• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

There is no convincing (some) Trump supporters

Status
Not open for further replies.

Noirulus

Member
Sep 14, 2010
6,742
0
805
Canada
You call Gandhi your hero. Here is a man whose contempt for blacks is well known. A man whose racism is so notable and so offensive that Ghanaians have defaced his statue at the University of Ghana and have started a campaign to have it removed completely. A man who described Africans as "savages." A man who abhored the idea of Indians living with blacks, who he thought of as lowly and ignorant. You act concerned about Clinton's superpredator remark while admiring a man who spoke of Africans in a manner not at all dissimilar from the most racist Jim Crower.

You are a hypocrite, and your hypocrisy is massive.

Attacking Gandhi for his racism is missing the point, and this pretty much shows that you don't have a clue who about what kind of man he was. Yes, early on in his life when he was battling for civil rights in South Africa he was racist, but his life is an example of individual growth. This is most famously exemplified by his quote

I know more today than I knew yesterday.

He was a revolutionary freedom fighter, but like all people back then, he was racist. That was the norm back then. However, as he grew older his character and beliefs changed or evolved.

By idolizing Gandhi, you're not following him or taking all of his beliefs at face value. You're questioning your own beliefs and growing as an individual by accepting better truths. Why do you think MLK Jr. revered him so much? Why do you think most people in the world revere him so much? His Satyagraha philosophy is something that appeals to everyone's hearts.

Besides, and please, answer this because I'd like to see this answered:

You're implying that it's okay for Hillary to be racist to someone as long as the other person is racist to someone else. That's monumentally stupid.
 

atr0cious

Member
Jan 15, 2014
8,736
0
0
SF Bay Area
www.twitch.tv
Attacking Gandhi for his racism is missing the point, and this pretty much shows that you don't have a clue who about what kind of man he was. Yes, early on in his life when he was battling for civil rights in South Africa he was racist, but his life is an example of individual growth. This is most famously exemplified by his quote



He was a revolutionary freedom fighter, but like all people back then, he was racist. That was the norm back then. However, as he grew older his character and beliefs changed or evolved.

By idolizing Gandhi, you're not following him or taking all of his beliefs at face value. You're questioning your own beliefs and growing as an individual by accepting better truths. Why do you think MLK Jr. revered him so much? Why do you think most people in the world revere him so much? His Satyagraha philosophy is something that appeals to everyone's hearts.

Besides, and please, answer this because I'd like to see this answered:

You're implying that it's okay for Hillary to be racist to someone as long as the other person is racist to someone else. That's monumentally stupid.
Congrats on proving the premise of the thread. Your lack of self awareness while writing that it is stunning.
 

atr0cious

Member
Jan 15, 2014
8,736
0
0
SF Bay Area
www.twitch.tv
What the hell are you talking about? Elaborate rather than insulting me with a shitpost.
None of what you said made sense, and you tried to pass off your failed logic as him growing personally. Compare this to your claim of Hillary's hatred based off a bad phrase of words and a bad joke. And this doesn't even touch on her actions during those missteps or her constant apologies on the subject. Calling you a hypocrite barely covers it.
 

Spoiled Milk

Banned
Jun 7, 2013
6,878
3
0
Nothing matters except issues. People will talk about how the other side is unqualified (Hillary is a liar, Trump is a racist, Hillary is corrupt, Trump is an idiot) but they really just fundamentally disagree with the other side's platform (or they're politically uninformed, but let's assume some modest level of information). You have to come at it from an issues standpoint.
 

spock

Member
Feb 17, 2007
1,253
0
0
I've spoken to black Trump supporters. Seem to be single issue voter mentality for the most part. Surprisingly it wasnt so much as pro Trump but more anti democrat on gun issues. I dont get the pro gun shit my self but obviously to some its big stuff. Also those in the military seem to have more issues with Hillary,etc.

Personally what I've done in my most recent discussions with Trump supporters is open the discussion with stuff i can agree with or at least understand perspective wise in relation to supporting Trump. I'm a registered independent and try to talk/live along those lines to keep the dialog open. I try to make it seem like I'm undecided, so I'll bring up negatives on Hillary to create even more rapport/agreement. (getting them to say yes in agreement early on is important), than I try to raise questions on Trump through issues they might have a stronger affinity. Do some compare and contrast, but I make it sound like I been asking my self those questions.

Dont start with an attack on them or Trump on the obvious issues/points, such as race, etc. Many Trump supporters are on auto defense for those issues. They'll accuse of falling for media lies or say thats not what Trump said or meant, etc. You need segue into those topics through common ground or some kind of touch point thats strong with them.

