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This is how I see monogamy for Men

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I used to think there must be a modern way of combining shenanigans with others an a loving marriage.
its not shenanigans or loving marriage, it's shenanigans or loving LTR or marriage. And marriage is essentially like russian roulette, you're putting the gov.s guns pointed at your head and a nutcracker holding your nuts.

You can be in a loving monogamous Long term relation without getting government involved in your relation. Why do you want a bunch of radical laws to apply to you, and newer even more radical laws to apply retroactively?
 

Reality Czar

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The hippies tried the free love thing in the '60s. Didn't really work out.

The new kids are trying it again, because they think they are unique snowflakes who are doing things never been done before in history. They will fail, because this shit doesn't work.

There is a reason life is created from a single man and woman pairing. It just fucking works. It's worked for millions of years. Don't fool yourself into thinking you cracked the code.
 
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Peggies

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its not shenanigans or loving marriage, it's shenanigans or loving LTR or marriage. And marriage is essentially like russian roulette, you're putting the gov.s guns pointed at your head and a nutcracker holding your nuts.

You can be in a loving monogamous Long term relation without getting government involved in your relation. Why do you want a bunch of radical laws to apply to you, and newer even more radical laws to apply retroactively?
Reaction GIF by MOODMAN
 
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More like bit informed.

Sure hope you aren't one of the men who ends up burnt by the laws, 50% end up divorce raped, and good chunk of the ones that remain married due so unhappily out of fear of the laws upon learning of them.

For example some people cohabitated to avoid toxic marriage laws, but in some places cohabitation was made retroactively into common law marriage, effectively forcing the law upon them. Some people have lost their practicing license or even become unemployed, and can't earn as big a wage to pay as much child support and alimony, only to end up in jail because the judge wouldn't lower the required payments to his ex.

At least if it happens to you, careful in the jail's shower while picking up the soap.
 
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Peggies

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More like bit informed.

Sure hope you aren't one of the men who ends up burnt by the laws, 50% end up divorce raped, and good chunk of the ones that remain married due so unhappily out of fear of the laws upon learning of them.
Don't worry, I'm one of those evil creatures called woman, sucking the life out of every man I can get my hand on.
He-Man Lol GIF by Masters Of The Universe
 
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Don't worry, I'm one of those evil creatures called woman, sucking the life out of every man I can get my hand on.
He-Man Lol GIF by Masters Of The Universe
Women are not evil. But you don't give another person overwhelming power over you, even if you love them and they're a good person now, people can change over time and you never know, also a few humans are also evil and know how to fake it too.
 
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Shrap

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As a consequence of our intelligence humans are extremely slow to mature. This means we require far more nurturing for a very long period of time. Having both the mother and father present is an essential part of this process.

So no, monogamy is not a strategy employed by females or beta males. It's an essential component to our continued existence. Humans haven't survived through physical prowess but through community, teachings and tools.
 

RedWhiteBlue

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Women are not evil. But you don't give another person overwhelming power over you, even if you love them and they're a good person now, people can change over time and you never know, also a few humans are also evil and know how to fake it too.
I never really got this aggressively anti-marriage attitude that some people have.

Its basically just a partnership not some contest where both parties are out to get one over on each other. The latter would just be a toxic relationship.

Better to teach people how to manage successful and happy marriages that to have folk going around thinking that getting married is like "playing Russian roulette". It really isn't.
 

VAL0R

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I would say that one of the best modern male mating strategies today is to be either Mormon or Catholic (there are surely others that I'm not familiar with) and marry a devout Mormon or Catholic who wants or is willing to have many children. Ten years of marriage like this can easily result in 4 or 5 offspring -- far more than would probably be accomplished by somebody attempting spread his seed far and wide. (especially considering child support laws in the West)

Monogamy seems like a suitable strategy, even for 'alphas' in modern society.
Best mating strategy engaged. Devout Roman Catholic. My wife is pregnant with our 9th child. A vast and glorious empire shall spring forth from my loins. Masculinity. Fecundity. Strength and honor.
 
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I never really got this aggressively anti-marriage attitude that some people have.

Its basically just a partnership not some contest where both parties are out to get one over on each other. The latter would just be a toxic relationship.

