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The Wonderful 101 |OT| Diplomacy has failed

ViewtifulJC

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Oct 14, 2010
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Replaying this for the Platinum trophies, its clear to me one of the great things about Kamiya action games is that he has a great feel for pacing in his level structure. It's not enough to have a great combat system and then boring hallways connecting you to them. DMC3 and NG2 have some great fights, but do you remember any of the shit you do in-between them? Furthermore, there's just this constant onslaught of people to fight in NG2, that don't feel unique anymore. After awhile, it just becomes a slog.

W101, like Viewtiful Joe, breaks it's stages into three acts, two big sections and then a boss fight. Big encounters are broken down further into "missions"/"verses"/etc, making them feel more special in their pacing, having a number to identify with. You can rarely go ten minutes in the first 6 operations without a new weapon or a new enemy or a completely unique gameplay idea to contend with.

Take Op.3-A for example:
One minute you're fighting off the outside of a plane in a storm, the next you're dodging projectiles as you do some platforming across the wings collecting batteries. The next minute, you're breaking a chain with your sword and dodging fire boxes leaning to and fro on the plane, which is immediately followed with an interesting encounter with two shielded tanks that test your ability to manage the screen real estate because they're kinda spread apart. Run ahead, AH room full of poison, run ahead, meet Yellow, get a new weapon! 20 seconds later, you're using that hammer, first a tutorial of such against two of the big robots you're familiar with, then one of the hardest regular enemies in the game, the Metal Turtles are introduced. These guys kinda kick your ass, but you finally figure them out, and you're rewarded with a little casino minigame! Run ahead, door's locked, gotta climb upstairs and get ya Lightning Sword on deck, which is tested in a Laser Tank battle. Run down with your sword, open the door, run ahead and you fight a couple unique enemies you haven't seen in awhile. Beat them, turn the crank, and now it's time for something completely different, as you juggle the screen and the gamepad in this deadly maze full of that poison gas introduced earlier, full of enemies, trap floors, collectibles, and secret items. Finally, you escape, with the climax of the level being those damnable turtles who whooped your ass awhile ago, you thought you were home free, lets see if you learned anything from last time.

Like, you see what I'm saying? That's 15 or so minutes of gameplay, and there's just a lot of variety and smart pacing in how that plays out. Even the traversal sections in-between the set piece fights are interesting, like dodging projectiles while you're platforming, or utilizing the swaying boxes to try and rescue those civilians just out of reach. It feels like Kamiya and Platinum took the entire level and put it on a board, and paced it out minute by minute, "what should we have the player do now?" It's a huge game with a lot of content, both on the micro and macro level, with a lot of time and thought going into how the moment-to-moment gameplay structure works. I think that's the kind of thing that separates Kamiya action titles from most of the other ones on the market.
 

JoeFenix

Member
Nov 17, 2005
3,580
0
0
Replaying this for the Platinum trophies, its clear to me one of the great things about Kamiya action games is that he has a great feel for pacing in his level structure. It's not enough to have a great combat system and then boring hallways connecting you to them. DMC3 and NG2 have some great fights, but do you remember any of the shit you do in-between them? Furthermore, there's just this constant onslaught of people to fight in NG2, that don't feel unique anymore. After awhile, it just becomes a slog.

W101, like Viewtiful Joe, breaks it's stages into three acts, two big sections and then a boss fight. Big encounters are broken down further into "missions"/"verses"/etc, making them feel more special in their pacing, having a number to identify with. You can rarely go ten minutes in the first 6 operations without a new weapon or a new enemy or a completely unique gameplay idea to contend with.

