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Tomorrow it is 26 years ago since MS Estonia sank

SantaC

Member
Many americans dont know about this one, but MS Estonia sinking is one of the worst ferry catastrophies in modern times.

In 1994, Estonia sank in the baltic sea killing 852 people. Only about 100 survived.

Estonia sank very quickly, because the bow visor broke down due to heavy storm.

Here are some gruesome videos of the incident.





This is the actual mayday call. Chilling.

 
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SantaC

Member
estonia-1.jpg


 
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Blade2.0

Member
Is this the one where the supervisor didn't check to see if the hangar door was shut correctly or was that another sinking I'm thinking of?
 

SantaC

Member
Is this the one where the supervisor didn't check to see if the hangar door was shut correctly or was that another sinking I'm thinking of?
Bow visor was shut. But the heavy waves broke it. It sank the ship in less than 30 minutes.
 

Sybb

Banned
Well, I mean, if it's true, it's true. 🌎🇺🇸
Remember that your whole country origins from the British, who sailed across from the UK, funded by the UK. Then they took the land for themselves, without paying back all the money to the British crown. After that, the infamous tax war began, and shortly after that the real war began.

Pretty much everyone in the US, except the indians, have European origins.

So don't get too cocky because you won WWII, which was mainly due to the allies being able to decrypt the German code system.
 

eot

Banned


852 people? Jesus.
It was also a shockingly high proportion who died

Of the 989 on board, 138 were rescued alive, one of whom died later in hospital.[2] Ships rescued 34 and helicopters 104; the ferries played a much smaller part than the planners had intended because it was too dangerous to launch their man-overboard (MOB) boats or lifeboats. The accident claimed 852 lives. Most died by drowning and hypothermia, as the water temperature was 10–11 °C/50–52 °F. One of the victims of the sinking was the Estonian singer Urmas Alender. In total, 94 bodies were recovered: 93 within 33 days of the accident, the last victim was found 18 months later.[2] By the time the rescue helicopters arrived, around a third of those who escaped from the Estonia had died of hypothermia, while fewer than half of those who had managed to leave the ship were eventually rescued.[2] The survivors of the shipwreck were mostly young males generally of strong constitution. Seven over 55 years of age survived and there were no survivors under age 12. About 650 people were still inside the ship when it sank. [JAIC 2] The commission estimated that up to 310 passengers reached the outer decks, 160 of whom boarded the life-rafts or lifeboats.

The ship began listing a lot, very quickly, so there were people inside who couldn't get out because the stairwells were located in the center of the ship, and it was impossible to climb the corridors when the ship was listing that much. Most of the people who made it reacted very quickly, or were physically strong, and there were lots of horror stories like people having to leave their less fit family members behind, people who got crushed by vending machines falling down the corridors etc.
 

eot

Banned

The singing stopped.
Thiger felt butterflies in his stomach. To his acquaintance he said, "Now there is something completely wrong. Now let's get out of here."
"Yes, as you say," his acquaintance said.
The two men jumped up, and had taken only a few steps toward the exit when the heel increased to an angle that Thiger estimated to be about 30 degrees. There was immediate panic in the pub, with much shouting. The bar counter stood along a wall on the pub's port side. The bartender had braced herself behind it, but she collapsed screaming under a deluge of bottles and glasses. Refrigerators came loose, and stools slipped out from under the patrons who clung to the countertop to keep from falling. Others slid across the floor in a confusion of tumbling tables, chairs, and sound equipment, and they piled up in tangles along the ship's starboard side, across and downslope from the exit. The bar counter itself broke loose. Many people were injured and subsequently died. Pierre Thiger and his acquaintance managed somehow not to fall. But movement across the pub's open spaces toward the exit was now extremely difficult, even for men who were both agile and sober.

[...]