Better to teach people how to manage successful and happy marriages that to have folk going around thinking that getting married is like "playing Russian roulette". It really isn't.
legally, the government's guns are pointed at you. You've invited a bunch of strangers into the relationship that have not only made up a bunch of toxic rules, will keep making more toxic rules over time and applying them retroactively to your relation. People who're happily married have pointed out that where they live they'd be better off divorced in financial terms, due to all the incentives the government throws at women to become divorced.

Now maybe you think giving vast power to someone else over you can't harm the relation, you think the relation will NEVER under any circumstance go south, but marriage is essentially handing the keys to the kingdom to your partner. Despite plenty of men having gone into relations that have ended horribly bad, you're the perfect judge of character and will never misjudge and bring someone toxic into your life.

Again legally speaking it is putting the governments guns pointed at you, and odds wise, it ain't pretty either. You know Russian roulette's odds is 1 in 6, that's 16% chance of things going horribly wrong, the odds of marriage going wrong are FAR HIGHER than russian roulette, I was being polite by comparing it to Russian roulette. We need to be objective here, 100% of men probably think they're marrying the perfect woman and they'll be happily ever after, objective reality shows a good chunk of them are dead wrong.


And in some cases it also results in death.

Divorced men were over eight times more likely to commit suicide than divorced women (RR = 8.36, 95% CI = 4.24 to16. 38).

Divorced men are said to be 2.4 times likelier to commit suicide than married men.
 
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Alright

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legally, the government's guns are pointed at you. You've invited a bunch of strangers into the relationship that have not only made up a bunch of toxic rules, will keep making more toxic rules over time and applying them retroactively to your relation. People who're happily married have pointed out that where they live they'd be better off divorced in financial terms, due to all the incentives the government throws at women to become divorced.

Now maybe you think giving vast power to someone else over you can't harm the relation, you think the relation will NEVER under any circumstance go south, but marriage is essentially handing the keys to the kingdom to your partner. Despite plenty of men having gone into relations that have ended horribly bad, you're the perfect judge of character and will never misjudge and bring someone toxic into your life.

Again legally speaking it is putting the governments guns pointed at you, and odds wise, it ain't pretty either. You know Russian roulette's odds is 1 in 6, that's 16% chance of things going horribly wrong, the odds of marriage going wrong are FAR HIGHER than russian roulette, I was being polite by comparing it to Russian roulette. We need to be objective here, 100% of men probably think they're marrying the perfect woman and they'll be happily ever after, objective reality shows a good chunk of them are dead wrong.


And in some cases it also results in death.



Divorced men are said to be 2.4 times likelier to commit suicide than married men.
Is that for hetero or homo?
 
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Is that for hetero or homo?

If you mean the divorce suicide stats, it is probably hetero.

If you mean the laws, they favor women. Also they favor the person with lower income.

If you wanna know how it goes sex wise the ordering goes as follows

homosexual men in long term relations have the most sex.
heterosexual couples are next in line in terms of sex amount.
lesbians have the least sex in a relation of all pairings.
 
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Vier

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The OP should just give it up and accept the simple, quaint and blissfully ignorant life of a beta.




Here's the thing,

You see, women use hypergamy by nature, and all that means is that they're only genuinely attracted to about 20% of men, called the Alpha males. (inb4 bluray faceLMS jawlines)

Contrary to what some people believe, you don't "become" an Alpha male, you're either born one or you're not. Alpha is a set of genetic traits. As far as men are concerned, Alpha is the cream of the crop in terms of genetic material.

Why are women only sexually attracted to Alpha males? Simple, evolution. and it's not just human-specific evolution, all animals are like this.

Take crocodiles, all female crocodiles mate and have offspring, whereas only a few male crocodiles have that honor. It's called natural selection, it's nature's way of making sure only the fittest and best genes get passed on. And the mechanics for this are already in place, since one male can impregnate a thousand females, whereas females can only choose a handful of males, it makes sense that males would willingly want to have sex with any female, whereas females would only want to have sex with the best males.

