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TLOU (Before & After E3 demo) MAJOR differences!

F

FyreWulff

Member
Seems more rebalancing of the AI and adjustments for gameplay. I'm biased however, since Max Dyckhoff worked on the game, and he was behind the Halo 3 and Reach AI, and the Timesplitters 3 AI and multiplayer bots. I'm a fan of the guy's work (minus giving the bots the ability to roll-dodge in TS3 multiplayer)

It's like how when Bungie let the AI be as good as possible, all your ODST/Elite buddies would be the level entirely for you.. there's a balancing act to how 'perfect' you make the AI. It can take a good game from good to frustratingly hard (and not in a good way) or make is a complete bore because your buddies are mopping up everything you take a look at. I don't see anything a lie here, it looks more like parameters were adjusted, not completely removed functionality.
 
MDSLKTR

MDSLKTR

Member
Lol at MASSIVE. Nice thread backfire. Last of us has the best AI in gaming since half life 1 and fear 1. It took that long.
 
S

ScOULaris

Member
Granted, the E3 demo definitely showed off some slightly more advanced AI than what I've seen thus far in the game, but I've never see behavior like what's being shown in this video.
 
M

meta4

Junior Member
MDSLKTR said:
Lol at MASSIVE. Nice thread backfire. Last of us has the best AI in gaming since half life 1 and fear 1. It took that long.
Click to expand...

Half life AI was nothing special. Fear was awesome. Yeah this is def up there after Fear. I wonder why we have not had this much AI scripting before? Must be shit hard to do. I really hope next gen has a massive improvement in AI more than anything else really.
 
A

amstradcpc

Member
meta4 said:
Half life AI was nothing special. Fear was awesome. Yeah this is def up there after Fear. I wonder why we have not had this much AI scripting before? Must be shit hard to do. I really hope next gen has a massive improvement in AI more than anything else really.
Click to expand...

Half Life 1 soldiers AI was really astounding.HL 2 not so...
 
R

robertsan21

Member
Hopefully this wont happen on PS4.
TLOU was brilliant and an amazing ride, but when seeing this comparasing video it could have been even better.
 
A

amstradcpc

Member
Authoritative Shark said:
Seems more rebalancing of the AI and adjustments for gameplay. I'm biased however, since Max Dyckhoff worked on the game, and he was behind the Halo 3 and Reach AI, and the Timesplitters 3 AI and multiplayer bots. I'm a fan of the guy's work (minus giving the bots the ability to roll-dodge in TS3 multiplayer)

It's like how when Bungie let the AI be as good as possible, all your ODST/Elite buddies would be the level entirely for you.. there's a balancing act to how 'perfect' you make the AI. It can take a good game from good to frustratingly hard (and not in a good way) or make is a complete bore because your buddies are mopping up everything you take a look at. I don't see anything a lie here, it looks more like parameters were adjusted, not completely removed functionality.
Click to expand...

And where do the responsibles for HL 1, Fear and Halo 1 work now?.
 
A

Alienous

Member
It turned what looked like a dynamic enemy system into the standard type of enemies. "I have a 2x4, so I'm gonna rush him", "I have a Molotov, so I'm gonna throw it", "I have a rifle so I'm gonna hang back".

Listen mode also killed the opportunity for enemies to hide behind walls. I didn't use it, but I get the sense that enemies waiting for you to walk by go toned town. Smaller details like Joel taking the bullets out of a revolver would have really elevated the experience, but the animations seem toned down.

The Last of Us is still amazing, but the E3 demo is clearly what they strived to achieve. It probably just proved too difficult to implement.
 
V

Valtýr

Member
I played the game on Hard and experienced very little of this during my playthrough. The only time the AI surrendered was when I hit them a few times. No melee enemies ever backed down when I had a shotgun aimed at them. Even when they were the only one left.
 
Breakfast at Noon

Breakfast at Noon

Member
i experienced many times the things in the demo specially them legging it, this guy has just picked moments of dumbness which does happen. and humans in lou are pretty crap on hearing you stealth, clickers are evil on survival you have to be major slow.

one thing that annoys is when ellie is running round attracting no one while your stealthing lol
 
F

F#A#Oo

Banned
I knew something was off...lol

I can't believe ND sugar coated their E3 demo...

I guess it's true that games look and play better when under development but when the final crunch happens things get downscaled and toned down...
 
