• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

THR: JJ Abrams' Superman Won't Be Part of the DCEU Universe, Will Feature a Black Kal-El

Blade2.0

Member
Dec 3, 2018
1,805
1,942
475
Oh really?

So all the "whitewashing" complaints we heard over the past several decades can be tossed out then, right?

Glad this is settled.
I mean. Coming from institutions that cast John Wayne as fucking Genghis Khan...yes there's whitewashing in Hollywood. Lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: DeafTourette

TheAdlerian

Banned
Apr 18, 2021
122
52
125
I hate how Hollywood constantly practices Tokenism which is virtual signally covert racism.

Marvel does it a LOT where instead of creating a new character they have a "black" replace a white character, who eventually comes back.

In the 60s new characters like Falcon and Black Panther were created, which is not racist because they are whole and unique characters. These "black" Name of White Superhero are extremely racist.

In addition, almost no other race is featured. There's never an Asian Green Lantern, Captain America, Spiderman, Thor, but always black people.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
Dec 9, 2013
12,621
6,962
805
Hollywood sought out white directors for decades. That's not racist?
Just because we lived in times where only white people were getting the best jobs doesn't mean we should be heading in the opposite direction now and prevent them from getting work because of their skin color. Everyone should be getting a fair shot based on their qualifications and talent.
 

Azurro

Member
Jun 11, 2018
2,414
4,329
450
They aren't new properties though, they weren't popular until 2008 and 2010 but they still weren't original properties. People angry about black super heroes who are usually white argue that original characters should be used. It's a huge box office risk to create a new hero just for the big screen.

I love that you can push your agenda and nobody can complain. Congrats.

I love Hollywood. I love Naughty Dog. I love Joe Biden. The Party is Love.
 
Last edited:

sol_bad

Member
Jan 17, 2006
6,785
4,905
1,730
Just because we lived in times where only white people were getting the best jobs doesn't mean we should be heading in the opposite direction now and prevent them from getting work because of their skin color. Everyone should be getting a fair shot based on their qualifications and talent.

I agree with this, everyone should have a fair shot. But there have been movies made for very specific white actors, as in, if the actor didn't sign on the movie wouldn't be made. There have been countless examples of this happening throughout filmic history. Movies have been made with specific actors in mind, specific white actors in mind.
I don't see a problem if the same happens with minority actors.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DeafTourette

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Apr 23, 2018
5,884
6,802
850
I hate how Hollywood constantly practices Tokenism which is virtual signally covert racism.

Marvel does it a LOT where instead of creating a new character they have a "black" replace a white character, who eventually comes back.

In the 60s new characters like Falcon and Black Panther were created, which is not racist because they are whole and unique characters. These "black" Name of White Superhero are extremely racist.

In addition, almost no other race is featured. There's never an Asian Green Lantern, Captain America, Spiderman, Thor, but always black people.
Why not Asian Superman? This is very racist by WB

Well..there's precedent for an Asian Superman...Kong Kenan ... The Superman of China (and a member of the Superman family ... Like Steel is a member}


 

TheAdlerian

Banned
Apr 18, 2021
122
52
125
Well..there's precedent for an Asian Superman...Kong Kenan ... The Superman of China (and a member of the Superman family ... Like Steel is a member}


That's okay though if he's a new character and has his own look and personality.

I didn't know about this character but as long as he's not called "Superman" that's okay with me.

If he is "Superman" and he isn't used much now, then it's Tokenism.
 

Blade2.0

Member
Dec 3, 2018
1,805
1,942
475
That was stupid casting, but that film was made in 1956.
I mean, it still happens. That one with Emma stone as the Hawaiian girl and Ghost in the shell with Scarlett Johansson. Might not happen as often as before, but the issue hasn't evaporated to nothing, either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DeafTourette

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Apr 23, 2018
5,884
6,802
850
That's okay though if he's a new character and has his own look and personality.

I didn't know about this character but as long as he's not called "Superman" that's okay with me.

If he is "Superman" and he isn't used much now, then it's Tokenism.

