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This Sony handheld device patent looks familiar

Feb 25, 2012
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Oh yeah, forgot about that part. To be fair though, the Vita's clock speed is variable, so with WiFi enabled it's actually 111-166 MHz, not just 111 flat, so that gives it up to 21 GFLOPs with WiFi. Which brings the difference back down to 7x (which is still pretty close to a generational leap).

But didn't most graphically demanding Vita's game automatically disable WiFi?
 

Peterc

Member
May 15, 2015
2,032
2
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It has an actual d-pad ;(

Likely a mediocre one, but at least it's not four face buttons.

It's still a splitted dpad, and i really don't get it why they shouldn't place the 3d stick there. Dpad isn't used allot.

Beside that, I believe nintendo will release a joycon with dpad, just click it in and be happy :)
 

Branduil

Member
Sep 20, 2006
64,604
2
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Excellent Eriador
Yeah, if you just went by FLOPS alone the Vita would actually be inbetween the GC and original Xbox in power. It just has a far more modern architecture which allows it to do far more than those 6th-gen systems. The Switch is the same way, even if it technically has less FLOPS than 7th-gen systems when undocked, the architecture improvements will make it significantly more capable.
 

Behlel

Member
Feb 23, 2015
521
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Italy
True, i could also say highend PC is like 10x the power of ps4 pro, still people are not complaining about the power/price of ps4 pro.

Switch handheld is like 2x the power of what the vita was at the time when it was released.
So if people aren't excited about that, there is something wrong with it, switch has all the elements it needs. It's a great device and it delivers in tech.
Lol in what world there are GPU with 48TFlop?
 

Drackhorn

Member
Jun 10, 2013
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It's still a splitted dpad, and i really don't get it why they shouldn't place the 3d stick there. Dpad isn't used allot.

Beside that, I believe nintendo will release a joycon with dpad, just click it in and be happy :)

If it's anything like the PS4 it's one piece of plastic and never feels like it's really splitted. Nintendo better release that dpad joycon because all those platformers in their back catalogue really beg to be played with a proper d-pad.
 

DrXym

Member
Feb 10, 2007
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The irony is Sony would have had the handheld market sewn up if they weren't so damned greedy with their proprietary storage cards.

I wonder how many potential owners changed their minds when they saw how much the cards cost, or existing owners stopped buying titles because of lack of space.

This should have been obvious in the first iteration but they kept repeating the mistake, all the way through to the PS TV.
 

Luigiv

Member
Jun 8, 2009
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But didn't most graphically demanding Vita's game automatically disable WiFi?

I'm not so sure. From my understanding, 222 MHz mode was added a year or so after launch, so early releases like Uncharted and Gravity Rush didn't use it. I know Strangers Wrath HD did as JAW explicitly mentioned they used it in a DF interview. I guess it's possible Killzone mercenaries used it in single player but it would have had to revert to default for multiplayer. Other than that I can't really think of too many graphically demanding, offline only games. Maybe MGS HD collection.
 

RM8

Member
Mar 11, 2012
21,332
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The irony is Sony would have had the handheld market sewn up if they weren't so damned greedy with their proprietary storage cards.

I wonder how many potential owners changed their minds when they saw how much the cards cost, or existing owners stopped buying titles because of lack of space.

The irony is this should have been obvious in the first iteration but they kept repeating the mistake, all the way through to the PS TV.
I wouldn't be so sure. Price was obviously a factor, but launch dates aligned, 3DS sold better than Vita at $250. I feel like the PSP crowd was better served by phones and tablets to a much larger degree than the DS crowd, since a lot of people saw PSP as a media player. The market pretty much never showed interest for Vita, ever. Even in Japan, despite some people acting as if it did well there, it has sold around 5 million units since 2011. That's not even twice the WonderSwan userbase.
 

Oregano

Member
Mar 13, 2013
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I'm not so sure. From my understanding, 222 MHz mode was added a year or so after launch, so early releases like Uncharted and Gravity Rush didn't use it. I know Strangers Wrath HD did as JAW explicitly mentioned they used it in a DF interview. I guess it's possible Killzone mercenaries used it in single player but it would have had to revert to default for multiplayer. Other than that I can't really think of too many graphically demanding, offline only games. Maybe MGS HD collection.

I think last time it came up people pointed out that Killzone doesn't disable the network features.
 

ArtHands

Member
Oct 14, 2012
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The irony is Sony would have had the handheld market sewn up if they weren't so damned greedy with their proprietary storage cards.

I wonder how many potential owners changed their minds when they saw how much the cards cost, or existing owners stopped buying titles because of lack of space.

This should have been obvious in the first iteration but they kept repeating the mistake, all the way through to the PS TV.

