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Tom Warren : Hardly anyone has Scarlett dev kits because Microsoft are planning to surprise Sony

MacReady13

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Jun 22, 2018
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Even Spencer have said that streaming can't replace the hardware...where you ever been this year?
With xcloud can you play like the remote play of Sony plus outside home with the Cloud ... Is this a bad idea ? Even Sony have made a streaming feature,playnow,i think is a good idea...and not a bad move...

And why do you think in this preview of xcloud you can play only on mobile and not on PC?

What do you think is the priority for Microsoft to use the xcloud? Mobile, PC,or TV?
Spenser also said him and his team weren't sure whether they'd actually release a console to take over the One X for next generation due to the streaming bullshit.
 

Sycomunkee

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Jan 21, 2019
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You believe the next-gen console will have a 2080Ti-like architecture inside of it? For $499?
Now you’re going to get BOM’d. 😂
Don’t worry, I’ve said the same thing plenty of times. Then someone posts an old Bill of Materials of manufacturing costs for 10+ year old cards and state that you can get a 2080TI In a console for $100.
 
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01011001

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Dec 4, 2018
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The costumer must be surprised....not devs.
yeah... 3000 pictures of the PS5 dev kit and counting... you know, both of these go hand in hand in the days of the internet, smart phones and dev's that seem to not give a shit.
and I bet their surprise will have something to do with Hardware Power, which won't really bother any developer. the worst that can happen is that only first party games will use these hardware features to the fullest at launch.

this could possibly be the RayTracing capabilities for example. maybe Microsoft is planning a massive amount of dedicated RayTracing cores? if that would be it it won't be tragic if developers get dev kits a bit late, the rest of the hardware will be pretty similar to PC and the PS5's hardware anyways. I bet they gave developers target specs and that should be plenty enough info 12month ahead of launch.
 

John Day

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Jan 12, 2018
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Probably Scarlet games at launch might be specced for XOne X at first, except for first party gems and the like.

I don’t think this is sonething new to this industry.
 
May 17, 2018
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By the end of the generation, the PS3 was at 32% marketshare? Do you believe that's what the Xbox One's marketshare will be once this generation ends? The Switch is still selling pretty good.
No at the end of the generation it's probably 110m Ps4 110m Switch and 55m Xbox One, so 20% or slightly below that.
 

Texas Pride

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Feb 27, 2018
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based on the last 2 gens it's now time for sony to fuck up and be out of touch and xbox to have market share again, somehow i doubt that it's gonna be a cake walk like it was with the 7th gen.

Don't see that as a reality at this point. Sony knows what works and what doesn't and they probably won't screw up anything major enough to cause a shift away from them being the dominant force in gaming.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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Cant wait for the 1000+zoom spot the difference
Digital Foundry will be there on day one.

Get ready for Leadbetter and Linneman to say one version is 10x better because during a 1000 frame section of a 50000 frame test, one game had a 2 fps advantage and the POV angle was better by 5 degrees.

If you feel generous, click on their article so Eurogamer gets their nickel from google adsense.
 
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Audioout

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May 26, 2017
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I don't think waiting for your opponent to show their cards then trying to one up them afterwards counts as "surprising" them.
 

junguler

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Don't see that as a reality at this point. Sony knows what works and what doesn't and they probably won't screw up anything major enough to cause a shift away from them being the dominant force in gaming.
i hoping none of them fucks up so badly that the competition gets a free pass when they do wrong by gamers, like when microsoft forced x360 users to pay for online for no reason or sony refusing to accept cross-play for the longest time even when nintendo was okey with it.
 
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H4ze

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Aug 20, 2019
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I say let them fight!

Honestly, I will buy both of them anyway down the line, and I assume most here will do too.

I love the hype-wars before a new generation, would not be the same without.
I know yall love it too, to discuss, to flame, to hype.
 