He had his own title. And he WAS called Superman... Though it was spelled Super-Man ...

Also, Calvin Ellis's kryptonian name is KalEl ... Not Kal-El. Still I hope they're going with Val-Zod.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Apr 23, 2018
5,884
6,802
850
Also... There were black directors in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. Robert Townsend is one who might have directed a better Meteor Man had he had major studio backing/money.
 

TheAdlerian

Banned
Apr 18, 2021
122
52
125
He had his own title. And he WAS called Superman... Though it was spelled Super-Man ...

Also, Calvin Ellis's kryptonian name is KalEl ... Not Kal-El. Still I hope they're going with Val-Zod.
JEEZ!

I don't get the lack of creativity.

Superman comics have many other Kryptonians and so there's a variety of people to choose from, so there is no reason for it.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Apr 23, 2018
5,884
6,802
850
JEEZ!

I don't get the lack of creativity.

Superman comics have many other Kryptonians and so there's a variety of people to choose from, so there is no reason for it.

Calvin Ellis is the President on his Earth and comes from Vathlo Island on Krypton. Not exactly a black Clark Kent.
 

nkarafo

Member
Nov 30, 2012
16,543
8,227
1,070
Movies have been made with specific actors in mind, specific white actors in mind.
You had us in the first half.

Yes, movies have been made with specific actors in mind. But i highly doubt their skin color had anything to do with it. Pretty sure Terminator 2 was made with Arnold in mind. But does his skin color had anything to do with it?

And it's not like black actors didn't enjoy the same treatment. You are saying that big movies weren't written with actors like Eddie Murphy or Denzel Washington in mind? The fact that these actors represent minorities had absolutely nothing to do with anything.

All you needed was to be a big, successful actor. Be a big, successful actor and movies would be made for you. Your skin color (or gender) had nothing to do with it.

The difference is that, nowadays, skin color (and gender) seems to be the defining factor for many racist/sexist directors/producers.
 
Last edited:

Ten_Fold

Member
Jan 18, 2017
2,508
2,202
490
This is dumb, don’t they got other ACTUAL black DC characters like static they could make? Making superman black won’t change nothing, maybe get them a few more sales smh.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shaqazooloo

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Apr 23, 2018
5,884
6,802
850
It will probably be about slavery or something. They do love to winge about slavery. Should make for great night out at the cinema (y)

You never answered my question... "Who is 'they'?"
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Apr 23, 2018
5,884
6,802
850
This is dumb, don’t they got other ACTUAL black DC characters like static they could make? Making superman black won’t change nothing, maybe get them a few more sales smh.

They have ACTUAL black alternate universe Supermans
 

evolvaer

Member
Dec 30, 2019
75
105
245
Chicago
I hate how Hollywood constantly practices Tokenism which is virtual signally covert racism.

Marvel does it a LOT where instead of creating a new character they have a "black" replace a white character, who eventually comes back.

In the 60s new characters like Falcon and Black Panther were created, which is not racist because they are whole and unique characters. These "black" Name of White Superhero are extremely racist.

In addition, almost no other race is featured. There's never an Asian Green Lantern, Captain America, Spiderman, Thor, but always black people.

I can say the biggest fixation in this country when it comes to race is black/white disparity.
So whether you hate that, believe in it, think it's a joke, it makes sense they would race swap main characters to black.

No one is talking about native american rights, which you could argue have an equally unique story as americans of african descent in this country and how they were treated.
 

TheAdlerian

Banned
Apr 18, 2021
122
52
125
I can say the biggest fixation in this country when it comes to race is black/white disparity.
So whether you hate that, believe in it, think it's a joke, it makes sense they would race swap main characters to black.

No one is talking about native american rights, which you could argue have an equally unique story as americans of african descent in this country and how they were treated.
You should read about "Tokenism" because it's not about "rights" but rather it's a form of racism.

A writer wants to "virtue" signal and so they decide to stick and "N-word" in a story to look like they like and care about "N-words".

I used "N-word" to make my point.