So back to humans, when we say a woman is "attracted" to an Alpha male, we mean that she in fact wants and desires to have sex with that male. Women take turns f*cking these alpha males because there's very few to go around. And this leads to the main problem, there's very few to go around. What happens when a woman reaches 30 and wants to marry and have a house and money to buy things? She must "settle" for the beta male (most of you here) as she has no other option. Keep in mind that she is not sexually attracted to the beta male, she only wants him because he is a good provider, he has lots of money and can insure her safety in the world. So what of sex in this case? Beta males already know this, women neither crave nor desire sex except with the Alpha male, with the beta male they use it as a bargaining tool. If the beta male works hard enough and begs long enough, then she will "put out". She will give him sex as a "gift" or "reward", not as something she mutually wants. This is the reason most marriages end up sexless after 3 years, because the female already has all she needs from the beta male, so she no longer has to "put out".

But during the marriage there is still the obvious problem, the female is still attracted to the Alpha male, so what does she do? She still wants those Alpha genetic traits for her children, so she has sex with the Alpha male behind the beta husband's back, she gets pregnant with the Alpha male's sperm, and she tricks the beta into believing the children are his so he will nurture and raise them.

A second option is that she has already bared the children of the Alpha male before marriage, and the beta male marries her despite knowing the children are not his, but he raises them as his own regardless, his hope is that one day she will bare him his own children.

Just my thoughts..
 

Vier

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This is bullshit peddled by guys that rarely get laid. Who's fucking the ugly fat chicks? Some guy has to be, becuse if you're alpha why the hell would you be doing that?
Aye, about the fat chicks,

You see, in Ancient Times, the non-Alpha males who comprised the majority of the male-dominated society, banded together and decided to do something to end this problem of fat chicks once and for all. They came up with the radical idea that if you prevent an obese woman from eating while having sex, then the whole mechanism of Alpha/beta/gamma and natural selection completely breaks down.

Fat females would no longer seek sex with the Alpha male because sex would be too painful. Instead they will only have sex and cake with their financial providers when it's demanded of them. Loss of fat female sexual desire was at no loss for the majority non-Alpha male population since females never desired to have sex with them in the first place.


This is why women oppose the banning of cake so strongly - they need to prevent these inferior non-alpha males from spreading their genes and ignoring female natural selection. These fat chicks are simply trying to preserve the natural balance, while these men in ancient times are trying to destroy it.

Keep in mind that when the fat female is selecting the Alpha male's genetic traits for her children, non of it is happening at a conscious level. At the conscious level all she is seeking is sexual satisfaction from the Alpha male and the delicious cake.
 
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Zeroing

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homosexual men in long term relations have the most sex.
heterosexual couples are next in line in terms of sex amount.
lesbians have the least sex in a relation of all pairings.
I’m gay and this thread as been both informative and confusing to me...but yeah that I can say it’s true (what is bolded), we sure like to party
🥳
 
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Alright

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If you mean the divorce suicide stats, it is probably hetero.

If you mean the laws, they favor women. Also they favor the person with lower income.

If you wanna know how it goes sex wise the ordering goes as follows

homosexual men in long term relations have the most sex.
heterosexual couples are next in line in terms of sex amount.
lesbians have the least sex in a relation of all pairings.
Probably? Not to be a dick but you're placing a lot of emotional weight on a hypothesis of 'probably'

There's a chance that homosexuals divorce at 10000% higher rates than straights, but all are lumped in to the same stats, skewing it one way or the other.
 
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Peggies

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Lesbian couples also have the highest rate of domestic abuse.
Could there be a connection??
It's because women can be maliciously wicked and I don't even mean that sarcastic. They have to compensate their physical disadvantage. That's why I have difficulties with girls and tend to stick to boys as friends.
 
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Outlier

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I know I'm super late to this thread, but the OP is basically referring to the natures long running game; Survival Of The Fittest.

You have a tribe of say 15 male + 15 females.
The females will only to breed with the highest value male (alpha), whom has won the favor of the females (as a rule), in hopes of birth the best offspring.
The other 14 males are not permitted to breed with the females.
This situation leads to an upset, from the males. Some of the males may challenge the alpha male, while others accept their positions.
If the alpha remains undefeated, then some of the males may decide to break away and start their own tribe, elsewhere.
This cycle repeats, which leads to more tribes, villages, towns, cities, countries, and so on. Of course, let's not forget all the wars.

It's all a game of Survival Of The Fitttest.

We're still playing it. It's just more complicated, now.
 

Vier

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This situation leads to an upset, from the males. Some of the males may challenge the alpha male, while others accept their positions.
I would also say it's likely the betas would conspire to kill the alpha, in order to get sexual access from the females.



