To the "Destiny 2 looks like DLC" crowd. Why?

#1
Maybe I'm missing something here but this seems like a really silly complaint.

Just off the top of my head

A complete rework of at least 3 sub classes
A complete rework of the weapon loadout
An entirely new story
Improved Graphics
4 entirely new locations
A slew of new strikes
A slew of new MP maps
A reworking of game currency
A reworking of multiplayer across the board
LFG systems and Guilds
Friendly AI characters during gameplay
Improvements to how activities can be launched
Entirely new loot
At least 3 new weapon archetypes
+more I'm very likely missing

Why does Destiny 2 look like DLC but Uncharted 2 or Borderlands 2 or Halo 2 or Mirrors Edge 2 or basically any other sequel doesn't "look like DLC"

Even in Destiny's big DLC Taken King we only got 1 new location and some mild system quality of life improvements. Destiny 1 was certainly a game that evolved but not too the degree that D2 is changing things.

Additionally why does it matter if it looks like "DLC" or more specifically an Expansion.

World of Warcraft gets similar priced "expansions" frequently and that's a game that require a monthly sub to play. People don't really complain then.

I'm basically just trying to understand the perspective of people who feel this is more like a DLC than a Sequel and what basis they are using for comparison
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
#5
I thought the original game was pretty weak overall so just giving more of that isn't exactly telling me I need to jump into the sequel.
 
#6
People expect a new IP for some ungodly reason and not a sequel in which its normal to refine and change things around and add minor tweaks like this, at least in this genre of games.

Also concerned trolling and video game anxiety.
 

DOWN

Junior Member
#10
Destiny 1 was way smaller than they first claimed so you would think Destiny 2 not being cross gen would actually sell their original scale of vision

Instead it doesn't look much better than the last DLC and much of it sounds like tweaks to the cross gen original in what we have learned is not much of a story appeal brand and instead is supposed to wow us with gameplay and world content to explore
 
#11
I think the UI looking extremely similar goes a long way when it comes to giving people that impression, honestly.
The UI in D1 was eminently minimalist and functional though.

Maybe you're right and it does affect perception, but the whole ain't broke don't fix it thing comes to.mind.
 
#13
The reason it feels like Destiny 1.5 and not Destiny 2 is simple. All those things you mentioned are mostly cosmetic and not necessarily vast gameplay differences. The things they added like Guided games, LFG in game, Matchmaking with everything...those SHOULD have been in Destiny even if patched in later but never were.

Destiny 2 = All the mistakes we made with Destiny 1 we fixed and added some new maps, and new weapons but the game looks and plays the same: Enjoy!
 
#19
I think the UI looking extremely similar goes a long way when it comes to giving people that impression, honestly.
Yeah that's what I think, I'm not one of those "it looks like DLC" people but if someone was just glancing at it they would think it's the first one.

That said, I think the fact that they didn't fully show just how big, populated, and full of things to do the new worlds are means that people don't really have that good of an idea.
 
#21
Now compare that list to a WoW expansion.
The wow/destiny comparisons are stupid no matter who's arguing it. It's like people flip back and forth between destiny is a full mmo, destiny isn't an mmo, or destiny is a hybrid. If it's indeed a hybrid why compare it to the most successful, longest running, content rich mmo out there? Makes no sense.
 
#22
I honestly don't care, I stopped playing D1 because I was tired of a lot of things, but D1 also got a lot of things right. My understanding is that they're adressing a lot of the issues I had with the game, so I'm excited. If you feel different, that's too bad, I hope you find a game you can enjoy.
 
#24
The reason it feels like Destiny 1.5 and not Destiny 2 is simple. All those things you mentioned are mostly cosmetic and not necessarily vast gameplay differences. The things they added like Guided games, LFG in game, Matchmaking with everything...those SHOULD have been in Destiny even if patched in later but never were.

