Underrated post lmao
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There is no convincing (some) Trump supporters
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Underrated post lmao
Attacking Gandhi for his racism is missing the point, and this pretty much shows that you don't have a clue who about what kind of man he was. Yes, early on in his life when he was battling for civil rights in South Africa he was racist, but his life is an example of individual growth. This is most famously exemplified by his quote
He was a revolutionary freedom fighter, but like all people back then, he was racist. That was the norm back then. However, as he grew older his character and beliefs changed or evolved.
By idolizing Gandhi, you're not following him or taking all of his beliefs at face value. You're questioning your own beliefs and growing as an individual by accepting better truths. Why do you think MLK Jr. revered him so much? Why do you think most people in the world revere him so much? His Satyagraha philosophy is something that appeals to everyone's hearts.
Besides, and please, answer this because I'd like to see this answered:
You're implying that it's okay for Hillary to be racist to someone as long as the other person is racist to someone else. That's monumentally stupid.
Congrats on proving the premise of the thread. Your lack of self awareness while writing that it is stunning.
What the hell are you talking about? Elaborate rather than insulting me with a shitpost.
None of what you said made sense, and you tried to pass off your failed logic as him growing personally. Compare this to your claim of Hillary's hatred based off a bad phrase of words and a bad joke. And this doesn't even touch on her actions during those missteps or her constant apologies on the subject. Calling you a hypocrite barely covers it.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Nothing matters except issues. People will talk about how the other side is unqualified (Hillary is a liar, Trump is a racist, Hillary is corrupt, Trump is an idiot) but they really just fundamentally disagree with the other side's platform (or they're politically uninformed, but let's assume some modest level of information). You have to come at it from an issues standpoint.
pretty much this.
I've spoken to black Trump supporters. Seem to be single issue voter mentality for the most part. Surprisingly it wasnt so much as pro Trump but more anti democrat on gun issues. I dont get the pro gun shit my self but obviously to some its big stuff. Also those in the military seem to have more issues with Hillary,etc.
Personally what I've done in my most recent discussions with Trump supporters is open the discussion with stuff i can agree with or at least understand perspective wise in relation to supporting Trump. I'm a registered independent and try to talk/live along those lines to keep the dialog open. I try to make it seem like I'm undecided, so I'll bring up negatives on Hillary to create even more rapport/agreement. (getting them to say yes in agreement early on is important), than I try to raise questions on Trump through issues they might have a stronger affinity. Do some compare and contrast, but I make it sound like I been asking my self those questions.
Dont start with an attack on them or Trump on the obvious issues/points, such as race, etc. Many Trump supporters are on auto defense for those issues. They'll accuse of falling for media lies or say thats not what Trump said or meant, etc. You need segue into those topics through common ground or some kind of touch point thats strong with them.
The results of the approach hasnt gotten people to completely ditch Trump but it raises questions in their mind and the will look at him more closely. It also lowers their hate of Hillary at least a little bit (shes a hard fucking sell)
Personally what I've done in my most recent discussions with Trump supporters is open the discussion with stuff i can agree with or at least understand perspective wise in relation to supporting Trump. I'm a registered independent and try to talk/live along those lines to keep the dialog open. I try to make it seem like I'm undecided, so I'll bring up negatives on Hillary to create even more rapport/agreement. (getting them to say yes in agreement early on is important), than I try to raise questions on Trump through issues they might have a stronger affinity. Do some compare and contrast, but I make it sound like I been asking my self those questions.
Dont start with an attack on them or Trump on the obvious issues/points, such as race, etc. Many Trump supporters are on auto defense for those issues. They'll accuse of falling for media lies or say thats not what Trump said or meant, etc. You need segue into those topics through common ground or some kind of touch point thats strong with them.
The results of the approach hasnt gotten people to completely ditch Trump but it raises questions in their mind and the will look at him more closely. It also lowers their hate of Hillary at least a little bit (shes a hard fucking sell)
If you couldn't understand my point about Gandhi that's your inability to understand, not on my logic being bad, because as it is you haven't made a single point telling me why it's wrong or you don't agree. So save the ad hominem attacks.