Gamernyc78

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Jun 11, 2018
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Hasn't Sony already sold 100million PS4s up until this past September? No way they end up with only 110 million sold. At this rate they'll be "at least" 125 million PS4s sold.
I've been saying this for months, idk how ppl do their projections but ps4 easily will surpass 120 million. Tht shit is a given. Ps4 still has another two years of sales. When ps5 releases next year it'll drop down in price and keep selling. A ps4 at 150.00 would do wonders.
 

Gamernyc78

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Jun 11, 2018
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I say let them fight!

Honestly, I will buy both of them anyway down the line, and I assume most here will do too.

I love the hype-wars before a new generation, would not be the same without.
I know yall love it too, to discuss, to flame, to hype.
Very true, also to just guess and envision what the two might bring to the table. The thought of psvr2 alone being wireless has me salivating 😂
 
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01011001

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Lockhart is a good idea if it is well designed.
it needs to have the same CPU specs, 1/4 of the GPU performance, same RAM specs and the same feature set.

this would mean if a game runs at 4k60 on the high end console, it could theoretically run at 1080p60 on Lockhart at basically the same settings. this would be a pretty decent way to release a 1080p and a 4K machine... some people still have a 1080p screen, some run their consoles on 1080p PC monitors for example.
 
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mckmas8808

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Lockhart is a good idea if it is well designed.
it needs to have the same CPU specs, 1/4 of the GPU performance, same RAM specs and the same feature set.

this would mean if a game runs at 4k60 on the high end console, it could theoretically run at 1080p60 on Lockhart at basically the same settings. this would be a pretty decent way to release a 1080p and a 4K machine... some people still have a 1080p screen, some run their consoles on 1080p PC monitors for example.
Too confusing to release this at the same time of Scarlett though.
 

pawel86ck

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Jan 27, 2018
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You believe the next-gen console will have a 2080Ti-like architecture inside of it? For $499?
As I remember Nvidia has admitted Turing GPU were overpriced on purpose. Also keep in mind Sony or MS only need to buy chip / APU itself, because they build entire console for themselves. How much 2080ti chip itself would cost at the end of 2020, without unneccesary tensor cores and in 7nm? I would be not surprised if that would be around 100$.

In the past consoles like xbox classic and x360 already had high end GPU's equivalents. One year before xbox 360 has launched epic has used 2x 6800ultra (more than 1200$ for GPU's alone) in order to showcase UE3 tech demo, while xbox360 run UE3 games on single GPU for the fraction of the cost. If MS wants high end GPU in their console, they will get it. However these days heat and power consumption is a big problem, so I doubt we will see GPU as fast as 2080ti in a console for these two reasons alone.
 
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VFXVeteran

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Nov 5, 2019
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As I remember Nvidia has admitted Turing GPU were overpriced on purpose. Also keep in mind Sony or MS only need to buy chip / APU itself, because they build entire console for themselves. How much 2080ti chip itself would cost at the end of 2020, without unneccesary tensor cores and in 7nm? I would be not surprised if that would be around 100$.
You are coming up with imaginary prices out of your head without facts. The graphics chips on these next-gen consoles are already inside of them and the design specs are locked down (aside from various tweaks and such). We don't know what a 2080Ti will go for at the end of 2020 because it's not here yet. Console makers don't wait until the very last minute to place a chip in a socket. That never ever happens.

In the past consoles like xbox classic and x360 already had high end GPU's equivalents.
That was then. The more concrete evidence is this past generation of consoles. And those cards weren't even close to the high end graphics cards at the time. None of the games showcased through those demos, etc.. ever saw the light of day (i.e. Deep Down, SW1313, UE4 tech demo, Witcher 3, Quantum Dreams' demo, etc..)

Every generation we get fans that want the best hardware for the cheapest price and every time, the wishes don't reflect the reality. It's OK if the consoles are 16G RAM, 1080+ GPU performance, small-scale RTX cores, quick 1T SSD drive, etc.. why can't that be enough? If everyone was on the same page with the specs, we could move on to discussing what we can see from such hardware. I'm in the process of writing up in the Graphics Tech thread, where we are now with some of the graphic limitations and what we should be expecting from next-gen games.

