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Tom Warren to the anti Lockhart

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~Fake

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What has Tom said that you feels lacks integrity?
He said Lockhart have a slightly slower CPU speed than Series X and next said Lockhart and Series X will have the same CPU speed.

I mean, he have the devkit? He know someone who have the devkit? If so, why he keep changing his information? Is almost like he consult the Next Gen thread here for gather information.
 
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Lone Wolf

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i'd argue the opposite
XSX GPU is 4 times more powerful , 4 times more resolution will not require 4 times the prossing power ''i geuss''
Wouldn’t that be 3 times as powerful? Lockhart would have a third of Series X GPU power.
 
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Genx3

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He said Lockhart have a slightly slower CPU speed than Series X and next said Lockhart and Series X will have the same CPU speed.

I mean, he have the devkit? He know someone who have the devkit? If so, why he keep changing his information? Is almost like he consult the Next Gen thread here for gather information.
Tom was the 1st to leak out Lockhart. So we know he has some insider.
Maybe the original plan was to have a slightly down clocked CPU. Possibly devs didn't like this because it might complicate development a little and they asked if they could match the speed of XSX' CPU.🤷‍♂️
 
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~Fake

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Tom was the 1st to leak out Lockhart. So we know he has some insider.
Maybe the original plan was to have a slightly down clocked CPU. Possibly devs didn't like this because it might complicate development a little and they asked if they could match the speed of XSX' CPU.
So, tell this for him. He could make up very clear instead of talking about a speculated console with don't even get reveal yet.
 

Nikana

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Tom was the 1st to leak out Lockhart. So we know he has some insider.
Maybe the original plan was to have a slightly down clocked CPU. Possibly devs didn't like this because it might complicate development a little and they asked if they could match the speed of XSX' CPU.
It's very possible at the time it was leaked that it wasn't a final dev kit either, or they didn't have Lockhart kits and it was simply a profile on series X kits.
 
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Hobbygaming

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I've seen Xbox's on sale for under 200 euro here in Ireland... which is insane in what they call 'the rip-off republic'.
Releasing a cheaper Xbox will not move the needle, it results on more dev time being put into a platform that sells the least software and has a subscription service that undermines new releases......

It all comes together to make it the most developer unfriendly platform and I believe developers already are voicing their annoyance.
Yeah, you can have the cheaper option but people have to want it over the PS5 or XSX. Cheap doesn't automatically mean it'll sell
 
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DrScissorsMD

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Don’t really understand the FUD tbh, seems like 90%+ of the concern is from Sony fans, it’s not even going to affect you guys. If Xbox themselves already have 3rd parties making games for next-gen only, then it stands to reason all other 3rd parties have the option to do the same and if they release on LH too, they likely would’ve already been aiming for cross gen for more sales. From a business perspective it makes sense to MS to try and have a full-fat option and a cheap option too so anyone saying “bUt WhY dOeS iT eXiSt?!?” are being disingenuous. Chill out, Sonybros, it’s not going to affect you.
 

Drewpee

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Is still serves as an anchor.

Why not release Cyberpunk on Xbox 360? Developers have been building PC titles on multiple GPUs for decades.... right?

Oh that's right, because it would never run on the 360 and before long a game will come along that will never run on Lockheart and if a ton of Lockhearts are sold then that new game will get neutered fundamentally.
Why couldn't a version of Cyberpunk be made that would work on 360 hardware? I haven't read anything about the game that makes me think it wouldn't be possible.

I dont think you helped your argument.
 
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Jun 13, 2014
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Your average gamer (or parent of gamer) wont know the specs and will be tricked into buying a gimped next gen console.
But I have been told that these average gamers/parents won't be gimped because they already buy the best and latest iPhone every year. There will be no confusion.

Honestly, I'm more worried about devs having to optimize for multiple systems.
 
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Jan 6, 2019
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You guys still underestimating the success of a cheap console!? We've seen this shit before and it works! Why do some folks kick the bush around this when you have no intention of owning one in the first place. Obviously it's not aimed towards you.
Edit: Whoops, wrong place for my comment.
 
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quest

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Imagine believing having to share resources among making two different versions is the same as only making one version.
Im not a fan of the lockheart as leaked but this is silly. Microsoft studios have to already have to account for many versions since all their games are on PC. This won't harm nothing slower PC hardware will hold back series x more than lockheart. I rather had lockheart be 6tf with 9.5 gigs of useable ram that make for a nice entry device.
 