Take Op.3-A for example:
One minute you're fighting off the outside of a plane in a storm, the next you're dodging projectiles as you do some platforming across the wings collecting batteries. The next minute, you're breaking a chain with your sword and dodging fire boxes leaning to and fro on the plane, which is immediately followed with an interesting encounter with two shielded tanks that test your ability to manage the screen real estate because they're kinda spread apart. Run ahead, AH room full of poison, run ahead, meet Yellow, get a new weapon! 20 seconds later, you're using that hammer, first a tutorial of such against two of the big robots you're familiar with, then one of the hardest regular enemies in the game, the Metal Turtles are introduced. These guys kinda kick your ass, but you finally figure them out, and you're rewarded with a little casino minigame! Run ahead, door's locked, gotta climb upstairs and get ya Lightning Sword on deck, which is tested in a Laser Tank battle. Run down with your sword, open the door, run ahead and you fight a couple unique enemies you haven't seen in awhile. Beat them, turn the crank, and now it's time for something completely different, as you juggle the screen and the gamepad in this deadly maze full of that poison gas introduced earlier, full of enemies, trap floors, collectibles, and secret items. Finally, you escape, with the climax of the level being those damnable turtles who whooped your ass awhile ago, you thought you were home free, lets see if you learned anything from last time.

Like, you see what I'm saying? That's 15 or so minutes of gameplay, and there's just a lot of variety and smart pacing in how that plays out. Even the traversal sections in-between the set piece fights are interesting, like dodging projectiles while you're platforming, or utilizing the swaying boxes to try and rescue those civilians just out of reach. It feels like Kamiya and Platinum took the entire level and put it on a board, and paced it out minute by minute, "what should we have the player do now?" It's a huge game with a lot of content, both on the micro and macro level, with a lot of time and thought going into how the moment-to-moment gameplay structure works. I think that's the kind of thing that separates Kamiya action titles from most of the other ones on the market.

Kamiya is a great Director because he really understands how to mix it up and keep things fresh. Constant variations and wrinkles, new toys to play with, new mechanics to learn, new enemy types to conquer and humor to throw you off guard. He's not content with just doing an "OK" job, he seems to always go balls out and so far this game is the very embodiment of everything he does well. My only complaints are so trivial that I don't even feel like talking about them right now. I just finished 3-A and it was awesome for all the reasons you described.

He really is the best.
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 14, 2010
66,814
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Beaumont, TX
www.neogaf.com
So how do you throw enemies with pink consistently?

From my playing, you need them in that blue dizzy stars stun state. That how it works for a lot of enemies, anyway(the scorpions, the turtles, the big Robot guns with the spikes you strip, etc). For the turtles, I'll block an attack, switch to red, get in a couple A-button combos while they'll stunned, maybe a Cyclone for extra points, then quickly switch to whip for a throw before the stun state is over. That usually kills them in one turn on Normal, and gives you a good amount of points, too.
 

JasoNsider

Member
Jun 7, 2004
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0
Just finished second operation and I'm kind of in love with everything about this game. I got chills the second time they activated unlimited power. Seriously, what an awesome ride.

It also can't be overstated how great the music is in this title. It's so energetic!
 

sfried

Member
Apr 25, 2009
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Are there any major differences between the eShop release and the retail version? How many here have the download version?
 

Schnozberry

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Nov 9, 2012
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Are there any major differences between the eShop release and the retail version? How many here have the download version?

I went digital because the load times are so much better that way generally on Wii U. I don't know of any other differences.
 
Feb 28, 2007
928
0
1,115
Help! I'm stuck.

I don't know what operation I'm on but I'm stuck in a rotating piece of ship that's on fire. No idea what to do.
 
Aug 24, 2005
5,256
0
1,370
Jersey City, NJ/NYC
I was finally able to pick this game up today. Boy does that demo really not do justice to this game. Its so over the top and epic, im really having so much fun playing this game. The gameplay, graphics, speed, atmosphere is just fantastic! I cant wait untill I unlock more things and get more technical with the fighting system. This is a must own for everyone period!
 

Regiruler

Member
Jun 4, 2013
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When there's an oncoming attack, for specific fights, sometimes one of the main heroes (e.g. Blue or White) makes sort of a grunting noise (I've noticed it in the 001-C boss, the 004-C boss, and the chainsaw miniboss for 004-B). I'm assuming that means they have a counter attack, but how do I activate it and what is the timing for it? Every time I try to press A to try and activate it, it fails.
 