The results of the approach hasnt gotten people to completely ditch Trump but it raises questions in their mind and the will look at him more closely. It also lowers their hate of Hillary at least a little bit (shes a hard fucking sell)
 

Noirulus

Member
Sep 14, 2010
6,742
0
805
Canada
None of what you said made sense, and you tried to pass off your failed logic as him growing personally. Compare this to your claim of Hillary's hatred based off a bad phrase of words and a bad joke. And this doesn't even touch on her actions during those missteps or her constant apologies on the subject. Calling you a hypocrite barely covers it.

If you couldn't understand my point about Gandhi that's your inability to understand, not on my logic being bad, because as it is you haven't made a single point telling me why it's wrong or you don't agree. So save the ad hominem attacks.

And yeah, maybe hatred was the wrong term to use to describe her racism but my overall point stands. Her record isn't clean either. And why the fuck isn't that "bad joke" racism? Double fucking standards much?
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
103,711
3
0
36
Nowhere, PA
(shes a hard fucking sell)

Not really. Once you abandon all the bullshit fake scandals and ignore the Republican NoHillary machine that has worked for 25 years straight to discredit her, you realize her worst aspect is she is too secretive about her dealings. Which becomes totally understandable when you see the indisputable bullshit Republicans have put her through all to stop this presidential run. Of course someone in that situation would become more secretive.

So she was a bit clumsy with her emails and she is secretive. Compared to Trump who wont even release his tax returns (and is therefore even worse than Hillary on transparency) and lies every second (Hillary is by far the most honest politician this campaign season, and you can check politifact for your confirmation). And we wont touch the blatant racism, misogyny and xenophobia that defines his campaign.

She is the most experienced candidate of the modern era, and every major political job she has she ends up aquiting herself extremely well. Her colleagues love her (including Republicans who have worked with her), her friends love her (compared to ex-Trump friends who basically say he is a cold hearted fish) and she has had more scrutiny than any candidate in us history over the course of her career. She has risen above that all.

The "hard sell" is only because many people are fucking dumb and fall for bullshit media optics/narrative nonsense.
 

Aaronology

Member
May 12, 2006
5,002
0
0
Chicago
Attacking Gandhi for his racism is missing the point, and this pretty much shows that you don't have a clue who about what kind of man he was. Yes, early on in his life when he was battling for civil rights in South Africa he was racist, but his life is an example of individual growth. This is most famously exemplified by his quote



He was a revolutionary freedom fighter, but like all people back then, he was racist. That was the norm back then. However, as he grew older his character and beliefs changed or evolved.

By idolizing Gandhi, you're not following him or taking all of his beliefs at face value. You're questioning your own beliefs and growing as an individual by accepting better truths. Why do you think MLK Jr. revered him so much? Why do you think most people in the world revere him so much? His Satyagraha philosophy is something that appeals to everyone's hearts.

Besides, and please, answer this because I'd like to see this answered:

You're implying that it's okay for Hillary to be racist to someone as long as the other person is racist to someone else. That's monumentally stupid.
You are open to the idea of someone with an extensive and much more vile history of discrimination exemplified in Gandhi growing and changing into a better person, but dismiss that same sentiment when applied to Hillary Clinton and over a singular and much less controversial remark. You attempt to take me to task for not recognizing the historical context of Gandhi's bigotry while being completely dismissive of the same notion wrt/Clinton in the very next breath. You cite Gandhi's admirable actions to mitigate his absolutely disgusting and heinous racism while completely ignoring (or being ignorant of) the vast body of civil rights advocacy of Clinton, born out of a desire to help others from youth and not out of wizened enlightenment after a lifetime of espousing hate.

I repeat, you are a hypocrite, and you accuse me of missing the point of your post while clearly missing the point of mine. It isn't "okay" for anyone to be racist, Noirulus. Clinton has made mistakes, she has undeniably been racially insensitive over the course of 70+ years on this planet, she deserved to be called out for those instances, she has been called out for them, she has owned up to those gaffes and I believe she has grown from them. Indeed, one of the more admirable aspects of HRC is her willingness to admit her missteps. She does so often and with humility. She isn't perfect, but I believe in the foundation of her character as evidenced in her entire political career spanning more years than I have been alive. I acknowledge her mistakes, but I also recognize that this woman has done more for African Americans in her lifetime than I, as a black man, have done in mine.