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GetemMa

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Guys this really isn't that complicated. You can have a work bench and swap out the video cards and still play the same games if the rest of the tech is the same.

A work bench with a 2080TI will play games in 4K and if you swap it with a 2060 it will play the same games in 1080p

The differentiating factor is the number of Compute Units that each console uses.

Number of pixels rendered, also known as resolution, is the biggest factor in performance in nearly all circumstances. the rest of the image quality stuff is just gravy.

So there is no reason this would hold back game design when all you are doing is making a 1080p version. Especially when the rest of the architecture is identical.

I'm not interested in either, but all this skepticism to what warren is saying is a little silly.
 
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Dec 29, 2018
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Just scrolling through this guy's twitter.

Every single post is either about Microsoft or Xbox. He is senior editor at The Verge. Is he part of Xbox team at that website or something ?? Or is he meant to be reporting on other consoles too?
 

Nikana

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Just scrolling through this guy's twitter.

Every single post is either about Microsoft or Xbox. He is senior editor at The Verge. Is he part of Xbox team at that website or something ?? Or is he meant to be reporting on other consoles too?
He covers Microsoft and Apple mostly.
 
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FranXico

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I don't need the Xbox fanboyism of the Editor of The Verge to know that Lockhart won't hold games back significantly.

Every single post is either about Microsoft or Xbox. He is senior editor at The Verge. Is he part of Xbox team at that website or something ?? Or is he meant to be reporting on other consoles too?
He will gladly report on the PS5 to say it's shit and why nobody should buy it. What else would you expect from the average Microsoft symcophant press?
 
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SlimySnake

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THAT WOULD BE A PRETTY GREAT LOSS TO SELL THE SERIES X FOR THE PRICE THEY WILL SELL LOCKHART AT, THIS IS WHY THEY HAVE BOTH. ONE FOR ENTHUSIASTS AND ONE FOR NOOBS. HELLO I HOPE YOU'RE GOOD
back in the day, console makers used to take the loss instead of trying to shove a shitty machine down their consumers throat. Sony took a $100 loss for both the PS1 and PS2 and a $250 for the PS3. MS did the same for the first two xbox.

Back then they both had some pride over the piece of hardware they put out. Now it's a race to the bottom. no shame. imagine if sony had put out of a 400 gflops gpu with jaguar cores and a bluray drive. call it a 480p machine for CRT users. thats what a lockhart is. an excuse to sell more at the expense of the consumers. both the sorry folks that buy it and the ones who shell extra for a better machine.
 
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But I have been told that these average gamers/parents won't be gimped because they already buy the best and latest iPhone every year. There will be no confusion.

Honestly, I'm more worried about devs having to optimize for multiple systems.
If you buy the best and latest, you wont buy the lockheart. Which brings us back to square one. Why?

If its capable of all the same assets just at lower resolution I'm fine with that. I wont want it but I'm fine theoretically. If asset creation is hindered then no. Vehemently against.
 

Dolomite

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My comment isn't about comparing Lockheart to the 360.

I'm just pointing out that you can't make ANY game run on ANY hardware. There comes a point where that no longer becomes possible.

Xbox1X is a current gen console and Lockheart will be weaker. Imagine if all PS4 games were forced to also be on the PS3 all gen long. You think that might have a negative imact on what developers could do with games for PS4? Ofcourse it would.
The Rumored specs for Lockhart already Lap the X1X. 4 gigs of RDNA2(still unconfirmed) offers more processing power than 6 Flops of GCN. The GPU is stronger, the CPU is faster than the PS5, NVME vs HDD? Are you joking? Hardware accelerated Ray tracing, XVA, Machine learning. You're smarter than that comparison man
 
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Nikana

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back in the day, console makers used to take the loss instead of trying to shove a shitty machine down their consumers throat. Sony took a $100 loss for both the PS1 and PS2 and a $250 for the PS3. MS did the same for the first two xbox.

Back then they both had some pride over the piece of hardware they put out. Now it's a race to the bottom. no shame. imagine if sony had put out of a 400 gflops gpu with jaguar cores and a bluray drive. call it a 480p machine for CRT users. thats what a lockhart is. an excuse to sell more at the expense of the consumers. both the sorry folks that buy it and the ones who shell extra for a better machine.
Your mistake is thinking Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft care about you and not their wallets.
 
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The Unforeseen

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Why not release Cyberpunk on Xbox 360? Developers have been building PC titles on multiple GPUs for decades.... right?