Destiny 2 = All the mistakes we made with Destiny 1 we fixed and added some new maps, and new weapons but the game looks and plays the same: Enjoy!
It's not "some new maps and some new weapons." It's literally all new maps and all new weapons. Like it's a different game. You can be reductive about any game. Dark Souls 3 is just Dark Souls 1 with some new maps and some new bosses.
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
#28
Destiny 1 was way smaller than they first claimed so you would think Destiny 2 not being cross gen would actually sell their original scale of vision

Instead it doesn't look much better than the last DLC and much of it sounds like tweaks to the cross gen original in what we have learned is not much of a story appeal brand and instead is supposed to wow us with gameplay and world content to explore
This. It was initially sold as a wide open, go everywhere, see everything game. Then we got small, narrow world areas. A lot of people thought the sequel would finally bring it to that scale, and it seems that's not the case.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
#30
People don't know what Destiny's expansions actually contained.

I also think the people saying it has a "lot of stuff that should have been in the first" is pretty funny since that's the textbook approach for a sequel

I think the UI looking extremely similar goes a long way when it comes to giving people that impression, honestly.
I would be upset if they changed the UI. It's one of my favorite ever and something I closely associate with my Destiny experience.
 
#31
It looks nothing like an expansion. It's a sequel. I bet a new race is being kept under wraps and we don't know that yet. The only thing kept from destiny 1 is the gunplay and rightfully so. I dont care if animations are the same for reload. They were the same in halo.
 
#33
This excellent post from jwk94 sums up why.
Clearly different setting and look. That's the problem people have with Destiny 2, the visual identity is far too simular to Destiny 1.

Every uncharted is Nathan Drake shooting stuff or it wouldn't be an Uncharted game. That's it's visual identity. However, with each subsequent entry, Naughty Dog is willing to tweak that visual identity to make it apparent that this isn't the game you just played. Those tweaks could involve different art styles, way new areas, or something ass simple as a change to the hud (this is most apparent in destiny 2).

A similar logic applies to the cod games, although to a lesser extent. They all are clearly cod, but unless you're visiting a vastly different setting (ww1, vs ww2, vs future), they all maintain a largely unchanged visual identity. That's why everyone always says cod games look the same as the last one. Unless you're very attentive and bother to do a quick comparison, you'll probably think the same thing.

So when people say Destiny 2 looks like an expansion they say that because Bungie didn't so much to change the game's visual identity. They prescribed to the " don't fix what's not broken model." That's all fine and dandy when your shooting is top notch like Destiny, but you need to do something to the visuals to make consumers feel like they're not doing the same thing over again.

If you want me to elaborate further, I'd be more than happy to. I typed this on my phone just after waking up, so my thoughts might be all over the place.

Edit :
You can apply the same logic to why people thought the recent 2d Mario games and Splatoon 2 vs Splatoon 1 look so similar.
 
#34
Tbf. you are paying a monthly fee for WoW. Back in the days at least.
Doesn't Destiny have microtransactions by now?
The wow/destiny comparisons are stupid no matter who's arguing it. It's like people flip back and forth between destiny is a full mmo, destiny isn't an mmo, or destiny is a hybrid. If it's indeed a hybrid why compare it to the most successful, longest running, content rich mmo out there? Makes no sense.
The WoW comparison comes from that list of bullet points reading like a WoW expansion. Doesn't matter how much of an MMO it is.
 
#36
this is just me personally:


A complete rework of at least 3 sub classes
-but no new classes at all, still titan warlock hunter. and the same enemies
A complete rework of the weapon loadout
-TRUE!
An entirely new story
-there wasnt one in the first place, IMO. I know its "there" but this is expected
Improved Graphics
-expected, and not that much different, and still 30fps
4 entirely new locations
-i thought destiny vanilla had too LITTLE locations so im hoping these are bigger
A slew of new strikes
-like a dlc
A slew of new MP maps
-like a dlc
A reworking of game currency
-feels like a QOL update
A reworking of multiplayer across the board
-true!
LFG systems and Guilds
-feels like this absolutley should of been added to destiny 1
Friendly AI characters during gameplay
-i guess thats cool but idk not like a huge thing to me
Improvements to how activities can be launched
-also feels like this should of been an update
Entirely new loot
-duh
At least 3 new weapon archetypes
-true!
+more I'm very likely missing
-probably!

the thing is, everyone got what we all expected. there wasnt much announced that felt "new". like a real LEAP. idk
 
#37
It's literally because people don't put any consideration into the fact that Destiny 1's expansions were being built at the same time as Destiny 2, and were probably in fact being used as a way to field test features planned for Destiny 2 in advance. At the very least, it means that features for Destiny 1 DLC and features for Destiny 2 were being developed concurrently, so of course there's going to be overlap. I say this in every Destiny thread that's popped up the last couple of days, but:

Destiny 1 at launch is a more fair comparison to Destiny 2 at launch instead of three years of DLC that was designed simultaneously with the sequel, being compared to the sequel.