JacksUsername

Member
May 23, 2007
2,133
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0
Haven't had the time to play this since Sunday night; starting vacation tomorrow and can't wait to sink in some more time. I got to watch the Giant Bomb Quick Look though and thought it was pretty funny; glad it was Vinny at the wheel, since he can freely admit that he doesn't grasp the mechanics and still have a good time.
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 14, 2010
66,814
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0
Beaumont, TX
www.neogaf.com
When there's an oncoming attack, for specific fights, sometimes one of the main heroes (e.g. Blue or White) makes sort of a grunting noise (I've noticed it in the 001-C boss, the 004-C boss, and the chainsaw miniboss for 004-B). I'm assuming that means they have a counter attack, but how do I activate it and what is the timing for it? Every time I try to press A to try and activate it, it fails.

Just draw the weapon and stand there with it out.
 

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
Dec 10, 2008
40,511
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0
I just had a terrifying thought. DSP trying to play this game. It would be a nightmare.
 

ViewtifulJC

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Oct 14, 2010
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Also, I found the 004-C fight to be kinda boring. Like "001-C once you replay it" level boring.

I can't remember, was that the big Octopus one? Because yeah, that was the worst one in the game. Easy to Platinum, though!

I warmed up a lot more to 001-C on a recent Platinum run. The opening button mashing turret section still stinks, but I really like a lot of aspects about the fight after that, and it has a wonderfully satisfying QTE finisher for a conclusion.

005, 006, and 009 are all pretty great I think, so you gotta to look forward to.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Aug 6, 2010
17,722
5
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I had trouble with a Wonder Toilet on 3-1...

I tried to put all my dudes in it, but every time one dude would be left out and running around on his own from the rest of the group. :/
 

Regiruler

Member
Jun 4, 2013
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620
I had trouble with a Wonder Toilet on 3-1...

I tried to put all my dudes in it, but every time one dude would be left out and running around on his own from the rest of the group. :/

That's one of the games problems: unite build and wonder toilets aren't very cooperative at times, particularly when you have a lot of members. Sometimes some of the members wander off and you have to do it again.
Occasionally moving closer and releasing pressure on the control stick, then pushing towards it again helps.
 
Jun 12, 2013
7,639
2
0
Just finished 006. FINALLY figured out a good strategy for the
Vorkenn fights
. I'm ready for the final third of this wonderful game :)
 

Gattuso

Member
Oct 18, 2012
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Riverside, CA
That's one of the games problems: unite build and wonder toilets aren't very cooperative at times, particularly when you have a lot of members. Sometimes some of the members wander off and you have to do it again.
Occasionally moving closer and releasing pressure on the control stick, then pushing towards it again helps.

I gave up on a few of the wonder toilets because of that. No matter how many times I tried one or more would always be doing their own thing so eventually I would just move on with the level.
 

Regiruler

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Jun 4, 2013
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I can't remember, was that the big Octopus one? Because yeah, that was the worst one in the game. Easy to Platinum, though!

I warmed up a lot more to 001-C on a recent Platinum run. The opening button mashing turret section still stinks, but I really like a lot of aspects about the fight after that, and it has a wonderfully satisfying QTE finisher for a conclusion.

005, 006, and 009 are all pretty great I think, so you gotta to look forward to.

How is the first portion of 001-C button mashing when it's just moving and holding down a button, and occasionally pressing another button? Just as boring, though.
 

sfried

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Apr 25, 2009
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I went digital because the load times are so much better that way generally on Wii U. I don't know of any other differences.
I still thought the loadtimes were still somewhat longish despite going digital.In fact, I was thinking maybe harddrive speed could also be affecting performance (and the framerate). that said, it hasn't stopped my enjoyment of the game.

Already completed Operation 002.
 