And you have the audacity to mention MLK! As if that adds any legitimacy to your hypocrisy. For a good portion of his life, Gandhi would have looked down on such a man, scoffed at the idea of desegregation and much of what Martin Luther King Jr. fought for. But it's MLK and specifically his assassination that set a young Hillary Clinton on the path to becoming the human rights advocate that she is today. Yet Gandhi is your hero, while Clinton you demonize.

To say it a final time, you are a hypocrite.


Edit: And let me be clear, I am not attacking Gandhi. I am attacking your vilification of Hillary Clinton for being racially insensitive while revering a person who was actually racist. I fucking hate people citing the superpredator remark who, in the process, reveal they don't actually give a damn about racism against black people. Don't exploit us as ammo for your bullshit.
 

MC Safety

Member
Jun 9, 2004
12,665
358
1,570
She is the most experienced candidate of the modern era, and every major political job she has she ends up aquiting herself extremely well. Her colleagues love her (including Republicans who have worked with her), her friends love her (compared to ex-Trump friends who basically say he is a cold hearted fish) and she has had more scrutiny than any candidate in us history over the course of her career.

Hillary's a flim-flam artist, from her conversion to a New Yorker to the sham head of the committee for national health care.

People don't remember Hillary's failure, and they're certainly not talking about it. She was appointed to oversee the committee and took the job despite being insanely underqualified. After the fact she admitted failure without taking personal responsibility. I believe the exact quote was "mistakes were made."

You know who doesn't love Hillary? The people who have to work for her. And that speaks volumes, as it does with Trump. The true mark of a person's character is how he treats the people he doesn't have to be nice to.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
103,711
3
0
36
Nowhere, PA
Hillary's a flim-flam artist, from her conversion to a New Yorker to the sham head of the committee for national health care.

Every politician panders to the electorate you are aiming for, welcome to politics. It doesnt change that she remains the most honest candidate this campaign season and it doesnt make her a "flim-flam artist."

MC Safety said:
You know who doesn't love Hillary? The people who have to work for her. And that speaks volumes, as it does with Trump. The true mark of a person's character is how he treats the people he doesn't have to be nice to.

This is nonsense. People who have worked with her or for her are almost overwhelmingly positive about her. Do your best to provide links that demonstrate otherwise, because i have about a zillion links to counter this bullshit claim.

Ive been waiting for the opportunity.
 

Torokil

Member
Apr 6, 2016
1,438
0
0
Raleigh, NC
Not really. Once you abandon all the bullshit fake scandals and ignore the Republican NoHillary machine that has worked for 25 years straight to discredit her, you realize her worst aspect is she is too secretive about her dealings. Which becomes totally understandable when you see the indisputable bullshit Republicans have put her through all to stop this presidential run. Of course someone in that situation would become more secretive.

So she was a bit clumsy with her emails and she is secretive. Compared to Trump who wont even release his tax returns (and is therefore even worse than Hillary on transparency) and lies every second (Hillary is by far the most honest politician this campaign season, and you can check politifact for your confirmation). And we wont touch the blatant racism, misogyny and xenophobia that defines his campaign.

She is the most experienced candidate of the modern era, and every major political job she has she ends up aquiting herself extremely well. Her colleagues love her (including Republicans who have worked with her), her friends love her (compared to ex-Trump friends who basically say he is a cold hearted fish) and she has had more scrutiny than any candidate in us history over the course of her career. She has risen above that all.

The "hard sell" is only because many people are fucking dumb and fall for bullshit media optics/narrative nonsense.

Hillary is a hard sale because, simply put, she's our generations Nixon, for all the good and the bad that implies. And no, I'm not including the bullshit "watergate = emails" thing in that equation.
 

Noirulus

Member
Sep 14, 2010
6,742
0
805
Canada
You are open to the idea of someone with an extensive and much more vile history of discrimination exemplified in Gandhi growing and changing into a better person, but dismiss that same sentiment when applied to Hillary Clinton and over a singular and much less controversial remark. You attempt to take me to task for not recognizing the historical context of Gandhi's bigotry while being completely dismissive of the same notion wrt/Clinton in the very next breath.

Incorrect. Read my post in the previous page.

Who knows, maybe she changed, but people remember. And personally, I don't believe in her integrity.

If you want to get into a conversation about whether or not Hillary has the ability to change, sure, we can get into that, but please stop spouting blatantly incorrect rhetoric such as

You cite Gandhi's admirable actions to mitigate his absolutely disgusting and heinous racism while completely ignoring (or being ignorant of) the vast body of civil rights advocacy of Clinton, born out of a desire to help others from youth and not out of wizened enlightenment after a lifetime of espousing hate.

