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Opinion There's only one Tegra chip Nintendo could be using for a Switch Pro, and here are the specs

What do you think?


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    40
  • Poll closed .

Raploz

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I was taking a look at all the Tegra chips made and I think there aren't many options Nintendo could be using for a Switch Pro.

Some stuff makes me think the only option for a Switch revision would be a Tegra Xavier chip:

*Nintendo used an off the shelf Tegra X1 on Switch

*Rumors about Switch using DLSS: https://wccftech.com/nintendo-switch-dlss-2-0/

*Bloomberg recently saying Nintendo is telling developers to make games 4K ready: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bl...said-to-boost-switch-production-by-another-20

Switch Pro is probably going to use DLSS to upscale to 4K, and the only Tegra chip available with deep learning capabilities is the Tegra Xavier. Forget about Orin, it's not coming anytime soon, and Tegra X2 doesn't have any machine learning hardware. Considering Nintendo didn't make a custom chip for Switch they're probably going to use another off the shelf solution, so we probably already have the specs for the chip Nintendo will be using.

Is seems there are 3 variants of the Tegra Xavier. Including a 15w one. That variant would be the perfect fit for a Switch upgrade (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegra)

This is probably the chip Switch Pro will be using:

Model: NX (15w)

Processor: Options with 2, 4 or 6 custom Nvidia ARM based cores. It will probably have 4 or 6 cores.

Processor speed: up to 1.4 GHz (Hexa and Quad Core). The chip will probably be underclocked just like Switch.

GPU architecture: Volta

GPU specs: 384 CUDA cores (up from 256 from original Switch) at up to 1100Mhz.

GPU Gflops: up to 845Gflops FP32 and 1690Gflops FP16, most likely less than that as it will probably be underclocked to keep thermals in check.

RAM : LPDDR4X - up to 8GBs. 128 bit bus reaching 51.2GB/s (Switch uses 4GBs of standard LPDDR4). I think they'll definitely increase the amount of RAM.

Neural Processing: 20 TOPS DL and 160 SPECint at 20 W (I really don't know what this all means). I don't think it would run at 20W, so we can assume it would have less performance than that.

-------------------

Do you guys agree this is most likely the chip Nintendo will be using in an upcoming Switch revision? If not, why? What are the other options?
 

M1chl

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So still not XB1 OG power, I don't think that this is exactly "pro" I think that they should be able to provide some custom silicon for Nintendo use at smaller node.
 

nordique

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Could also be a custom chip this time, and not necessarily a Tegra chip.

I can only imagine Nintendo and nvidia have a better working and business relationship after the success of the switch

for me, this is also a reasonable expectation:

He comments on Xavier similar to you OP, but I’m on the side of a custom/new chip just purely on the basis of what he says in second half of video
 
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kiphalfton

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Dec 27, 2018
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They need to scrap the portability for the switch pro, and just make it a home console.

Switch 1.0/2.0 - Hybrid
Switch Lite - Portable
Switch Pro - Home console/no portability

Wham bam thank you mam, all bases covered and people like me will stop bitching about it being underpowered, since the pro wouldn't be held back by weak mobile components. If the XSS is $299, Nintendo can up the specs. Whether they will is extremely doubtful though.
 
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diffusionx

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Disagree - these are chips for embedded systems like self driving cars and the like. They are not designed for AIO consumer computer platforms.

If Nvidia is working on a new Switch, it might be based on architecture like this, or something entirely new, like a new updated Tegra. No way of knowing.
 
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Raploz

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Possibly. If true though it'll be quite disappointing to me still not passing the 1tf mark in 2020+.
I think it would still be fine as it would still be a Switch. It would only need to play current Switch titles at higher resolutions, not next-gen titles. This would be just a small upgrade like the New Nintendo 3DS, not a next-gen Nintendo console with exclusive games.
 

TLZ

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Considering we are getting 4tf "next-gen" console as a baseline for the next 5+ years, this is not too bad for portable.
It still is for me though. I'm not too happy with that 4tf console anyway.

Also, this would be Nintendo's 3rd "console" since the Wii U that's still under 1tf. The Wii U came out way underpowered when its competition both passed the 1tf mark. Then the Switch came after and hardly better than the Wii U tf-wise, but maybe that's understandable because it became a portable. But surely the 3rd one's a charm? When will they finally cross that mark? 2027? When its competitors cross the 30tf mark? I don't want the gap to widen too much.
 