But if the original Alpha was smart, though ..
-just hear me out on this-
.. He would simply pimp out the least desirable females in the group to the beta males and BOOM! Problem solved.

>No sexual frustration from the betas.
>No conflict arises.
>The original alpha male pimp profits and preserves his life.
 
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As a consequence of our intelligence humans are extremely slow to mature. This means we require far more nurturing for a very long period of time. Having both the mother and father present is an essential part of this process.

So no, monogamy is not a strategy employed by females or beta males. It's an essential component to our continued existence. Humans haven't survived through physical prowess but through community, teachings and tools.
What I've heard is that humans practiced serial monogamy in the distant past, not lifelong monogamy.
Probably? Not to be a dick but you're placing a lot of emotional weight on a hypothesis of 'probably'

There's a chance that homosexuals divorce at 10000% higher rates than straights, but all are lumped in to the same stats, skewing it one way or the other.
I'm not placing emotional weight, sure the small single digit percent of nonhetero relations could wildly skew stats assuming most sources talking about divorce stats and most studies somehow failed to mention that. Past studies can't even include nonhetero marriages as these weren't even legal in most places.

That said humans are not evil, but they aren't angels either. And putting people in pedestals as some sort of saints that can do no wrong with the overwhelming power of the state, is not something people should do. The internet is filled with men who've been burnt in divorce, and are warning other men.
 
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Ionian

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I know I'm super late to this thread, but the OP is basically referring to the natures long running game; Survival Of The Fittest.

You have a tribe of say 15 male + 15 females.
The females will only to breed with the highest value male (alpha), whom has won the favor of the females (as a rule), in hopes of birth the best offspring.
The other 14 males are not permitted to breed with the females.
This situation leads to an upset, from the males. Some of the males may challenge the alpha male, while others accept their positions.
If the alpha remains undefeated, then some of the males may decide to break away and start their own tribe, elsewhere.
This cycle repeats, which leads to more tribes, villages, towns, cities, countries, and so on. Of course, let's not forget all the wars.

It's all a game of Survival Of The Fitttest.

We're still playing it. It's just more complicated, now.

Well that's one incel identified.
 
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How do males, who can't attract females, start a new tribe?
The whole idea of single guys being the father of all the children is a ridiculous notion. That would create serious problems in the next generation where that the case as inbreeding would obligatorily occur.

There are a small fraction of men who don't have success, but a good chunk of men do manage to have children.

In hunter gatherer tribes, what I've heard happens is that, in some cases, most men go out to nearby tribes to reproduce, and so happens in the other tribes as well, this allows for genetic diversity.

If a small tribe with a few huts were only practicing breeding within itself it would suffer severe inbreeding.

As for your comment, on internet filled with men, many in real life also know people who've gone through divorce, and it ain't always roses. Have you ever been to Australia? Do you personally have to go to Australia to know that Australia is a real place with real people? Know that you don't have to directly experience something, or know someone who's personally experienced it to learn about something. Again I don't have to personally be burnt by divorce or know someone personally burnt by divorce, to learn people can get burnt by divorce. Just a glance of the manosphere, and you can see not only testimony from individuals themselves, but news articles showing similar cases happening.

Even outside the manosphere you'd have to be blind to not learn of things going horribly wrong in some relations.

For example:
(1) Breaking! Bodycam Footage PROVES Amber Heard Lied! This Is Massive! - YouTube
 
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Dane

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So I was thinking - it's really amazing what boring classes at college can do for your thought life, pity they don't work that way for my sex life. Anyway, I suppose everybody here is familiar with the genetic theory of human mating strategies : Sperm is cheap to produce, so men seek sex with as many women as possible to maximize the amount of children. On the other hand, women can only have a few children, so they seek the best possible males, maximizing the quality of their children.

On the other hand, humans are not completely products of our genes. If we judge by other primates, and oversimplify a little, the equilibrium state in a tribe is for an alpha male to have all the females, with a bit of illicit sex on the side. Clearly this does not favor the ninety percent of males who are not getting any, or very little. (As an aside, vestiges of this system can still be seen in high schools, not the most civilized of places, where a few males get all the sex, and most have none).

