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The Wonderful 101 |OT| Diplomacy has failed

Hypron

Member
May 9, 2012
11,838
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Honestly if you like Bayonetta or Rising, you will probably like this game. It doesn't top Bayo for me but it blows Rising away easily.

Haha for me it's the complete opposite. Rising > TW101 > Bayonetta (enjoyment wise). Rising takes the top just because it doesn't have any BS space harrier sequence (and
because of the godlike final boss
).
 

illmatic22

Banned
Aug 19, 2011
8,852
0
715
Will be picking this up on saturday. Not the biggest platinum fan, and I like The Last of Us, so I probably don't fit well into the target audience, but I need something to play on my Wii U. Was recently pleasanty surprised by Pikmin 3, despite having never played the first two titles, so I am open minded to a variety of video games. Hoping for the best, the demo was certainly interesting enough to make me want to play the full game, despite my initial struggles with the gameplay.
 

brandonh83

Banned
Jun 26, 2005
69,632
3
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Rising felt incomplete to me, while I didn't feel that way about Bayonetta or TW101.

Yeah. Rising just... I dunno. It didn't work for me. Not as a MGS game or even a Platinum game outside of a few bosses. It didn't feel satisfying or whole, the level design was terrible and the only real joy I got out of it was, again, a handful of the bosses.

Wonderful 101, on the other hand, completely over-delivers. People praise the weird lyrical boss music in MGR, but I think tracks like the final boss track in W101 are far more impressive and should be put up on a pedestal but I get that it's just taste.
 

Tyrant Rave

Banned
Apr 13, 2012
12,324
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Haha for me it's the complete opposite. Rising > TW101 > Bayonetta (enjoyment wise). Rising takes the top just because it doesn't have any BS space harrier sequence (and
because of the godlike final boss
).

I enjoyed the core gameplay and boss fights for Rising, but the camera issues and lack of weapons really brought it down for me. I was really hoping the boss weapons would be full-fledged weapons with their own unique blade modes, so I was underwhelmed by them in the final game.
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 14, 2010
66,814
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The last 3 stages of Rising are a short sprint with a few fights in between, a duel, and a stealth section before a bunch of boss fights, in that order. Compared to the first few operations, they feel pretty light.

Still, pretty damn good considering the dev time.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
Rising is crap and will be left out of any further consideration in this post

I loved both Bayonetta and Metal Gear Rising and I think this game blows both out of the water. It is more interesting and flat out more fun and intense, at least in my opinion.

I can't even compare the two personally. because of how much 101 owes and pays homage to Bayonetta coming first, as well as a whole bunch of other PG/Clover games. 101 has alot of interesting ideas of its own, but it borrows ideas and mechanics from previous PG/Kamiya games more than any other game they've ever made, and improves on them based on feedback on their implementation in those older games. So to me it seems unfair to say 101 is better than the giants it's standing on the shoulders of.

They're easily PG's best two games but I honestly can't decide which I like more. Bayonetta is the game that made me a PG fan, while 101 is a game that seems tailor-made for me as a PG fan. They're both just invaluable gaming experiences to me.
 

Hypron

Member
May 9, 2012
11,838
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520
I enjoyed the core gameplay and boss fights for Rising, but the camera issues and lack of weapons really brought it down for me. I was really hoping the boss weapons would be full-fledged weapons with their own unique blade modes, so I was underwhelmed by them in the final game.

Fair enough. To be honest if I had to review all 3 games right now (I finished Bayo 4 times, Rising ~10 times and I'm a third of the way through my second TW101 playthrough), I'd probably rate TW101 and Bayonetta over Rising, because objectively they offer a lot more content and their combat systems are more fleshed out. However, when I play through MGR:R there's not a single section of the game that I don't like (not talking about the sub-weapon VR missions though). I know I'll be having fun the whole way through. Whereas I can't say the same about the other two games. I dread the space harrier levels (although, TW101's are miles better than Bayonetta's) because I don't find them fun and I'm terrible at them. If I could just skip all of them I'd be a happy man but since there are collectibles/unlockables/bossfights tied to these sections I'll still need to play them.

On the other hand, I really liked the
punch out
sections in TW101. They are well done and closer to what I expect from an action game.
 

The Lamp

Member
Nov 6, 2010
17,176
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0
So let me get this straight. You're basing your enjoyment of the entire game off of the first 5 minutes of the demo and you can't get further because you can't figure out how to open the door, the easiest puzzle in the game?