Steven King used a couple "Magical Negros" in stories. A Magic Negro is a racist character that is meant to "honor" N-words. The Magical Negro is a generally uneducated black who is lesser than white characters but teaches them a lesson because they have "wisdom" "magical knowledge" or "street smarts" that real blacks don't have.

The Magical Negro allows white to think that blacks are "doing okay" and don't need help with education and so on because "they be known sheet".

So, an author like Steven King literally sits there and thinks "I will score some points by putting an N-word in my story. I know what I'll do, I'll make them magic and have them teach everyone a lesson!" and he ends up doing the same thing other racist writers have done.

So, tokenism and the magical negro go hand in hand.

In comics it's really horrible because they stick a "black" in a white role, to say they did it, and then bring the white character back later.

You will also notice that in lot of adventure stories on TV, etc there's a lot of mute superwomen, and Asians. That's because the writer cannot think of dialogue for these characters. They are token females who are "amazing" and "mysterious" but are really tokens.

There's a wiki page about Tokenism.

Not learning about the past means one is doomed to repeat it and it is very bad in comics, especially Marvel.
 

TheAdlerian

Banned
Apr 18, 2021
122
52
125
This is dumb, don’t they got other ACTUAL black DC characters like static they could make? Making superman black won’t change nothing, maybe get them a few more sales smh.
I hate to say it, but it seems like the "woke" conspiracy stuff that always fails at the box office.

Why would you invest in a female Ghostbusters when everyone instantly hated the idea, you then spend all that money making it, it fails, and it's so obvious it would.

Go woke, go broke, is a legit saying.

So, since there's been a lot of such failures, why make a black Superman? People hated Superman Returns because he didn't always act like the character should, so how will a black Superman go over.

I didn't see Fantastic four due to the black guy, as I always loved the comic. That movie failed horribly.

It would make sense to make a film about an actual black character that everyone likes. They have to WANT to fail with this movie.
 

TheAdlerian

Banned
Apr 18, 2021
122
52
125
I always laugh when Pedowood spends a metric shit-ton of money on an inevitable failure.
Why do they do it?

I swear, I can spot a failure film within minutes and good ones too. I could save and make Hollywood billions.

Obviously, I am not the only person. If you look at Star Wars the new ones were obviously going to be woke and heavily so, but they kept going with it and didn't stop. However, the people in charge of Mandolorian knew what was wrong and made sure they made it properly and although it's a TV show, it's much better than the movies. That's because the people making it knew how to make it.

Hollywood seems to be focused on making movies that fail and are obnoxious out of some kind of mission to do so.

I don't get the motive since there's so much money to lose.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Torrent of Pork

Torrent of Pork

Gold Member
Aug 29, 2018
4,577
9,757
630
36
Bartow, Florida, USA
Why do they do it?

I swear, I can spot a failure film within minutes and good ones too. I could save and make Hollywood billions.

Obviously, I am not the only person. If you look at Star Wars the new ones were obviously going to be woke and heavily so, but they kept going with it and didn't stop. However, the people in charge of Mandolorian knew what was wrong and made sure they made it properly and although it's a TV show, it's much better than the movies. That's because the people making it knew how to make it.

Hollywood seems to be focused on making movies that fail and are obnoxious out of some kind of mission to do so.

I don't get the motive since there's so much money to lose.
Shove a sex toy up you own ass, remove the shit-covered dildo, and then convince yourself it smells like daisies. Only then will you be in the mindset of a Pedowood creature.

Edit - These aren't real human beings, they are plastic people like those who get voted into political office
 
Last edited:

teezzy

Fantastik Tuna
Mar 18, 2020
9,409
23,432
980
People who are bothered that Superman is black are silly poopyheads

Just give me a dope movie plz
 
  • Like
Reactions: sol_bad

teezzy

Fantastik Tuna
Mar 18, 2020
9,409
23,432
980
Because writers, companies and the vast majority of people who focus on racial stuff wanting this or that are too lazy to come up with new material.

Easy to sit in front of a PC and complain on Twitter for change. But not eager enough to do something yourself being part of the change.