And yeah, maybe hatred was the wrong term to use to describe her racism but my overall point stands. Her record isn't clean either. And why the fuck isn't that "bad joke" racism? Double fucking standards much?
Not really. Once you abandon all the bullshit fake scandals and ignore the Republican NoHillary machine that has worked for 25 years straight to discredit her, you realize her worst aspect is she is too secretive about her dealings. Which becomes totally understandable when you see the indisputable bullshit Republicans have put her through all to stop this presidential run. Of course someone in that situation would become more secretive.
So she was a bit clumsy with her emails and she is secretive. Compared to Trump who wont even release his tax returns (and is therefore even worse than Hillary on transparency) and lies every second (Hillary is by far the most honest politician this campaign season, and you can check politifact for your confirmation). And we wont touch the blatant racism, misogyny and xenophobia that defines his campaign.
She is the most experienced candidate of the modern era, and every major political job she has she ends up aquiting herself extremely well. Her colleagues love her (including Republicans who have worked with her), her friends love her (compared to ex-Trump friends who basically say he is a cold hearted fish) and she has had more scrutiny than any candidate in us history over the course of her career. She has risen above that all.
The "hard sell" is only because many people are fucking dumb and fall for bullshit media optics/narrative nonsense.
Aaronology
Member
You are open to the idea of someone with an extensive and much more vile history of discrimination exemplified in Gandhi growing and changing into a better person, but dismiss that same sentiment when applied to Hillary Clinton and over a singular and much less controversial remark. You attempt to take me to task for not recognizing the historical context of Gandhi's bigotry while being completely dismissive of the same notion wrt/Clinton in the very next breath. You cite Gandhi's admirable actions to mitigate his absolutely disgusting and heinous racism while completely ignoring (or being ignorant of) the vast body of civil rights advocacy of Clinton, born out of a desire to help others from youth and not out of wizened enlightenment after a lifetime of espousing hate.
I repeat, you are a hypocrite, and you accuse me of missing the point of your post while clearly missing the point of mine. It isn't "okay" for anyone to be racist, Noirulus. Clinton has made mistakes, she has undeniably been racially insensitive over the course of 70+ years on this planet, she deserved to be called out for those instances, she has been called out for them, she has owned up to those gaffes and I believe she has grown from them. Indeed, one of the more admirable aspects of HRC is her willingness to admit her missteps. She does so often and with humility. She isn't perfect, but I believe in the foundation of her character as evidenced in her entire political career spanning more years than I have been alive. I acknowledge her mistakes, but I also recognize that this woman has done more for African Americans in her lifetime than I, as a black man, have done in mine.
And you have the audacity to mention MLK! As if that adds any legitimacy to your hypocrisy. For a good portion of his life, Gandhi would have looked down on such a man, scoffed at the idea of desegregation and much of what Martin Luther King Jr. fought for. But it's MLK and specifically his assassination that set a young Hillary Clinton on the path to becoming the human rights advocate that she is today. Yet Gandhi is your hero, while Clinton you demonize.
To say it a final time, you are a hypocrite.
Edit: And let me be clear, I am not attacking Gandhi. I am attacking your vilification of Hillary Clinton for being racially insensitive while revering a person who was actually racist. I fucking hate people citing the superpredator remark who, in the process, reveal they don't actually give a damn about racism against black people. Don't exploit us as ammo for your bullshit.
Hillary's a flim-flam artist, from her conversion to a New Yorker to the sham head of the committee for national health care.
People don't remember Hillary's failure, and they're certainly not talking about it. She was appointed to oversee the committee and took the job despite being insanely underqualified. After the fact she admitted failure without taking personal responsibility. I believe the exact quote was "mistakes were made."
You know who doesn't love Hillary? The people who have to work for her. And that speaks volumes, as it does with Trump. The true mark of a person's character is how he treats the people he doesn't have to be nice to.
Every politician panders to the electorate you are aiming for, welcome to politics. It doesnt change that she remains the most honest candidate this campaign season and it doesnt make her a "flim-flam artist."