Pierre Thiger and his acquaintance were slower to escape from the Pub Admiral, though not for want of trying. The brief opportunities provided by the rolling motion—the cyclical moderations of the starboard heel that Rolf Sörman had exploited—were spoiled for them by the distance to the exit and the presence of other passengers ahead who were either too shocked or too drunk to move quickly or get out of the way. Afterward the floor angles grew so steep that even crawling was ineffective. Here again, though, people formed human chains. Thiger and his acquaintance were able to reach the hallway outside. With the further use of human chains they struggled across the ship amid scenes of bedlam and fear, and they arrived at the aft stairway. By then the stairway was crowded with fleeing passengers, many of whom were hanging on to the railings as if paralyzed. Thiger and his acquaintance tore loose their hands and shouted in their ears to get them moving, and after an agonizingly slow climb they finally arrived on Deck 7, somehow negotiated the steepening floor, and moved through the double doors to temporary safety outside. They were among the last to make it there. Since the first catastrophic heel maybe eight minutes had gone by. The list had increased by now to 40 degrees. When it got to 45 degrees, two or three minutes later, escape from the ship's interior became all but impossible.

Survival that night was a very tight race, and savagely simple. People who started early and moved fast had some chance of winning. People who started late or hesitated for any reason had no chance at all. Action paid. Contemplation did not. The mere act of getting dressed was enough to condemn people to death, and although many of those who escaped to the water succumbed to the cold, most of the ultimate winners endured the ordeal completely naked or in their underwear. The survivors all seem to have grasped the nature of this race, the first stage of which involved getting outside to the Deck 7 promenade without delay. There was no God to turn to for mercy. There was no government to provide order. Civilization was ancient history, Europe a faint and faraway place. Inside the ship, as the heel increased, even the most primitive social organization, the human chain, crumbled apart. Love only slowed people down. A pitiless clock was running. The ocean was completely in control.

[...]

Most of the passengers fled toward the main staircase at the center of the ship, emerging into the large open spaces that surrounded it on every deck, and then crawling or lunging as best they could to gain the banisters and railings. Handrails gave way from the start. As more people arrived, and the list increased, passengers began to slide and fall, and some were crushed by toppling equipment. The scenes of loss and bedlam defied coherent description by the survivors who witnessed them. On Deck 4 two women who had reached the staircase lost their grip and fell fatally against a wall. Others had already been badly injured, and some were lying apparently dead. Emotions among those unable to climb varied widely, with some people screaming incoherently, others seemingly listless and confused, and still others rational, self-contained, and brave. One of the survivors, a young man who had been trying to guide his parents and his girlfriend to safety, got separated from them in the chaos while gaining the stairs. When he looked back to find them, it was obvious that they would be incapable of negotiating the open space, across which increasing numbers of people were fatally sliding. His parents shouted at him to save himself, as did his girlfriend. It was practical advice. There was no time to linger over the decision. He turned and continued on alone.

On higher decks hundreds of similar tragedies unfolded, as the gathering crowds struggled up the main stairways and people exhausted their strength against the ever more difficult heel. Those no longer capable of movement clung to the railings or sat on the landings, just waiting for the end. People fell onto one another. One woman lost her husband to another woman that way. Among married couples the strong were delayed by the weak. It is evident from the rarity of single spouses among the survivors that many couples decided consciously to die together. These were not the sad, sweet moments one sees in the movies. There was no music playing. There was a strange, coded alarm announcement, "Mr. Skylight, to number one and number two," which was difficult to hear over the screaming. On every level the view from the main stairways was of carnage and confusion. People lay in the mouths of the hallways, unable to figure a way across the open spaces.
 
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Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Remember that your whole country origins from the British, who sailed across from the UK, funded by the UK. Then they took the land for themselves, without paying back all the money to the British crown. After that, the infamous tax war began, and shortly after that the real war began.

Pretty much everyone in the US, except the indians, have European origins.

So don't get too cocky because you won WWII, which was mainly due to the allies being able to decrypt the German code system.
After reading this response, I'm not sure if we won our sarcasm in the war or left it behind.
 
Remember that your whole country origins from the British, who sailed across from the UK, funded by the UK. Then they took the land for themselves, without paying back all the money to the British crown. After that, the infamous tax war began, and shortly after that the real war began.

Pretty much everyone in the US, except the indians, have European origins.

So don't get too cocky because you won WWII, which was mainly due to the allies being able to decrypt the German code system.

