THQ in default with Wells Fargo over $50 million credit facility

So I've been asking around today, there are at least 4 interested parties in Saints Row, 1 interested party in Darksiders and 1 interested party in Company of Heroes.

Our guy says the banks will be able to recover around $40m from asset sales and a further $10m from the sale of offices, equipment and leases.

Even though THQ are done for, their major IPs are going to survive as will a couple of the studios.

If anyone has questions about the future of other IPs I can ask our guy who is advising one of the interested parties as to what the prospects are.
I would like to know what could happen to the WWE series. Is there a legal reason for another developer not taking it and releasing a WWE '14?
 
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Best bet is for Wells Fargo to just come in on Tuesday, say they are calling in the loan, and start the long process of piecing out the company. I don't see any other option. The stock is gonna be de-listed by Friday, I'm betting
 

jcm

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Best bet is for Wells Fargo to just come in on Tuesday, say they are calling in the loan, and start the long process of piecing out the company. I don't see any other option. The stock is gonna be de-listed by Friday, I'm betting
I don't think that's the best bet, unless the entire earnings release was a giant lie. They said they have $36M in cash, and $21M drawn on the loan. So either they lied, or they had a short term cash crunch that has gone away. Either way, WF doesn't want to liquidate them if they can help it. Its expensive and a pain in the ass for them.
 
So I've been asking around today, there are at least 4 interested parties in Saints Row, 1 interested party in Darksiders and 1 interested party in Company of Heroes.

Our guy says the banks will be able to recover around $40m from asset sales and a further $10m from the sale of offices, equipment and leases.

Even though THQ are done for, their major IPs are going to survive as will a couple of the studios.

If anyone has questions about the future of other IPs I can ask our guy who is advising one of the interested parties as to what the prospects are.
Thanks for the heads up.

I'm going to bet:

Saints Row: Warner, Square Enix, EA, and Microsoft
Darksiders: Warner
Company of Heroes: EA (feel free to stone me, but they're one of the only publishers who is acquisitive and also shows interest in getting back in the strategy business)
 
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hope company of heroes 2 gets completed by the studio...

can you check "metro last light"?
Metro is not owned by THQ. It is a licenced property.

I would like to know what could happen to the WWE series. Is there a legal reason for another developer not taking it and releasing a WWE '14?
WWE is a licenced property, in the event that THQ go bankrupt the licence will revert to WWE and they will sell it to another developer, probably at a much lower price as the fees for WWE are part of why THQ are in trouble.

What about red faction?
2 interested parties.

Thanks for the heads up.

I'm going to bet:

Saints Row: Warner, Square Enix, EA, and Microsoft
Darksiders: Warner
Company of Heroes: EA (feel free to stone me, but they're one of the only publishers who is acquisitive and also shows interest in getting back in the strategy business)
SR: Yes, no, yes, no.
Darksiders: No.
Company of Heroes: Yes.

They paint a rosier picture, so perhaps things will actually work out for THQ?
The picture is based on overly optimistic valuations of THQ's IP's and licences. They have given Saint's Row a valuation of $120m, but that is not realistic. THQ would be lucky to get $30m if they sold it today.
 
Oct 12, 2010
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Thanks for the heads up.

I'm going to bet:

Saints Row: Warner, Square Enix, EA, and Microsoft
Darksiders: Warner
Company of Heroes: EA (feel free to stone me, but they're one of the only publishers who is acquisitive and also shows interest in getting back in the strategy business)
I think I agree with this except for CoH. Maybe it's just wishful thinking since CoH/Relic at EA would be dreadful for me but knowing EA they'd rather slap C&C on everything.

Unless the next CoH (after 2) is a Space Marine style spin-off.... oh god D:

Edit: FUCK
 
SR: Yes, no, yes, no.
Darksiders: No.
Company of Heroes: Yes.
Well, 50% is a pretty good guess rate!

I think I agree with this except for CoH. Maybe it's just wishful thinking since CoH/Relic at EA would be dreadful for me but knowing EA they'd rather slap C&C on everything.

Unless the next CoH (after 2) is a Space Marine style spin-off.... oh god D:

Edit: FUCK
Oh come now, EA with CoH was the easy one! :p
 
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Not dead yet. If they can sell at least 2 million copies of their new South Park games, I think they would be fine.

This pretty much opens up my eyes how expensive video game development has become and 1 game can literally make or break the company nowadays.
 
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well company of heroes2 is supposed to release early next year so its probably mostly done.

ea will buy it,finish it and release it,i don't think they have time to damage it.

probably just do some bro-dude marketing....
 

marrec

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LOLOLOLOL! You should apply for a job at THQ management, you would fit in well there. The South Park game sells at best 900k-1.2m which loses them money.
How much are they wanting South Park to sell? Darksiders was a disappointment at 1.5m, but it probably cost much more to develop.
 