Are you serious? Gandhi is absolutely not someone who stood for espousing hate. I can't possibly take you seriously after something so blatantly wrong and offensive. His entire philosophy revolves around non-violence, and he completed and put his philosophy into real motion many years after his time in South Africa.

Back to the main topic, I did admit that she might have changed. Where you and I differ, and this is strictly my own opinion, is that I question her integrity and the genuineness of her apologies. It's not hard to see looking back that she just follows whatever rhetoric is popular with the masses (flip flops on Gay marriage, TPP, NAFTA, illegal immigrants, etc) Combine that with the numerous scandals throughout the years and you can see why some people don't trust her. So no, I'm not a hypocrite, Aaronology.

And you have the audacity to mention MLK! As if that adds any legitimacy to your hypocrisy. For a good portion of his life, Gandhi would have looked down on such a man, scoffed at the idea of desegregation and much of what Martin Luther King Jr. fought for. But it's MLK and specifically his assassination that set a young Hillary Clinton on the path to becoming the human rights advocate that she is today. Yet Gandhi is your hero, while Clinton you demonize.

I have the audacity to mention MLK? Of course, Gandhi was a real inspiration for MLK Jr, and he would've absolutely loved and respected MLK Jr following the path of Ahimsa were he alive to witness the Civil Rights movement. You're ignoring the fact that Gandhi was a different man in his later years, when the struggle for freedom from the British became even tougher.
 

Mr. Blonde

Member
Jun 16, 2004
1,382
129
1,590
Wow. You're like twenty something and out of college and still just recently realized trying to change a friends political views is a hopeless task. I'm not sure what to tell you, mimic.
 

Aaronology

Member
May 12, 2006
5,002
0
0
Chicago

Look, this is getting off topic and I honestly have no desire to belabor this discussion. Your personal opinions aren't relevant. The fact is, when Gandhi was my age he was still racist as fuck. You are attempting to hold a single insensitive and poorly worded remark against Clinton wrt/black people while calling a man who spent many years being extremely bigoted towards Africans your "hero."

You have no ground to stand on.
 

Noirulus

Member
Sep 14, 2010
6,742
0
805
Canada
Look, this is getting off topic and I honestly have no desire to belabor this discussion. Your personal opinions aren't relevant. The fact is, when Gandhi was my age he was still racist as fuck. You are attempting to hold a single insensitive and poorly worded remark against Clinton wrt/black people while calling a man who spent many years being extremely bigoted towards Africans your "hero."

You have no ground to stand on.

Again, you ignore my previous post regarding this. Idolizing Gandhi does NOT mean you stand for all of his beliefs or values. If you can't understand this, this conversation is over.
 
Jul 3, 2004
31,255
2
0
Again, you ignore my previous post regarding this. Idolizing Gandhi does NOT mean you stand for all of his beliefs or values. If you can't understand this, this conversation is over.
But the point is analogous to Clinton. They have both said racist shit in the past. You're willing to overlook one person's racism and say they grew, but you look at Clinton doing the same thing and call it dishonest pandering to current cultural norms, based on ???. You're inserting your "gut feelings" as the decider on issues you were trying to discuss logically.
 

Caelus

Member
Jun 19, 2011
4,231
0
565
22
I wouldn't say every Trump supporter is racist.....ignorant? I can back that statement, but yes there are racists that support him, obviously.

There will literally always be exceptions, but I don't get the purpose of pointing that out.
Yes, dear old granny who always votes Republican and doesn't know who Trump might for him despite not being a complete pos racist, but we can make generalizations about Trump supporters as a group due to the nature of his campaign.
 

Aaronology

Member
May 12, 2006
5,002
0
0
Chicago
Again, you ignore my previous post regarding this. Idolizing Gandhi does NOT mean you stand for all of his beliefs or values. If you can't understand this, this conversation is over.
You acknowledge it's possible to support an admired political figure despite extremely vile beliefs they have had in the past in the same topic you claim black people have due cause to abandon such a figure for a relatively minor gaffe decades ago amidst a lifetime of work for the same community.

Are you really this lacking in self awareness, Noirulus? Here, allow me to use your own words in this very topic in response to you.

Double fucking standards much?
 

BinaryPork2737

Unconfirmed Member
Jun 4, 2013
9,293
2
0
some place
I can tell you what GAF 'convincing' looks like to a Trump supporter:

GAF: Why do you support Trump?
Trump supporter: *Gives reasons*
GAF: Bad reasons. You're just racist.