Look, I can "reassure" you that the game is amazing and to open the shrink wrap. I am sure most people in this topic would as well. The game really is that amazing. If you're honestly giving up after 5 minutes and stumped on a super easy puzzle then maybe the game isn't for you. It has a learning curve (granted i wouldn't really consider the pad puzzle sections part of that). You need patience and you need to put in the effort, and if you do you will be rewarded.

I loved both Bayonetta and Metal Gear Rising and I think this game blows both out of the water. It is more interesting and flat out more fun and intense, at least in my opinion.

My ultimate opinion is you bought the game so try actually playing it instead of just the demo. If you get stuck at a part like the warehouse just remember the game uses both screens and there will be something on one of them to help you get through.

I'm gonna go retry the demo because I had no idea I had to pay attention to both screens to solve a puzzle. I just got a Wii U so the whole two screens thing is still kind of weird to me. I'm not really giving up, I just said that that moment kind of burned the hype I had for the game. I would have stuck with it longer I just had to leave to go somewhere and I was getting impatient with whatever the doorknob thing was. I didn't even know this game HAD puzzles, so that alone is news to me.
 

Neiteio

Member
Nov 10, 2007
54,436
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Rising is lean and mean. I don't care for the VR missions but the campaign is FUN. The core mechanics never get old, and no boss fight disappoints. Only part that doesn't hold up on replay is the enforced slow walk and talk before Monsoon. But Monsoon himself is SO worth it!
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
However, when I play through MGR:R there's not a single section of the game that I don't like

You liked the turret shooting gallery stage?

and the Raiden crippled by guilt stealth section?

and the pitch black subway play in AR mode section?

and MONSOON?? *barfs*
 

Neiteio

Member
Nov 10, 2007
54,436
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You liked the turret shooting gallery stage?

and the Raiden crippled by guilt stealth section?

and the pitch black subway play in AR mode section?

and MONSOON?? *barfs*
Retro_! :O

What's not to like about Monsoon? He's like the most parry-happy part of the game!

Also, the subway is badass as hell one-shotting the gorillas.

You're right the crippled-by-guilt section sucks balls.

But what is this turret section of which you speak??
 

Roto13

Member
Dec 5, 2008
26,051
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Retro_! :O

What's not to like about Monsoon? He's like the most parry-happy part of the game!

Also, the subway is badass as hell one-shotting the gorillas.

You're right the crippled-by-guilt section sucks balls.

But what is this turret section of which you speak??

The guilt section is like 30 seconds long.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
Monsoon is a great fight if you know how to play the game.

Funny the more I learned about the game the more I realized how limited his encounter is.

So many moves that just make you stop your offense. Constantly interrupts the fight to go invul and start up another cutscene/minigame.(which, I don't know about you guys, but those only get more fun to me the more I play!!!)

It's funny because Rising has some legitimately good bosses that reward game knowledge. Sam, Armstrong(both of them) and even Ray in the prologue are all really fun fights that play to the games strengths and have tons of different effective and equally valid approaches to the fights.(well maybe not Ray)

but people keep praising that shitty encounter. Some of them people with phrases like "action game taboo" being apart of their vocabulary when talking about these games.
 

brandonh83

Banned
Jun 26, 2005
69,632
3
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Final boss theme

1:17

oh my god

sorry I can't get over it, everytime I heard that while playing I got borderline choked up at how amazing and epic and absolutely beautiful it is, coupled with the fact that I cared about everything that was going on.
 

Hypron

Member
May 9, 2012
11,838
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You liked the turret shooting gallery stage?

Are you talking about the lobby fight? You only need to use the turret for like half the encounter (and you can use sub-weapons instead if you want).

and the Raiden crippled by guilt stealth section?

I was tempted to write "almost everything" because of that section... But to be honest this section is short and really painless. I s-ranked it on my first try pretty much every time. It doesn't even last 3 minutes and then it's done.

and the pitch black subway play in AR mode section?

It's super short and the lightning changes when you're in a fight so it's all good.

and MONSOON?? *barfs*

What's wrong with Monsoon?

Edit:

None of which have you shooting regular enemies from a distance where they're smaller than your cross hairs.