No, because "new superhero" doesn't quite carry the marketing weight and guaranteed ROI as "black superman" does. Just look at the buzz already

It's all money. These are fictional characters controlled by shareholders and corporate blowhards.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sol_bad

TheAdlerian

Banned
Apr 18, 2021
122
52
125
No, because "new superhero" doesn't quite carry the marketing weight and guaranteed ROI as "black superman" does. Just look at the buzz already

It's all money. These are fictional characters controlled by shareholders and corporate blowhards.
I disagree.

It's buzz about "black" not how awesome the story will be.

Fantastic Four had the same buzz and it failed.

In addition, I don't mean a new superhero for film, I mean an existing black superhero.
 

LRKD

Member
Nov 11, 2020
148
211
280
Just because we lived in times where only white people were getting the best jobs doesn't mean we should be heading in the opposite direction now and prevent them from getting work because of their skin color. Everyone should be getting a fair shot based on their qualifications and talent.
Lots of talk in voice acting about how white people can't voice black characters, so despite them perhaps being exactly what the director and writer had in mind for the character, they now have to give up the role to make room for Black VA's. The most obvious recent one being Cleveland Browns VA making a big virtue signaling show of happily stepping away from the role.
But what about Phil LaMarr? Voice of Samurai Jack, a Japanese character? Shouldn't he be forced to stop voicing the character to make room for a Japanese VA? Of course not, anyone should be able to voice any character regardless of the actors race, or the characters race. Phil LaMarr is an amazing voice actor, and I love hearing more of him. It'd be a damn shame to take him off of any role. So why is it only made a big deal, one way? but not the other?

I remember reading some voice actors complain about this, after all now you won't be able to voice some really cool characters as a black man, your role will usually just be reduced to token black character, since now if this were to be taken across the industry you would no longer get to play Samurai Jack, or whoever. It's absolutely ridiculous, can only Asian Americans dub Anime now?
Any person should be able to voice any character. In the world of voice acting, voice is the only thing that should matter. Voice acting roles should be done, and in some case's have in fact have been done blind.


I think the line isn't clear outside of the world of acting though, it isn't just a voice, looks matter too. In the '94 Flintstones movie Rosie O'Donnell got the role of Betty because of how well she captured the voice of Betty, but everyone and there grandma complained about how terrible she was as Betty in every other way. It's often listed as one of Hollywood's worst casting choices of all time. Visuals do matter on characters that have a distinct, predefined representation. Rosie O'Donnell would do amazing as a voice actor for Bettie, but not as an actor for Bettie. So it is not a simple as voice acting where only voice matters. So much more matters in the world of acting.

The argument that many of these roles are handed out because of qualifications or talents has no real backing, although my argument admittedly has no more backing then yours. It feels like Hollywood is just pushing some sort of propaganda. Like a modern day, hidden take on Blaxploitation, take a white character, make them black and then sell it to African Americans and SJW's as brave and progressive. More often then not it doesn't feel authentic or organic, just a form of easy advertising and virtue signaling. SJWxploitation?

Especially since so very often you see it with white characters turning black. Don't recall any of them turning Asian, or Mexican. Only one I can really think of that goes the opposite way in recent memories is Scarlett Johansson playing Major Kusanagi in GitS, and everyone screeched about that as whitewashing. It was a big deal for a lot of people to cry how that role should've went to a Asian actor.

So why is it that only one of these things is okay? If you cry about a white character being black you are racist? But you cry about a Asian character turning White you are not racist? I think it is a complex issue that deserves a lot more thought, discussion and argument then anyone is willing to give it.
 

luffie

Member
Mar 13, 2012
275
325
750
luffie.deviantart.com
JJ Abrams is going to burn DC Universe to the ground, and they'll have to prepare for another "reboot".

