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TLOU II 2nd year anniversary!

Swift_Star

Member
Ludonarrative dissonance was all the buzz a few years back but TLOU2 should be the poster child for the term considering the theme the game tried to golf club you over the head with (sorry, Joel). My favorite story sequence in TLOU2 was the museum flashback as it highlighted what made the original work so well and what the sequel sorely lacked. Joel and Ellie are fine characters but their relationship and the chemistry of the voice actors really made an also ran story work. None of the new supporting cast came close to the likes of Bill.

Beyond the mess of a story and weaker cast of characters, it's fun game and a technical marvel.
Disagree with the ludonarrative point since it’s clear that they really killed a lot of people canonically in both games. This is not like uncharted.
 

bender

What time is it?
Disagree with the ludonarrative point since it’s clear that they really killed a lot of people canonically in both games. This is not like uncharted.

The folly of revenge and the choice to not kill Abby has no teeth considering the body count that Ellie racks up along the way. Unless that pile of corpses is inconsequential, like say a surgeon Joel killed to rescue Ellie at the beginning of the original. I'm not sure why you are brining up Uncharted.
 

Rykan

Member
Ludonarrative dissonance was all the buzz a few years back but TLOU2 should be the poster child for the term considering the theme the game tried to golf club you over the head with (sorry, Joel).
What part of TLOU has Ludonarrative Dissonance?

The folly of revenge and the choice to not kill Abby has no teeth considering the body count that Ellie racks up along the way. Unless that pile of corpses is inconsequential, like say a surgeon Joel killed to rescue Ellie at the beginning of the original. I'm not sure why you are brining up Uncharted.
That's not what Ludonarrative Dissonance is. Ludonarrative Dissonance is when the theme of the game clashes with the actual actions of the character during gameplay. The reason Uncharted is brought up is because Uncharted is the most well known example of it: It's a feelgood adventure story with happy likeable hero - like characters...that butcher hundeds of other people for the sake of some treasure and it doesn't seem to affect them at all.
 
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bender

What time is it?
Ludonarrative Dissonance is when the theme of the game clashes with the actual actions of the character during gameplay.

Ellie's narrative choice directly clashes with her actions throughout the game. It's exactly what Ludonarrative Dissonance is and why that major theme of TLOU2 doesn't work for me. I've got a lot of other niggles as well but it all comes down to ND not recapturing, outside of a flashback, what made TLOU special in the first place.
 
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vivftp

Member
The folly of revenge and the choice to not kill Abby has no teeth considering the body count that Ellie racks up along the way. Unless that pile of corpses is inconsequential, like say a surgeon Joel killed to rescue Ellie at the beginning of the original. I'm not sure why you are brining up Uncharted.

What pile of corpses? Ellie is only forced to kill 11 people in the game. You as the player can bypass many encounters and most of the enemies if you choose to

 

Rykan

Member
Ellie's narrative choice directly clashes with her actions throughout the game. It's exactly what Ludonarrative Dissonance is and why that major theme of TLOU2 doesn't work for me. I've got a lot of other niggles as well but it all comes down to ND not recapturing, outside of a flashback, what made TLOU special in the first place.
Sorry mate, but that's not at all what Ludonarrative Dissonance is. Elly does set out to kill abby at the end, but she changes her mind during the final struggle, which the entire game leads up to. You might not like that plotpoint. You might think that it contradicts her previously made decisions, but that's something entirely different than Ludonarrative Dissonance.
 

bender

What time is it?
What pile of corpses? Ellie is only forced to kill 11 people in the game. You as the player can bypass many encounters and most of the enemies if you choose to


11 would make you a pretty successful serial killer I'd bet a lot of money that the vast majority killed way more than that. Now let's bask in the glory of the cut scenes depicting her kills of Vita girl and the pregnant woman.

Sorry mate, but that's not at all what Ludonarrative Dissonance is. Elly does set out to kill abby at the end, but she changes her mind during the final struggle, which the entire game leads up to. You might not like that plotpoint. You might think that it contradicts her previously made decisions, but that's something entirely different than Ludonarrative Dissonance.

Disagree but you are welcome to your interpretation.
 
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vivftp

Member
11 would make you a pretty successful serial killer I'd bet a lot of money that the vast majority killed way more than that. Now let's bask in the glory of the cut scenes depicting her kills of Vita girl and the pregnant woman.

Ellie was fine with letting those people live until they attacked, and at that point from her perspective it became self defense. Of course she put herself into those scenarios as part of her overall goal to find Abby. Also keep in mind that the WLF and Seraphites had shoot on sight policies in place and both Factions attacked her first so it's not like they were a bunch of innocents that evil Ellie mowed down.
 

bender

What time is it?
Ellie was fine with letting those people live until they attacked, and at that point from her perspective it became self defense. Of course she put herself into those scenarios as part of her overall goal to find Abby. Also keep in mind that the WLF and Seraphites had shoot on sight policies in place and both Factions attacked her first so it's not like they were a bunch of innocents that evil Ellie mowed down.

Play more stealthy bro bro.

And that counts infected too. I don't think infected should count as human.

Fungus are people too!
 
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bender

What time is it?
Oh I make sure everything dies when I play this game. And yup, all the story points made perfect sense to me 😃

It's not about being confused or making sense, I understand what ND was trying to convey. I just think they failed spectacularly as it didn't work for me at all. Nor did the Joel/Ellie pararallels with Abby and...let me google his name...Lev. Maybe I could just never forgive the original premise of the revenge plot with the idiotic decision of no less than three groups from Ellie's camp head to Seattle and somehow plot armor that dangerous trek unscathed only to all meet up with one another.
 

Aggelos

Member
I need TLOU 3 to match this.



Well, we're getting close to that... Although the existence of TLOU3 is still speculative.



TLOU1 Remake






CGI TLOU2 Commercial made by MPC













More screens from the aforesaid CGI TLOU2 commercial.


 

vivftp

Member
It's not about being confused or making sense, I understand what ND was trying to convey. I just think they failed spectacularly as it didn't work for me at all. Nor did the Joel/Ellie pararallels with Abby and...let me google his name...Lev. Maybe I could just never forgive the original premise of the revenge plot with the idiotic decision of no less than three groups from Ellie's camp head to Seattle and somehow plot armor that dangerous trek unscathed only to all meet up with one another.

Sorry it didn't work for you. It all absolutely clicked for me in a spectacular way which contributes to this game being my GOAT

As for them making the journey and meeting up, well Joel and Ellie crossed the whole country and survived in the first game. The majority of the country is decimated so crossing large swaths of unpopulated land isn't too crazy.

As for meeting up, they used enemy radio communications to learn of disturbances in other parts of the city and went there, which is how they met up. It's not like they just wandered about and ran into each other at the mall or something 😋
 

bender

What time is it?
As for them making the journey and meeting up, well Joel and Ellie crossed the whole country and survived in the first game. The majority of the country is decimated so crossing large swaths of unpopulated land isn't too crazy.

Tess, Henry and Sam all died on that journey. David and Marlene too if you want to count at the hands of Ellie and Joel. And where the fuck is my Bill side adventure?

As for meeting up, they used enemy radio communications to learn of disturbances in other parts of the city and went there, which is how they met up. It's not like they just wandered about and ran into each other at the mall or something 😋

Enemy radio communications isn't going to give the location of their makeshift hideout.
 
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You will believe that a skinny teenage lesbian can grenade 100 dogs, shoot 500 hundred humans and kill a pregnant woman.

Naughty Dog, you are AH-MAZING!
Same way Drake kills 1000 people per game and survives. Or Joel on TLoU 1, or John Wick in...any of his movies. It's not possible or realistic for a human being to do all that

Your problem is that all that unrealistic stuff comes from a woman in TLOU 2
 
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vivftp

Member
Tess, Henry and Sam all died on that journey. David and Marlene too if you want to count at the hands of Ellie and Joel. And where the fuck is my Bill side adventure?