Stay tuned.
 

ethomaz

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Games are ALWAYS made on PCs, the dev kits are used for testing/tweaking the final code. And yeah, in times where literally a single person can tweak the settings for a particular platform within a say or two (like they do for Pro/X), the dev kits are almost obsolete those days.
Maybe that is why we have all these bugs and break code in games today lol
 

pawel86ck

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You are coming up with imaginary prices out of your head without facts. The graphics chips on these next-gen consoles are already inside of them and the design specs are locked down (aside from various tweaks and such). We don't know what a 2080Ti will go for at the end of 2020 because it's not here yet. Console makers don't wait until the very last minute to place a chip in a socket. That never ever happens.



That was then. The more concrete evidence is this past generation of consoles. And those cards weren't even close to the high end graphics cards at the time. None of the games showcased through those demos, etc.. ever saw the light of day (i.e. Deep Down, SW1313, UE4 tech demo, Witcher 3, Quantum Dreams' demo, etc..)

Every generation we get fans that want the best hardware for the cheapest price and every time, the wishes don't reflect the reality. It's OK if the consoles are 16G RAM, 1080+ GPU performance, small-scale RTX cores, quick 1T SSD drive, etc.. why can't that be enough? If everyone was on the same page with the specs, we could move on to discussing what we can see from such hardware. I'm in the process of writing up in the Graphics Tech thread, where we are now with some of the graphic limitations and what we should be expecting from next-gen games.

Stay tuned.
Yes, I'm only quessing modified 2080ti chip would cost Sony/MS around 100$ at the end of 2020 (without tensor cores chip would be 1/3 smaller, and 7nm+ would shrink it even more). If my estimation is totally incorrect, then people here can correct me and link some facts, but remember, I'm only talking about chip price itself, so no other components and middleman costs.

The cost of PS4 APU chip (radeon 7850/7870 GPU and with jaguar CPU) in 2013 was 100$, so around 50$ for GPU, and 50$ for CPU. Cant you see console manufacturers get these chips for dirt cheap?

You say wishes dont reflect reality, yet in the past MS already build two consoles with high end GPU's, so that's reality obviously 😀. Of course I realize back then GPU heat and power consumption wasnt a limiting factor like it was already in PS4/xbox one. Sony and MS could no longer consider high end GPU's in their consoles, and especially after economic collapse in 2008-2009. Right now I also dont expect to see GPU as fast as 2080ti in consoles, but only because of 2080ti heat and power consumption, not so much price like you trying to say.
 
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LittleBusters

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Jun 4, 2018
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Microsoft will never let Sony catch them off-guard for a console generation launch. However the damage of this gen is so profound, in the 3x sales of PS4 > XBone, plus the fact that Sony has multiple 10 million+ franchises and XBone created none. Even Halo 5 bombed.
 

bitbydeath

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Nov 25, 2015
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Lockhart is a good idea if it is well designed.
it needs to have the same CPU specs, 1/4 of the GPU performance, same RAM specs and the same feature set.

this would mean if a game runs at 4k60 on the high end console, it could theoretically run at 1080p60 on Lockhart at basically the same settings. this would be a pretty decent way to release a 1080p and a 4K machine... some people still have a 1080p screen, some run their consoles on 1080p PC monitors for example.
Weaker GPU than the X?
 

Mass Shift

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Jun 12, 2019
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Weaker GPU than the X?
If Lockhart is the rumored 4+ TF GPU then it will already be more powerful and capable than the X. It would actually perform somewhere around 7 GCN TFs and have a Zen processor.

This is why I say MS should slap this thing in a Surface kickstand design with an Xbox Controller of your choosing and launch it around mid- 2021 when it would be much more affordable.. This may have always been the plan, full BC from OX to XO and Scarlett XCloud streaming.