MC Safety said:
This is nonsense. People who have worked with her or for her are almost overwhelmingly positive about her. Do your best to provide links that demonstrate otherwise, because i have about a zillion links to counter this bullshit claim.
Ive been waiting for the opportunity.
Hillary is a hard sale because, simply put, she's our generations Nixon, for all the good and the bad that implies. And no, I'm not including the bullshit "watergate = emails" thing in that equation.
Aaronology
Member
In what way(s)? Expand on this, please.
Incorrect. Read my post in the previous page.
If you want to get into a conversation about whether or not Hillary has the ability to change, sure, we can get into that, but please stop spouting blatantly incorrect rhetoric such as
Are you serious? Gandhi is absolutely not someone who stood for espousing hate. I can't possibly take you seriously after something so blatantly wrong and offensive. His entire philosophy revolves around non-violence, and he completed and put his philosophy into real motion many years after his time in South Africa.
Back to the main topic, I did admit that she might have changed. Where you and I differ, and this is strictly my own opinion, is that I question her integrity and the genuineness of her apologies. It's not hard to see looking back that she just follows whatever rhetoric is popular with the masses (flip flops on Gay marriage, TPP, NAFTA, illegal immigrants, etc) Combine that with the numerous scandals throughout the years and you can see why some people don't trust her. So no, I'm not a hypocrite, Aaronology.
I have the audacity to mention MLK? Of course, Gandhi was a real inspiration for MLK Jr, and he would've absolutely loved and respected MLK Jr following the path of Ahimsa were he alive to witness the Civil Rights movement. You're ignoring the fact that Gandhi was a different man in his later years, when the struggle for freedom from the British became even tougher.
Mr. Blonde
Member
Wow. You're like twenty something and out of college and still just recently realized trying to change a friends political views is a hopeless task. I'm not sure what to tell you, mimic.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
Stupid recognizes stupid.
Aaronology
Member
Look, this is getting off topic and I honestly have no desire to belabor this discussion. Your personal opinions aren't relevant. The fact is, when Gandhi was my age he was still racist as fuck. You are attempting to hold a single insensitive and poorly worded remark against Clinton wrt/black people while calling a man who spent many years being extremely bigoted towards Africans your "hero."
You have no ground to stand on.
Again, you ignore my previous post regarding this. Idolizing Gandhi does NOT mean you stand for all of his beliefs or values. If you can't understand this, this conversation is over.
I wouldn't say every Trump supporter is racist.....ignorant? I can back that statement, but yes there are racists that support him, obviously.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
But the point is analogous to Clinton. They have both said racist shit in the past. You're willing to overlook one person's racism and say they grew, but you look at Clinton doing the same thing and call it dishonest pandering to current cultural norms, based on ???. You're inserting your "gut feelings" as the decider on issues you were trying to discuss logically.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
She's no Gandhi!
There will literally always be exceptions, but I don't get the purpose of pointing that out.
Yes, dear old granny who always votes Republican and doesn't know who Trump might for him despite not being a complete pos racist, but we can make generalizations about Trump supporters as a group due to the nature of his campaign.
Aaronology
Member
You acknowledge it's possible to support an admired political figure despite extremely vile beliefs they have had in the past in the same topic you claim black people have due cause to abandon such a figure for a relatively minor gaffe decades ago amidst a lifetime of work for the same community.
Are you really this lacking in self awareness, Noirulus? Here, allow me to use your own words in this very topic in response to you.
BinaryPork2737
Unconfirmed Member
Those reasons usually tend to deflect from the points people tend to criticize Trump for, usually devolving into "make America great again," or "his outreach to the x community is beautiful," or "I just have a gut feeling about him being good presidential material." I'm talking about posts like this, which completely ignore almost everything everyone else was saying in that thread.
Facts have become nigh irrelevant in this election cycle, Trump can do and say almost anything, and people will still cling to him.
Obviously, my point is that I believe most Trump supporters are flat out ignorant. From the people I speak to, I find it hard to believe they are voting due to racism. These people are the type that believe memes on Facebook to be 100% true. So yea, I believe ignorance to be the number 1 reason for his support, not so much racism. Also, I hope we break away from the two party system at some point. People voting straight down a line no matter what is absurd.