And they very well may have had to kill folks to get to Seattle and back. That wasn't too consequential to the story of the game so they didn't go into it. Plus of course the game was massive enough as is without making us perform the journey ourselves. Not to mention they wanted the player to be emotional and fired up at that particular point in time so they immediately skipped us over to Seattle so we wouldn't have time to cool down

The game pretty aptly shows that the Jackson crew are better trained than the folks they come across in Seattle. They're all more capable and that helps to explain their ability to survive.
 

bender

What time is it?
And they very well may have had to kill folks to get to Seattle and back. That wasn't too consequential to the story of the game so they didn't go into it. Plus of course the game was massive enough as is without making us perform the journey ourselves. Not to mention they wanted the player to be emotional and fired up at that particular point in time so they immediately skipped us over to Seattle so we wouldn't have time to cool down

The game pretty aptly shows that the Jackson crew are better trained than the folks they come across in Seattle. They're all more capable and that helps to explain their ability to survive.



If Tess got "got" then I have little hope of Dina and Jesse both making that journey unscathed. The decision making to make sperate journeys in the first place is more offensive and is counter to the notion of them being better trained.
 

vivftp

Member


If Tess got "got" then I have little hope of Dina and Jesse both making that journey unscathed. The decision making to make sperate journeys in the first place is more offensive and is counter to the notion of them being better trained.

Sorry friend, that really is just you imagining things. We don't know the conditions and circumstanced of their journey and you're trying to fill in the blanks when it's not needed at all.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
I wonder if you made the exact same comments about, say, the Uncharted series in which a straight treasure hunter and his senior buddy kill legions of highly trained private military soldiers while joking around. Otherwise it would be pretty weird to single out this game and specifically emphasize the fact that she is gay.

I'm just kidding, I'm not actually wondering because I know the answer.
He basically just explained video games lol

Lara Croft would've died in the 1st Tomb Raider game going by his logic, unless we are to believe that an adventurer would kill a T-Rex 😂
 

Alan Wake

Member
Not a bad game but not great either. To me it's the biggest disappointment ever. A shame after the amazing first game.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
TLOU Part II is the most advanced game ever created: The realistic death animations, gore and cuts, AI reacting to other AI getting killed, melee can change depending on the enemy being near a wall, table, etc. Enemies being able to fan off fire if the molotov doesn't land directly on them, enemies being able to search for you under trucks and other objects, they also move to get the best angle on you for an open shot

This isn't everything but there's so many nice touches that adds to the realism and immersion
 

rofif

Gold Member
Well, we're getting close to that... Although the existence of TLOU3 is still speculative.



TLOU1 Remake






CGI TLOU2 Commercial made by MPC













More screens from the aforesaid CGI TLOU2 commercial.
The models in tlou2 model viewer are cgi quality.
 

mxbison

Member
Seeing a lot more positive opinions about this game lately. It seems that a lot of the salty wounds caused by Abbys biceps have finally healed.

It's a great game. Best combat encounters in the whole genre IMO, I still remember a bunch of them like it was yesterday.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
Does every unrealistic game bother you that much?

Untealistic, no, but the issue becomes really apparent in titles that indeed aim for being as realistic and believable as possible. In a fantasy setting you have your typical magic ingredient which allows for explaining/forgiving a lot of stuff that wouldn't/shouldn't happen in real life, in sci-fi setting you have all the fancy tech to back everything up, and so on, but in a modern, down-to-earth settings writing is what makes or breaks that believability. Same goes for movies if we're at it, way more so than in video games.
 

Ellery

Member
Still hard to believe this game came out on the PS4 and ran beautifully on the OG 1.8 TFlops old PS4 hardware while I am sitting here with my PS5 and RTX 3080 hoping for new games to be close in quality to TLOU2.

The people at Naughty Dog are the very best in the industry and so far Neil Druckmann has an amazing track record as a director.

I've praised this game enough so we don't need to list it all again and by now even the people that haven't played it know that this game is basically the pinnacle in near everything.