None of which where the enemies attack pattern is DONT LET US SPAWN MOTHER FUCKER OR YOU WONT TOUCH THE TURRET AGAIN or HOPE YOU HAVE REPAIR PASTES AND HEALTH UPGRADES

Use your smoke grenades dude :p
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
There's that one turret section in the big building before you go in the elevators

course there's like 5x as many damn turret sections in this game

None of which have you shooting regular enemies from a distance where they're smaller than your cross hairs.

None of which where the enemy's attack pattern is DONT LET US SPAWN MOTHER FUCKER OR YOU WONT TOUCH THE TURRET AGAIN(rocket launcher soldiers) or HOPE YOU HAVE REPAIR PASTES AND HEALTH UPGRADES(GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD)
 

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Jul 21, 2013
46,661
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665
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st. louis
help me guys, I'm trying to get a steady job so I can get a wiiU and join in on the fun, but the more I hear about this game, the harder it is to resist watching a playthrough or a lets play of it and experiencing the joy, I would still buy and play the game regardless, though I would prefer it be a fresh experience.
 

brandonh83

Banned
Jun 26, 2005
69,632
3
0
38
What I loved so much about the story in this was how absolutely everything mattered. Every single character and plot device just worked. I didn't really care for Luka at first, I thought it was just going to be some typical thing but holy shit was I wrong. Also Prince Vorkken was amazing. God I fucking love this game and none of my friends care despite my best efforts so GAF is all I have. All they say is that all they have time for is GTA, but I love GTA too but I can play other games too, maybe stop being a bunch of fucking pussies?
 

TDLink

Member
Jan 24, 2010
11,049
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880
I'm gonna go retry the demo because I had no idea I had to pay attention to both screens to solve a puzzle. I just got a Wii U so the whole two screens thing is still kind of weird to me. I'm not really giving up, I just said that that moment kind of burned the hype I had for the game. I would have stuck with it longer I just had to leave to go somewhere and I was getting impatient with whatever the doorknob thing was. I didn't even know this game HAD puzzles, so that alone is news to me.

That's understandable. Honestly just go play the full game. The demo is about 2/3 of the first full level, but in the actual game there is a prologue first that eases you into the controls and really gets you into the mood the game is trying to convey with the story and characters. The demo is pure gameplay without any of that stuff.

If you play the full game after the prologue alone it is hard not to be hyped to continue on and that really continues for essentially the whole game. The demo lacks that momentum because it picks up after that beginning, I think it's a lot of the reason the demo has been polarizing. It's not terrible representative of the final game.

Tip for the full game though: After the prologue make sure you buy Unite Guts and Unite Spring (Block and Dodge). You can do both right away and if you don't you'll probably regret it.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
Are you talking about the lobby fight? You only need to use the turret for like half the encounter (and you can use sub-weapons instead if you want).

You can also No Damage it too if you really want

but I'm not trying to be playing Rising all day. Only so much time on this Earth.

I was tempted to write "almost everything" because of that section... But to be honest this section is short and really painless. I s-ranked it on my first try pretty much every time. It doesn't even last 3 minutes and then it's done.

It's such a poorly designed section in every aspect.

Especially when you take into consideration their solution to "No Damage" the entire stage.(you get a label for doing so)

They expect you to gather up all the fire extinguishers or something and painstakingly roll them to the area where those soldiers beat you up until Monsoon comes out.

Then trigger them off one by one so they.....don't.

Then you get the No Damage completion label on that stage.

There's literally no other way.

Why would anyone intentionally design something so tedious?

because it's Metal Gear Rising.

Use your smoke grenades dude :p

The awesome part about that is that it makes it harder for you to see them as well. lol

RISING
 

JoeFenix

Member
Nov 17, 2005
3,580
0
0
I swear I must be the only person in the world who loved the VR missions in Rising. The DLC ones were even cooler honestly.

I wish there were more! I blasted through them in a single sitting when they came out. I still love Rising even with all it's flaws, the core gameplay loop is incredibly satisfying.
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 14, 2010
66,814
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I swear I must be the only person in the world who loved the VR missions in Rising.

Spoken like a man who never got the Platinum trophy in that game

I like it a lot more than Retro_(which continues to amuse to no end, because he was always defending it pre-release and I was skeptical about EVERYTHING), but the closer you look at that game's mechanics and game design, the shabbier it all is. It's filled with little inconsistencies and one dimensional strategies that you probably don't notice when you blast through on Hard, but trying to S-Rank the hardest difficulty? It's a pretty shoddy production.
 