Oct 1, 2006
34,016
1
0
Haven't had the time to play this since Sunday night; starting vacation tomorrow and can't wait to sink in some more time. I got to watch the Giant Bomb Quick Look though and thought it was pretty funny; glad it was Vinny at the wheel, since he can freely admit that he doesn't grasp the mechanics and still have a good time.

Yeah, watched that and while I don't understand the phenomenon that is that guy(though he seems down to earth or dearth) but I appreciate his open mind and not rushing to judge what is an utterly complex game if you take full advantage of it.

He is going at it the right way.

I mean, I am way better than him at it but with his mindframe, he will get there in no time because he seems willing to keep on learning.

The dude makes the game look cool and he's not even juggling enemies.

However, he stopped just before The Queen:[
 

TDLink

Member
Jan 24, 2010
11,049
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Just finished Operation 6. Liking where the story is going. And I did a big "HOLY FUCK YES" when
The flashback happened out of nowhere and I got to play as Nelson with Wonder Drill. I wanted to play as Nelson since the beginning and retro pompadour + mustache Nelson shooting down like a bullet into his ID card was goddamn awesome.
At every turn this game just continues to deliver.
 

Xpite

Neo Member
Aug 24, 2012
72
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I feel like this game should have pikmin 3/rayman legends highscore charts that would display at the end of each mission.
 

JoeFenix

Member
Nov 17, 2005
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Wait.... I just got Pure Platinum on every mission in the prologue and still got a Platinum overall. Does this game even have an overall Pure Platinum trophy like Bayonetta does?
 
Mar 10, 2005
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I am all up for the change. Also its probably cause English is not my my main language, but could someone explain to me what the pun(?) in "Feel of 202" is?

It is a joke about DmC, when Ninja Theory said the game was only 30fps, but had "the feel of 60 fps."

It is a joke that made more sense when I thought of this title in March than it does now.
 

sfried

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Apr 25, 2009
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It is a joke about DmC, when Ninja Theory said the game was only 30fps, but had "the feel of 60 fps."

It is a joke that made more sense when I thought of this title in March than it does now.
So I'm not the only one who noticed the frame rate dips, although it never goes bellow 30.
 

vanty

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Dec 6, 2008
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Yeah I think that if there are empty spots among your medals at the end of a stage that tells you you missed secret missions at that point of the stage.
 

Regiruler

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Jun 4, 2013
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Your shots go faster when you mash, which means more damage per second, which is necessary if you're going for a Platinum rank because the time requirement is kinda strict.

That reminds me: does hitting the head do more damage or am I imagining things?
 

RomanceDawn

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Apr 29, 2013
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This is my first Platinum game and I am eating up every bit of it. Now then, can someone tell me if I am using only the pro controller, do I NEED the GamePad handy to do those portions where my hoard of heroes go inside a building? Or can I shut it off completely?

Also I find that during certain times I can't pause the game to access my items, why is that?
 

TDLink

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Jan 24, 2010
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This is my first Platinum game and I am eating up every bit of it. Now then, can someone tell me if I am using only the pro controller, do I NEED the GamePad handy to do those portions where my hoard of heroes go inside a building? Or can I shut it off completely?

Also I find that during certain times I can't pause the game to access my items, why is that?

You will still need the second screen for the parts that require it. You can picture-in-picture it on your TV if playing with the Pro though with the minus button.

During battle they have something in the code to help prevent accidentally opening the menu in the middle of fighting. This mean tapping plus won't open it. You need to hold down plus for a few seconds and then the menu will open.
 

RomanceDawn

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Apr 29, 2013
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You will still need the second screen for the parts that require it. You can picture-in-picture it on your TV if playing with the Pro though with the minus button.

During battle they have something in the code to help prevent accidentally opening the menu in the middle of fighting. This mean tapping plus won't open it. You need to hold down plus for a few seconds and then the menu will open.

Ah, thank you very much. Thank you KnivSmith as well on the previous page.
 

