightly more diversity than the books under an umbrella term that contains people that think shit like America is evil, whites need to go, white culture is trash, is so immature and frankly, fucking stupid. Stop trying to force that word on me so hard as if I give a shit about some random dude on Neogaf thinking I'm a sjw. I'll have a discussion all day though I enjoy it. But that term just makes it so hard to take you seriously.
 

Renozokii

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Nov 4, 2019
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Slightly over the top don’t you think. It’s part of the critique, because it stands out.

The use of ‘its racist’ is a shield for protecting woke ideology. I don’t have a racist bone in my body, but are rational. If I watch Hidden Dragon, Crouching Tiger, a fantasy set in ancient China, I don’t expect to see random Mexicans around the cast. The Witcher being set in mediaeval Europe should respect it’s setting for sakes of coherence.

Looking forward to Ghosts of Tsushima by Sony. If that game set in feudal Japan ends up having diverse characters without a rational plot explanation it will be diluted and come of as stupid. Will it get criticised for its lack of diversity or does the hate only apply when the heritage is white? Rhetorical question.
>The use of ‘its racist’ is a shield for protecting woke ideology.

This sentence alone is borderline pathetic and gives away so much about you. Woke ideology doesn't need protection. There are extremists pushing the term beyond realistic means and trying to do bad with it under the guise of being woke. However, being "woke" which essentially means caring about the problems of others and being more aware of the issues of the modern world, isn't a concept that needs protecting. Racism is racism, and in this thread the people that find issue with casting the author doesn't agree with, looking past the hilarious excuses you see sad racist children.

>If I watch Hidden Dragon, Crouching Tiger, a fantasy set in ancient China, I don’t expect to see random Mexicans around the cast. The Witcher being set in mediaeval Europe should respect it’s setting for sakes of coherence.

Witcher doesn't take place in Europe dumbass. It's a fictional world where humans got spit out in a random land.

>Looking forward to Ghosts of Tsushima by Sony. If that game set in feudal Japan ends up having diverse characters without a rational plot explanation it will be diluted and come of as stupid. Will it get criticised for its lack of diversity or does the hate only apply when the heritage is white? Rhetorical question.

Game takes place in a non fiction land during a non fiction event. Kind of different from the purely fictional world of the witcher, no?
 

-Arcadia-

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Aug 20, 2019
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Finished it.

I maintain my opinion of a fantastic first episode, but the rest of the season being kind of a slog.

I think there’s some great elements here, not the least of which being Henry Cavill as Geralt, but the show as a whole needs serious work. There’s a lot of sparks of potential here, which is why I kept watching, so it’s going to be interesting to see if a Season 2 can bring that to bear.

A big target area would be the writer’s room; I genuinely think the only good writer on the team is the showrunner behind the first and last episodes.

This is a bit of a tangent, but it’s also just kind of weird with the constant hamfisting of representation into known roles, and everywhere, in every scene. It looks like what it is, an on-screen diversity quota, rather than naturally casting actors in those roles.

I feel like this show, outside of a few moments, didn’t really get obnoxiously ‘woke’, but its production was definitely informed by that ideology.
 