They wouldnt being greedy. They did that because they offset some of the vita hardware cost to the memory card instead, to control the narrative that the hardware is affordable at $250.

It along with Vita having no game, ended up killing the vita from day one
 

DrXym

Member
Feb 10, 2007
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0
885
They wouldnt being greedy. They did that because they offset some of the vita hardware cost to the memory card instead, to control the narrative that the hardware is affordable at $250.

It along with Vita having no game, ended up killing the vita from day one

They could already offset the cost of hardware the usual way that every other platform manages - charging a fee on every title which is included in the retail cost.

Proprietary cards hit users twice - once for buying a game off PSN (hardly cheap to begin with) and again for putting the download on a card. A 16GB card might cost $50 so 2-4GB game basically costs $6-12 just to store it!

It was pure naked greed and I believe it cost them their entire platform. I know I lost interest in the Vita because of it. I'm sure there were other reasons (e.g. crappy 3DS ports) in addition to this, but IMO this was the biggest one.
 

firelogic

Member
Jun 2, 2013
2,124
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0
I'm not buying a Switch and I wouldn't buy a hybrid from Sony either. Too bulky to be a portable and too underpowered to be a console. I'm also not interested in playing an in-depth "big screen experience" kind of game on a < 7" tablet screen. Are people actually going to stop playing Zelda on their big screen TV to transfer the experience to a tiny one? A beautiful vast open-world with sweeping vistas. I'd rather just stop playing and go back to it later where it was meant to be played.
 

JNT

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Dec 6, 2011
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I haven't read the patent, but judging from the pictures, this has to be prior art right? I mean have there not been similar controllers for phones and tablets for ages?
 

Oregano

Member
Mar 13, 2013
12,412
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They could already offset the cost of hardware the usual way that every other platform manages - charging a fee on every title which is included in the retail cost.

Proprietary cards hit users twice - once for buying a game off PSN (hardly cheap to begin with) and again for putting the download on a card. A 16GB card might cost $50 so 2-4GB game basically costs $6-12 just to store it!

It was pure naked greed and I believe it cost them their entire platform. I know I lost interest in the Vita because of it. I'm sure there were other reasons (e.g. crappy 3DS ports) in addition to this, but IMO this was the biggest one.

It wasn't greed. Vita was really a $300 device but they thought by matching the 3DS price they would gain the advantage.

Also Vita barely got any 3DS ports, that was fair from an issue. I'm sure Sony would have loved some crappy Monster Hunter ports.
 
Feb 5, 2009
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In the patent it is clear that the tablet isn't any common tablet but something akin to the switch itself, which looks like a tablet but is in fact a different hardware designed by Nintendo itself....

here you can see the two slots for the memory card (micro sd?) and the cartridge (compatible with ps vita games?). Finally you can also see the hdmi port.

Here instead you can see the usb port and the jack, so obviously this is not merely a patent for a detachable controller for a standard tablet. More like VITA 3000, though as I said I don't think it will ever come to fruition.

To repeat: This patent doesn't describe Modular Console Design nor Detachable Controllers, as already explained in this very thread:

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=230486869

Here. This excerpt from the patent describe how the Left and Right controller parts are fixed to the main body:

[Configuration of Operation Unit]
As shown in FIGS. 1 to 5, the right-side operation unit 3 and the left-side operation unit 4 are configured to include right-side extending portions 26 and left-side extending portions 27 located on the right side and the left side of the housing main body 25, respectively, And is integrated with the main body portion 2. These operation units 3 and 4 are operated by an operation signal corresponding to a user's input operation, that is, an operation signal indicating the operation contents of a button or an operation body operated by the user, to the main unit 2, eventually to the control unit 23 .


Again, the patent is about a more efficient way to communicate vibration to the user hands. Since the design does a better job vibrating the grip like parts smaller vibration motors can be used thus decreasing the device size and costs.

The other advantage of the design described in the patent concern ergonomics. As it's a more confortable way to grip the device.
Two other things I noticed

Here the B1 and B2 buttons seem to be the ones that need to be pressed to deattach the controller.

B1 and B2 are operating buttons like BC3, not a mechanical detachment system.

Also, from this picture it looks like the grip themselves of the controllers can be deattached, for reasons I can't possibly fathom (to reduce the form factor perhaps?).

Those grips are semi detached, they have supporting parts in between, the idea is to isolate the vibration so it ends up more in the user hands than other parts of the console.

i suggest that you adress this in your post as not to confuse people even further, there's enough confusion and thread derailment already XD
 

DFox

Member
Jul 19, 2015
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If you ask me it looks more like a accessory for a Android device than a successor for the Vita.

