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News There is a non-consumer SSD that is faster than the PS5 SSD

RaySoft

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This is just 8 M2 SSD's duckedtaped together with stripe (raid0) config.
So not exacly a fair comparison. No games would take advantage of it, so all you get is faster loadtimes.
 
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psorcerer

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80 us access time is pretty bad.
Which is expected for RAID drives.
I would expect <15 us for XBSX drive and even less for PS5.

Bottom line: this PC SSD will be slower than XBSX SSD for gaming related workloads, not to mention PS5.
 
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Jan 7, 2018
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I like how fanboys are now trying to spin it around and sudenly ssd speed don't matter no more :messenger_savoring:

Well of course XBSX gpu being 30% more capable is way more important than a little faster ssd.
 
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93xfan

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Shouldn't the thread title be XSX and PS5 SSD?

Nahh, you wouldn't do that, you disingenuous shill.
People already know the PS5 SSD is faster. Who do you think here doesn’t know this? No need to do personal attacks against the OP.
 

Endless Fluff

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People saying that "this doesn't count because it's expensive" look rather stupid. You can get a slower adapter for 4 SSDs for much less. 4TB@15GB/s for around $600, 4TB@20GB/s for $800. It's enthusiast hardware and the point of this is to always have over the top performance. People who buy something like this are people who also buy HEDT CPUs...

Also, 7GB/s consumer SSDs already exist, they're not on the market yet, but ADATA, Lexar, Samsung etc. have already shown their product line up for the 2nd half of 2020 at CES half a year ago. Cerny himself said that he expects 7GB/s SSDs to be available when PS5 launches, with PS5 compatible ones being available early next year.

In the end it all depends on the software anyways.
 

93xfan

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I like how fanboys are now trying to spin it around and sudenly ssd speed don't matter no more :messenger_savoring:

Well of course XBSX gpu being 30% more capable is way more important than a little faster ssd.
Both matter. People are ignoring the likely better ray tracing capabilities of the XSX due to more CUs and the CPU being steady, while the GPU is running at full clock speed too. People on the other side are ignoring the big SSD advantage and the ease of development for PS5.

both have their nice features and both are being downplayed.
 
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turtlepowa

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Nice. If i understood all the PS5 SSD threads lately correct, i can buy one of these for my i5 3470 + GTI 1030 and have better performance than a Ryzen 7 + 2080Ti. Am i right?
 
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Three

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1x SSD 825GB
PS5 up to 22GB, avg. 9GB per second

1x Raid Card for $200?
8x 4,000GB m2 a $1,000/ea = $8,200+
28GB/s divided by 8 = 3.5GB/s per m2
(the card has a price tag of $12,000 with the SSD i presume, see post below)


32,000GB harddrive space, 10+times more expensive, yet individually they're still slower, barely beating the SSD of the Xbox Series X.

Let's go one step further, and pretend that the ps5 also has a raid setup with 8x m2 each delivering 5.5GB to 9GB.

8 x 5.5 = 44GB per second
8 x 9.0 = 72GB per second

In other words the ps5 SSD is still faster, individually.
PS5 $10,000 confirmed
 

Esppiral

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But does it have the Sony/PlayStation logo slapped in the case? If not who cares?....
 
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Both matter. People are ignoring the likely better ray tracing capabilities of the XSX due to more CUs and the CPU being steady, while the GPU is running at full clock speed too. People on the other side are ignoring the big SSD advantage and the ease of development for PS5.

both have their nice features and both are being downplayed.
I honestly believe that ps5 having slightly faster ssd won't make any difference whatsoever. XBSX ssd is super fast as well btw.

On the other hand 30% or so more capable GPU performance can be easily shown in any multiplatform game, if developer would decide so. Simple example: in a game where it maxes ps5 gpu at 2560x1440 resolution, same game can be ran at full 3840x2160 or better yet same resolution but nicer more accurate raytrtacing or draw distance etc.
 
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Gashtronomy

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People already know the PS5 SSD is faster. Who do you think here doesn’t know this? No need to do personal attacks against the OP.
OP is a shill, 100%. Not just a 'I don't agree with him so he's a shill, shill' but a proper mental case shill.

Besides, who doesn't know that better parts can be bought than what's in a console costing £500?🤷‍♂️
 

Dodkrake

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I honestly believe that ps5 having slightly faster ssd won't make any difference whatsoever. XBSX ssd is super fast as well btw.