It's an iterative franchise. Destiny 2 as we currently see it is going to look foreign to us by 2020, and I bet Destiny 3 looks pretty familiar to Destiny 2 at the end of it's lifecycle.

Destiny changes more and more each year, and it hasn't been that long since Rise of Iron came out, so of course Destiny 2 at launch is going to look familiar. Doesn't mean it'll always be like that.
 
#38
Ask the goof's that think Splatoon 2 is an "expansion/port" of Splatoon
Was about to say. Didn't we have threads about this in regard to another game. Yeah it was Splatoon 2. I'm really curious if any people pushing back on the "Destiny 2 looks like DLC and not a sequel" were in there talking shit about Splatoon 2 not being a sequel. Karma.
 
#39
Doesn't Destiny have microtransactions by now?

The WoW comparison comes from that list of bullet points reading like a WoW expansion. Doesn't matter how much of an MMO it is.
But it's not even in the same stratosphere as wow and at this point since the launch it hasn't tried to be. I think people are still holding on to pre-d1 launch promises that just aren't part of the vision anymore.
 
#41
Maybe I'm missing something here but this seems like a really silly complaint.

Just off the top of my head

A complete rework of at least 3 sub classes
A complete rework of the weapon loadout
An entirely new story
Improved Graphics
4 entirely new locations
A slew of new strikes
A slew of new MP maps
A reworking of game currency
A reworking of multiplayer across the board
LFG systems and Guilds
Friendly AI characters during gameplay
Improvements to how activities can be launched
Entirely new loot
At least 3 new weapon archetypes
+more I'm very likely missing

Why does Destiny 2 look like DLC but Uncharted 2 or Borderlands 2 or Halo 2 or Mirrors Edge 2 or basically any other sequel doesn't "look like DLC"

Even in Destiny's big DLC Taken King we only got 1 new location and some mild system quality of life improvements. Destiny 1 was certainly a game that evolved but not too the degree that D2 is changing things.

Additionally why does it matter if it looks like "DLC" or more specifically an Expansion.

World of Warcraft gets similar priced "expansions" frequently and that's a game that require a monthly sub to play. People don't really complain then.

I'm basically just trying to understand the perspective of people who feel this is more like a DLC than a Sequel and what basis they are using for comparison
I'm a day 1 player with a ton of hours invested into Destiny 1 and I'll be there day 1 for Destiny 2, but...

A complete rework of at least 3 sub classes
(DLC for D1 brought new subclasses)

A complete rework of the weapon loadout
(this is new, but more of a tweak than an overhaul)

An entirely new story
(each DLC for D1 had new story elements)

Improved Graphics
(true, although this is admittedly hard for people at home to see)

4 entirely new locations
(DLC for D1 brought new locations)

A slew of new strikes
(DLC for D1 brought new strikes)

A slew of new MP maps
(DLC for D1 brought new maps)

A reworking of game currency
(they reworked the currency numerous times in D1)

A reworking of multiplayer across the board
(4v4 and the weapon loadouts will certainly change PVP)

LFG systems and Guilds
(Clans have always been there; the in-game LFG system is welcome, but the die-hards didn't have a problem with this any way thanks to the LFG sites. It will be great for newcomers and lapsed Destiny players)

Friendly AI characters during gameplay
(I need to see more of this play out in-game to see if it really brings anything new to the game, the moments seemed heavily scripted from what I saw)

Improvements to how activities can be launched
(not sure what you mean here exactly; need to see more)

Entirely new loot
(DLC for D1 brought new loot)

At least 3 new weapon archetypes
(DLC for D1 brought new weapon types as well, such as swords and sidearms)

Now as I said in the opening, I'm ridiculously hyped for the game and will certainly put many hours into it. But it absolutely feels closer to an expansion than a true sequel...at least based on what we've seen so far.
 