Okamiden

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It still is for me though. I'm not too happy with that 4tf console anyway.

Also, this would be Nintendo's 3rd "console" since the Wii U that's still under 1tf. The Wii U came out way underpowered when its competition both passed the 1tf mark. Then the Switch came after and hardly better than the Wii U tf-wise, but maybe that's understandable because it became a portable. But surely the 3rd one's a charm? When will they finally cross that mark? 2027? When its competitors cross the 30tf mark? I don't want the gap to widen too much.
this is not the 3rd console. this is refresh of Switch like N3DS was and DSi before that.
 

SF Kosmo

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Jul 7, 2020
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I don't think the next Switch will be using from the existing Tegra pipeline, which, after the X1 diverged quite a bit from Nintendo's needs. If they are smart they will be working on something more purpose built for Switch. Xavier is already years-old tech at this point, based on Turing architectuere two gens past. I think Nintendo would want something based on a scaled down Ampere.
 
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Pagusas

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Nah, I think Nvidia and Nintendo have been working together on a new Tegra specifically for the next Switch. Nvidia has so many active R&D ARM projects underway right now that any of them could be for Nintendo.
 
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Leyasu

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Apr 25, 2014
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My boy wants a switch for Christmas. I would hate to buy one for them to announce one just afterwards.

Why can’t they just confirm and release one this year damn it
 

V4skunk

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I agree. It makes sense.
But Nintendo might even splash out and do a custom chip.
 

YeulEmeralda

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My boy wants a switch for Christmas. I would hate to buy one for them to announce one just afterwards.

Why can’t they just confirm and release one this year damn it

Capitalism. Say you're announcing Switch 2 for next year. Everyone is going to wait and your Switch 1 Christmas sales tank unless you slash the price.
 

gamerguywashere

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portland, or
or they could just keep selling switches and we all live in a handheld utopia where all our favorite games are on one beautiful mobile gaming platform

the switch only has a few hours of battery...I say keep the switch the same, but keep improving your battery life in future iterations...wallah, new gameboy mobile line for like 10 years

then, release a seperate home console next holiday...I bet Nvidia can best 4TF, include tensor cores, and still be $299 without nintendo losing money for holiday 2021

fanboys can live on hope for another year, everybody wins
 

LordOfChaos

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My only concern is the Nvidia Carmel cores, a successor to their internally VLIW binary translating line. The binary translation nature, rather than being native ARM, led to some very odd performance, in a 'straight line' it was fantastic, but anything with lots of dependencies would hit stalls with the translation.

If they could swap this out for more standard ARM Cortex successors, that would do fine, but it's not a trivial undertaking, and we're talking about the Nintendo that used a bone standard TX1.
 
Jan 29, 2019
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GPU Gflops: up to 845Gflops FP32 and 1690Gflops FP16, most likely less than that as it will probably be underclocked to keep thermals in check.
That sounds like about half the performance of the xbox one, with even less memory bandwidth and some senseless cartridge based storage...

But people really love their Nintendo games, so if the price is right this will sell bonkers!

I'd probably pick one for under 200$ (CAD).. assuming it comes with the pro controller (I.E. the only reasonable controller available for it).
 

LordOfChaos

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That sounds like about half the performance of the xbox one, with even less memory bandwidth and some senseless cartridge based storage...

But people really love their Nintendo games, so if the price is right this will sell bonkers!

I'd probably pick one for under 200$ (CAD).. assuming it comes with the pro controller (I.E. the only reasonable controller available for it).


GCN (1.1? 1.2? I can't remember) compared to Volta, in some ways it would be closer than that, but the thing with these mobile first SoCs is always the memory bandwidth, which probably still won't match the first XBO.

But still, compared to what it's coming from, it's a pretty big upgrade, and DLSS might make it a great one.
 

LordOfChaos

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Would be awesome if it was ampere based.

They launched a 20nm Maxwell part in March 2017 when Pascal was all the hotness and the node was their classic "withered" technology. A bog standard TX1 by every die analysis.

They launched a product with PowerPC 750CL cores in 2012 (really 2013).


If everyone took their expectations out of Nintendo and dialed them a notch back, then another notch, then three more notches, what they actually do will disappoint less.