On the other hand 30% or so more capable GPU performance can be easily shown in any multiplatform game, if developer would decide so. Simple example: in a game where it maxes ps5 gpu at 2560x1440 resolution, same game can be ran at full 3840x2160 or better yet same resolution but nicer more accurate raytrtacing or draw distance etc.
Except the XSX SSD is not super fast. It's kinda average for an M2 drive.

And another one pulling 30% out of the ass. Where did this sudden 30% gap come from?
 

Sethbacca

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Even if the hardware has the speed capability doesn't that still ignore the fact that the I/O stack isn't setup on PC in any way to make that speed useful? Until pcs start getting I/O acceleration blocks and all the other fun new shit it's a bit like putting a high end car engine in a Ford fiesta.
 

Ribi

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Someone correct me if I am wrong, but no. I think Star Citizen is the only game that requires SSD on PC right now. I would imagine that changes though, right? Next-gen consoles could push that bar higher for PC games as well?
Someone told me Forza and sea of theives? Not required but listed as recommend. Again just what I've heard too lazy to fact check
 

Radical_3d

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Telling YouTube not to recommend me this guy again was the best decision of the last week. I can’t stand his little rackets socks master race rhetoric.
 
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itsjustJEFF

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I honestly believe that ps5 having slightly faster ssd won't make any difference whatsoever. XBSX ssd is super fast as well btw.

On the other hand 30% or so more capable GPU performance can be easily shown in any multiplatform game, if developer would decide so. Simple example: in a game where it maxes ps5 gpu at 2560x1440 resolution, same game can be ran at full 3840x2160 or better yet same resolution but nicer more accurate raytrtacing or draw distance etc.
How do you know better than a developer/engineer that the faster SSD won't may any difference? How do you know, that demo "Maxes out the PS5 GPU" where did we pull this quote from? How do you know this information? I would really like to read, or listen, to that interview with Epic where they state "we pushed the PS5's GPU to the max. That is the highest resolution/fps we could get" How do we know about how this demo will run "full 3840x2160 or BETTER." Cause if this is true this is a bid deal.

The demo seem to be built to impress you on how many triangles their new engine "could" stream. What was it, Billions on screen? Maybe instead of Billions if it was only Millions do you think maybe the resolution could go up a little more? Maybe the framerate could get a bump as well? maybe? possibly?
 

cyber69

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Well, I mean, if this SSD is faster than the PS5's then it is obviously much faster than the XsX's as well. It's not like this news changes that. The article title is definitely meant to be jab, as kind of a "Sweeney was wrong" kinda thing, but this doesn't change the SSD difference between the two consoles.



I would hope so.
Sweeney was talking about the overall PS5 architect (not the SSD specifically).

Reference

With that said, lets just ignore the larger piece of PS5s custom I/O architect that takes up a good portion of their silicon budget. It isn't important and has no effect on how the SSD operates /s:

 
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“The raw read speed is important, but so are the details of the I/O [input-output] mechanisms and the software stack that we put on top of them.

The unit itself is capable of outputting as much 22 gigabytes a second if the data happened to compress particularly well. By the way in terms of performance that custom decompressor equates to nine of our Zen2 cores. Thats what it would take decompress the kraken stream with a conventional cpu. There’s alot more in the custom IO unit including a dedicated DMA controller. The game can direct exactly where it wants to send the data coming off the SSD. This equates to another Zen2 core or two In terms of its copy performance. Its primary purpose is to remove check in as a bottleneck.

The best thing as a game developer when you read from the SSD, you dont need to know any of this. You dont even need to know that your data is compressed. You just indicate what data youd like to read from your orginal uncompressed file and where you like to put it and whole process of loading it happens invisibly to you and at a high speed.


Seeing that Sony are leading the way in memory solutions, they know what they are saying.
 

Rentahamster

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Was his point to be misleading?
No, he stated his point very clearly. Don't listen to it with your brain pre-wired in defense mode.

Because he contradicted himself, bashing Sweeney because some PC drives have a higher peak read speed,
"Bashing"? What LInus said isn't wrong. It is technically true that there are SSDs "on the market" that you can buy for "any amount of money"


It's not bashing because he went on to clarify Sweeney's point for him, by saying at 26:49 what Sweeney's overall point means in context.



but then eventually also mentioning that gains become CPU bound - the point of the IO complex
Which is the complete point that Linus planned on saying from the beginning, so that's hardly "stumbling". He made a very reasonable "both sides of the argument" case for why the PS5 is going to be sweet and why Sweeney's statement is hyperbole.

without ascribing that very point to the PS5 trying to work around that.
They both acknowledge the strides that the next gen consoles are making to be able to improve in this area.
 