Katsura

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So a Netflix adaptation of a book that basis it's basic premise off of folklore has to be diversely correct to the area where that folklore originated? That statement doesn't sound the least bit silly to you?
That's not what i said. Nice straw man though. Now try to address what was being said
It's funny that one of the stereotypes of American liberals is getting offended for other people, yet here you are getting offended for other people.
I am? You could have fooled me. It's called discussing something. Getting offended would imply anger which would lead to emotional reactions such as labelling people racist in lack of actual arguments. Oh wait, that was you wasn't it?
Show me people of that culture getting offended.
Why? Not that they're hard to find but it's completely irrelevant. Stay on topic. You're flailing
I know for a fact that author loves this adaptation. That's a pretty massive example to the contrary of what you are spewing.
Previously relatively unknown author gets a shit ton of money has no issue with the source of his newfound wealth. I'm shocked!
For your shaft example, A) Shafts premise is to literally be a black version of the mostly white movies that dominated at the time. I don't think witcher's premise is to be an all white version of already mostly white folklore B) Geralt and the vast majority of main and supporting characters are still white.. Your example is a mass exaggeration and helps show how weak your point.
If my point is weak why can't you argue against it? You're flailing all over the place with all kind of irrelevant nonsense. Smoke and mirrors. So not Shaft, Black Panther then. Now go ahead and try that one. The vast majority of main characters are still white? So what? All of them should be white because that's established lore
You are against all race swapping? How does that even make sense?
Because i'm not racist and have integrity?
So if in an animated movie taking place in modern America, there was a crowd that happened to be all white, and they made a live action adaptation where some of the extras in that crowd were black, you are against that?
How is that in any way comparable to changing a main character? I know you SJW take everything literally but please do try to understand the concept of context. It's important
You are against modernizing works to the far more diverse reality of today? Stop making blanket statements like this because you know you do not hold true to that in any way, shape or form.
Of course i am. As for the hold true part, talk about blanket statements. Was there a point you forgot to put in there somewhere?
You also keep, and I mean KEEP talking about respect. They have the writer of the books on record saying this is the definitive adaptation for him. So if the writer finds it respectful, the Polish don't give a fuck, and the vast majority of audiences don't care, couldn't it be argued that by going against their perspective, you are the disrespectful one?
CAPSLOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL! I've already addressed the writer. As for the rest - the Polish people don't give a fuck, i'm gonna need a citation on that one because you pulled that out of your ass. Same with the audience, which is also completely irrelevant in this context by the way. See? Context is important
Again, talking about a show based on a book, based on folklore. You are trying to make the fictional world the witcher a lot more connected to ours than it really is. It is not based in Europe, it is not based on our people, and it is not based on our Earth.
It's not? What are the people based on then? Do you know the origin of the monsters he fights? I think not because then you'd realise how utterly ignorant that statement is
The burden of proof is on me? There is no where in the books that states all the humans in this world are white.
That's not how proof works skippy. You have to do better. You have to specifically find people described as black. If you can't do that, you're wrong. Spoiler - You're wrong
There are also countless characters whose description does not directly disclose race. That is my proof.
So your argument boils down to that because not every single person inhabiting the world has been described in detail it's ok to change a major character to be black rather than white? That's the dumbest thing i've read in months. Holy crap
Now you. I can only guess you are talking about triss for which main character, triss appearing in the show for a grand total of roughly 10 minutes, hardly making her a main character.
Triss is not a main character in the lore? Ok then. It is kinda fun watching the mental gymnastics you're willing to go through to justify this nonsense. In a sad way though
What makes it forced, Considering the writer is on board with the show, and we have seen plenty of Netflix originals with a lack of what you consider forced, I'm trying to understand the forced part you keep referring to. Please elaborate. Race swapping black people into roles that were written as white is called.. race swapping. I'm trying to learn what exactly you define as forced difference.
Race swapping black people into lore that's clearly only white = force diversity. I'm not sure how much more i can simplify
It's not really anecdotal. Outside a select few forums including this one, you would have to show me proof people care.
>It's not really anecdotal
>proceeds to post anecdotal nonsense
Now you're doing my job for me. Stop it
Polish people don't seem to care
Citation needed
Audience scores on the major sites suggests people don't care.
Argumentum ad populum
The author doesn't care. Actually he loves the show. And the show is one of the most viewed of the year. So please, numbers on how many people actually care?
Already addressed. You do know that repeating nonsense wont make it magically become correct, right?
SJWs always project.. Well considering I am literally not a sjw, I know that, that leaves one of us to project. You are desperately trying to accuse me of being something. You have no real proof aside from me not particularly caring about this one show race swapping. I called out a stupid comment in a stupid thread. You have a real, real problem with black actors being cast in this show taking place in a purely fictional world, casting which the author himself, and the origin culture don't mind. I see literally no other conclusion to draw from that than you being a racist. The exact people that have a definitive right to declarations on the overarching Witcher ip, are of the opposite opinion of you. So your argument can only boil down to you personally not liking seeing black people in the show where there could be more white people.
>I'm not a SJW
>But you're racist for not accepting my liberal moronic agenda being pushed into your popular culture
Ok, sure fam
Sapkowski revealed that although he wasn’t involved in the production of the Netflix series, he was paid “very well” to be a consultant and was always amazed by what he saw in the trailers and images from the set. Unlike some fans, Sapkowski doesn’t visualize any of the characters he’s created and, as a result, has no opinion on how the characters should appear on screen.
Huh, then who described how the people looked in the books? Did he not write those passages himself?
And can I just say, as someone who could seriously care less about internet politics nowadays, I forget there are people that still really try to give the term sjw so much people.
First of all, it's couldn't. You didn't write what you meant to write. Second, what the actual fuck did you write? It reads like something straight out of google translate
In a life of so many different people and perspectives, grouping someone who ultimately just doesn't care about The Witcher Netflix show having slightly more diversity than the books under an umbrella term that contains people that think shit like America is evil, whites need to go, white culture is trash, is so immature and frankly, fucking stupid. Stop trying to force that word on me so hard as if I give a shit about some random dude on Neogaf thinking I'm a sjw. I'll have a discussion all day though I enjoy it. But that term just makes it so hard to take you seriously.
>I totally don't care
>but i'll keep responding
like pottery

You do care, that's why you respond. Also, i really couldn't (see?) give a rats ass if you 'take me seriously'. Maybe you're not a SJW but you sure do act like one. Labelling people racist despite them having said nothing racist? Check. Fallacies, fallacies everywhere? Check. Incapable of arguing the actual point using sound logic? Check. So i will repeat my advice from the previous post - If you dislike being called a SJW, then stop acting like one
 
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Shmunter

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Aug 25, 2018
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>The use of ‘its racist’ is a shield for protecting woke ideology.