I think OPs suggestion is sufficiently old and tested, but the CPU cores may not play nice for perfect compatibility.
 

ultrazilla

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Could also be a custom chip this time, and not necessarily a Tegra chip.

I can only imagine Nintendo and nvidia have a better working and business relationship after the success of the switch

for me, this is also a reasonable expectation:

He comments on Xavier similar to you OP, but I’m on the side of a custom/new chip just purely on the basis of what he says in second half of video

Yeah I'm thinking a custom chip as well here. I'm hopeful we'll get PS4(Pro?) levels of performance with the DLSS helping with framerates and 4k resolution.
 
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LordOfChaos

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Yeah I'm thinking a custom chip as well here. I'm hopeful we'll get PS4(Pro?) levels of performance with the DLSS helping with framerates and 4k resolution.

I really wouldn't advise hope for this, you're going to be disappointed. The Switch is a sub 400Gflop part launched a few years after 1.3-1.8Tflop consoles. The PS4 Pro is a high target for all mobile devices smaller than a laptop, let alone for conservative Nintendo.

Withered technology is their outright stated strategy, see my post above. The ~800Gflop part in the OP is a decent thing to hope for, though I've also stated my compatibility concerns with that.
 

A Regular Guy

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With NVidia near completion owning ARM, I'm suspecting both Nintendo and NVidia are building a custom core like Denver, but for game design, probably similar to the X1 for full Backwards Compatibility for classic Switch games, but powerful enough to run on new Engines, and low power consumption.
 

Sejan

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If that’s the only option, I’m hoping to see a custom chip. I’d imagine that Nintendo is important enough to nVidia after the success of the Switch that it could absolutely happen. I would guess that Nintendo would really be keen on custom firmware after how quickly security holes showed up in the Tegra X1 since it was essentially an off the shelf part.
 
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Xellos

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I don't think it'll be Xavier, but Xavier NX does show what's possible for Nvidia/Nintendo at 10-15 watts. A custom chip with 384 CUDA cores, 128-bit 8GB RAM, faster CPU, DLSS 2.0 support could get Switch exclusives looking very nice, and would be better equipped to handle XB1/PS4 ports until Switch 2 is ready

Would be awesome if it was ampere based.

That would be awesome, but it's Nintendo so Turing is the very most I'm willing to hope for. They could probably get away with using Maxwell/A57 again but with higher clocks and/or more CUDA cores, and more RAM/bandwidth. Would probably be enough to get most of Nintendo's games to 1080p, and from there they could use custom (non-DLSS) upscaling to output at 4K. Throw in HDMI 2.1, HDR support, and a better built-in screen for portable mode, and call it a day. I'd be happy with that.
 
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McRazzle

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I was taking a look at all the Tegra chips made and I think there aren't many options Nintendo could be using for a Switch Pro.

Some stuff makes me think the only option for a Switch revision would be a Tegra Xavier chip:

*Nintendo used an off the shelf Tegra X1 on Switch

*Rumors about Switch using DLSS: https://wccftech.com/nintendo-switch-dlss-2-0/

*Bloomberg recently saying Nintendo is telling developers to make games 4K ready: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bl...said-to-boost-switch-production-by-another-20

Switch Pro is probably going to use DLSS to upscale to 4K, and the only Tegra chip available with deep learning capabilities is the Tegra Xavier. Forget about Orin, it's not coming anytime soon, and Tegra X2 doesn't have any machine learning hardware. Considering Nintendo didn't make a custom chip for Switch they're probably going to use another off the shelf solution, so we probably already have the specs for the chip Nintendo will be using.

Is seems there are 3 variants of the Tegra Xavier. Including a 15w one. That variant would be the perfect fit for a Switch upgrade (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegra)

This is probably the chip Switch Pro will be using:

Model: NX (15w)

Processor: Options with 2, 4 or 6 custom Nvidia ARM based cores. It will probably have 4 or 6 cores.

Processor speed: up to 1.4 GHz (Hexa and Quad Core). The chip will probably be underclocked just like Switch.

GPU architecture: Volta

GPU specs: 384 CUDA cores (up from 256 from original Switch) at up to 1100Mhz.

GPU Gflops: up to 845Gflops FP32 and 1690Gflops FP16, most likely less than that as it will probably be underclocked to keep thermals in check.