Tyrant Rave

Banned
Apr 13, 2012
12,324
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0
This is my first Platinum game and I am eating up every bit of it. Now then, can someone tell me if I am using only the pro controller, do I NEED the GamePad handy to do those portions where my hoard of heroes go inside a building? Or can I shut it off completely?

Also I find that during certain times I can't pause the game to access my items, why is that?

I haven't tried playing with anything besides the gamepad, but you can probably still hit minus to swap the screens for the indoor segments.

As for the pausing thing, holding pause seems to be more consistent. It's odd.

edit: beaten!
 

Seik

Banned
Apr 17, 2011
15,626
2
0
Just reached Operation 004.

Seriously, this game is really something. It's genuinely fun.

Best game on Wii U so far.
 

Omzz

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Oct 3, 2011
6,056
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this game is fucking amazing. Bought this and GTAV, decided to do a playthrough of W101 first and I'm loving every second of it
 

RomanceDawn

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Apr 29, 2013
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Ok I'm really confused. I just beat that Hydra thing but wanted to go back to some earlier missions. Now it seems like I have to do them all over again. Or should I just not leave the story until an entire set of operations is complete?

Kniv somewhat explained it to me but I just don't get it. I just wanted to play some earlier levels now it seems Iike I've got to do so much over again.
 

Astarte

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Jun 22, 2013
8,797
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Holy FUCK that finale.

Forming that P with Platinum Robo, mashing A to SAVE THE WORLD (with the Wonderful 100 joining you), and that sweet epilogue.

Kamiya does it again, this game deserves to sell more!
 

Proven

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Jan 19, 2007
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So how do you throw enemies with pink consistently?
It's similar to picking up enemies with Unite Gun. The little Dough-Goo's can be picked up without any trouble, but other enemies have to be stunned (same way you can't surround them and pick them up, or juggle them normally, unless they've got stars over their head).

A small whip (10-man) can pick up Chew's and Dough-Goo's. You need a 20-man whip for tanks I believe, and maybe Die Dough-Goo's as well. I'm not exactly sure where the cut off point is for needing the 50-man whip. When I want to toss an enemy, I pretty much go straight for the size 50.

It is a joke about DmC, when Ninja Theory said the game was only 30fps, but had "the feel of 60 fps."

It is a joke that made more sense when I thought of this title in March than it does now.
I was always wondering about that. I thought the title was originally a play on the "Fury of 200 fists" bottlecap.

Ok I'm really confused. I just beat that Hydra thing but wanted to go back to some earlier missions. Now it seems like I have to do them all over again. Or should I just not leave the story until an entire set of operations is complete?

Kniv somewhat explained it to me but I just don't get it. I just wanted to play some earlier levels now it seems Iike I've got to do so much over again.

Before you start the mission, go to Menu. The last or second to last tab should have an option like "Operation Select".

I believe you can do this even if you're in the middle of a mission as long as you can reach the pause menu.

Edit: Alternatively, when you hit Next Mission, you should be able to just press left or right to choose a mission, right?
 

popyea

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Aug 24, 2012
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Ok I'm really confused. I just beat that Hydra thing but wanted to go back to some earlier missions. Now it seems like I have to do them all over again. Or should I just not leave the story until an entire set of operations is complete?

Kniv somewhat explained it to me but I just don't get it. I just wanted to play some earlier levels now it seems Iike I've got to do so much over again.

You don't have to do an entire set of Operations I'm pretty sure. You should be able to resume at something like 002b if you've completed 002a. You shouldn't have to redo anything unless you leave in the middle of a level before seeing the results screen.
 

FYC

Banned
Jul 30, 2012
4,315
0
0
Oooh title change!

Holy FUCK that finale.

Forming that P with Platinum Robo, mashing A to SAVE THE WORLD (with the Wonderful 100 joining you), and that sweet epilogue.

Kamiya does it again, this game deserves to sell more!

The last two Ops made me want to cry out of joy. They're beautiful.
 

Roto13

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Dec 5, 2008
26,051
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Next time someone says the Wii U has no games I'm going to accuse them of not buying this game and I'll probably be right.