Oh that's right, because it would never run on the 360 and before long a game will come along that will never run on Lockheart and if a ton of Lockhearts are sold then that new game will get neutered fundamentally.
Well two things. One, as has been stated the CPU and other aspects are far beyond the 360 and even current gen which will have a big influence on how games will run, this is a huge point and is overlooked often. And two, developers don't look to scale games down to run on GPUs from 2005 in regards to the 360 example. There is a limit to how low you'd go, and if the target res for the Series X is 4k you could look to be around a quarter of that and meet 1080p. In actuality the Series S if it is indeed called that is actually around a third of the Series X, allowing for a bit of wiggle room there id wager.

Now I would argue it could be an issue if the Series X isnt pumping out 4k which will likely be the case further down the line, and I'd personally have liked to have seen more like 6tflops from the S but i think 900p would fly on the S in some games given what the thing is supposed to be an affordable option. It isn't for people with 4k tvs who are dedicated to gaming. If it was 2tflops i'd argue it might start holding things back, due to it getting nowhere near 1080p if the X is at 4k, but it isn't this and there's most likely a reason why the power level was chosen so it could meet the ideal price and performance level.
 

longdi

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Just like people buy 2080ti, there are also 2060 users. Look at steam chart, midrange range specs rule.

The quality of next gen games wouldn't be affected by loss of pixels quality.

We should drop the old single specs mindset where development are more fluid now.
 

SlimySnake

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Your mistake is thinking Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft care about you and not their wallets.
nah, my mistake is assuming fans of microsoft will call out their brand for shitty practices. two gens in a row with a weak underpowered console? fans come out of the woodwork to defend it.
 

jakinov

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Is still serves as an anchor.

Why not release Cyberpunk on Xbox 360? Developers have been building PC titles on multiple GPUs for decades.... right?

Oh that's right, because it would never run on the 360 and before long a game will come along that will never run on Lockheart and if a ton of Lockhearts are sold then that new game will get neutered fundamentally.
Because there’s a point where optimizing for the weaker console isn’t worth the extra dev time and it affects the final product quality significantly. Developers now probably don’t make sure their games run well on PCs with cards from 10 years ago but they probably provide options for cards from a couple of years ago. Targeting something super old might require that you make significant changes to your game. Whereas supporting Lockhart would probably just be a bit of extra work of adjusting some preset options that you are going to probably have tweakable for the likely millions of people who don't have cutting-edge GPUs on PC.

Downgrading the game to run on Lockhart probbaly won’t be a big issue as it is likely powerful enough to run the same games at lower resolutions, frame rates or settings. Developers are already able to shove PS4 games on a switch and 360 games on an iPhone.

People are more concerned that Lockhart will prevent Anaconda (or the PS5) from being fully taking advantage of. But that’s just up to the devs. With the whole mid-generation upgrade, it shows major developers are completely fine with having one version performing/looking significantly better than the other. Developers are arguably probably going to likely want to focus on anaconda so that they can say that the graphics are running on an Xbox or in-engine but wont actually look that way on the Lockhart that most people could hypothetically have. Considering that a lot of games nowadays are allegedly demoed on an Xbox One X or PS4 pro. I also think that devs are probably going to pick the PS5 as their lead platform as it will likely sell significantly more and be easier to work with; and then worry about Xbox and PC after. If a developer decides, hey lets just make sure everything works on the weakest console, that's their decision. If you gave them a bunch of power they could also just as easily decide that they don't want to take advantage of it because they don't want the extra work.

In the past developers didn't do go above and beyond for one platform when doing multi-platform development but I don't think there's strong evidence that they design games around the weakest console. There's evidence of companies saying they want parity between similarly powered consoles. But again, the mid-gen upgrades, and PS4 fan backlash has shifted developers mindset in making sure there's parity to not caring.

Also, I don't know a whole about GPUs but other people on this board, digital foundry and other forums on the Internet seems to be in agreement that the newer GPU architectures from AMD provide considerably better real-world performance despite not sporting close or higher theoretical high performance measurements. So 4TF is a lot lower than the Xbox Series X but it's likely at least as powerful as an Xbox One X.
 

Larvana

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Because there’s a point where optimizing for the weaker console isn’t worth the extra dev time and it affects the final product quality significantly. Developers now probably don’t make sure their games run well on PCs with cards from 10 years ago but they probably provide options for cards from a couple of years ago. Targeting something super old might require that you make significant changes to your game. Whereas supporting Lockhart would probably just be a bit of extra work of adjusting some preset options that you are going to probably have tweakable for the likely millions of people who don't have cutting-edge GPUs on PC.