JJ's gonna include another "mystery box", and have them go from point A to B to C to conviniently find an artifact to piece the final puzzle to beat the final boss. And he's gonna hire the same writer that thinks "Martha" was a moment of genius.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kuncol02

DispatchNinja

Member
Oct 16, 2020
276
736
295
People who are bothered that Superman is black are silly poopyheads

Just give me a dope movie plz

Black Superman is fine, but I feel it’s pretty racist to exclude all other races in the casting process. Why not audition multiple people and pick whoever is best for the job? Now it’s just about picking someone with a certain skin color to replace a character who is traditionally white to appease the woke crowd. Unless they’re going with a black Superman character already introduced before that isn’t Kal-El, then I wouldn’t really see an issue with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sol_bad

luffie

Member
Mar 13, 2012
275
325
750
luffie.deviantart.com
Right, black Superman is really fine, but you know why this is agenda laden? Because it is a requirement that the scriptwriter, the director to be "black" also, all in the name of diversity.

Inb4 the story will feature some sort of white people racism, because you can't empower black people without bring down white people like Wonder Woman did with woman power.

Honestly, a lot of things will ride on this heavily, because if it fails to live up to expectation, then it will shine a very negative light on black talents. And if it does really delivers, white people will also get a beatdown with people saying "I told you so!". Reviewers will of course sing praises to it to score woke points, but either way, the discussion will be chaotic.
 

Clear

Member
Feb 2, 2009
13,115
8,620
1,365
It reeks of performative wokeness by a bunch of rich white people. And it achieves precisely nothing but to stir up racial tensions by its obviousness.

So it can fuck right off.

Consider: a prima-facie example of 70's blaxploitation like Blacula has more integrity than this.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: kruis

FunkMiller

Member
Aug 14, 2014
7,961
24,934
990
I do find it pretty disheartening that they are proceeding with this, and not a John Stewart Green Lantern film. Speaks to the abject and pathetic terror WB have of anything even remotely different or slightly original.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Jun 10, 2004
39,580
65,781
2,525
California
manabyte.com
I do find it pretty disheartening that they are proceeding with this, and not a John Stewart Green Lantern film. Speaks to the abject and pathetic terror WB have of anything even remotely different or slightly original.

They are doing a John Stewart GL film. The GL Corps movie is John Stewart and Hal.

The HBO Max GL series is the other major Lanterns.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DeafTourette

sol_bad

Member
Jan 17, 2006
6,785
4,905
1,730
Black Superman is fine, but I feel it’s pretty racist to exclude all other races in the casting process. Why not audition multiple people and pick whoever is best for the job? Now it’s just about picking someone with a certain skin color to replace a character who is traditionally white to appease the woke crowd. Unless they’re going with a black Superman character already introduced before that isn’t Kal-El, then I wouldn’t really see an issue with it.

I agree with this 100%.
As I mentioned earlier though, it depends on it they have an outline for a script already prepared, a spec script or whatever they call it. If they do, it all depends on what the story is and what sort of themes they want within that story. If a story is already in mind and a black actor is better suited for that story I do not think it's racist.
 
Last edited:
Jun 13, 2018
385
790
480
The unfortunate thing is that this will make a shitload of money because blacks will be out en masse to watch it a la Black Panther.
How dare they!

How unfortunate that the "blacks" will go see a movie that would interest them.

Go fuck yourself honestly.

Anyway, don't care. Superman is a mythic character at this point. The original depiction still exists. At this point, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with them making new versions of the character. It doesn't even matter if this is Kal el or not, naming him or not naming him that is the same thing. The Superman mythos can and should be toyed with. Sadly, it's by JJ Abrams but that's beside the point.
 

Hatemachine

Banned
Mar 7, 2021
297
583
455
How dare they!

How unfortunate that the "blacks" will go see a movie that would interest them.

Go fuck yourself honestly.

Anyway, don't care. Superman is a mythic character at this point. The original depiction still exists. At this point, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with them making new versions of the character. It doesn't even matter if this is Kal el or not, naming him or not naming him that is the same thing. The Superman mythos can and should be toyed with. Sadly, it's by JJ Abrams but that's beside the point.
Blow me. This isn't Hollywood making an earnest attempt to create new stories that appeal to black audiences. It's Hollywood milking an audience that they know will pay for their shit movies, no matter how bad they are. It's modern day blaxploitation. Wake up.
 
Last edited: