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Analysis TLOU2 on a pro proves why a 4TF lockhart will hold next gen back.

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Here me out guys this isn't a stretch honest.

Graphically tlou2 looks fantastic and runs smooth for 30fps. After playing some of it on a pro and realising the difference between that and the base version had me thinking about the different tiers of units for next gen.

The pro version is simply up-resed to 1440p with a few other graphical enhancements you would usually find on PC. However, essentially the same graphics. Now the GPU in the pro (and X) are much beefier than the base Ps4 pro nearly 4 times and x nearly 6 times. Yet this game looks the fucking same pretty much on both consoles, why is that?

Well if this game was designed from the ground up with the pro in mind, the graphics could have much better, especially if they targeted 1080p.

With a forced 4TF lockhart the Series X and ps5 will simply be the mid gen refreshes out of the gate for 3rd parties and that fucking sucks. 3rd party games will graphically have to run at 1080p on that 4tf machine and the games will be forced to be built with that in mind. Big deal we can then play the same games at 4k..

4k image quality and actual graphics are different and I would much rather see graphics built for a 12TF machine running at 1080p than graphics built for a 4TF then up-scaled into 4k resolution. We already know native 4k is such a huge waste of resources.
 
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Ohh it will. Devs say it all the time. Nintendo consoles are the living, breathing example of this. Doesn't mean good games can't be made on inferior hardware tho...
 
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NickFire

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I mean, yeah, lots of us are worried that devs may target lowest common denominator specs. But to say that has been proven by a single current gen game is a bit of a stretch. Like go go gadget arms stretch.
 

MoreJRPG

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Why are you completely omitting the fact that a good amount of PCs are still below that GPU spec AND are still running on at best Sata SSDs? That’s the real bottleneck.
 
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Unfortunately, it really is not that simple. The X1X and PS4 Pro are systems meant for 4k TVs and are meant to render games either in 4k or close to 4k. So it only makes sense that the next generation of consoles (XSX and PS5) will be using their extra power to target 4k (or resolutions close to that).

And like you said, going for 4k is a waste of power graphically, so why not take the XSX APU design and just make the GPU part smaller so that there can be a cheaper system that will play all the same games just at a lower resolution? The 12TF at 4k will be able to scale down to 4TF at a resolution just above 1080p.

The reality is though, that games are built around the CPU, RAM and now SSD. The GPU is nice and there definitely needs to be support for the same technologies (which there is between Lockhart and XSX) but since resolution is inherently scalable, the end result won't be held back one way or another
 
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Grinchy

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The 360 having a DVD drive and requiring games to run without a hard drive fucked 3rd party efforts during its generation and the series S will hold things back for 3rd parties next gen in some way too.

But hey, MS can say they have a low priced option on the shelves to get moms and dads to wonder why they should spend more on Timmy's Christmas present to get him a competitor's device. And doesn't that excite you? Isn't that worth crippling 3rd party efforts? I think we should enjoy the crippling.
 

Bryank75

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We should really start a petition for next gen releases to all have a 60fps mode at 1440p (mostly).... just sacrifice the resolution.

Unfortunately petitions rarely do anything, still would be good to get voices heard.

Also, TLOU2 doesn't prove anything about tflops....it just proves how talented some of the staff are at ND.
 
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Rikkori

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Well if this game was designed from the ground up with the pro in mind, the graphics could have much better, especially if they targeted 1080p.

Nope. Would've been exactly the same. The difference between PS4 & PS4 Pro is not very big & they're equal in features. The only way it would've been better was if it were a whole new console with new GPU features & better CPU & more ram. aka PS5.
 

Chronos24

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Lockhart at 4tf is still in itself just a rumor. In fact Lockhart in its entirety is still a rumor. I really can't imagine the Lockhart if it does exist being a 4tf machine. Let's wait until or better... If they announce it and it's power before we make judgement. I will however agree with you on Tlou2 being just uprezzed pretty much. Regardless it's a beyond beautiful game.
 

grfunkulus

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Here me out guys this isn't a stretch honest.

Graphically tlou2 looks fantastic and runs smooth for 30fps. After playing some of it on a pro and realising the difference between that and the base version had me thinking about the different tiers of units for next gen.

The pro version is simply up-resed to 1440p with a few other graphical enhancements you would usually find on PC. However, essentially the same graphics. Now the GPU in the pro (and X) are much beefier than the base Ps4 pro nearly 4 times and x nearly 6 times. Yet this game looks the fucking same pretty much on both consoles, why is that?

Well if this game was designed from the ground up with the pro in mind, the graphics could have much better, especially if they targeted 1080p.

With a forced 4TF lockhart the Series X and ps5 will simply be the mid gen refreshes out of the gate for 3rd parties and that fucking sucks. 3rd party games will graphically have to run at 1080p on that 4tf machine and the games will be forced to be built with that in mind. Big deal we can then play the same games at 4k..

4k image quality and actual graphics are different and I would much rather see graphics built for a 12TF machine running at 1080p than graphics built for a 4TF then up-scaled into 4k resolution. We already know native 4k is such a huge waste of resources.

What? NO one playing AAA games on a 12 TF GPU is looking for 1080p. IF you're using a high end graphics card on the PC currently and targeting 1080p, it's only for competitive fps where you're looking to run at 240fps or higher.

We do know that native 4k is a waste of resources in a lot of cases. But to suggest that devs are EVER going to render at 1080p natively and push all of that extra power into effects is asinine. How are you ever going to convince anyone that sub 4k is in developers' interest when game console and TV manufacturers are (stupidly) pushing 8k? We'd be lucky to get the nice compromise of 1440p and 120/144fps. I doubt that's going to be an option that's available on triple AAA titles for any of the first couple years of either console's life cycle, and that's a damned shame.
 

LordKasual

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Why are you completely omitting the fact that a good amount of PCs are still below that GPU spec AND are still running on at best Sata SSDs? That’s the real bottleneck.

Harddrive speed isnt a bottleneck for any game in this generation though
 

Nikana

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Jan 26, 2016
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well you shouldn't have. If you red on, you'd be surprised of the content of the post.
I read it and still wasnt surprised. Your post neglects whats actually rumored to be in the guts of Lockhart. Which is superior in every way to the PS4 Pro. Theres more than just TF to look at.
 

M1chl

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We should really start a petition for next gen releases to all have a 60fps mode at 1440p (mostly).... just sacrifice the resolution.

Unfortunately petitions rarely do anything, still would be good to get voices heard.

Also, TLOU2 doesn't prove anything about tflops....it just proves how talented some of the staff are at ND.
This is good post.
 
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If your grammar wasn't so awful, maybe he would have?

"Hear" not "here."

"Read" not "red."
 
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M1chl

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What? NO one playing AAA games on a 12 TF GPU is looking for 1080p. IF you're using a high end graphics card on the PC currently and targeting 1080p, it's only for competitive fps where you're looking to run at 240fps or higher.

We do know that native 4k is a waste of resources in a lot of cases. But to suggest that devs are EVER going to render at 1080p natively and push all of that extra power into effects is asinine. How are you ever going to convince anyone that sub 4k is in developers' interest when game console and TV manufacturers are (stupidly) pushing 8k? We'd be lucky to get the nice compromise of 1440p and 120/144fps. I doubt that's going to be an option that's available on triple AAA titles for any of the first couple years of either console's life cycle, and that's a damned shame.
Not the mention unrealistic. GPU's still have, Pixel/Texel output still in some form constrained, so there is a point when you legitimaly cannot have "nicer pixel" and run it at any resolution while having the luxury to have complete freedom, not the mention man power, etc, it's not CPU... Yeah compute comes a long way but you are still limited by some aspect.
 

Diddy X

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A game that is supossed to be great and all runs at 30fps?? Lol

Ontopic: let's just wait and see
 
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Genx3

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We should really start a petition for next gen releases to all have a 60fps mode at 1440p (mostly).... just sacrifice the resolution.

Unfortunately petitions rarely do anything, still would be good to get voices heard.

Also, TLOU2 doesn't prove anything about tflops....it just proves how talented some of the staff are at ND.

Why not have a Variable 4K 60FPS resolution and frame rate?

Gears 5 has a 4K60 Vres on the XB1X. If XB1X can handle it than PS5 and XSX can easily handle it and with a 50% boost in efficiency over GCN RDNA2 HW should be hitting 4K at 60FPS most of the time.
 

yurqqa

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I suspect Lockhart will have the same architecture, so lower resolution and no raytracing could be the recipe for adapting the games for Lockhart.

So the developers could target the highest denominator.

But I understand it's a bad solution, because NO DRAMA !
 
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Chiggs

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That's good. I would stick to memes because:
  1. It's borrowed wit, which takes all the pressure off you to deliver any.
  2. Fewer words means it's unlikely that you'll screw it up like you do your atrocious posts.
 
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SSfox

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It will only hold back games if they will be design around Lockhart as lead platform, which won't be the case fortunately, so.
 

01011001

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why is it so hard for people to understand that Lockhart will use RDNA2, and Zen2, just like the Series X.

all that's different is the amount of CUs (and maybe the clocks slightly)

this means, if a game runs at 4k60 on a Series X, you would theoretically only need a 3TF RDNA2 gpu in order to run that same game at 1080p60

graphics of course never scale down like this 100% perfectly, so 4TF gives them a bit of leeway

with the same CPU, and roughly the same amount of RAM (it could have a bit less RAM due to lower resolutions not necessarily needing super high res textures) and a GPU that is scaled down accordingly, a system like Lockhart wouldn't hold back anything.

now let's use a really edge case example, let's say some idiot developer can't get their shitty Unity Engine game running well even at 1440p30 on Series X.
that would mean, at worst you'd get a 720p30 game on Lockhart.

a good developer that would target 1440p on purpose on the other hand could use AI upscaling on both machines to reach 4k and 1080p respectively even at lower native resolutions.
on PC we've seen that even sub 720p native resolutions can look pretty good when AI reconstructed to 1080p.

so as long as you can't come up with a plausible scenario where Lockhart would hold back a Series X or PS5 game, plz stop with this nonsense -_-

if Lockhart is real and the way it leaked, it will have all the GPU features of Series X, it will have the same CPU and the same SSD. it will just be less capable in terms of fidelity.
PC tests have shown this to be the case.
 

Shifty1897

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I think Lockhart is a weird choice, releasing a next gen console weaker than your current one. I assume they are not just dropping the price of the Xbox One X and using it as the bottom tier next gen console because of engineering mistakes or a shift in priorities for the next gen but it's still a weird situation Microsoft have out themselves into.

If it releases at $250 or less a lot of kids are going to get it for Christmas though.
 
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That's good. I would stick to memes because:
  1. It's borrowed wit, which takes all the pressure off you to deliver any.
  2. Fewer words means it's unlikely that you'll screw it up like you do your atrocious posts.
Ok I can see your triggered. When I wrote ‘red’ I did it on purpose hence the facepalm, because you clearly didn’t get it, even though it was quite obvious.

oh and for someone crying about grammar you should reread your last sentence, it’s grammatical incorrect.
 
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