Those reasons usually tend to deflect from the points people tend to criticize Trump for, usually devolving into "make America great again," or "his outreach to the x community is beautiful," or "I just have a gut feeling about him being good presidential material." I'm talking about posts like this, which completely ignore almost everything everyone else was saying in that thread.

Facts have become nigh irrelevant in this election cycle, Trump can do and say almost anything, and people will still cling to him.
 

TaterTots

Banned
Jun 14, 2015
4,199
0
325
There will literally always be exceptions, but I don't get the purpose of pointing that out.
Yes, dear old granny who always votes Republican and doesn't know who Trump might for him despite not being a complete pos racist, but we can make generalizations about Trump supporters as a group due to the nature of his campaign.

Obviously, my point is that I believe most Trump supporters are flat out ignorant. From the people I speak to, I find it hard to believe they are voting due to racism. These people are the type that believe memes on Facebook to be 100% true. So yea, I believe ignorance to be the number 1 reason for his support, not so much racism. Also, I hope we break away from the two party system at some point. People voting straight down a line no matter what is absurd.
 

Noirulus

Member
Sep 14, 2010
6,742
0
805
Canada
You acknowledge it's possible to support an admired political figure despite extremely vile beliefs they have had in the past in the same topic you claim black people have due cause to abandon such a figure for a relatively minor gaffe decades ago amidst a lifetime of work for the same community.

Are you really this lacking in self awareness, Noirulus? Here, allow me to use your own words in this very topic in response to you.

A lifetime of work for the black community? That's the funniest joke I've heard all week.
 

Torokil

Member
Apr 6, 2016
1,438
0
0
Raleigh, NC
In what way(s)? Expand on this, please.

Both have the same weaknesses and strengths as politicians and campaigners.

She's very intelligent and has a sharp grasp on foreign policy (which was also Nixon's best traits, arguably the smartest modern President). Both were undeniably competent and prepared for the job and had been around in D.C. forever. On the flip side. she is not a good campaigner at all (and has next to no charisma, like Nixon) and fails at human interaction and connection at the way her peers do. Both of them were perceived as having pessimistic centrists politics (things like "Single Payer will never pass" doesn't stop this perception). Part of this was that Nixon as senator in Cali was known to work with the a lot left (pretty much why Eisenhower picked him as VP) just as Hillary worked a lot with the right during her senate run.

I don't see how the parallels aren't obvious. She's a mirror image, left where he was right. I don't think this was a bad thing, Nixon was much better than history says, and I sure as hell would vote for him over George Wallace (sorry Humphreys!).
 

Aaronology

Member
May 12, 2006
5,002
0
0
Chicago
A lifetime of work for the black community? That's the funniest joke I've heard all week.

You should get out more. ontheissues.org:

HILLARY CLINTON ON...





  • ...CIVIL RIGHTS
  • Fight systemic racism in education & employment. (Feb 2016)
  • Root out systemic racism exposed by social media. (Feb 2016)
  • After 200 presidential debates, female majority on stage. (Feb 2016)
  • No Ceilings: worldwide full equal education for girls. (Apr 2015)
  • Women in Public Service Project: 50% of officials by 2050. (Nov 2013)
  • 1998: Hillary predicted female President in near future. (Oct 2007)
  • 1962: met MLK Jr. preaching a sermon in Chicago. (Jul 2007)
  • 1995: Politely criticized China’s human rights. (Jun 2007)
  • Developmental thread: tragedy of race must be made right. (Jun 2007)
  • Pushing for privacy bill of rights. (Jun 2006)
  • Professional woman AND hostess; feminist AND traditionalist. (Nov 2003)
  • Crack down on sex trafficking of women and girls. (Jan 2000)
  • Human rights are women’s rights. (Jan 2000)
  • Women’s rights are human rights. (Dec 1999)
  • Support National Endowment for the Arts. (Feb 1997)
  • Sex selection, prostitution & war rape: human rights issues. (Sep 1995)
  • Women's suffrage was 72-year struggle, but not a shot fired. (Sep 1993)