Downgrading the game to run on Lockhart probbaly won’t be a big issue as it is likely powerful enough to run the same games at lower resolutions, frame rates or settings. Developers are already able to shove PS4 games on a switch and 360 games on an iPhone.

People are more concerned that Lockhart will prevent Anaconda (or the PS5) from being fully taking advantage of. But that’s just up to the devs. With the whole mid-generation upgrade, it shows major developers are completely fine with having one version performing/looking significantly better than the other. Developers are arguably probably going to likely want to focus on anaconda so that they can say that the graphics are running on an Xbox or in-engine but wont actually look that way on the Lockhart that most people could hypothetically have. Considering that a lot of games nowadays are allegedly demoed on an Xbox One X or PS4 pro. I also think that devs are probably going to pick the PS5 as their lead platform as it will likely sell significantly more and be easier to work with; and then worry about Xbox and PC after. If a developer decides, hey lets just make sure everything works on the weakest console, that's their decision. If you gave them a bunch of power they could also just as easily decide that they don't want to take advantage of it because they don't want the extra work.

In the past developers didn't do go above and beyond for one platform when doing multi-platform development but I don't think there's strong evidence that they design games around the weakest console. There's evidence of companies saying they want parity between similarly powered consoles. But again, the mid-gen upgrades, and PS4 fan backlash has shifted developers mindset in making sure there's parity to not caring.

Also, I don't know a whole about GPUs but other people on this board, digital foundry and other forums on the Internet seems to be in agreement that the newer GPU architectures from AMD provide considerably better real-world performance despite not sporting close or higher theoretical high performance measurements. So 4TF is a lot lower than the Xbox Series X but it's likely at least as powerful as an Xbox One X.
Just going to correct you on something it doesn't matter which console dominates the other anymore, nowadays it's who can pay more between Sony or Microsoft from their own pockets. Sony wants more timed exclusives which lasts 1 year which is stupid business.
 
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-Arcadia-

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Series S continues to break Gaf out into bar fights.

All I can say is that I'm really happy and interested to see something different. As we enter a world where 4K is a luxury resolution (I adore 4K, but 1080p isn't exactly ugly, you know?), and games are more modular than ever, there's a genuine, real opportunity to do something akin to the 'mid-range phone' where not-strictly-necessary, top-of-the-line features are stripped, but the experience remains largely the same, and great.

I will never buy this. But in some ways, Lockhart might be the most fascinating hardware of next-gen. I look forward to seeing if they can avoid some of the suggested pitfalls, and really nail the concept.
 

tryDEATH

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The sensitivity is turned up to 11, when anyone dares speak positive about XSX these last few days. The other day everyone lost their mind at the system designer over his take on variable clocks, now at Tom and his take on the XSS CPU.
 

longdi

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The way MS is approaching next gen feels ground shaking imo. As history shows, if you can break new grounds, you can lead the gaming industry into new heights.

The BC, the X/S choices, the xCloud, the most powerful compact design. All these felt like a mix of Xbox Live OG from the phatbox + the move to large but cheaper optical manufacturing+distribution.
 

Kumomeme

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so he saying lockhart is just another gaming pc? eitherway its not about how many decade devs been doing this...i worry about devs effort and work..optimization is not easy as 'turn magic slider up or down'..if it that simple we wont have game like AC Unity where the sliders wont do jackshit despite it being made by well known devs with hundreds of manpower around the globe

for smaller devs optimization is not easy especially indie..more work to them and remember even this gen lot of devs still dont bother to release upgrade patch for stronger verrsion ps4 pro/x1x..even recent Resident Evil 4 miss proper patch for x1x..i wonder what happened later to 'weaker' lockhart...and later at mid generation when both sony and ms release stronger midgen refresh of ps5 and xsx, thats make 3 sku for xbox consoles devs need to optimize....for big company they might have resource for the task..but i wonder about the rest....i wont suprise among lockhart and stronger iteration of xsx, one of it might get neglected by devs..and i wonder how this lockhart would perform at further phase of generation where games getting demanding than ever.

but if they still want to release it, better they do it later 1-2 years after next gen start, where there better hardware for it that could give more juice for developers

personally i think this is bussiness decision, not come from their technical team.
 
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