B

BruceLeeRoy

Banned
F#A#Oo said:
I knew something was off...lol

I can't believe ND sugar coated their E3 demo...

I guess it's true that games look and play better when under development but when the final crunch happens things get downscaled and toned down...
Click to expand...

I love this commentary from people that haven't even played it.
 
M

Mafro

Member
I never experienced anything like that in my playthrough. It's a shame, as it would have made the combat much more interesting, especially with stuff like the unarmed enemies running away and hiding.
 
Z

zma1013

Member
Eh, some of that shown in the video was the AI glitching, not "dumbed down." I've seen it on a couple of occasions where the AI would simply break and the guys would just stand there even when I'm clearly in sight range walking right in front of them. I wouldn't call that dumbed down, I'd call that unintended glitching.

Yes they are fearless in that the dudes will often run at you without worrying about their own safety, that seems true enough but I know I've heard at least a few times where they will call out that I have a gun and they will even say "get him" whenever I pulled the trigger and didn't have any ammo in it. I guess they may not always follow what they're saying but they do indeed say that stuff.
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
Alienous said:
I was desperately waiting for this moment, but it never came.
Click to expand...

Happened to me once on Hard.


I just did a quick play through on survivor of the same area, I saw enemies running away at the sight of the gun, the same enemies after hearing I was out of bullets started charging, pulled a shotgun and missed on purpose, he ran way again. Saw enemies begging for life, charging from behind with a pipe, hiding in cover and grabbing me when I got near, etc.

I'll record a video in a bit.

People need to play the game instead of judging by cherry picked youtube videos.
 
Z

zoukka

Member
I should've shit more fools just to see the AI reactions. I pretty much killed everyone by strangling and with the bow so I missed a lot of the enemy interactions it seems.
 
D

Dunkers92

Member
Metalmurphy said:
Happened to me once on Hard.


I just did a quick play through on survivor of the same area, I saw enemies running away at the sight of the gun, the same enemies after hearing I was out of bullets started charging, pulled a shotgun and missed on purpose, he ran way again. Saw enemies begging for life, charging from behind with a pipe, hiding in cover and grabbing me when I got near, etc.

I'll record a video in a bit.

People need to play the game instead of judging by cherry picked youtube videos.
Click to expand...

This
 
B

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
I remember early on in the first few hours I was choking an enemy out and his buddy stood literally 20 feet away looking at us and not doing anything. That's when I knew the AI wasn't all that it was cracked up to be. It happened countless times throughout the game.

Fantastic game but a little overrated just like the Uncharted trilogy.
 
A

amstradcpc

Member
Metalmurphy said:
Happened to me once on Hard.


I just did a quick play through on survivor of the same area, I saw enemies running away at the sight of the gun, the same enemies after hearing I was out of bullets started charging, pulled a shotgun and missed on purpose, he ran way again. Saw enemies begging for life, charging from behind with a pipe, hiding in cover and grabbing me when I got near, etc.

I'll record a video in a bit.

People need to play the game instead of judging by cherry picked youtube videos.
Click to expand...

The truth is that the game AI is so varied that qualifying it in one or another way is very much dependat on the context in which you are in the game. That 2 people experience very different AI behaviours in the same location only talks wonders about the AI.
 
Z

zma1013

Member
I played it on hard and I certainly do recall the enemy AI being fairly smart. If I'm shooting at them they would often stay behind cover, sometimes just waiting there until I made some sort of move or perhaps they were waiting until one of their buddies got behind to flank. Generally anyone with guns was smart and used cover and whatnot, but as I said before I did experience the suicidal melee guys. Perhaps they had to do that because they had melee weapons which don't exactly lend themselves to doing damage from afar. It also seems like enemy aggression and tactics change depending on their numbers. If they have a lot of people, they'll come at you in a more aggressive manner, if they have few people the exact opposite where they'll hide.
 
Sakura

Sakura

Member
I don't think the AI is bad, but it's not particularly good either. You can just throw random bottles to get through just about any encounter. Or you have allied characters standing right next to enemies and talking to you, which doesn't alert the enemy, and that's kind of immersion breaking. You can also strangle dudes pretty close to other enemies and they don't seem to notice. When actually in combat the AI seems the same as any other third person shooter.

The infected AI is probably the worst, though I suppose that is to be expected. They make it out so that clickers are supposed to be formidable, but all I do is throw a bottle on a ground, they all run to the broken bottle, then a molotov on top of them, and they all burn. Some more will even come to run into the fire for me.
 
