• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Tomb Raider Reboot 3 - What do you want?

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
I don't think they should do anything of what you said they should do OP(except maybe dual pistols as an optional weapon type).

I think TR2013 trilogy's identity is fine as it is, its not the old games. Get over it.

If you want to play an 'old' tomb raider game, play the previous reboot trilogy that was more closely aligned with that type of system. Or just play Anniversary on repeat.



As for what i think they should do,

1.Lara X Jonah

2.back to an emphasis on upgradable weapons instead of just a bazillion different weapons that do different things like in Rise

3.More platforming segments

4.BETTER WRITING, but with Pratchett gone, that is likely.

5.A way to play stealthly around your enemies and covertly take out people without having to fully engage enemies to clear an area
 
If anything, it would be cool if they remastered the PS1 Tomb Raider games like what has been done with the Crash Bandicoot games.

They sort of already did it with Tomb Raider Anniversary.

Yeah, but with Anniversary they still updated the mechanics and platforming in the vein of Legend (and the later Underworld). Crash seems to be a mostly visual update with the same core platform design principles, at least in the videos we've seen...

Yeah, some previous posts in the thread have discussed this:

...Legend, Anniversary and Underworld were far too different in terms of controls and level design, especially regarding the platforming. They replaced three-dimensional, challenging platform-to-platform traversal with (mostly) two-dimensional, over-automated ledge-hopping. That's like telling Soulsborne fans that those game's combat is very similar to Assassin's Creed's combat :p. However, there is a modern game that has succeeded in modernising classic Tomb Raider's platforming: Mirror's Edge. Mechanically speaking, that game feels more like Tomb Raider than any of Crystal Dynamic's Tomb Raider games have so far...

...How is a frantic, super twitchy game like Mirror's Edge in any way comparative to the slow, deliberate tank controls of classic Tomb Raider? In TR the timing was usually pretty generous, you just had to take your time, figure out what to do and then commit to it a bit in advance. ME is a non-stop barrage of tight jumps needing split-second reactions, turning TR into that sounds worse than the current incarnation...

...you need to aim your jumps properly (and if you don't, the game is not going to help you out by having ledges pull you towards them), you need to make sure you have enough momentum to reach certain spots, you need to understand and master the controls to succeed and the level design features a lot of platform-to-platform traversal as opposed to the LAU games [Legend/Anniversary/Underworld] and at least the first Mirror's Edge really had this sense of having to figure out where to go and how to use the environment to your advantage, finding a path. That's something I haven't felt in a Tomb Raider entry for a long time. So yeah, like I said, I do think that Mirror's Edge has far more similarities with the classic TR games than any of Crystal's Tomb Raider games so far...

Mark Brown of Game Maker's Toolkit said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQRr3pXxsGo&t=105s
”[1:45] ...I think we also lost something in the transition to the ultra simple traversal controls we see in games like Rise of the Tomb Raider and Uncharted. The old system [in the classic Tomb Raider games] demanded expertise. You became a master of the controls, like how you learn to subconsciously flick trick in and out of every grind and manual in Tony Hawk's, and you had to act deliberately, and with intention, like – dare I say it – Dark Souls. And in Tomb Raider [1996], a leap across a giant chasm is almost as terrifying and rewarding as it would be in real life. Whereas that exact same jump in the decade-later remake, Tomb Raider Anniversary, is so bereft of challenge that you barely even register that it happened... [3:28]... Thankfully, we can, and a number of smaller games show us that movement can still be as deep and involving as, like, murdering a dude. Perhaps the most obvious example is first-person parkour game, Mirror's Edge. This game is all about movement, and you have so much control over the way protagonist Faith moves through the world. She has acceleration on her run so she can jump farther after she has built up speed. She can tuck mid-jump to clear high fences, and roll when she hits the ground to avoid fall damage. Her large repertoire of moves give you more options when moving through a space. In this early section, you can... and..."
 

Nimby

Banned
2013 and Rise are very fun romps, but I definitely miss the way old Tomb Raider was structured. It was cartoony and stylized with vast temples/caves and the occasional urban area to explore with the only objective being "complete the level" or "find the artifact." Levels were always interwoven with shortcuts and it was so awesome to see how the level was almost essentially a mini-Souls zone. The feeling you get when ride the elevator down from the Undead Parish back to Firelink is what many of locations did to you in the classic Tomb Raider games.

Ammo, health-kits and weapon upgrades/weapons themselves were rewarded through exploration instead of being placed along the path to the main objective. Secrets were often very hard to find, with the method to find them being convoluted but in a good way, considering they are not necessary to progress. Enemies would jump around corners and surprise you and were mostly animals or mythical creatures like mummies or statues that resurrect. Once you progressed through the area multiple times, you'd figure out what spawns them, and their patterns, much like ya-know Dark Souls.

The platforming in the modern games I feel is mostly fine, as is the TPS style combat. But I really want to experience something like those games again. There's so much to expand upon too, the classic games often lacked a decently told story, urban areas were unpopulated, friendly NPC's were lite, most were made in a short period of time with I'm assuming a fairly low budget for the sequels.
 
Yeah, TR has sandbox maps with lots of meanigless icons and messy and chaotically placed plataforming, very much following Ubisoft school of design. But that dosn't mean that Rise of the Tomb Raider dosn't play very similarly to U4. This is why people compare both games.

I get that. I just believe there's a lot more to game design than how something plays. Structure is a pretty big deal and there's more to Tomb Raider's general gameplay-- I'm not saying it's ridiculous to compare them in certain ways, but they have generally different design philosophies.

As far as meaningless map content, I disagree. The challenges are about the only things I find superfluous but I think everything else is there to seek out and grow your skills and whatnot. Also tons of weapon upgrades.
 

molnizzle

Member
I really loved the both 2013 and Rise, so they can go ahead and keep making those please. Better Uncharted than Uncharted.
 
I get that. I just believe there's a lot more to game design than how something plays. Structure is a pretty big deal and there's more to Tomb Raider's general gameplay-- I'm not saying it's ridiculous to compare them in certain ways, but they have generally different design philosophies...

Curious if you would agree with matrix-cat's suggestion below (also discussed in Mark Brown's video, in particular from 2:05 to 3:30):
I'd really like to see platforming given at least equal attention to combat. I'm not really coming to these games to stealth/murder five hundred guys, I want to do the thing that it says on the front of the box. In Nu Tomb Raider and Uncharted the platforming is never anything more than downtime between the actual challenging gameplay. Give me a grip button, jumps that need a run-up, the rhythm elements and gymnastic routines from the Legend trilogy; all that good stuff...
 

Grisby

Member
Lara on her own this time. Maybe being hunted. Lots of puzzles to solve with some action and survival combat. Maybe only give me three bullets or something for a combat encounter.

Make it harder.
 

Ganrob

Neo Member
I'm a fan of the reboot.

Want:
- More engaging way of fleshing out backstory (don't have patience to listen to document collectible voiceover)
- Expand on and add to abilities+weapons from last game instead of losing everything at the start
- Optional Tombs should take longer to clear (but they do look really beautiful)
 
The story's MUCH worse, though.

Rise's story is so insufferably boring and forgettable. The only reason I'm playing the game right now is because gaf said it's one of the best graphics for 2016 on PC and I want to see what my 980Ti can do at 1080p with it. Animations/Graphics and so on are good. Gameplay is hardly taxing and it's linear as a racehorse plus a collectathon.

For me all that beauty and artwork talent seems wasted, I don't have the answers apart from hurr durr go back to rootz roff.
 

Bioshocker

Member
Nice to see more people enjoying ROTTR. Rise is one of my favourite games of this gen so I just want a sequel. On my wishlist is even better tombs, cooler enemy characters and maybe more history behind the missions. I could go for even more majestic environments too (the Soviet installation never felt like a Tomb Raider location). Just keep most of the gameplay like it is.
 
Top Bottom