    ...AFFIRMATION ACTION
  • Fight systemic racism in education & employment. (Feb 2016)
  • Will fight for minorities, immigrants, & women's rights. (Feb 2016)
  • Unleash the full potential of women and girls. (Feb 2016)
  • We need a New Deal for Communities of Color. (Oct 2015)
  • OpEd: "18 million cracks" meant "lingering sexism". (Aug 2009)
  • Heads movement of women looking to America's true promise. (Aug 2009)
  • Equal pay is not yet equal. (Jan 2008)
  • MLK recognized that working within the system was necessary. (Jan 2008)
  • Compiled “Handbook on Legal Rights for Arkansas Women”. (Nov 2007)
  • Hillary wanted Bill’s cabinet to “Look Like America”. (Oct 2007)
  • Founded Vital Voices Initiative with Madeleine Albright. (Sep 2007)
  • 1965: brought black classmates to all-white church. (Jul 2007)
  • We’ve come a long way on race, but we have a long way to go. (Jun 2007)
  • 1988: Instituted gender diversity Report Card within ABA. (Jun 2007)
  • Create a pipeline for more women in leadership. (Oct 2005)
  • 1972: Worked with Edelman on school desegregation in South. (Nov 2003)
  • Apologize for slavery, but concentrate on civil rights now. (Oct 2000)
  • First chair of ABA Commission on Women and the Profession. (Aug 1999)
  • Raised issues of gender compensation gap at 1970s Rose Law. (Nov 1997)
  • Affirmative living: involve entire village against racism. (Sep 1996)



Hillary Clinton's commitment to civil rights
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/civil-rights/218382-hillary-clintons-commitment-to-civil-rights
While in the Senate, she introduced the Count Every Vote Act of 2007 to combat a "history of intimidation." Fighting against voter ID laws, Clinton said that "By trying to require not just photo identification but proof of citizenship — proof that thousands of American citizens can't produce through no fault of their own — cynical Republican lawmakers are trying to build new walls between hundreds of thousands of eligible senior, minority, and low-income Americans and their civil right to choose their own leaders. Republicans claim that these requirements are needed to prevent fraud, but the reality is that they do little more than disenfranchise eligible voters."

Hillary Clinton in the Civil Rights Era
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/3/4/1495575/-Hillary-Clinton-in-the-Civil-Rights-Era

Hillary Clinton leading a 1968 student protest to increase African-American admissions at Wellesley College, following the assassination of Martin Luther King. Clinton met King in Chicago in 1962, when she was 14.

...

Also at age 20, she denounced the Republican Party as being racist, after she attended the RNC convention in Miami and saw Richard Nixon's supporters attack, sometimes physically, supporters of moderate Republican Nelson Rockefeller, who stood on the old guard Party of Lincoln platform. Nixon threw that one out with his Southern Strategy that swept the racist southern Democrats off their feet for the GOP.

At age 21, unknown Hillary Clinton made headlines. She and her speech were featured in a Life Magazine article about the activist ideals of the class of 1969. She had led protests to protect black civil rights. She had accomplished civil rights goals. She advocated active civil disobedience to better African-American lives, to make the changes that passive compliance and blind trust had failed to make.

[Hillary Clinton] urged President Obama to push harder against homophobic regimes in Africa.
http://www.newnownext.com/8-times-hillary-clinton-was-a-champion-of-lgbt-equality/02/2016/
While outlets like Fox News attacked Clinton about “hiding” emails, there was actually some good that surfaced: One leaked message revealed she pushed the Obama Administration to press leaders in Africa to change their anti-LGBT policies.

It was not a safe position, either: As Clinton revealed in her memoir, Hard Choices, after she confronted Uganda’s President Yoweri Museveni about gay rights, he ridiculed my concerns.”

“Like many people in Uganda and around the world, I was appalled that the police and government had done little to protect [murdered activist] David [Cato] after public calls for his murder,” she wrote. “It was the result of a nationwide campaign to suppress LGBT people by any means necessary, and the government was part of it.”

Hillary Clinton's Agenda for Black America
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/hillary-clintons-agenda-for-black-america/478110/
To that end, she pledged to spend $125 billion as part of a “breaking every barrier” agenda, including $25 billion for programs to help young people and ex-prisoners find jobs. She decried the response to the lead poisoning in Flint, Michigan, which she said “would never have happened in a wealthy suburb of Detroit.” Clinton said she would set a national goal of eliminating lead as a major public-health threat within five years.

Introducing Clinton, Sharpton noted their long alliance but reminded the crowd that he had not endorsed any candidate yet. Instead, he said he wanted to hear specifics, “not a sound bite,” from the candidates. “Black America must be taken seriously,” he said. “We must be taken seriously, because no one can win unless we vote seriously in November.”

In that respect, Clinton gave Sharpton exactly what he wanted. Acknowledging during the middle of her remarks that she was getting pretty wonky, Clinton appeared to ad-lib: “The Reverend asked me to be substantive. Well, I’m giving it to ya. Because, you know what? When somebody asks for your vote, they should tell you what they’re going to do, not what they hope to do.”