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Not dead yet. If they can sell at least 2 million copies of their new South Park games, I think they would be fine.
As much as I'd like to see that happen, it's a long shot. The longer it takes for The Stick of Truth to come out, the more hurdles that it has to overcome. We're already seeing generational fatigue and declining sales... and if the game fails to hit in April, it goes up against GTA V, which makes it all but irrelevant at retail.

2 million is what was thought to be the number for Darksiders II, and it never came close.
 
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Best bet is for Wells Fargo to just come in on Tuesday, say they are calling in the loan, and start the long process of piecing out the company. I don't see any other option. The stock is gonna be de-listed by Friday, I'm betting
Why do you think it'll be delisted? It takes 30 days of trading at below $1 a share or 10 days of trading following a letter of noncompliance, as I understand it. The stock is still above $1 and I don't believe that we've heard that they're yet in noncompliance.

Unless you mean they take themselves off?
 
Ah, thanks anyway :)

Wild guess: Saints Row - EA - Visceral Games
EA gives presentations pretty often about how IPs generally don't do so well without the original development teams, so I'd actually guess someone like Warner or Ubisoft developing internally.

Warner especially since they have quite a few more internal studios than successful properties, though so far they have been picking up the developer almost every time they buy.
 
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Not studios, just IPs. A lot of the interest is actually in the IP itself, rather than studio related. I know one of the parties interested wishes to develop the IP they buy internally if they manage to get it.
I worry that Saints Row in another studios' hands would simply be an unfunny parody of what Saints Row The Third was. It'd be really easy to try too hard in that franchise (one could argue there were some moments where even Volition was guilty of this).
 
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CoH2 would be a good fit for EA to push Origin too. If they pick up Relic maybe we get a new proper C&C from them too as I don't have any faith in this f2p business and Victory.
 
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Not studios, just IPs. A lot of the interest is actually in the IP itself, rather than studio related. I know one of the parties interested wishes to develop the IP they buy internally if they manage to get it.
Hopefully this isn't related to Saint's Row.

Is EA the interested party in Darksiders?

As for the other two SR companies, I'd guess at 2K and Activision?
 
CoH2 would be a good fit for EA to push Origin too. If they pick up Relic maybe we get a new proper C&C from them too as I don't have any faith in this f2p business and Victory.
EA notably used to release RTS games that weren't part of C&C as well when you consider things like Battleforge and Battle for Middle Earth.

They're also one of the few publishers who still push PC games a lot with titles like The Sims, Sim City, SWTOR, and some pretty great PC versions of games like Battlefield.

This is before we even get to their PC business.

Relic also has an f2p MOBA in development (fits with EA's strategy), a second team making a major RTS as well, a huge focus on digital (fits with EA's strategy), and EA is one of the only publishers on earth who still has a major presence in Vancouver.

Hopefully this isn't related to Saint's Row.

Is EA the interested party in Darksiders?

As for the other two SR companies, I'd guess at 2K and Activision?
I contemplated Take-Two, but I have to wonder if they really want another open world game when they have Grand Theft Auto, Red Dead Redemption, Mafia, and whatever Agent will be when it comes out in 2017.
 
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EA gives presentations pretty often about how IPs generally don't do so well without the original development teams, so I'd actually guess someone like Warner or Ubisoft developing internally.

Warner especially since they have quite a few more internal studios than successful properties, though so far they have been picking up the developer almost every time they buy.
Why are you always shitting on my predictions educated guesses? :(

I had no idea about EA's stance on this matter. Weird to see something as sensible to come out of their mouth.
 
Why are you always shitting on my predictions educated guesses? :(

I had no idea about EA's stance on this matter. Weird to see something as sensible to come out of their mouth.
I think one thing to consider about EA is that in the "war of evil", Activision was seen as anti-developer and EA was seen as anti-consumer.

Like EA would pick up Brutal Legend when Activision threw it away, but they'd do things like abandon Steam or standardize online passes.

EA certainly has shut down studios while imploding, but they generally didn't get in protracted legal battles with them or have people fleeing away.
 
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EA notably used to release RTS games that weren't part of C&C as well when you consider things like Battleforge and Battle for Middle Earth.

They're also one of the few publishers who still push PC games a lot with titles like The Sims, Sim City, SWTOR, and some pretty great PC versions of games like Battlefield.

This is before we even get to their PC business.

Relic also has an f2p MOBA in development (fits with EA's strategy), a second team making a major RTS as well, a huge focus on digital (fits with EA's strategy), and EA is one of the only publishers on earth who still has a major presence in Vancouver.