This sentence alone is borderline pathetic and gives away so much about you. Woke ideology doesn't need protection. There are extremists pushing the term beyond realistic means and trying to do bad with it under the guise of being woke. However, being "woke" which essentially means caring about the problems of others and being more aware of the issues of the modern world, isn't a concept that needs protecting. Racism is racism, and in this thread the people that find issue with casting the author doesn't agree with, looking past the hilarious excuses you see sad racist children.

>If I watch Hidden Dragon, Crouching Tiger, a fantasy set in ancient China, I don’t expect to see random Mexicans around the cast. The Witcher being set in mediaeval Europe should respect it’s setting for sakes of coherence.

Witcher doesn't take place in Europe dumbass. It's a fictional world where humans got spit out in a random land.

>Looking forward to Ghosts of Tsushima by Sony. If that game set in feudal Japan ends up having diverse characters without a rational plot explanation it will be diluted and come of as stupid. Will it get criticised for its lack of diversity or does the hate only apply when the heritage is white? Rhetorical question.

Game takes place in a non fiction land during a non fiction event. Kind of different from the purely fictional world of the witcher, no?
I can see you’re very woke and caring for others, after all you just labeled me racist, called me a dumbass, and had a deranged rant all because I disagree.

For proving my point so eloquently I’d give you a medal, if you had a chest to pin it on.
 
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Renozokii

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Nov 4, 2019
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>That's not what i said. Nice straw man though. Now try to address what was being said

You are saying because the area the folklore is from, that the book is based on, that the show is based on doesn't have black people, that a show based on a book based on folklore shouldn't contain black people. Which part of that am I misunderstanding? Keep throwing in buzzwords like strawman in too, really makes your argument seem more legit.

>I am? You could have fooled me. It's called discussing something. Getting offended would imply anger which would lead to emotional reactions such as labelling people racist in lack of actual arguments. Oh wait, that was you wasn't it?

You are taking the liberty of saying what is and isn't respectful to a group of people you aren't affiliated with in any direct way. Would it make you feel better if I say you are getting disrespected for them instead? I presented no actual arguments? Like the opinion of the author himself(kind of a big one if you ask me), or pointing out various flaws in what you are saying? Damn that's crazy.

>Why? Not that they're hard to find but it's completely irrelevant. Stay on topic. You're flailing

Was I the one claiming it disrespected their folklore or culture? I'm saying the contrary and that at large, Polish people don't care. You do not speak for the polish, therefore projecting your distaste of having the grueling image of black people in a netflix show on an entire ethnicity of people by claiming its disrespectful is, well it's projecting. Show me credible and/or respected sources of polish people giving a shit in any major way because you are the one claiming it means something to their culture. It's not very complex.

>Previously relatively unknown author gets a shit ton of money has no issue with the source of his newfound wealth. I'm shocked!

Considering I know for a fact you have 0 proof on how much he got paid by netflix, how much he had before from the books, or how known he is now or was prior, this is a dead point. It also means nothing either way. He either has an opinion or doesn't. In this case he has made his opinion known and no amount of theory crafting will change the opinion he's made public.

>If my point is weak why can't you argue against it? You're flailing all over the place with all kind of irrelevant nonsense. Smoke and mirrors. So not Shaft, Black Panther then. Now go ahead and try that one. The vast majority of main characters are still white? So what? All of them should be white because that's established lore

I mean I'm not exactly sure how any kind of discussion can happen if I do in fact argue against things, and then you just claim I didn't. And you've now named 2 examples, both literally made as a counter to white dominated forms of entertainment to give black actors, writers, and directors opportunities in hollywood. Beyond that, you understand black characters and other races were race swapped for a very long time, right? Try black panther? Sure it's pretty fucking easy. Wakanda is fictional, but it is literally in Africa. The difference here being, witcher isn't set in Europe. It's set in a completely made up place. Pretty easy.

>Because i'm not racist and have integrity?

Inserting diversity in updates to old works from time periods known for widespread racism and xenophobia because we live in a society that is trying to be more inclusive and progressive, thus giving minority actors and actresses more opportunities for work based on skill rather than skin color is racist? Sure funny boy. Integrity? The author doesn't have integrity then? Based on a conspiracy theory about money making him have a nicer opinion? You have integrity for speaking for an ethnicity that you have yet to prove agrees with you?


>CAPSLOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL! I've already addressed the writer. As for the rest - the Polish people don't give a fuck, i'm gonna need a citation on that one because you pulled that out of your ass. Same with the audience, which is also completely irrelevant in this context by the way. See? Context is important

You use caps lock for 4 letters? Idk my fingers have enough strength to hold the shift button for those 2 seconds, so I didn't feel the need to press caps lock.
You addressed the writer with a theory. I have direct quotes. You don't get to decide what the writers inner feelings are unfortunately. You need a citation for a lack of Polish people caring about this topic? You are claiming things about them, I'm claiming there's nothing. If I went on about how throwing away spare pizza is disrespectful to italian people, and you said that's stupid, which one of us would need to back up what we said to not look like an idiot? The audience, the author and the Polish are irrelevant, you stand as the stole protector of this folklores honor!