How Hillary Clinton Went Undercover to Examine Race in Education
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/28/us/politics/how-hillary-clinton-went-undercover-to-examine-race-in-education.html
In summer 1972, Mr. Clinton was in Miami working on George McGovern’s presidential campaign when Mrs. Clinton traveled from Washington to Atlanta to meet with civil rights lawyers and activists, then rented a car and drove the nearly four hours to Dothan.

...

She drove over the railroad tracks near downtown, east of Park Avenue, to the black part of town. There, she met local contacts who told her over a lunch of sweetened ice tea and burgers “that many of the school districts in the area were draining local public schools of books and equipment to send to the so-called academies, which they viewed as the alternatives for white students,” she wrote in “Living History.”

Years later, Mrs. Clinton does not say she ever felt afraid, but a white woman traveling alone in the South would have been “looking over her shoulder,” said Marlene Provizer, who did similar research into segregation academies in Mississippi and Georgia in the same era.

“There weren’t many folks doing this work,” she said. “I was very conscious of being ‘the other.’ ”

This Is The Robust Civil Rights History of Hillary Clinton
http://killingthebreeze.com/this-is-the-robust-civil-rights-history-of-hillary-clinton/
Voter ID
While in the Senate, Hillary Clinton introduced the Count Every Vote Act of 2005 to combat a “history of intimidation.” Fighting against voter ID laws, Clinton said that:

“By trying to require not just photo identification but proof of citizenship — proof that thousands of American citizens can’t produce through no fault of their own — cynical Republican lawmakers are trying to build new walls between hundreds of thousands of eligible senior, minority, and low-income Americans and their civil right to choose their own leaders. Republicans claim that these requirements are needed to prevent fraud, but the reality is that they do little more than disenfranchise eligible voters.”

Equality Under The Law

Hillary co-sponsored a bill recognizing Juneteenth as the historical end of slavery. The resolution recognized the historical significance of Juneteenth Independence Day and expressed that history should be regarded as a means for understanding the past and solving the challenges of the future. Recognizing the historical significance to the nation, and supporting the continued celebration of Juneteenth Independence Day (June 19, 1865, the day Union soldiers arrived in Galveston, Texas, with news that the Civil War had ended and that the enslaved African Americans were free), Congress passed it declaring the celebration of the end of slavery is an important and enriching part of the history and heritage of the United States.

Clinton also co-sponsored a bill reinforcing anti-discrimination and equal-pay requirements; specifically, to restore, reaffirm, and reconcile legal rights and remedies under civil rights statutes. The bill amended the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to establish discrimination based on disparate impact; and rights of action and recovery for unlawful discrimination. It also authorized civil actions in federal court for discrimination based on disability, and repealed provisions limiting the amount of compensatory and punitive damages that may be awarded in cases of intentional discrimination in employment. Finally, it revised provisions governing discrimination in the payment of wages, including equal pay requirements.
 

Aaronology

Member
May 12, 2006
5,002
0
0
Chicago
Both have the same weaknesses and strengths as politicians and campaigners.

She's very intelligent and has a sharp grasp on foreign policy (which was also Nixon's best traits, arguably the smartest modern President). Both were undeniably competent and prepared for the job and had been around in D.C. forever. On the flip side. she is not a good campaigner at all (and has next to no charisma, like Nixon) and fails at human interaction and connection at the way her peers do. Both of them were perceived as having pessimistic centrists politics (things like "Single Payer will never pass" doesn't stop this perception). Part of this was that Nixon as senator in Cali was known to work with the a lot left (pretty much why Eisenhower picked him as VP) just as Hillary worked a lot with the right during her senate run.

I don't see how the parallels aren't obvious. She's a mirror image, left where he was right. I don't think this was a bad thing, Nixon was much better than history says, and I sure as hell would vote for him over George Wallace (sorry Humphreys!).
Not obvious to me because I'm not intimately familiar with Nixon. Before my time syndrome. Thanks for elaborating.
 

Mr_Appleby

Member
Mar 21, 2008
3,940
0
995
An acquaintance of mine supports trump because he doesn't lie, ain't afraid to say what needs to be said, is self made and not beholden to the rothchilds, won't start WWIII, and also because Hilary is a reptilian.

I wish I was joking.
 
Nov 10, 2005
32,159
25
0
Attacking Gandhi for his racism is missing the point, and this pretty much shows that you don't have a clue who about what kind of man he was. Yes, early on in his life when he was battling for civil rights in South Africa he was racist, but his life is an example of individual growth. This is most famously exemplified by his quote



He was a revolutionary freedom fighter, but like all people back then, he was racist. That was the norm back then. However, as he grew older his character and beliefs changed or evolved.