Thank you Naughty Dog and hope the PS5 generation is as successful or even more so than the PS3 and PS4 gens.
 

Banjo64

Member
is that true?
If anything - there seem to be less and less distinct official websites and publications
So here’s some random grabs.

In 2005;


Resident Evil 4 won the most GOTY awards by a landslide with 35 awards out of the total 64.

In 2010;


Red Dead Redemption narrowly beat out Mass Effect 2, taking 111 awards out of the total 298.

In 2020, when TLoU 2 won;


It took 321 votes out of the available 639.

As you can see on the links, the number of both media outlets’ and readers choice’ awards is ballooning.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
I’m putting off my 60FPS replay until after TLOU Remastered comes out, then I’ll play again back to back. Really a fantastic game, one of the best I’ve ever played even if the narrative isn’t as tight as the first’s
 

Banjo64

Member

I would also argue that that total number, whilst undoubtedly impressive, is only 50% of the total available awards. Resident Evil 4 took 55% of the total available awards.

If Ocarina of Time released on the N64 and there were 639 awards up for grabs, it’d basically take a clean sweep.

That’s why saying ‘TLoU 2 is the most awarded game in history’ might be true, and impressive, but it’s not really relevant considering there were only like 20 publications when games like OOT launched.
 
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Three

Member
You will believe that a skinny teenage lesbian can grenade 100 dogs, shoot 500 hundred humans and kill a pregnant woman.

Naughty Dog, you are AH-MAZING!
GAF: How is this girl killing so many people being skinny and small
Also GAF: Why is abby so muscly

Honestly this nitpicking bullshit about the game is annoying.
No James Bond couldn't take on an army on his own but he does.
If you want the game to be realistic play with permadeath hardest settings then come back and complain how the game is too annoying or something.
 
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Three

Member
but in a modern, down-to-earth settings writing is what makes or breaks that believability. Same goes for movies if we're at it, way more so than in video games.
Disagree hard. movies take more liberties than games because in a game failure does happen whereas in a movie I know the main character is not going to die and kill off entire armies. Besides in TLOU you're worried that a lesbian can kill 100 men but not the fact that you can use a special ability to see enemies through walls?

It's a video game and this nitpicking is ridiculous because people don't seem to apply it to any other game.
 
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MagnesD3

Member
Game plays good and looks good with a mixed bag of a story with bad pacing and weak side characters. It's probably one of the most blatantly manipulative games I've seen in trying to get you to like abby (which it failed in btw) and blatant social brownie point pushing (Im sorry but I will never believe Linn existing in an apocalypse setting, immersion killed).

I will say that storywise it has a few great moments and the final act SAVED me from completely hating the story, the theme is weak but whatever it's still overall a good game worth playing just prepare to be furious if you care about the original and have a brain.
 
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Heimdall_Xtreme

Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
Great game... I like both campaigns, Ellie and The sections of Abby.

Although the SWJ inclusion scenes and that scene in a church ruin me... They completely ruin the experience for me.

And the dog scenes.

Then I think about how Sony Playstation, thanks to this game... It has a hypocritical thought.
 

mxbison

Member
Untealistic, no, but the issue becomes really apparent in titles that indeed aim for being as realistic and believable as possible. In a fantasy setting you have your typical magic ingredient which allows for explaining/forgiving a lot of stuff that wouldn't/shouldn't happen in real life, in sci-fi setting you have all the fancy tech to back everything up, and so on, but in a modern, down-to-earth settings writing is what makes or breaks that believability. Same goes for movies if we're at it, way more so than in video games.

In RDR2 you shoot like 50 guys per mission and people call it the most immersive game ever.

That comments emphasis on it being done by a skinny lesbian pretty much says it all. Wouldn't be an issue if it were a hot waifu I guess.
 

Ni7r

Neo Member
Great production value, incredible visuals. Poor story, extremely manipulative in the way it wants you to like Abby. Some scenes are so fucking cheap.
Shocked to see how many people on a nerd forum consider this game to be one of the best of all time tbh.

Part 1 is _way_ better.
 
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