Hypron

Member
May 9, 2012
11,838
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You can also No Damage it too if you really want

but I'm not trying to be playing Rising all day. Only so much time on this Earth.
This section only takes a long time in Revengeance though. It's fairly quick in all the other modes. And it was made in such a way that you just need to finish it without dying in order to get the maximum rank, which is actually pretty simple.
It's such a poorly designed section in every aspect.

Especially when you take into consideration their solution to "No Damage" the entire stage.(you get a label for doing so)

They expect you to gather up all the fire extinguishers or something and painstakingly roll them to the area where those soldiers beat you up until Monsoon comes out.

Then trigger them off one by one so they.....don't.

Then you get the No Damage completion label on that stage.

There's literally no other way.

Why would anyone intentionally design something so tedious?

because it's Metal Gear Rising.

Haaaa, I understand things better now. I never even bothered with the no-damage bonuses in this game, since they're not required to get the highest possible rank. I guess it would be a pain in the ass to no-damage that entire section.
The awesome part about that is that it makes it harder for you to see them as well. lol

RISING

You don't need to see them, just fire all over the place until a health bar appears :p

Anyway, we should probably get back on topic haha.
 

JoeFenix

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Nov 17, 2005
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Spoken like a man who never got the Platinum trophy in that game

I like it a lot more than Retro_(which continues to amuse to no end, because he was always defending it pre-release and I was skeptical about EVERYTHING), but the closer you look at that game's mechanics and game design, the shabbier it all is. It's filled with little inconsistencies and one dimensional strategies that you probably don't notice when you blast through on Hard, but trying to S-Rank the hardest difficulty? It's a pretty shoddy production.

Really? Do I have to link my PSN account?

http://psnprofiles.com/trophies/1849-METAL-GEAR-RISING-REVENGEANCE/JoeFenix

You can work around all the little annoyances fairly easily in Rising, I'm able to play really consistently. It isn't the most polished game P* has made but I had a blast with it.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
This section only takes a long time in Revengeance though. It's fairly quick in all the other modes. And it was made in such a way that you just need to finish it without dying in order to get the maximum rank, which is actually pretty simple.

Haaaa, I understand things better now. I never even bothered with the no-damage bonuses in this game, since they're not required to get the highest possible rank. I guess it would be a pain in the ass to no-damage that entire section.

I think my criticism is coming from a different place than most people are with their praise.

Like I get that Rising, on a surface level, is a pretty awesome game. The gameplay, music, cutscenes all have an appeal that I respect that people enjoy.

but when I look at the game I just see all these design decisions on a deeper level that just confuse me. Like some of the rankings I described or some of the VR missions that just seem like straight up trolls.

and because of that I just can't get behind Rising. My love of Bayonetta comes from how the game, while flawed, seems like it has my enjoyment in mind at every level. I never felt like my time was "wasted" playing Bayonetta. While Rising I felt was the exact opposite. The more I put into the game the more it seemed like the game didn't respect me or my time.(like really I don't see how you can respect your users time while designing a solution like the one I described above)

Anyway, we should probably get back on topic haha.

Yeah fair enough. lol

Spoken like a man who never got the Platinum trophy in that game

You don't know Joe

He didn't only get the Platinum trophy

He got 100%. Meaning he got all of the DLC trophies too. All I could stomach was the Sam ones and even those were kinda hard to swallow.(I do think DLC Armstrong is a very very intense and interesting encounter that I have developed alot more respect for over time though)

Not only that, but he was one of the first people on PSN Trophies to do so for the DLC ones.

So basically what you meant to say was "Spoken like a man who probably has horrible, horrible piercings in terrifying places"
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 14, 2010
66,814
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www.neogaf.com
holy fucking shit he has the DLC trophies as well

like trying to get the fuckin' parry to work against super fast off-the-wall/off-screen metal gorillas ONCE wasn't enough, he didn't have his fill on these shitty little thrown together sub-weapon system missions where you pray to God the robot raptors get stuck in a recovery loop as you shoot rockets at them forever, oh no...he paid money to do it again

that is...something else.
 

Riposte

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Sep 21, 2010
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I think scoring is the least important thing about a P* game to me. Like, I can't take any of these complaints seriously when they are based on getting trophies from perfect runs on the highest difficulty. I'm not at all surprised that made the game less appealing.

That said, I really disliked Rising's upgrade structure and how its difficulty was so tied to it. Trying to play higher difficulties fresh was such a slog, I couldn't stand it, yet the game became easier as you unlock stronger and stronger stuff (some enemies go from tough battles to use this secondary weapon to win). The game swings between easy and hard in really dumb ways.

Picking the best P* game this year is a toss up. Leo Chapter 4 on Hard (didn't have to unlock!) from Anarchy Reigns is at least the best piece of a game they've given us, I know that much. Then again, that was with a slightly self-imposed "no respawn" rule, hmm.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I didn't play TW101 higher difficulties yet, so whatever.
 

JoeFenix

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Nov 17, 2005
3,580
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The VR missions were a test of your understanding of the game honestly. They were clever, inventive and some of combat ones with special requirements were incredibly intense. Only a couple of the stealth ones were slightly questionable because the AI is a bit wonky.

I feel like the walk and talk, inconsistency of enemy encounters and some of the bosses were the weakest aspects of Rising. I'm not going to go into the story or any of that, too subjective. It didn't feel like a Metal Gear game but it had some REALLY memorable moments.

It's not the deepest game in terms of options but with blade mode canceling you are essentially never locked down. Always on the offense, always in the enemies face, always kicking ass. I would love to see what Saito could do with a full dev cycle and a solid budget.

holy fucking shit he has the DLC trophies as well

like trying to get the fuckin' parry to work against super fast off-the-wall/off-screen metal gorillas ONCE wasn't enough, he didn't have his fill on these shitty little thrown together sub-weapon system missions where you pray to God the robot raptors get stuck in a recovery loop as you shoot rockets at them forever, oh no...he paid money to do it again

that is...something else.

Dude, the mastiffs are a joke. Real talk.

And those subweapon missions? Most of them were first or second try, not trying to brag but this shit is just not anywhere as bad as you're making it out to be.

W101 is definitely harder to Pure Platinum then anything I've done in Rising.
 

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
Dec 10, 2008
40,511
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In possible future games news, Kamiya pitched an idea on Twitter for a spin-off starring Wonder Blue with realistic graphics.
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/383428888363163648

I don't know... the game really worked because everyone was playing off each other. It'd be weird to see Blue by himself without Green trolling him or Red holding him back.

Of course, one of the first questions asked was "Will it be on PS4/Xbox One"? His response as usual was "Ask Ninty". People still don't seem to get The Wonderful 101 is a Nintendo IP.
 

TDLink

Member
Jan 24, 2010
11,049
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In possible future games news, Kamiya pitched an idea on Twitter for a spin-off starring Wonder Blue with realistic graphics.
https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/383428888363163648

I don't know... the game really worked because everyone was playing off each other. It'd be weird to see Blue by himself without Green trolling him or Red holding him back.

Of course, one of the first questions asked was "Will it be on PS4/Xbox One"? His response as usual was "Ask Ninty". People still don't seem to get The Wonderful 101 is a Nintendo IP.

I'll take whatever game Kamiya wants to throw at me. If that's a Wonder Blue hack and slash, sure why not.
 

Snapshot King

Member
Feb 16, 2008
8,710
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I just beat the game, amazing. Started up on hard, and I desperately need a question answered! Gameplay question for hard mode!

I can't seem to use Goggles, Naginata, Boomerang, Bowgun and Drill! Please don't tell me those unite morphs are specific to later levels, or in the case of drills, only a single one =(
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
Why Blue.
Blue is lame.

I kinda feel the same

I don't think he could carry an entire game himself

but I mean the game part is why I'm on board on any Kamiya game. So if he and his team have some good ideas for a Blue hack and slash I'm there day 1.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
I just beat the game, amazing. Started up on hard, and I desperately need a question answered! Gameplay question for hard mode!

I can't seem to use Goggles, Naginata, Boomerang, Bowgun and Drill! Please don't tell me those unite morphs are specific to later levels, or in the case of drills, only a single one =(

They are level exclusive until you unlock those characters via bottlecap requirements
 

Tyrant Rave

Banned
Apr 13, 2012
12,324
0
0
I just beat the game, amazing. Started up on hard, and I desperately need a question answered! Gameplay question for hard mode!

I can't seem to use Goggles, Naginata, Boomerang, Bowgun and Drill! Please don't tell me those unite morphs are specific to later levels, or in the case of drills, only a single one =(

Gotta unlock them unfortunately.

There's a ton of other characters too. Gamefaqs seems to be the best source of info at the moment.