#42
I'm a huge Destiny 1 fan and to me it does basically look like a big expansion. I'm no longer very excited about it but I will still buy it and play it.

edit: I should reword that. Still excited to play some new scenarios and get that loot. It's just that the super excitement to see what they added, how different it will be, etc. is gone because it's basically more of the same.
 
#43
This.

And. Fool me once.... for a lot of people.

Also, the jump from Uncharted to Uncharted 2 was phenomenal.
right, the controls+graphics+maps were a huge improvement.

Destiny 1's controls were almost flawless, and one of the most positively talked about things in the game.

The graphics were already amazing and now they are being upgraded to 4k.

The new maps/zones are removing load times between planets and being increased in overall size.
 
#44
It's literally because people don't put any consideration into the fact that Destiny 1's expansions were being built at the same time as Destiny 2, and were probably in fact being used as a way to field test features planned for Destiny 2 in advance. At the very least, it means that features for Destiny 1 DLC and features for Destiny 2 were being developed concurrently, so of course there's going to be overlap. I say this in every Destiny thread that's popped up the last couple of days, but:

Destiny 1 at launch is a more fair comparison to Destiny 2 at launch instead of three years of DLC that was designed simultaneously with the sequel, being compared to the sequel.

It's an iterative franchise. Destiny 2 as we currently see it is going to look foreign to us by 2020, and I bet Destiny 3 looks pretty familiar to Destiny 2 at the end of it's lifecycle.

Destiny changes more and more each year, and it hasn't been that long since Rise of Iron came out, so of course Destiny 2 at launch is going to look familiar. Doesn't mean it'll always be like that.
This is true, Destiny 2 is essentially the design lessons Bungie has learned from D1 vanilla through TTK/Rise of Iron transposed to a new game built from the ground up with them in mind. It's not going to feel radically different because the game has been evolving for the last three years.

Destiny 2 is Destiny 2. Destiny 1.5 was The Taken King expansion.
 
#45
Honestly I feel like the best comparison to Destiny 2 would be the other D2, Doom 2. All new levels, all new monsters, a new gun, a bunch of new textures to coincide with the city section...but it looks and plays almost exactly like Doom 1 does.

Nevermind that the SSG completely shifts the balance of the game, nevermind that the levels are a wilder mix of blissful excellence and gimmicky stupidity, nevermind that the inclusion of something as simple as the hell knights and the arachnotrons and the undead chaingunners totally changes what you can do as far as building great combat scenarios. It looks like Doom 1 and plays like Doom 1, so it's just more of the same and is a totally skippable experience.
 
#46
Basically some people just spout shit out of ignorance or to be hateful. This shouldnt be surprising really.
Or maybe, just maybe, you could show a lot of us a video of Destiny 1 and Destiny 2 and we wouldn't be able to tell you which is which.

That doesn't have to be a bad thing. But it can help explain this perception
 
#48
A complete rework of at least 3 sub classes
A complete rework of the weapon loadout
An entirely new story
Improved Graphics
4 entirely new locations
A slew of new strikes
A slew of new MP maps
A reworking of game currency
A reworking of multiplayer across the board
LFG systems and Guilds
Friendly AI characters during gameplay
Improvements to how activities can be launched
Entirely new loot
At least 3 new weapon archetypes
+more I'm very likely missing
The Taken King did all of the bolded, and was an expansion. At least The Taken King added a new race (even if it was modified versions of existing races).
 
#50
People don't know what Destiny's expansions actually contained.
An entirely new story
Improved Graphics (after they ditched last gen)
Kind of new locations
A slew of new strikes
A slew of new MP maps
A reworking of game currency
Entirely new loot
New weapon archetypes (sidearms)

So pretty much everything OP mentioned.

Stream showed us nothing new or possible only on "next-gen". Lots of sidequests on planets? Cool, what do they look like? Patrols with NPCs?

Waiting for E3. I spent 1000 hours in Destiny 1, don't want to spend more hours in almost the same game.