>It's not? What are the people based on then? Do you know the origin of the monsters he fights? I think not because then you'd realise how utterly ignorant that statement is

I'm just going to write a factual statement here. It's a show, based on a book, which is set an entirely fictional universe which draws inspiration from Polish folklore. None of this means black people aren't allowed in future adaptations of this universe done by places wherein diversity is commonplace. If you disagree with this, explain why and how.


>That's not how proof works skippy. You have to do better. You have to specifically find people described as black. If you can't do that, you're wrong. Spoiler - You're wrong

I'm stating there is 0 reason to believe the author had any intention of the entire crew and world being all white, just did it because that's all he knew. And the author happens to agree with that. Therefore there is no problem with the show having more diversity. If the author came out and said there should be no black people because he envisioned it as a purely early European world, you'd have a point. But he didn't, so tough. Furthermore, unless the book describes every crowd and group of people as purely white, you have 0 basis to argue that the author envisioned some diversity in those crowds while writing. Unless the author claims otherwise, you are simply saying things for him that he may or may not agree with, with no proof backing you up.

>Triss is not a main character in the lore? Ok then. It is kinda fun watching the mental gymnastics you're willing to go through to justify this nonsense. In a sad way though

Are we talking about the show or not? In the show she is by no definition of main character, a main character.

>Race swapping black people into lore that's clearly only white = force diversity. I'm not sure how much more i can simplify

I'm asking a simple question you keep dodging. You are giving examples of race swapping. I'm asking what, in your ever open minded and obviously not racist opinion, makes it forced as opposed to the natural result of progression in society? I'd agree if it were a game set in Europe during a time period before there were black people. But it's not, it's a fictional world.


>It's not really anecdotal
>proceeds to post anecdotal nonsense
Now you're doing my job for me. Stop it


Definition of anecdotal - (of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.

I have provided the authors own words, you are more than capable of checking metacritic for the audience scores (7.7), and you've yet to provide any evidence of the disrespect you keep claiming the polish feel. Show me a link or two bud.

>Citation needed

I mean I can't do much more than just not find any Polish people caring

As a matter of fact, they seem to actually support it.

>Argumentum ad populum

I've used more than just that as proof and examples. I'm waiting on any proof from your end. Any.

>Already addressed. You do know that repeating nonsense wont make it magically become correct, right?

Posting the authors own words doesn't make it correct. But your theory on why he "actually" said those things is automatically correct. Of course ;)


>I'm not a SJW
>But you're racist for not accepting my liberal moronic agenda being pushed into your popular culture
Ok, sure fam

You have incorrectly spoken for what the polish think with 0 proof, insinuated the author lied publicly because of money with 0 proof, and are part of any extremely small vocal minority whose point boils down to not being happy with the diversity in a netflix show. You are right, you most definitely aren't a racist, just someone super passionate about keeping diversity out of a fictional show, more passionate than the author of the books the show is adapted from himself! That passion is definitely not thinly veiled racism! Nope!

>Huh, then who described how the people looked in the books? Did he not write those passages himself?

Those are the authors words. His words are the only bit of proof provided in this entire little debate. If you disagree, feel free to take it up with him!

>First of all, it's couldn't. You didn't write what you meant to write. Second, what the actual fuck did you write? It reads like something straight out of google translate

People should be power at that last part of my comment. Funny though that your first two sentences about calling out a wrong word I typed make no sense. "It's couldn't"


>I totally don't care
>but i'll keep responding
like pottery

>You do care, that's why you respond. Also, i really couldn't (see?) give a rats ass if you 'take me seriously'. Maybe you're not a SJW but you sure do act like one. Labelling people racist despite them having said nothing racist? Check. Fallacies, fallacies everywhere? Check. Incapable of arguing the actual point using sound logic? Check. So i will repeat my advice from the previous post - If you dislike being called a SJW, then stop acting like one

I flat out said I enjoy a good debate. I'm confused about why you keep using a term that damn doesn't apply to me and is fucking cringey.

I haven't argued anything or well? I've provided proof, which is one sided. I haven't made a single claim I can't back up. Audiances at large enjoying the show is a fact. I have provided the authors thoughts on this. And I gave you a handy link that saves you the trouble of googling something, which shows a lack of Polish people caring about this, and actually shows some polish fans retaliating against the hate. You are a typical diversity hating neckbeard. You are mad that your white only fiction got diversified by a US based studio. You don't care if Polish that got race swapped don't mind. You don't care that the author doesn't mind. You don't care that audiences at large don't mind. Those are literally things I can prove. If you don't care about the opinion of the writer of the original books, the opinion majority of the people consuming the content, or the opinion of the people from where the folklore comes from, than what proof or otherwise would you like me to try and provide?
 

Renozokii

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I can see you’re very woke and caring for others, after all you just labeled me racist, called me a dumbass, and had a deranged rant all because I disagree.

For proving my point so eloquently I’d give you a medal, if you had a chest to pin it on.