I contemplated Take-Two, but I have to wonder if they really want another open world game when they have Grand Theft Auto, Red Dead Redemption, Mafia, and whatever Agent will be when it comes out in 2017.
That's a good point, I was assuming they may go for some sort of switch between GTA and SR like EA do with Battlefield/MOH and Activision do with MW/Black Ops, but I was forgetting all the other open world franchises they already have.
 
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I'm pretty sure you don't have to fear EA "abandoning Steam" for CoH 2 as things are probably too far along with Steamworks integration and Steam pre-orders for that to happen.

However, for subsequent CoH titles all bets are off.
 

marrec

Loves ketchup on hot dogs and Pringles
Oct 11, 2010
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Didn't they say South Park had to sell 2 millon JUST to be break even?
Christ, what could have cost so much that they need a game like that to sell 2m?

(I thought it was DS2 that needed to sell 2m to be in the black.)

Yep: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/..._failing_to_break_even_on_it.php#.UKESO5jhe_g

Edit:

As a side note, I'd guess that Darksiders would be internal since they lost their creative director and had a fair amount of staff laid off.
Man... they aren't going to hit that figure.
 
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Don't worry guys, it's not Saint's Row, Volition will follow the IP, publishers recognise the importance of Volition to the success of Saint's Row.
It must be Darksiders, they can make it without Vigil now that the creator of the series quit the studio too. Don't think anyone is interested in a WH40K MMO turned into a single player game either.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
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Don't worry guys, it's not Saint's Row, Volition will follow the IP, publishers recognise the importance of Volition to the success of Saint's Row.
Yes, yes... now buy the Descent IP off Interplay (so they can sink) already and put Volition to work on Descent 4.
:(
Saints Who?

why is there no interest in Volition? Their destruction tech is the by far the best in the industry.
Disagree strongly, it's too "arcade"y for me. The only thing it has over destruction tech like Frostbite/DICE's is the ability to destroy inside walls while keeping the roof up.
 
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Why are you always shitting on my predictions educated guesses? :(

I had no idea about EA's stance on this matter. Weird to see something as sensible to come out of their mouth.
IIRC its was one of the things they have been constant with and during the time they got their image change to being positive (aka releasing Mirrors Edge etc) they wanted to show that they could also treat them better than before (since gamers wont forget the bullshit they pulled with companies like Bullfrog, etc).

Whats funny is that after all that it still seems to happen eg. Pandemic and in a lesser sense Bioware (due to the heads leaving).
 
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Volition is the only studio I see having value to another publisher. Open world experienced studios can't just be pulled out of a hat.

I don't have much hope for the other studios, and I explained my reasoning on the previous page.

I also must point out that even if zomgbbqftw does have the inside track on negotiations, there is a long way to go from expressing interest to an actual signed purchase contract of an IP or a studio. I wouldn't celebrate. I would imagine right now all that is happening is that THQ is starting the process of opening its books to the people expressing interest, so the interested parties can then internally do a valuation of the IP and studios. I remain doubtful that anything other than Saints Row has any value to a bidder once this discovery process is finished.
 

marrec

Loves ketchup on hot dogs and Pringles
Oct 11, 2010
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This is kind of a rhetorical question since the answer seems obvious, but isn't it stupid to pay that much for a license and then use it to develop a semi-traditional RPG?

I mean, I'M glad it's a traditional RPG, but they don't sell like they used to.
 
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Volition is the only studio I see having value to another publisher. Open world experienced studios can't just be pulled out of a hat.

I don't have much hope for the other studios, and I explained my reasoning on the previous page.

I also must point out that even if zomgbbqftw does have the inside track on negotiations, there is a long way to go from expressing interest to an actual signed purchase contract of an IP or a studio. I wouldn't celebrate. I would imagine right now all that is happening is that THQ is starting the process of opening its books to the people expressing interest, so the interested parties can then internally do a valuation of the IP and studios. I remain doubtful that anything other than Saints Row has any value to a bidder once this discovery process is finished.
Absolutely right, expressing interest is a long way from an actual purchase.

I think there is value in the IPs that THQ owns directly but not the studios associated. Nowhere near the value that THQ have given them though.
 
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This is kind of a rhetorical question since the answer seems obvious, but isn't it stupid to pay that much for a license and then use it to develop a semi-traditional RPG?

I mean, I'M glad it's a traditional RPG, but they don't sell like they used to.
Is it possible that the genre was dictated by Matt and Trey?
 

marrec

Loves ketchup on hot dogs and Pringles
Oct 11, 2010
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Matt and Trey actually went to Obsidian, pitched the idea, and then went shopping for a publisher after they had already signed them up.

While this doesn't confirm that they chose the genre, my guess would be that they did given the context.
Ah, ya... you don't go to Obsidian to make a Kart Racer...

So where does the licensing for THQ come into this then equation then? Matt and Trey come around with Obsidian in tow and say "We'll let you publish this game if you pay us Xm."?