S

sappyday

Member
I'm guessing they just couldn't pulled it off in the long run on the PS3. Hopefully their PS4 projects have this level of AI.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Enemies do search drawers, maybe not that particular enemy anymore, but they definitely do that in other areas. The AI pretty much do everything that was displayed on the E3 demo. The dummy in the video just thinks that level is going to play out exactly the same.
 
B

BruceLeeRoy

Banned
Sakura said:
I don't think the AI is bad, but it's not particularly good either. You can just throw random bottles to get through just about any encounter. Or you have allied characters standing right next to enemies and talking to you, which doesn't alert the enemy, and that's kind of immersion breaking. You can also strangle dudes pretty close to other enemies and they don't seem to notice. When actually in combat the AI seems the same as any other third person shooter.

The infected AI is probably the worst, though I suppose that is to be expected. They make it out so that clickers are supposed to be formidable, but all I do is throw a bottle on a ground, they all run to the broken bottle, then a molotov on top of them, and the all burn. Some more will even come to run into the fire for me.
Click to expand...

Did you play on hard cause that wasn't my experience at all.

The bottle trick doesn't work like that when I played. The range of "sound" that emits from the crash is really limited and will pull in only 1 or 2 clickers at most for me. Plus if I then throw a moltov to burn the 1 or 2 that I pulled in the rest move quickly to my general area and start searching around aggressively. If you throw a bottle and they run to investigate it and find nothing they return immediately to where they last were and broaden their movement pattern while traveling faster so if you weren't able to put a good bit of distance between you and them your dead.

I have never had Ellie or another character be standing talking to me while a hunter was in the area. The only out of immersion that like that, that I have experienced is when your traveling with 2+ people around clickers and you can't make a peep and they are knocking bottles over and running full sprint all over the place.

jett said:
Enemies do search drawers, maybe not that particular enemy anymore, but they definitely do that in other areas. The AI pretty much do everything that was displayed on the E3 demo. The dummy in the video just thinks that level is going to play out exactly the same.
Click to expand...

If the game put up a false representation of the E3 demo I can assure you all that Jett would be burning this thing to the ground.
 
S

ScOULaris

Member
I wonder how many people in this thread who are buying into that video's claims have actually played the game. The game has very good AI, especially for the human enemies. Tons of the things that the video claims were removed from the final game are still in there. I've seen them with my own eyes.
 
Z

zma1013

Member
Sakura said:
I don't think the AI is bad, but it's not particularly good either. You can just throw random bottles to get through just about any encounter. Or you have allied characters standing right next to enemies and talking to you, which doesn't alert the enemy, and that's kind of immersion breaking. You can also strangle dudes pretty close to other enemies and they don't seem to notice. When actually in combat the AI seems the same as any other third person shooter.

The infected AI is probably the worst, though I suppose that is to be expected. They make it out so that clickers are supposed to be formidable, but all I do is throw a bottle on a ground, they all run to the broken bottle, then a molotov on top of them, and they all burn. Some more will even come to run into the fire for me.
Click to expand...

Yeah the bottles and bricks were a bit too powerful in all regards and they where everywhere in the game, I'll agree with that.

As for the other things; enemies not seeing your allies is immersion breaking but I'd imagine that's the better alternative than to have them blowing your cover every 10 seconds, then we'd all be complaining how they ruin the stealth in the game. As it stands, seems like a gameplay decision meant to improve the gameplay while sacrificing realism.

The strangling is similar in that it's supposed to be a stealth kill and while it isn't exactly realistic that you could do it right beside someone, it seems to be once again related to being a gameplay decision. They built they game rules to say that's a stealth kill whether you're 50 feet from another enemy or 5 feet and they stick by their rules. Perhaps they could have implemented a sort of range system where it only works at a certain distance away to make it more real but if they do then they should explain it.
 
A

amstradcpc

Member
jett said:
Enemies do search drawers, maybe not that particular enemy anymore, but they definitely do that in other areas. The AI pretty much do everything that was displayed on the E3 demo. The dummy in the video just thinks that level is going to play out exactly the same.
Click to expand...

If Jett says so it must be it ;)
 
A

aristotle

Member
ScOULaris said:
I wonder how many people in this thread who are buying into that video's claims have actually played the game. The game has very good AI, especially for the human enemies. Tons of the things that the video claims were removed from the final game are still in there. I've seen them with my own eyes.
Click to expand...