Sony is already heavily invested in the Android ecosystem. A PlayStation Store cross all of my Android devices and maybe have the library emulated on PC/MAC and PS4 would be enough for people.
 

Oregano

Member
Mar 13, 2013
12,412
4
0
If you ask me it looks more like a accessory for a Android device than a successor for the Vita.

Sony is already heavily invested in the Android ecosystem. A PlayStation Store cross all of my Android devices and maybe have the library emulated on PC/MAC and PS4 would be enough for people.

Hmmm like some form of Playstation Mobile?

Weird they've never thought of that before.
 

Redd

Member
Aug 23, 2007
8,725
0
0
I'm not buying a Switch and I wouldn't buy a hybrid from Sony either. Too bulky to be a portable and too underpowered to be a console. I'm also not interested in playing an in-depth "big screen experience" kind of game on a < 7" tablet screen. Are people actually going to stop playing Zelda on their big screen TV to transfer the experience to a tiny one? A beautiful vast open-world with sweeping vistas. I'd rather just stop playing and go back to it later where it was meant to be played.

Yeah I could when I'm sitting in the back during a car trip. Or if I'm waiting in the lobby while my car is getting some maintenence.
 

DFox

Member
Jul 19, 2015
55
0
0
Hmmm like some form of Playstation Mobile?

Weird they've never thought of that before.

Do you think the PlayStation Mobile was bad idea or just badly executed?

I mean if you could play Android games on a PS4 or have them accessible on your TV, tablet, phone or Macboook doesn't sound like dum idea. It sounds amazing. PlayStation Now sounded amazing too but the execution was bad (is not even available in my county or the devices I would want to use it on). Kindles are already really successful (own Android based eco system). NVIDIA is pushing there Android and cloud based solution (shared eco system Google, PlayStore).
 

Oregano

Member
Mar 13, 2013
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Do you think the PlayStation Mobile was bad idea or just badly executed?

I mean if you could play Android games on a PS4 or have them accessible on your TV, tablet, phone or Macboook doesn't sound like dum idea. It sounds amazing. PlayStation Now sounded amazing too but the execution was bad (is not even available in my county or the devices I would want to use it on). Kindles are already really successful (own Android based eco system). NVIDIA is pushing there Android and cloud based solution (shared eco system Google, PlayStore).

You're right, I was just making fun.
 

mrk8885

Banned
Aug 14, 2016
569
0
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I'm not buying a Switch and I wouldn't buy a hybrid from Sony either. Too bulky to be a portable and too underpowered to be a console. I'm also not interested in playing an in-depth "big screen experience" kind of game on a < 7" tablet screen. Are people actually going to stop playing Zelda on their big screen TV to transfer the experience to a tiny one? A beautiful vast open-world with sweeping vistas. I'd rather just stop playing and go back to it later where it was meant to be played.

I'm absolutely going to do that. When I'm at home I'll happily play on my big screen. But I also work 24 hour shifts with lots of downtime and I'm going to enjoy playing zelda that way too.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
Nov 16, 2012
35,973
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Considering how quick Sony was to abandon meaningful Vita support, I'm not sure how interested in this I'd be. Not to mention how underpowered it would be compared to Sony's main device that it wouldn't make much sense as a hybrid.
 

jackal27

Banned
Jun 29, 2012
5,277
0
480
Joplin, MO
Hahaha, don't ever change Sony.

Actually... Please do change. Please don't release something like this if you're not going to actively support it.
 

FairFriend

Member
May 12, 2013
616
0
415
To repeat: This patent doesn't describe Modular Console Design nor Detachable Controllers, as already explained in this very thread:

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=230486869

Here. This excerpt from the patent describe how the Left and Right controller parts are fixed to the main body:

[Configuration of Operation Unit]
As shown in FIGS. 1 to 5, the right-side operation unit 3 and the left-side operation unit 4 are configured to include right-side extending portions 26 and left-side extending portions 27 located on the right side and the left side of the housing main body 25, respectively, And is integrated with the main body portion 2. These operation units 3 and 4 are operated by an operation signal corresponding to a user's input operation, that is, an operation signal indicating the operation contents of a button or an operation body operated by the user, to the main unit 2, eventually to the control unit 23 .


Again, the patent is about a more efficient way to communicate vibration to the user hands. Since the design does a better job vibrating the grip like parts smaller vibration motors can be used thus decreasing the device size and costs.

The other advantage of the design described in the patent concern ergonomics. As it's a more confortable way to grip the device.

B1 and B2 are operating buttons like BC3, not a mechanical detachment system.