Eh, the Battle of Britain was really where the western theater was finished. The Luftwaffe was almost completely decimated and Germany never regained air superiority which allowed Britain to bomb critical German infrastructure with impunity.

The coding system is arguable because it's never been thoroughly explained on what actually happened to the Kriegsmarine's u-boat fleets during WW2.

I don't think the U.S or British navy has ever given exact numbers on actions taken against presumed u-boat activity. It's as if hundreds of u-boats just suddenly disappeared in the 40's when they were wreaking havoc in the Atlantic during the late 30's and we're given "but muh convoys" as an excuse and it doesn't explain where they went.

The U.S inclusion into the war doesn't make sense either because the British Royal Navy did most of the heavy lifting during the Euro sea campaign in WW2. Most U.S naval assets were shifted to the pacific campaign.
 

DogofWar

Member
Surprise motherfuckers, a previously unreported 4m hole just found in the hull, requires 500-600 tonnes of force to happen


8b613f10598c4d69bfafca3571991e4a.jpg.webp


f3b18dbadf574c9fbd87e711272ac91e.jpg.webp

This is actually a lot bigger than non-Swedes/Finns/Estonians might think at first glance.
There have been a lot of conspiracies and accusations of governments actively hiding information about this but never confirmed whatsoever. Such a big ship sinking in 30~ minutes is very noteworthy after all. Due to "respect for the dead" they forbad people to examine the wreck.

None of the politicians active at the time have uttered a word about this hole yet but even mainstream media writes about it now. Very interesting development. Hopefully the relatives of the people who died will soon have some sort of closure as to what actually caused this tragedy.
 

eot

Banned
That's an interesting new update

Just quoting myself to point out that this piece is well worth a read
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
This is actually a lot bigger than non-Swedes/Finns/Estonians might think at first glance.
There have been a lot of conspiracies and accusations of governments actively hiding information about this but never confirmed whatsoever. Such a big ship sinking in 30~ minutes is very noteworthy after all. Due to "respect for the dead" they forbad people to examine the wreck.

None of the politicians active at the time have uttered a word about this hole yet but even mainstream media writes about it now. Very interesting development. Hopefully the relatives of the people who died will soon have some sort of closure as to what actually caused this tragedy.

Combine this with the fact that Sweden was very quick to declare Estonia a grave site just a year later in 1995, banning people from going for a look.

The Estonia Agreement 1995, a treaty among Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Denmark, Russia and the United Kingdom, declared sanctity over the site, prohibiting their citizens from even approaching the wreck

 

Redlancet

Banned
this give me the chills,i was on a stanavforlant and was stationed for two days near that ship,chatted with some crew members
 

notseqi

Member
Combine this with the fact that Sweden was very quick to declare Estonia a grave site just a year later in 1995, banning people from going for a look.
Aren't graves just for that, 'having a look'?
Otherwise they could throw the dead over the city walls, with a stick.
 

eot

Banned
Aren't graves just for that, 'having a look'?
Otherwise they could throw the dead over the city walls, with a stick.
They declared sanctity over the wreckage site, however it sank in international waters so it only applies to citizens of countries who signed that agreement.
 
That's an interesting new update


Just quoting myself to point out that this piece is well worth a read
I just finished reading the entire article. I was hooked from start to finish. It's crazy that I've never heard of the MS Estonia before. The human survival instinct is something else and there is always a small percentage of people that do not break under any circumstances and manage to stay calm like Thiger did. Incredible.
 

nbcjr

Member
That is exceptionally well written, could be a book. However, I don't understand this part, could anyone please explain?


"
The principal stairways on the ship were built in a fore-aft direction—an orientation that allowed them to be scaled (by strong people, using the railings) at relatively steep angles of heel. This little stairway, in contrast, was built in a transverse direction—side-to-side—a detail which meant that as the list increased, the stairs went vertical and then inverted, cutting off the possibility even of retreat"
 
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eot

Banned
That is exceptionally well written, could be a book. However, I don't understand this part, could anyone please explain?