This would work.
 
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yurinka

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If it's true that at this point "hardly anyone has Scarlett devkits" then it means that hardly any AAA 3rd party devs are interested on releasing console exclusive games for it during its release windows.

Because the console is releases next year and AAA devs need several years to develop a game and even if they use multiplatform engines they need the devkit during at least the last year for optimizations, tweaks and bugfixing.

But who knows, maybe its hardware is so similar to PS5 that almost don't need Scarlett specific work for multiplatform games. Because yes, unless you are making a small pixel art game for a very powerful hardware, hardware specs matter and AAA devs need to know them if they want to do a good job optimizing the games for them.
 
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JohnnyFootball

The Last of Us may be third person, but it is hardly third person.
Jan 20, 2014
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The S was out for years before the X was though. Selling them at the same time, for the first time will cause too much unnecessary confusion.
No. S was out just over 1 year before the X. S was released in August of 2016, while the X was released in Nov. of 2017.
 

FranXico

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Dec 7, 2010
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If it's true that at this point "hardly anyone has Scarlett devkits" then it means that hardly any AAA 3rd party devs are interested on releasing console exclusive games for it during its release windows.

Because the console is releases next year and AAA devs need several years to develop a game and even if they use multiplatform engines they need the devkit during at least the last year for optimizations, tweaks and bugfixing.

But who knows, maybe its hardware is so similar to PS5 that almost don't need Scarlett specific work for multiplatform games. Because yes, unless you are making a small pixel art game for a very powerful hardware, hardware specs matter and AAA devs need to know them if they want to do a good job optimizing the games for them.
Third parties can develop on PCs with target specs. Porting from PC to Xbox still is easier than to PS.
 

Rolling_Start

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Jul 25, 2019
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Lockhart is a good idea if it is well designed.
it needs to have the same CPU specs, 1/4 of the GPU performance, same RAM specs and the same feature set.
I agree, but you'd probably want more than 1/4 of the GPU as things like geometry processing, and GPU compute for AI pathfinding etc wouldn't scale directly with resolution. Around 1/3 of the GPU has been rumoured before and seems reasonable, I guess.

Thing is .... I get a bad feeling they may try and save on the CPU too, and cut down to one 4 core CCX. Would still be faster and easier to extract performance from than the CPU in the X1X (and about twice as fast as PS4/X1 CPU), but would set an intermediate baseline compared to Anaconda. Thing is, if MS need games to run on quad core PCs for the next few years anyway, could they think that this is a reasonable tradeoff for a cheap console?

Four cores and RX5500~ish power, on a 200 mm^2 chip and 12 GB of ram? Might allow you to replace the X1 and X1X early on, while batting at the very high end with Scorpio ...?
 

Ar¢tos

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If it's true that at this point "hardly anyone has Scarlett devkits" then it means that hardly any AAA 3rd party devs are interested on releasing console exclusive games for it during its release windows.

Because the console is releases next year and AAA devs need several years to develop a game and even if they use multiplatform engines they need the devkit during at least the last year for optimizations, tweaks and bugfixing.

But who knows, maybe its hardware is so similar to PS5 that almost don't need Scarlett specific work for multiplatform games. Because yes, unless you are making a small pixel art game for a very powerful hardware, hardware specs matter and AAA devs need to know them if they want to do a good job optimizing the games for them.
Porting PC to Xbox is easier because the APIs are similar. Porting PC to PS5 is not as easy because ps5 will, most likely, still use GNM, not Directx. The porting process alone can destroy the performance and create a shitton of bugs requiring a full re-optimization and debugging.
 

Bandi

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Dec 19, 2016
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Plz Microsoft killed tht shit wayyyy before Stadia with its bs, hot air exponential power bs followed by Crackdown 3 garbage.
huh? this is something totally different and non-games dont know shit about what they talked about there.. only nerds and neckbeards, like you.