I wonder, then, if monogamy could be seen as a stratagem of the beta males and the females, against the alpha males? The beta males get regular sex, which they would not have under the old system. The females get help in raising their children, which a single alpha cannot supply for the whole harem - not, at any rate, as efficiently as a beta who can concentrate his whole attention on one nuclear family. The alphas get nothing, but they are a small percentage of the population and cannot very well work together anyway, since they seek a winner-takes-all situation.

Is this theory useful for understanding our behavior? I do not offer it as a replacement for the purely genetic theory, but a supplement.

Of course, the interests of betas and females are not totally identical here. The female would still prefer the alpha to be the father of her child; she just wants the beta to supply the resources and care to raise it. Which seems to fit in with the chaperonage systems seen in many patriarchal systems, the stigma of bastardy, and the absolute prohibition on adultery.

Much more interesting than astrophysics, for sure. :messenger_winking_tongue:
It's not a new theory, in fact, the monogamy system was enforced for this very reason, most people actually descends from a minority of men, and enforcing monogamy also reduced conflicts between them.
 
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Vier

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Once upon a time, a certain breed of man could go out to a swingin' singles bar and pick up a hottie by walking up to whatever loser was incompetently trying to ask her out... and just being all masculine and shit. You insult him a little and make him feel self-conscious and he goes "um, uh, er" and leaves. Then you say "how YOU doin'?" and buy her a drink.

Now, in the age of the internet, that breed of man is the loser.

The betas are staying home. They go on some dating site and send messages and get on OnlyFans or Instagram and after a week or three of getting their backbone to stand up, they ask the girl out.

So when you go out to the bar, they aren't there anymore. Instead, the bar is full of all the guys who can't get a girl on a dating site. This is mostly because they message people on dating sites with dick pics and filth. So most of these guys are now overly alpha, and being more alpha than the next guy is actually a liability. Being all masculine doesn't distinguish you from the other men, because they're all being masculine.

Similarly, the women you can take advantage of aren't usually there either. Instead, you have mischievous little imps who think it's funny when men fight over them. I heard a decent line in "He Never Died" the other day: "Vaginas are like coupon books for alcohol." Women can go out and get free drinks just by acting like they might want to fuck later, so a number of them do. A minority will follow through and put out for someone, but mostly they just take the free drinks and bugger off.

The game's changed. You have to play it differently. And one of the most important differences is that when a man has a woman, you don't shit on him for it. You're not actually insulting the man he is, because women don't see it that way. You're insulting the choice a woman made. So your complaints that this guy is so beta are sexist and offensive, and women are not going to be impressed.

You don't have to be beta. You just have to be, you know... not such a flaming cockhole. I mean, "how YOU doin'?" totally still works. Just leave out the part where you insult the other guy. Also, don't buy drinks for women anymore. Tell them to buy you drinks.
 
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Peggies

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Once upon a time, a certain breed of man could go out to a swingin' singles bar and pick up a hottie by walking up to whatever loser was incompetently trying to ask her out... and just being all masculine and shit. You insult him a little and make him feel self-conscious and he goes "um, uh, er" and leaves. Then you say "how YOU doin'?" and buy her a drink.

Now, in the age of the internet, that breed of man is the loser.

The betas are staying home. They go on some dating site and send messages and get on OnlyFans or Instagram and after a week or three of getting their backbone to stand up, they ask the girl out.

So when you go out to the bar, they aren't there anymore. Instead, the bar is full of all the guys who can't get a girl on a dating site. This is mostly because they message people on dating sites with dick pics and filth. So most of these guys are now overly alpha, and being more alpha than the next guy is actually a liability. Being all masculine doesn't distinguish you from the other men, because they're all being masculine.

Similarly, the women you can take advantage of aren't usually there either. Instead, you have mischievous little imps who think it's funny when men fight over them. I heard a decent line in "He Never Died" the other day: "Vaginas are like coupon books for alcohol." Women can go out and get free drinks just by acting like they might want to fuck later, so a number of them do. A minority will follow through and put out for someone, but mostly they just take the free drinks and bugger off.

The game's changed. You have to play it differently. And one of the most important differences is that when a man has a woman, you don't shit on him for it. You're not actually insulting the man he is, because women don't see it that way. You're insulting the choice a woman made. So your complaints that this guy is so beta are sexist and offensive, and women are not going to be impressed.