RAM : LPDDR4X - up to 8GBs. 128 bit bus reaching 51.2GB/s (Switch uses 4GBs of standard LPDDR4). I think they'll definitely increase the amount of RAM.

Neural Processing: 20 TOPS DL and 160 SPECint at 20 W (I really don't know what this all means). I don't think it would run at 20W, so we can assume it would have less performance than that.

-------------------

Do you guys agree this is most likely the chip Nintendo will be using in an upcoming Switch revision? If not, why? What are the other options?
I think it's more likely to be Hopper than Xavier.
Nintendo using Hopper would allow Nvidia to have it's Multi-Chip Module solution optimized by developers, giving it a huge advantage over AMD's and Intel's implementations.
And according to Nvidia a MCM design only requires 6 months from spec to tape-out.

Either way I see it as being a MCM whether it's Hopper or a MCM using Ampere.

Nintendo could also could save money as a result of increased die yields; and it may allow Nintendo to do 3D without the glasses which they have been working on, by rendering different pixels from different vantage points, using cherkerboatd tendering, although that would likely require 4 MCM chips.

Nvidia added Multi-GPU checkerboard rendering to its GeForce drivers last year as
discussed in this article.

"You might remember that Checkerboard Rendering became popular after its use in Rainbow Six: Siege and then as a staple of PlayStation 4 Pro's 4K games. The difference is that the technique was used there to display even pixels on one frame and odd pixels on another frame to save performance; for multi-GPU configurations, the goal is to allow one graphics card to draw even pixels and the other to take care of odd pixels, all in the same frame."
https://wccftech.com/multi-gpu-checkerboard-rendering-silently-added-by-nvidia/

Developers were able to get almost perfect multi-gpu scaling in Sniper Elite 4 with 2080 ti using Nvlink, as shown in this Gamers Nexus video.
 
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Ailike

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My boy wants a switch for Christmas. I would hate to buy one for them to announce one just afterwards.

Why can’t they just confirm and release one this year damn it
I don't know your boy, but I'd wager he doesn't care about 4k or teraflops nearly as much as you do. Get the kid his damn Switch.
 

FStubbs

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Eh, if Nintendo actually has access to these chips, it's more likely they'll just make a Switch revision like the last time where it's downclocked down to the base level of power and battery life is improved.

Also, the level of power noted by the OP isn't nearly enough to go 4K. It's still a lot weaker than the Xbox One.

EDIT: Nintendo might be telling developers to start preparing for 4K because we're about in the middle of the Switch's lifespan.
 
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PhoenixTank

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I'd expect a custom chip if anything, but I just don't see a Switch Pro on the horizon... And I certainly expect custom silicon for Switch Successor.
 

FStubbs

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I'd expect a custom chip if anything, but I just don't see a Switch Pro on the horizon... And I certainly expect custom silicon for Switch Successor.

Given it looks like nVIDIA is buying ARM itself, the Switch's successor will probably be a next-gen Tegra chip.
 

ethomaz

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Xavier only make up for a Pro model.

Nintendo Will probably use a new Tegra designed with new process... that is the only way to Switch Pro happens.

Maybe nVidia is working in that new Tegra already.
 
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PhoenixTank

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Given it looks like nVIDIA is buying ARM itself, the Switch's successor will probably be a next-gen Tegra chip.
I don't think it'll be off the shelf if that is what you're getting at? The Tegra line has drifted away from being designed for tablets and similar, but the pending purchase could definitely signal a return there.
 

MarkMe2525

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90% of switch owners could car less what resolution their games are running at, much less how many flops it's capable of. Seems like a Nintendo like upgrade to me. The DLSS stuff would just be a bonus for most people.
 
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SlimySnake

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there is absolutely no need for it to be a handheld, they already have a handheld in switch lite.

make this is a docked only console. 4 tflops. pair it with an 8 core 16 thread gpu and ssd and put in some tensor cores to make this 1080p console into a 4k dlss console.

this really shouldnt be that hard. they need to make a play for that market microsoft is going for and that means they need all next gen games running on this bitch.
 
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Soapbox Killer

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The cartridges are the biggest problem that will hold back the Switch "Pro". Especially if it's 4K.

More and more games needing extra downloads already.


Could they fix that by adding in USB 3.2. (2nd Gen) on the console and then adding an SSD to Switch Pro Dock?