Those grips are semi detached, they have supporting parts in between, the idea is to isolate the vibration so it ends up more in the user hands than other parts of the console.

i suggest that you adress this in your post as not to confuse people even further, there's enough confusion and thread derailment already XD

Thank u for the clarification, already edited my posta. Btw, i could not find the link to the patent in that blog, do you happen to have it at hand?
 
Feb 5, 2009
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If you ask me it looks more like a accessory for a Android device than a successor for the Vita.

Sony is already heavily invested in the Android ecosystem. A PlayStation Store cross all of my Android devices and maybe have the library emulated on PC/MAC and PS4 would be enough for people.

Hmmm like some form of Playstation Mobile?

Weird they've never thought of that before.
Well, in this case it would be better to actually discuss what are the facts about the patent, since There's alot of false information been spread as it is. There are various sites reporting this as a Switch type Device. NeoGaf as a very "popular community" has an even bigger responsibility in the way it handles information more so than other Forums in the internet.

Described in there is an integral device, with it's own Processing, Screen and controller parts. And as you know patents tend to cover all the bases, in this case even in the occasions where it describes other use configurations of the invention, not even in a single one is referenced the operating part been a controller that can be attached/detached to other devices. If it was a future intent on Sony's part leaving outside this patent would have been a mistake.

Of course, this doesn't rule out a device similar to what you guys suggest coming from Sony, specially due to the present events, but that's a different matter.

Thank u for the clarification, already edited my posta. Btw, i could not find the link to the patent in that blog, do you happen to have it at hand?
That's understandable since the author of the article didn't provide a link. Failing top do so presented the information out of context and created a wave of false information. Here it is:

http://ipforce.jp/patent-jp-A-2017-37371

As a frienly reminder. The patent is long, composed of over more than a 100 numbered article points. However, the purposes can be summarized like i pointed out already:
  • More efficient vibration with smaller Off Centric Motors or a Solenoid.
  • Cost reduction and smaller size.
  • Ergonomic benefits due to the Handle Grips.
  • Different Grip configurations.
The reason of the excesive text is due to the patents needing to cover absolutely every angle of the invention and most of it's implementations.
 

TLZ

Member
Oct 20, 2015
10,856
15,708
980
Sydney
Sony is not gonna go head to head with Nintendo again in the handheld market when Nintendo already trounced them twice. What about the vita makes anyone think Sony is ready to jump back in?
One mistake doesn't mean they're done.
 

TLZ

Member
Oct 20, 2015
10,856
15,708
980
Sydney
Yeah I could when I'm sitting in the back during a car trip. Or if I'm waiting in the lobby while my car is getting some maintenence.

Some of the reasons you guys come up with are really absurd. How many times a year does your car need maintenance? How's that even an example and therefore a valid reason to buy? It's like that other example everyone likes to use but almost no one will experience, "will be good on the plane". Like what is the &#8453; of people flying around weekly who are even remotely interested in gaming? Get real.
 

FairFriend

Member
May 12, 2013
616
0
415
That's understandable since the author of the article didn't provide a link. Failing top do so presented the information out of context and created a wave of false information. Here it is:

http://ipforce.jp/patent-jp-A-2017-37371

As a frienly reminder. The patent is long, composed of over more than a 100 numbered article points. However, the purposes can be summarized like i pointed out already:
  • More efficient vibration with smaller Off Centric Motors or a Solenoid.
  • Cost reduction and smaller size.
  • Ergonomic benefits due to the Handle Grips.
  • Different Grip configurations.
The reason of the excesive text is due to the patents needing to cover absolutely every angle of the invention and most of it's implementations.

Thank you for being so polite! Anyway, back to the topic, I still wonder why Sony would register such patent in 2015. I mean, I understand that companies register even the weirdest ideas, but in the case of Sony I thought that they were adamant about not being interested in the dedicated mobile market. I hope that this shows that there is hope for a Vita successor. I mean, if it was just the vibration function that they wanted to patent they wouldn't have included the main body, since they also specifically say that it has processing capabilities of its own, if Google translate is serving me well.
 

spannicus

Member
May 11, 2012
6,686
14
440
Id never buy another Sony handheld after buying two Vitas. Sonys studios are stretched all over the place working on PS4/PRO VR games etc. Whos gonna have time to make Vita games, first party I mean. That was a problem when the Vita launched, most first party studios were working on PS4 games and didn't have time. As much as I would love one, I just don't trust Sony with this shit anymore. I could continue playing indies on my current Vita and get a GPD WIN for others.
 

TGO

Member
Sep 5, 2007
10,974
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With each new Nintendo machine there's always a Sony patent/prototype or anything from a a few years back.
3 generations of this, it's getting silly now.
Lol at the Nintendo apologist

3 times a charm