A lifetime of work for the black community? That's the funniest joke I've heard all week.
Both have the same weaknesses and strengths as politicians and campaigners.
She's very intelligent and has a sharp grasp on foreign policy (which was also Nixon's best traits, arguably the smartest modern President). Both were undeniably competent and prepared for the job and had been around in D.C. forever. On the flip side. she is not a good campaigner at all (and has next to no charisma, like Nixon) and fails at human interaction and connection at the way her peers do. Both of them were perceived as having pessimistic centrists politics (things like "Single Payer will never pass" doesn't stop this perception). Part of this was that Nixon as senator in Cali was known to work with the a lot left (pretty much why Eisenhower picked him as VP) just as Hillary worked a lot with the right during her senate run.
I don't see how the parallels aren't obvious. She's a mirror image, left where he was right. I don't think this was a bad thing, Nixon was much better than history says, and I sure as hell would vote for him over George Wallace (sorry Humphreys!).
Aaronology
Member
You should get out more. ontheissues.org:
Hillary Clinton's commitment to civil rights
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/civil-rights/218382-hillary-clintons-commitment-to-civil-rights
Hillary Clinton in the Civil Rights Era
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/3/4/1495575/-Hillary-Clinton-in-the-Civil-Rights-Era
Hillary Clinton leading a 1968 student protest to increase African-American admissions at Wellesley College, following the assassination of Martin Luther King. Clinton met King in Chicago in 1962, when she was 14.
...
Also at age 20, she denounced the Republican Party as being racist, after she attended the RNC convention in Miami and saw Richard Nixon's supporters attack, sometimes physically, supporters of moderate Republican Nelson Rockefeller, who stood on the old guard Party of Lincoln platform. Nixon threw that one out with his Southern Strategy that swept the racist southern Democrats off their feet for the GOP.
At age 21, unknown Hillary Clinton made headlines. She and her speech were featured in a Life Magazine article about the activist ideals of the class of 1969. She had led protests to protect black civil rights. She had accomplished civil rights goals. She advocated active civil disobedience to better African-American lives, to make the changes that passive compliance and blind trust had failed to make.
[Hillary Clinton] urged President Obama to push harder against homophobic regimes in Africa.
http://www.newnownext.com/8-times-hillary-clinton-was-a-champion-of-lgbt-equality/02/2016/
Hillary Clinton's Agenda for Black America
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/hillary-clintons-agenda-for-black-america/478110/
How Hillary Clinton Went Undercover to Examine Race in Education
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/28/us/politics/how-hillary-clinton-went-undercover-to-examine-race-in-education.html
This Is The Robust Civil Rights History of Hillary Clinton
http://killingthebreeze.com/this-is-the-robust-civil-rights-history-of-hillary-clinton/
Aaronology
Member
Not obvious to me because I'm not intimately familiar with Nixon. Before my time syndrome. Thanks for elaborating.
Mr_Appleby
Member
An acquaintance of mine supports trump because he doesn't lie, ain't afraid to say what needs to be said, is self made and not beholden to the rothchilds, won't start WWIII, and also because Hilary is a reptilian.
I wish I was joking.
I wish I was joking.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Is there an amount of effort that Hillary could engage that would make you adequately convinced that she regrets what she said and done and is trying to make up for them?
You should get out more. ontheissues.org:
Hillary Clinton's commitment to civil rights
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/civil-rights/218382-hillary-clintons-commitment-to-civil-rights
Hillary Clinton in the Civil Rights Era
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/3/4/1495575/-Hillary-Clinton-in-the-Civil-Rights-Era
[Hillary Clinton] urged President Obama to push harder against homophobic regimes in Africa.
http://www.newnownext.com/8-times-hillary-clinton-was-a-champion-of-lgbt-equality/02/2016/
Hillary Clinton's Agenda for Black America
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/hillary-clintons-agenda-for-black-america/478110/
How Hillary Clinton Went Undercover to Examine Race in Education
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/28/us/politics/how-hillary-clinton-went-undercover-to-examine-race-in-education.html
This Is The Robust Civil Rights History of Hillary Clinton
http://killingthebreeze.com/this-is-the-robust-civil-rights-history-of-hillary-clinton/
Damn that is murder right here lol. Good shit. Awesome post.