I'm in a thread of people genuinely upset by diversity in a tv show based on a book based on folklore from Poland. These people don't care about the fact that neither the author nor the Polish agree with their distaste for the black casting. Therefore, the problem lies solely in the diversity. Bunch of closet racists coming up with elaborate reasons why they aren't that. If the author or a large number of Polish people came out and said they are against the casting, you all would have leg to stand on and I'd say not a word. But that's not the case, instead you are crying about black people in your ideal all white fictional word being wrong inside a pathetic echo chamber.
 
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Katsura

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I'm in a thread of people genuinely upset by diversity in a tv show based on a book based on folklore from Poland. These people don't care about the fact that neither the author nor the Polish agree with their distaste for the black casting. Therefore, the problem lies solely in the diversity. Bunch of closet racists coming up with elaborate reasons why they aren't that. If the author or a large number of Polish people came out and said they are against the casting, you all would have leg to stand on and I'd say not a word. But that's not the case, instead you are crying about black people in your ideal all white fictional word being wrong inside a pathetic echo chamber.
Yup, totally not a SJW, guys. Totally here for an honest debate but i'll call you racist if you disagree with my fallacious arguments :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Honestly though, i'm glad you made this post because i was going to reply to your wall of nonsense but seeing how you keep labelling people racist tells me exactly who you are. You are, without a doubt, a SJW. You're not fooling anyone

Also, the Polish do care. Metacritic user score does not prove they don't as you seem to think. I'd explain what a non sequitur is but i'm afraid you wouldn't understand it anyway since the concept of appeal to popularity and authority is lost on you
 
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Grinchy

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I finished the season today and liked the show a ton. Maybe the episode with the dwarves was cheap looking and felt like filler for too much of it, but I'd have to really find nitpicks to complain about.

I never found any of the timeline stuff confusing, probably because I watched with subtitles on. And maybe the show felt even better than it should have because I watched it right after The Mandalorian with its horrible writing in a lot of episodes. It would be like watching Friends and then switching to Seinfeld. Whatever the case, I'm really excited for season 2.
 
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Renozokii

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Yup, totally not a SJW, guys. Totally here for an honest debate but i'll call you racist if you disagree with my fallacious arguments :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Honestly though, i'm glad you made this post because i was going to reply to your wall of nonsense but seeing how you keep labelling people racist tells me exactly who you are. You are, without a doubt, a SJW. You're not fooling anyone

Also, the Polish do care. Metacritic user score does not prove they don't as you seem to think. I'd explain what a non sequitur is but i'm afraid you wouldn't understand it anyway since the concept of appeal to popularity and authority is lost on you

So to summarize:

You don't like diversity in the tv show adaptation of The Witcher because in the books there was none.

One of your major reasons for this was that it is disrespectful to the Polish people, whose folkflore the books are based on. When asked to show any significant amount of Polish people that feel this way, you haven't, because you cant. However, there are a couple examples to the contrary. Instead of finding any evidence to support your biggest claim, the disrespect, you just keep talking as if you speak for the entire Polish ethnicity and culture.

You insistently asked proof, and then when given the authors literal own thoughts, you waved it away because he got paid for his ip. There are 30 years between the first witcher book and the show. If he's just lying now, show me literally anything from his past 30 years living as the author of The Witcher to support you.

So again, you aren't racist, you are just far more passionate about keeping the world of the witcher all white than the creator and the people whose folklore was used. Not racist though.
 

Katsura

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So to summarize:

You don't like diversity in the tv show adaptation of The Witcher because in the books there was none.

One of your major reasons for this was that it is disrespectful to the Polish people, whose folkflore the books are based on. When asked to show any significant amount of Polish people that feel this way, you haven't, because you cant. However, there are a couple examples to the contrary. Instead of finding any evidence to support your biggest claim, the disrespect, you just keep talking as if you speak for the entire Polish ethnicity and culture.

You insistently asked proof, and then when given the authors literal own thoughts, you waved it away because he got paid for his ip. There are 30 years between the first witcher book and the show. If he's just lying now, show me literally anything from his past 30 years living as the author of The Witcher to support you.

So again, you aren't racist, you are just far more passionate about keeping the world of the witcher all white than the creator and the people whose folklore was used. Not racist though.
>Oh no, someone disagrees with me
>Quick - throw out straw men and racist labels
Sure Mr. Totally not a SJW :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Looking forward to your next reply with lots of fallacies and reassurance that you totally don't care and you're totally not a SJW. Y'all just racist and shit :messenger_ok:
 
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Renozokii

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>Oh no, someone disagrees with me
>Quick - throw out straw men and racist labels
Sure Mr. Totally not a SJW :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Looking forward to your next reply with lots of fallacies and reassurance that you totally don't care and you're totally not an alt-leftie
You aren't just disagreeing though bud. You are disagreeing with diversity in spite of the people it's supposedly disrespecting not being disrespected, and the author having no issue with it. You are making massive leaps in logic to come up with why your point is legit, while not backing up a single thing you've claimed. Show some citations there, some links. I'll wait 😊
 