You don't have to be beta. You just have to be, you know... not such a flaming cockhole. I mean, "how YOU doin'?" totally still works. Just leave out the part where you insult the other guy. Also, don't buy drinks for women anymore. Tell them to buy you drinks.
Hell yeah, that'll show them.
"Go buy your own drink, you scrounging bitch!"
 
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Vier

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Also let me mention my friend who was recently divorced and became single was the so called "alpha" of the group good looking successful guy always leading setting places up to go etc.

So, married women in my social circle claimed he was arrogant full of himself etc., they seemed to be put off by his "alpha" aura then he becomes single lightly jokes around and flirts with these women add in a little alcohol and these married women who bad mouthed him before are know coming close to crossing the line in flirting and touching him telling him how hot he is.

Is it possible these traits really do have a spell over women where they are off put by his arrogance but at the same time animally attracted because of female wiring? Or maybe they were just attracted to him the whole time and badmouthed him in front of people including their husbands to mask feelings they had deep down?

Keep in mind that there are different types of alpha males. There are the ones who are jerks, who no one really likes. Sociopaths are often "leaders" because of their charisma and confidence, but no one really LIKES them, not even the people who love them. They just happen to be the shiniest people in the room. Or the loudest. Or the wittiest. Etc.

Then there are the alphas who simply exude confidence and competence. I consider them "true" alphas. They don't act like jerks because they don't need to put anyone in their place - they simply demonstrate excellence, and others pale beside them.
 
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Alright

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So most of these guys are now overly alpha, and being more alpha than the next guy is actually a liability. Being all masculine doesn't distinguish you from the other men, because they're all being masculine.
Do you get out much? No dick pic sending fanny on tinder is pulling birds in real life, and masculinity has never been in more demand.
 
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Alright

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That's a salient point. I guess I should've given better context to what I was saying..
If my post came across strong, its because I'm alpha as fuck. and I've just woke up.

I'm not talking gf or marriage material, but the dirty little sluts who just want a good railing, they're knickers become the Niagara Falls when Alpha/bad boy/chavs talk to them like shit.

But those people are rarer than before and they certainly aren't hitting the bars like they used to (too busy gaming) so you have all of these women who don't game and still go to bars, being hit on by thirsty saps - who think every woman is a Taiwanese prostitute because they've watched too much porn, and the trollop are begging for their back doors smashing in by some well dressed, Gregory peck-esque 1950s smooth mover. Made even easier by the rise/openness of the 'daddy' fantasy.

Getting laid has never been so easy

signed, 47 year old virgin who lives in his mums cellar
 
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So, married women in my social circle claimed he was arrogant full of himself etc., they seemed to be put off by his "alpha" aura then he becomes single lightly jokes around and flirts with these women add in a little alcohol and these married women who bad mouthed him before are know coming close to crossing the line in flirting and touching him telling him how hot he is.

Is it possible these traits really do have a spell over women where they are off put by his arrogance but at the same time animally attracted because of female wiring? Or maybe they were just attracted to him the whole time and badmouthed him in front of people including their husbands to mask feelings they had deep down?

Smh them hoes belong to the streets.
 
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Vier

Member
Jun 7, 2019
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I think women are hardwired to act more instinctively. I have seen intelligent women completely hogtied by some guys' 'alphas'' ways. These guys can be bad to the bone losers, they know it, but can't help themselves. It's kind of funny because they act like a deer in headlights. Then later when it wears off and they regain their senses they feel like **** and wonder what the heck happened. Sometimes it's comical, sometimes not so much.

Smh them hoes belong to the streets.

 
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Rayven_king

Member
Jun 11, 2009
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South Africa
I would also say it's likely the betas would conspire to kill the alpha, in order to get sexual access from the females.



But if the original Alpha was smart, though ..
-just hear me out on this-
.. He would simply pimp out the least desirable females in the group to the beta males and BOOM! Problem solved.

>No sexual frustration from the betas.
>No conflict arises.
>The original alpha male pimp profits and preserves his life
.

 

highrider

Gold Member
Dec 18, 2010
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Women only expect monogamy from dudes that lack options. They’re not dumb on the whole. Now if you’re Tiger Woods and throwing it in their face then it’s a problem but if he moved like a boss..

And tbh, your life will be much more successful and fulfilling as an older guy just getting sex however much you need to but being on solo mode fully. Younger men wanting children and families, that’s the only reason I see for partnering in a monogamous way which most guys my age have done if they were one to do that lol.
 
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