By idolizing Gandhi, you're not following him or taking all of his beliefs at face value. You're questioning your own beliefs and growing as an individual by accepting better truths. Why do you think MLK Jr. revered him so much? Why do you think most people in the world revere him so much? His Satyagraha philosophy is something that appeals to everyone's hearts.

Besides, and please, answer this because I'd like to see this answered:

You're implying that it's okay for Hillary to be racist to someone as long as the other person is racist to someone else. That's monumentally stupid.

Is there an amount of effort that Hillary could engage that would make you adequately convinced that she regrets what she said and done and is trying to make up for them?
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
103,711
3
0
36
Nowhere, PA

Damn that is murder right here lol. Good shit. Awesome post.
 

Future

Member
Aug 5, 2004
9,467
151
1,305
You gotta be pretty stubborn in general to rally for trump. His mantra is shitting down dissent and discussion about other shit. "Make America great" is simply ignore all this new way of thinking and go back to the roots
 

BinaryPork2737

Unconfirmed Member
Jun 4, 2013
9,293
2
0
some place
An acquaintance of mine supports trump because he doesn't lie, ain't afraid to say what needs to be said, is self made and not beholden to the rothchilds, won't start WWIII, and also because Hilary is a reptilian.

I wish I was joking.

Reptilian/alien-overlord conspiracy theorists are some of the worst people I've ever dealt with when it comes to being convinced about anything besides their personal conspiracy of choice. Anything that goes against their conspiracy automatically turns into propaganda meant to brainwash people. It feels surreal interacting with those kind of people in real life.
 

Paskil

Member
Feb 20, 2013
6,906
0
0
Wisconsin
I started my first attacks on a close Bernie or Buster on Friday. She believes the Hillary health thing and that she is corrupt. I got her to watch the Between Two Ferns clip and we talked about her supposed fatal flaws. I attacked some of her misconceptions about Hillary that she was incorrectly accepting as fact because they have been reinforced enough times. For reference, she is a staunch liberal and would never vote Trump.

I think with some continued chipping attacks, I can convert her into a Hillary voter.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Hillary Clinton. That's my line of attack. Cold, stainless logic and suspension of incredulously hazy dissent.
 

TaterTots

Banned
Jun 14, 2015
4,199
0
325
An acquaintance of mine supports trump because he doesn't lie, ain't afraid to say what needs to be said, is self made and not beholden to the rothchilds, won't start WWIII, and also because Hilary is a reptilian.

I wish I was joking.

I can do better....my boss is voting for Trump because she believes most people are voting for Clinton because she is a woman. She then told me that the days of women being held back are over and there is no need to put a woman into office....That's it. Nothing more..nothing less. She is an pharmacist who is doing, obviously well for herself. She believes the "opportunity" is there for everyone and people need to stop making excuses and put in the work.
 
Nov 11, 2008
41,226
2
0
G/A/F
Dec 6, 2008
21,906
0
0
Here's what Trump has done for the black community

...

..

.

Actually

1. Refuse to rent to black tenants

2. Call for the death penalty (took out a full page ad) of 5 black teens, when they were later acquitted refused to apologize.

3. Not to mention the black contractors he stiffed over his life.
 

NeonBlack

Member
Jan 25, 2015
3,981
0
0
An acquaintance of mine supports trump because he doesn't lie, ain't afraid to say what needs to be said, is self made and not beholden to the rothchilds, won't start WWIII, and also because Hilary is a reptilian.

I wish I was joking.

How could he believe that? Reptilians aren't allowed into the Illuminati.
 
Nov 10, 2005
32,159
25
0
Actually

1. Refuse to rent to black tenants

2. Call for the death penalty (took out a full page ad) of 5 black teens, when they were later acquitted refused to apologize.

3. Not to mention the black contractors he stiffed over his life.

For the black community, not to :p

Also, you were playing some softball with the second one. He didn't just refuse to apologize, he said they were probably up to no good anyway.
 

RoyaleDuke

Banned
Apr 7, 2014
5,539
0
0
Evans, Colorado
I was having a conversation with someone the other day, the thing is when someone refuses to acknowledge the campaign of hatred filled rhetoric and refutes it by saying "WHERE IS THE PROOF HE IS RACIST" "YOU ARE WRONG UNLESS YOU CAN PROVIDE PROOF" even when you provide them with proof.

Yeah, well.

You can't fix stupid.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.