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Katsura

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You aren't just disagreeing though bud. You are disagreeing with diversity in spite of the people it's supposedly disrespecting not being disrespected, and the author having no issue with it. You are making massive leaps in logic to come up with why your point is legit, while not backing up a single thing you've claimed. Show some citations there, some links. I'll wait 😊
Nah man, we're well past that point. You'd first have to demonstrate the intellectual capacity to argue a point without using fallacies. Oh and without calling people racist constantly
 

Renozokii

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Nah man, we're well past that point. You'd first have to demonstrate the intellectual capacity to argue a point without using fallacies. Oh and without calling people racist constantly
"Aw man I got called out on spouting baseless bullshit, have no sources, and have no real point to my argument if the author doesn't agree with me.. Bazinga! I'll just throw in a buzzword or two, pretend I'm upset he called me a racist even though I typed the letters sjw no less than 15 times, and act like I'm above responding!"
 

Katsura

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"Aw man I got called out on spouting baseless bullshit, have no sources, and have no real point to my argument if the author doesn't agree with me.. Bazinga! I'll just throw in a buzzword or two, pretend I'm upset he called me a racist even though I typed the letters sjw no less than 15 times, and act like I'm above responding!"
You repeating the same fallacy while trying to be clever is high level irony :messenger_tears_of_joy:
It's like playing chess with a pigeon
 
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I greatly enjoyed the games and the books, but only two episodes in and I'm kinda 'eh'. Not a fan of the casting (Cavill is mostly fine), set pieces or effects. Quite disappointed, really. =/
 

Kadayi

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You repeating the same fallacy while trying to be clever is high level irony :messenger_tears_of_joy:
It's like playing chess with a pigeon
I'm amused at this conceit that you're some grandmaster debater there Katsura. From what I can tell your entire repertoire consists of wall-o-text quote-a-thons of 'so you're saying' Cathy Newman level misinterpretations wherein eventually people just tune out because they have better things to do with their time.

I can't say I'm a big fan of diversity for the sake of it in TV series/films, but at the same time, if it was a necessary concession to get the show greenlit and made then fine, I can abide it, because I'd rather have a show than not. Ultimately though it is a fantasy series and it's not set in Medieval Europe and it's not tapping into Polish myths and Legends as if Geralt was the equivalent of a Finn Mac Cool in the Fenian cycle, versus using a few mythic monsters that pop up here and here and there. This notion of some inviolable sanctity having been shattered because there are a few actors in it with a tad more melatonin than you're comfortable with seeing on screen doesn't necessarily make you a racist but it certainly points toward a certain close-mindedness in terms of what you will watch as well as your inability to just suspend disbelief and roll with it.
 
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Katsura

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I'm amused at this conceit that you're some grandmaster debater there Katsura. From what I can tell your entire repertoire consists of wall-o-text quote-a-thons of 'so you're saying' Cathy Newman level misinterpretations wherein eventually people just tune out because they have better things to do with their time.

I can't say I'm a big fan of diversity for the sake of it in TV series/films, but at the same time, if it was a necessary concession to get the show greenlit and made then fine, I can abide it, because I'd rather have a show than not. Ultimately though it is a fantasy series and it's not set in Medieval Europe and it's not tapping into Polish myths and Legends as if Geralt was the equivalent of a Finn Mac Cool in the Fenian cycle, versus using a few mythic monsters that pop up here and here and there. This notion of some inviolable sanctity having been shattered because there are a few actors in it with a tad more melatonin than you're comfortable with seeing on screen doesn't necessarily make you a racist but it certainly points toward a certain close-mindedness in terms of what you will watch as well as your inability to just suspend disbelief and roll with it.
Who asked you? What makes you think i've actually been debating here? As for your take, good for you? I don't want to 'roll with it'. We've been doing that and it's only gotten worse over the years. So for you to suggest that indicates that you're either lying or incredibly ignorant of what's been happening in pop culture. My guess is you're a liar and i'm still wondering why you decided to jump in with your unwanted and really uninteresting take which by the way is just another ad hominem albeit longer winded than the other guy. Next time, just post 'you're racist' and be done with it
 
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Katsura

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It's really is just a genius way to get out of actually sourcing anything you've said. Just keep saying fallacy.
No, it's not. You think you have made valid points but you have not. That's the thing - your 'points', and i'm using the term lightly here, are based on flawed logic and therefore not worth addressing. It's appeal to popularity, appeal to authority and ad hominem. So by all means, go on thinking you've won. That's where the chess with a pigeon part comes in
 

Katsura

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I wouldn't bother. He is just a slightly more eloquent version of the 'oh i'm totally not a SJW but...' guy. Notice how his reply to me was disguised as an actual argument yet boiled down to 'you're not racist but close minded and uncomfortable with black people on screen'? It's just a longer version of 'you're racist'. That's all they have - assumptions based on projections
 