93xfan

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OP is a shill, 100%. Not just a 'I don't agree with him so he's a shill, shill' but a proper mental case shill.

Besides, who doesn't know that better parts can be bought than what's in a console costing £500?🤷‍♂️
well I can at least agree that I don’t care about PC gaming. At. All.

Ive taken a close look at PC in the past and have determined it is not for me and I’m okay that they can get better specs.
 
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93xfan

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I honestly believe that ps5 having slightly faster ssd won't make any difference whatsoever. XBSX ssd is super fast as well btw.

On the other hand 30% or so more capable GPU performance can be easily shown in any multiplatform game, if developer would decide so. Simple example: in a game where it maxes ps5 gpu at 2560x1440 resolution, same game can be ran at full 3840x2160 or better yet same resolution but nicer more accurate raytrtacing or draw distance etc.
It may for exclusives, and technically if the Unreal engine5 demo is using the full bandwidth of PS5’s SSD during the flying part, series X may need to take a little resolution hit or use lower quality textures or use less variety in textures or get rid of some parts of the scene.

I don’t imagine developers will build multi platform games using those methods. i think they’ll often use the Xbox’s SSD as the base, or even won’t go that far if it’s going to be on PC (due to minimum specs).

I think the PS5 SSD will be more often fully utilized with exclusives like Spider Man 2 (especially with fast traveling through the city), rather than Battlefield 6, for example.
 
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Dodkrake

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The PS5 SSD doesn't do 9 GB/s. It can compress data up to 50 % and deliver that at 4.5 GB/s. It's 9 GB worth of data in a theoretical scenario, but the transfer rates never exceed 4.5 GB (same for XSX' 4.8 GB/s, it can only ever do 2.4 GB/s).
You mean 5.5, right? Because that's the uncompressed transfer rate.
 

-YFC-

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I like how people think that regular ssd's connected via sata 3 are not gonna be enough for next gen games. I find it funny how people believe the whole marketing spiel/talk Sony says. Well not just Sony, msoft as well. Yall gonna be very dissapointed, imo.
 

Kenpachii

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If your answer here is 64 Ryzen cores at 250 watts and $3990 for the CPU alone, that's a pretty great showing for the IO complex, isn't it? The higher core counts also come with lower per-core performance which is still important to gaming, and besides that almost no one in the addressable gaming market has that. If the answers here are blown up extreme examples of multi thousand dollar solutions for the CPU and SSD alone, that kind of tells me dedicated offload achieving this in a maybe 500 dollar console has some merit.



The fact that you can have an SSD ten times as fast as a HDD but only load a game twice as fast. In your own words, what causes that?



And now with your budget solution you're not offloading check in's, DMAs, compression, and so on, pushing the load back to a more budget CPU...Which is the whole point being worked around. Just like Linus, this is talking around it not being about peak read speed, but end utility.
If your answer here is 64 Ryzen cores at 250 watts and $3990 for the CPU alone
It's not my answer to anything. Dunno what you rambling about. It's what linus uses and what PC has to offer in its best state at this point. It stomps the PS5 no matter if you like it or not. And there are far less costing and less performing CPU's on this front that stomps the PS5 any day.

that's a pretty great showing for the IO complex, isn't it?
Not really, as that 64 core stomps the PS5, io complex on the PS5 is meaningless towards PC.

The higher core counts also come with lower per-core performance which is still important to gaming
Should google ocing, its a thing on PC. even PS5 is starting to realize it.

If the answers here are blown up extreme examples of multi thousand dollar solutions for the CPU and SSD alone, that kind of tells me dedicated offload achieving this in a maybe 500 dollar console has some merit.
Maybe u skipped the part where it absolutely dwarfs the PS5 not even a little bit but 6-7 times on performance. It's basically faster if all cores are used then the whole jump from jaguar to the PS5 imagine that.

And no u don't need this hardware to beat the PS5 so your whole 500 dollar console comparison is just laughable.