Just by reading this thread alone you can tell exactly who has never played the game and who is trolling. Those of us who have played it know that this entire OP & topic is bullshit. It's pathetic.
 
Sakura

Sakura

Member
BruceLeeRoy said:
Did you play on hard cause that wasn't my experience at all.

The bottle trick doesn't work like that when I played. The range of "sound" that emits from the crash is really limited and will pull in only 1 or 2 clickers at most for me. Plus if I then throw a moltov to burn the 1 or 2 that I pulled in the rest move quickly to my general area and start searching around aggressively. If you throw a bottle and they run to investigate it and find nothing they return immediately to where they last were and broaden their movement pattern while traveling faster so if you weren't able to put a good bit of distance between you and them your dead.

I have never had Ellie or another character be standing talking to me while a hunter was in the area. The only out of immersion that like that, that I have experienced is when your traveling with 2+ people around clickers and you can't make a peep and they are knocking bottles over and running full sprint all over the place.



If the game put up a false representation of the E3 demo I can assure you all that Jett would be burning this thing to the ground.
Click to expand...

I beat the game on normal and am currently playing on survivor.
If you are decently far enough away, I've never had clickers come searching for me from where I would throw the molotov. They just run to where the sound is, which happens to be the broken bottle, or the other clickers burning/screaming or whatever.

As an example of immersion breaking stuff, early on in the game when you are going to get Robert, there is a part where there are two guards. One in one room, one in the next. Tess is like, literally right behind a guard waiting to take him down once I take down the other, but she will still talk to you even if it's a whisper. It looks weird. Or the parts when you are sneaking around human enemies looking for you, and Ellie will still talk to you saying random things like 'go right' or 'Jesus Christ Joel' etc even though there are enemies actively searching for us nearby. It's just weird.
 
M

MrCookiepants

Member
When I played that section, one of the enemies did run off when he was unarmed with no backup. I also saw an enemy searching drawers at one point in the game. Obviously they're not going to search every drawer they come across.
 
S

Sn4ke_911

If I ever post something in Japanese which I don't understand, please BAN me.
While TLoU is incredible i always knew the E3 demo was a bit fishy.
 
Z

zma1013

Member
BruceLeeRoy said:
Did you play on hard cause that wasn't my experience at all.

The bottle trick doesn't work like that when I played. The range of "sound" that emits from the crash is really limited and will pull in only 1 or 2 clickers at most for me. Plus if I then throw a moltov to burn the 1 or 2 that I pulled in the rest move quickly to my general area and start searching around aggressively. If you throw a bottle and they run to investigate it and find nothing they return immediately to where they last were and broaden their movement pattern while traveling faster so if you weren't able to put a good bit of distance between you and them your dead.

I have never had Ellie or another character be standing talking to me while a hunter was in the area. The only out of immersion that like that, that I have experienced is when your traveling with 2+ people around clickers and you can't make a peep and they are knocking bottles over and running full sprint all over the place.
Click to expand...

I played on hard as my first playthrough and the bottle trick certainly does work. On more than one occasion I've killed 3 or more infected enemies, including clickers by throwing a brick and then throwing a molotov where I threw the brick. Maybe a possible spoiler,
The last area in the game in the underground tunnel with all the buses and stuff, I killed 6 infected with 1 molotov with 2 of those being clickers.
 
B

BruceLeeRoy

Banned
Sakura said:
I beat the game on normal and am currently playing on survivor.
If you are decently far enough away, I've never had clickers come searching for me from where I would throw the molotov. They just run to where the sound is, which happens to be the broken bottle, or the other clickers burning/screaming or whatever.

As an example of immersion breaking stuff, early on in the game when you are going to get Robert, there is a part where there are two guards. One in one room, one in the next. Tess is like, literally right behind a guard waiting to take him down once I take down the other, but if she will still talk to you even if it's a whisper. It looks weird. Or the parts when you are sneaking around human enemies looking for you, and Ellie will still talk to you saying random things like 'go right' or 'Jesus Christ Joel' etc even though there are enemies actively searching for us nearby. It's just weird.
Click to expand...

That stuff never bothered me because she is always whispering. I can't remember that part with Tess but Ill look for it on Survivor. I have had Clickers come searching for me immediately if they didn't die from the Moltov and especially if it was just a bottle I broke so I don't know why its different for you.
 
V

Vashetti

Banned
WoodenLung said:
I take my 10/10 back now.
Click to expand...

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