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Kadayi

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Who asked you? What makes you think i've actually been debating here? As for your take, good for you? I don't want to 'roll with it'. We've been doing that and it's only gotten worse over the years. So for you to suggest that indicates that you're either lying or incredibly ignorant of what's been happening in pop culture. My guess is you're a liar and i'm still wondering why you decided to jump in with your unwanted and really uninteresting take which by the way is just another ad hominem albeit longer winded than the other guy. Next time, just post 'you're racist' and be done with it
See the fundamental problem here is you're thinking you're fighting some sort of necessary crusade here against Wokeness creeping into your media, but the reality is unlike say the whole Kingdom Come Deliverance situation (an actual historical game) the world of The Witcher is a work of complete fiction set in a fictional universe distinct from our own. So none of these presented arguments against people of colour being in it carries any water, and unfortunately, they do sadly come across as pretty narrow-minded in a 'Whites only in my Fantasy thank you very much' kind of way.

Netflix, they're a global company, they want to appeal to as broad a range of people as possible, and as it's a fantasy setting versus a historical one I just don't think it's a particularly worthwhile venture to start getting irate about, least of all over several posts in this thread. There were different ways to go with implementing POC in the show. They could have made all the elves POC, but then given there's the whole cleansing storyline, I'm not sure that would have sent the right message. Similarly, they could have made Nilfguard all POC, but again that wouldn't have necessarily sat that well. As was it might have felt a little off to see the odd POC here and there, but in truth, they were few and far between.




Back under your Bridge

Anyone who disagrees with me is a clearly SJW
Considering I got banned from GAF back in the day for defending Daniel Vavra here when he was getting savaged by the press for not kowtowing to the SJWs with KCD, I find your statements about me in the absence of any actual reasoned counter-arguments pretty juvenile tbh.
 
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Vawn

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So to summarize:

You don't like diversity in the tv show adaptation of The Witcher because in the books there was none.

One of your major reasons for this was that it is disrespectful to the Polish people, whose folkflore the books are based on. When asked to show any significant amount of Polish people that feel this way, you haven't, because you cant. However, there are a couple examples to the contrary. Instead of finding any evidence to support your biggest claim, the disrespect, you just keep talking as if you speak for the entire Polish ethnicity and culture.

You insistently asked proof, and then when given the authors literal own thoughts, you waved it away because he got paid for his ip. There are 30 years between the first witcher book and the show. If he's just lying now, show me literally anything from his past 30 years living as the author of The Witcher to support you.

So again, you aren't racist, you are just far more passionate about keeping the world of the witcher all white than the creator and the people whose folklore was used. Not racist though.
You really do sound like a ResetEra poster.... Not being a fan of forced diversity does not make one racist.

Playing the race card to try and win an argument is incredibly lame.
 
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Renozokii

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No, it's not. You think you have made valid points but you have not. That's the thing - your 'points', and i'm using the term lightly here, are based on flawed logic and therefore not worth addressing. It's appeal to popularity, appeal to authority and ad hominem. So by all means, go on thinking you've won. That's where the chess with a pigeon part comes in
You did make a debate, you wrote things to explain your perspective and you made many, and I mean many claims with 0 evidence or proof. Not a single link or example that backs up many of the points you make.

Your entire argument comes down to a couple things

*The Netflix adaptation of a book loosely based on Polish folklore, disrespects that Polish folklore by including black people because there weren't black people in Poland at that time.

That was an actual point of yours. To back that up in any way, you just need to show any large notion of Polish people feeling their folklore was disrespected by the inclusion of black actors in The Witcher. Since you obviously don't speak for the entire population of Poland in any capacity, you are in fact, a random not Polish not living in Poland guy on Neogaf, just typing that it is disrespectful to Polish people isn't enough.

*Because the book does not have black people, they do not and should not exist in the Witcher universe.

I am simply asking you to explain why you feel this way. Why are black actors not allowed to star in a US adaptation of a Polish book, when the author and no large number of Polish people care, and some actively support? What makes you the definitive judge in this context? Why are you entirely ignoring the fact that while the setting of The Witcher may have real life influences, it does in fact take place in a purely fictional world?

*All race swapping is bad

That's just a stupid point. It's a blanket statement that a literal infinite number of situations would disprove. Diversifying adaptations of content not about race, and making them more modern is inherently bad? If they remake content that was white washed by hollywood, correcting the white washing would be inherently bad?

As for the racist stuff, I call you a racist because you have no real points or arguments that don't boil down to not wanting black people in Witcher for personal reasons. The most definitive person who has a say doesn't mind it, and actually speaks very positively about the diversity. That is the author of the actual books. You have not provided any tangible evidence of the author ever thinking otherwise. You have not provided anything about the Polish feeling disrespected. You are projecting unto other people, and what you are projecting is bias against diversity.

And for me being a sjw, calling out an idiot does not make one an sjw. I am an adult that through life and working around a lot of people, has actually empathy towards people of a different race. I know the diversity in the witcher made a lot of people really happy. I know for a fact, outside of a tiny minority on this here internet, that it has not upset anyone. Especially not those that matter. And I'm calling it out. If I did digging and found the author really wanted the setting of The Witcher to accurately show Europe during this time period if the monsters and magic actually existed, I would admit I'm completely wrong and the diversity was a bad decision.
 