The fact that you can have an SSD ten times as fast as a HDD but only load a game twice as fast. In your own words, what causes that?
It's called software not making use of it. U can buy a 64 core cpu, if software doesn't use more hten 4 cores doesn't mean the 64 core is bottlenecked. it means the software simple isn't taking it into account. See easy right?

And now with your budget solution you're not offloading check in's, DMAs, compression, and so on, pushing the load back to a more budget CPU...Which is the whole point being worked around. Just like Linus, this is talking around it not being about peak read speed, but end utility.
PC has ram mate. there is no need for any of this and even then why would PC even bother using the CPU at the end of the day if they did care? they could just let cuda cores do the work at far faster results if they cared about it on top of having ram it will stomp the PS5 at its own game on every level. Through CPU, through GPU or simple through actual ram.

Linus is talking about it in the way that PC would do those tasks and where it could offload the demand towards. But he doesn't care even remotely to go in dept on it because its complete and utterly useless for PC.

Anyway u tried i guess.
 
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Spukc

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1x SSD 825GB
PS5 up to 22GB, avg. 9GB per second

1x Raid Card for $200?
8x 4,000GB m2 a $1,000/ea = $8,200+
28GB/s divided by 8 = 3.5GB/s per m2
(the card has a price tag of $12,000 with the SSD i presume, see post below)


32,000GB harddrive space, 10+times more expensive, yet individually they're still slower, barely beating the SSD of the Xbox Series X.

Let's go one step further, and pretend that the ps5 also has a raid setup with 8x m2 each delivering 5.5GB to 9GB.

8 x 5.5 = 44GB per second
8 x 9.0 = 72GB per second

In other words the ps5 SSD is still faster, individually.
that list reminded me of that southpark dick measurement episode
 
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Kazekage1981

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PC is always going to catch up and be better than console. The End.

The OP is not 'quivering' or having 'sleepless nights' cause of Cerny and June 4th. And if you want PC games to be designed around fast SSD's along with powerful CPUs, and GPUs, it is going to launch a nuclear bomb against anything consoles dare to challenge. Dont even go there …..
 

OSC

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What makes you think CPU Bound is a problem on PC? that's where you case fails. I/O means nothing.

He showcased the fastest SSD solution on PC and that's raw uncompressed, he could slam that 64 ryzen to work to do 6x probably what kraken does + more.

About budgets etc, u can straight up just raid 2 of those 970 evo's of what 90 bucks? and get faster performance then the PS5? or just wait on the 980 to arrive and already be done with 1, which will release before PS5.

No amount of spinning makes the PS5 superior towards PC.
it won't match latency of what are likely asics in the ps5, and it won't match reliability either with raid setups.
Then you need to actually watch the video since Linus is not even getting close to the claimed speeds and latency of the PS5 due to the I/O complex. He averages roughly 1.5GB/sec in the OP video with roughly 1,000ms latency....that is not even close.
this
People actually consider server-hardware part of their console wars now.

They really need to loosen up the lockdown....
and even this has massive latency 1 second of latency. compared to a few microseconds on ps5.
Maybe u skipped the part where it absolutely dwarfs the PS5 not even a little bit but 6-7 times on performance. It's basically faster if all cores are used then the whole jump from jaguar to the PS5 imagine that
Then you need to actually watch the video since Linus is not even getting close to the claimed speeds and latency of the PS5 due to the I/O complex. He averages roughly 1.5GB/sec in the OP video with roughly 1,000ms latency....that is not even close.
 

Romulus

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But optimizing for a closed box with an SSD instead of the shotgun approach
 

loktaiextatus

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On the other hand 30% or so more capable GPU performance can be easily shown in any multiplatform game, if developer would decide so. Simple example: in a game where it maxes ps5 gpu at 2560x1440 resolution, same game can be ran at full 3840x2160 or better yet same resolution but nicer more accurate raytrtacing or draw distance etc.
Wow really. Well good thing its only half that.

10.28 is 85% of 12.15. Its a 15 percent gap.

Equivalently we have like a 30 percent gap between the Xbox One X and the PS4 pro and.... sometimes you get a higher resolution or a better texture filter.
Go watch some digital foundry articles about the differences in multiplats between the PS4 pro and the XOX when thats 4.2 vs 6.0 ... a 30 percent difference.
You think youll run a game that runs at 1440p at full 4k PLUS better draw distance PLUS better raytracing with 15 percent increase in floating point ops?