BinaryPork2737
Unconfirmed Member
Reptilian/alien-overlord conspiracy theorists are some of the worst people I've ever dealt with when it comes to being convinced about anything besides their personal conspiracy of choice. Anything that goes against their conspiracy automatically turns into propaganda meant to brainwash people. It feels surreal interacting with those kind of people in real life.
I started my first attacks on a close Bernie or Buster on Friday. She believes the Hillary health thing and that she is corrupt. I got her to watch the Between Two Ferns clip and we talked about her supposed fatal flaws. I attacked some of her misconceptions about Hillary that she was incorrectly accepting as fact because they have been reinforced enough times. For reference, she is a staunch liberal and would never vote Trump.
I think with some continued chipping attacks, I can convert her into a Hillary voter.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Hillary Clinton. That's my line of attack. Cold, stainless logic and suspension of incredulously hazy dissent.
I think with some continued chipping attacks, I can convert her into a Hillary voter.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Hillary Clinton. That's my line of attack. Cold, stainless logic and suspension of incredulously hazy dissent.
I can do better....my boss is voting for Trump because she believes most people are voting for Clinton because she is a woman. She then told me that the days of women being held back are over and there is no need to put a woman into office....That's it. Nothing more..nothing less. She is an pharmacist who is doing, obviously well for herself. She believes the "opportunity" is there for everyone and people need to stop making excuses and put in the work.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
You should get out more. ontheissues.org:
Hillary Clinton's commitment to civil rights
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/civil-rights/218382-hillary-clintons-commitment-to-civil-rights
Hillary Clinton in the Civil Rights Era
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/3/4/1495575/-Hillary-Clinton-in-the-Civil-Rights-Era
[Hillary Clinton] urged President Obama to push harder against homophobic regimes in Africa.
http://www.newnownext.com/8-times-hillary-clinton-was-a-champion-of-lgbt-equality/02/2016/
Hillary Clinton's Agenda for Black America
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/hillary-clintons-agenda-for-black-america/478110/
How Hillary Clinton Went Undercover to Examine Race in Education
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/28/us/politics/how-hillary-clinton-went-undercover-to-examine-race-in-education.html
This Is The Robust Civil Rights History of Hillary Clinton
http://killingthebreeze.com/this-is-the-robust-civil-rights-history-of-hillary-clinton/
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Actually
1. Refuse to rent to black tenants
2. Call for the death penalty (took out a full page ad) of 5 black teens, when they were later acquitted refused to apologize.
3. Not to mention the black contractors he stiffed over his life.
How could he believe that? Reptilians aren't allowed into the Illuminati.
A Link to the Past
Banned
For the black community, not to
Also, you were playing some softball with the second one. He didn't just refuse to apologize, he said they were probably up to no good anyway.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
For the black community, not to
Also, you were playing some softball with the second one. He didn't just refuse to apologize, he said they were probably up to no good anyway.
To be fair, they ARE black..
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Good to see Trump's racist statements decades ago are now the comprehensive Republican opinion on police killing black men.For the black community, not to
Also, you were playing some softball with the second one. He didn't just refuse to apologize, he said they were probably up to no good anyway.
Don't put words in his mouth you, $hillary fanboy. He definitely means Pluto, the guy from the Popeye cartoon.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
A Link to the Past
Banned
so are you
Shake Appeal
Member
These two things are incompatible, I'm afraid.
RoyaleDuke
Banned
I was having a conversation with someone the other day, the thing is when someone refuses to acknowledge the campaign of hatred filled rhetoric and refutes it by saying "WHERE IS THE PROOF HE IS RACIST" "YOU ARE WRONG UNLESS YOU CAN PROVIDE PROOF" even when you provide them with proof.
Yeah, well.
You can't fix stupid.
Yeah, well.
You can't fix stupid.
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