Renozokii

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You really do sound like a ResetEra poster.... Not being a fan of forced diversity does not make one racist.

Playing the race card to try and win an argument is incredibly lame.
You all keep using the term forced diversity and yet not a single person has explained what about a show taking place in a fictional world, made in a very diverse country, being somewhat diverse makes the diversity forced as opposed to natural. I didn't just play the race card and cherry picking just that part of my comments when I consistently asked for any proof whatsoever for anything he said, is a joke. A person fighting the inclusion of blacks in a fictional show that the author fully supports is racism. Explain to me otherwise.
 
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Vawn

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You all keep using the term forced diversity and yet not a single person has explained what about a show taking place in a fictional world, made in a very diverse country, being somewhat diverse makes the diversity forced as opposed to natural. I didn't just play the race card and cherry picking just that part of my comments when I consistently asked for any proof whatsoever for anything he said, is a joke. A person fighting the inclusion of blacks in a fictional show that the author fully supports is racism. Explain to me otherwise.
These characters were established and were NOT black. They're black in the show and the reasons are obvious - to avoid SJW backlash.

THAT'S forced diversity.
 

Renozokii

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I wouldn't bother. He is just a slightly more eloquent version of the 'oh i'm totally not a SJW but...' guy. Notice how his reply to me was disguised as an actual argument yet boiled down to 'you're not racist but close minded and uncomfortable with black people on screen'? It's just a longer version of 'you're racist'. That's all they have - assumptions based on projections
That's definitely all my post boiled down to. Not quotes from the author or pointing out that the Polish people you claim are disrespected, are in fact, not. So what does your post boil down to? "You are an sjw because you aren't automatically against the inclusion of diversity in existing all white fictional settings"?

I am not a sjw. I look at things from different experiences and try my best to take an educated position. In some cases, the diversity is forced, for example retelling of real events where POC are given a larger presence than they had in the real events. Adaptations where the main character is mysteriously a different race, especially when the source content already had a diverse supporting cast. Stories told in nearly all white real countries where a lot of the characters are POC. Diversity that hinders the logic of the story, or the backstory of a character. In this particular situation however, there is no argument to be made judging by you having already given up. You are simply upset there are POC in a fictional world. You have no legitimate reasons for that, or at least you've yet to make one.
 
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Renozokii

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These characters were established and were NOT black. They're black in the show and the reasons are obvious - to avoid SJW backlash.

THAT'S forced diversity.
I am asking an extremely simple question. What is making this situation leap from race swapping to forced diversity. I'm really asking about the "forced" part. Who forced it? Are you sure it's forced? Are you sure those actors just weren't their best options? Is it not natural for US made content to be more diverse than where the population is nearly all white? Is there a reason relating to story or otherwise that those races swaps are an issue, or are a detriment to the story and/or lore?
 
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Kadayi

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These characters were established and were NOT black. They're black in the show and the reasons are obvious - to avoid SJW backlash.
Sapkowski doesn't really get that into what is or isn't in the books, so that's a pretty bold statement too say the least there Vawn, especially given the show was made with his approval., If he doesn't think it's such a big deal to have POC in there why do you? I find it slightly ironic that for a series that deals a lot with racial prejudice when it comes to the treatment of Demi-humans in the books who are basically avatars for POC in the first place at there is so much knee jerk resistance to having some actual POC featured in the cast. I guess the Order of the Flaming Rose has to have its advocates though 🤔
 

Vawn

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Sapkowski doesn't really get that into what is or isn't in the books, so that's a pretty bold statement too say the least there Vawn, especially given the show was made with his approval., If he doesn't think it's such a big deal to have POC in there why do you? I find it slightly ironic that for a series that deals a lot with racial prejudice when it comes to the treatment of Demi-humans in the books who are basically avatars for POC in the first place at there is so much knee jerk resistance to having some actual POC featured in the cast. I guess the Order of the Flaming Rose has to have its advocates though 🤔
The racism is between the elves, dwarves and humans - not blacks, who were not in the world.

I don't care much, but it does take me out of the world everytime I see a black character playing a previously white character knowing full well why they did that.
 
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Vawn

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I am asking an extremely simple question. What is making this situation leap from race swapping to forced diversity. I'm really asking about the "forced" part. Who forced it? Are you sure it's forced? Are you sure those actors just weren't their best options? Is it not natural for US made content to be more diverse than where the population is nearly all white? Is there a reason relating to story or otherwise that those races swaps are an issue, or are a detriment to the story and/or lore?
That's like saying "we felt Dwayne Johnson was the best option to play Willow in the remake. He totally nailed the audition.".
 
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Miku Miku

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I liked when Cavil fought, and when he said "mmm" and "fuck."

Not sure how I made it to the end. That
dragon
was some syfy original tier shenanigans.
 
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