I hope that works out for you. Because the 30 percent difference between the Pro and the X ended up having to knock Resident evil 3 back down
to the PS4 Pros resolution to level the framerate out.
 
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godhandiscen

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There are also super computers that can outdo next gen consoles. The fact of the matter is that Sony introduced us to next gen with a kickass demo. Let’s hope Microsoft shows us something similarly awesome.

I wish we asked more from these companies instead of defending them vehemently.
 
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geordiemp

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Is this where we are at.

When talking about fastest available for gamers to gamers.....I think that means in the gaming segmment market.

We are talking about 100 million mass market products here FFS.

I am sure there are servers and mainframes out there with I/O that is crazy....whats that got to do with gaming ?

We live in a world of stupidity
 
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Branthrax

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Both matter. People are ignoring the likely better ray tracing capabilities of the XSX due to more CUs and the CPU being steady, while the GPU is running at full clock speed too. People on the other side are ignoring the big SSD advantage and the base of development for PS5.

both have their nice features and both are being downplayed.
Based on what exactly? Anonymous sources? Xbox isn’t going to be much different from their current consoles which already are a breeze to dev for, Scorn dev has already come out and said as much so I really don’t get this narrative.
 

DarkMage619

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Well this could be an SSD that could be used to upgrade the PS5's internal storage. The real question is how much will it cost and how easy will it be to acquire? Based on the answers to those questions we'll really be able to determine which direction was better for storage upgrades between the two consoles.
 

Lanrutcon

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Irrelevant
This hyper technical arms race is pretty pointless though. Yes, you can technically "run" the game on an HDD, but it doesn't matter because it is effectively unplayable. Just as the Honey Badger SSD is technically "faster" than the PS5's SSD but it doesn't matter because it's effectively unaffordable.
But then the PS5's SSD being faster then a normal PC SSD doesn't matter? Hate to break it to you: but all these performance threads are firmly in the "hyper technical arms race" territory. That's what everyone is doing. We're talking shop about our hobby. We're all about the technically.

Edit: I mean, just read this thread for a prime example. All those numbers and tech experts. Oh my!
 
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loktaiextatus

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Of course it's not, this is a bullshit thread if your want to see it from that kiddy shit console wars side.
Also pretty much every component in modern systems is just a stack of something.
It does in fact seem to be multiple instances of a controller with their own memory working either in some kind of interleave stripe or similar to form a pool
like a RAID array avoiding the bottleneck of each controller by stacking them onto the BUS. So youre only limited by the PCIE bus / its interfacing lanes.
 

RaySoft

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Of course it's not, this is a bullshit thread if your want to see it from that kiddy shit console wars side.
Also pretty much every component in modern systems is just a stack of something.
Maybe you should take that up with the thread starter then?
 

SatansReverence

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Why Xbox fans are now hiding behind SSDs which are working in RAID? Prettx much Discord XboxERA members or from Xbox Discord are the same and with same purpose: spreading FUD

Same crap like AORUS SSD with 4 Phison controllers with RAID setup = 15 GB/s read speed.
Enterprise and Data centre components far exceed capability of PS5 after sony and "devs" claim it's better than literally anything available, it MUST be secret xbox discord FUD!!!
 

Rentahamster

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But then the PS5's SSD being faster then a normal PC SSD doesn't matter?
No, it does matter. When you're comparing consumer grade hardware with other consumer grade hardware. Comparing consumer grade hardware to ridiculously unaffordable enterprise grade hardware doesn't matter for most realistic usage case scenarios (but it is interesting).

Hate to break it to you: but all these performance threads are firmly in the "hyper technical arms race" territory. That's what everyone is doing. We're talking shop about our hobby. We're all about the technically.
Yes, I'm talking about the technicality too. The difference is that I'm trying to put it into context into what it means for the average consumer.

Yes, Tim Sweeney was technically wrong in the context of the entire breadth of PC hardware, but he's right in the context of consumer hardware and most mainstream gamers (which is the demographic that is most relevant).

Trying to strip all context out of these statements and numbers for a petty console war gotcha game is stupid and unproductive.
 
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loktaiextatus

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Good to see PC continue to demolish PS5's weak specs.
Its not a "PC" part. its a server part. The machines you';re talking about are likely to have 2, or 4, 16 core 32 thread or better CPUs, 128-512gb of memory, and dual or quad 1000-2000 watt power supplies.

This isnt a "PC" component.