"
The principal stairways on the ship were built in a fore-aft direction—an orientation that allowed them to be scaled (by strong people, using the railings) at relatively steep angles of heel. This little stairway, in contrast, was built in a transverse direction—side-to-side—a detail which meant that as the list increased, the stairs went vertical and then inverted, cutting off the possibility even of retreat"
The ship was tilting sideways, and the main stairways of the ship ran front-to-back, meaning that scaling those stairs was like scaling stairs tilting heavily to the left/right. However, this particular set of stairs ran sideways along the ship (left-to-right and so on), which means that tilt of the ship was causing those stairs to become nearly vertical, and eventually inverted, as written there. Scaling that is like climbing a bouldering wall.
 

nbcjr

Member
The ship was tilting sideways, and the main stairways of the ship ran front-to-back, meaning that scaling those stairs was like scaling stairs tilting heavily to the left/right. However, this particular set of stairs ran sideways along the ship (left-to-right and so on), which means that tilt of the ship was causing those stairs to become nearly vertical, and eventually inverted, as written there. Scaling that is like climbing a bouldering wall.
Thanks. This is fascinating. Interesting facts from a youtube comment

There were many factors that contributed to the sinking (and most of have only been documented in Swedish, Finnish and Estonian). 1. The design of the visor was flawed. When the ship was built in 1980 for SF Line (Viking Line), they initially wanted to make a direct sister ship the Slite Line's (Also a part of Viking Line) ship m/s Diana II. They later changed their minds and m/s Viking Sally was lengthened, had no view of the bow and worst of all had a lengthened visor. This caused a problem as the loading ramp had to be lenghend aswell, but doing this would cause it to not fit in the opening of the car deck. Therefore part of the ramp was hinged, but only the very top. The Meyer Werft that built the ship made the main part of the ramp extend into a compartment in the visor. This meant that when the visor fell of the ramp would not stay closed. (Source: A Swedish documentary from the early 2000s called "Livlinan som brast" (The Lifeline that broke)). 2. The ship was also designed without waterthight doors behind the ramp. Apparently SF Line made a deal with the Swedish Government to certify the ship to sail without this crucial safety feature because it was only designed to operate on the Stockholm-Mariehamn-Turku route where the ship is close to land during most of the voyage. Furthermore the written certificate was never issued and remained a verbal agreement between SF Line and the Swedish Maritime Department. After 10 years this had been forgotten so the vessel was sold as any other. (Source: Same as above) 3. Allegedly the Estline corporation had been running the ship outside her operating conditions during the winter of 1993/1994. Many accounts from the time claim that Estline frequently ran the ship at full speed no matter what and even used it as an icebreaker at occations. This reached a point where witnesses claim that the visor's locking system was highly malfunctional during the summer of 1994 and that crew members on multiple occations had to force the visor locks open with sledgehammers before unloading. (Source: http://www.estoniaferrydisaster.net/estonia%20final%20report/Contents.htm The most comprehensive english collection of facts I've seen about the disaster, made by an independant German group.) Here is the official report in Swedish aswell: https://www.havkom.se/assets/default/Estonia_JAICrapport_Sv.pdf I suggest looking up things on your own, as this is all from my memory and might not be fully accurate.
 

MadAnon

Member
Looks like a submarine collided with it? Or simply the hole was created when the ship hit the bottom of the sea?

Although there was a huge resistence from swedish authorities to properly investigate this and outright discourage investigation. Makes you wonder.
 
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S

SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
Remember that your whole country origins from the British, who sailed across from the UK, funded by the UK. Then they took the land for themselves, without paying back all the money to the British crown.
Cope.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
Looks like a submarine collided with it? Or simply the hole was created when the ship hit the bottom of the sea?

Although there was a huge resistence from swedish authorities to properly investigate this and outright discourage investigation. Makes you wonder.

Oh god, I had never heard of this tragedy either (thanks OP for making me aware of it) and already there are truthers?
 

MadAnon

Member
Oh god, I had never heard of this tragedy either (thanks OP for making me aware of it) and already there are truthers?
Seriously? I just speculate based on newfound evidence of an inwards hull breach on the side of the ferry. As I said, maybe that hole was created when the ship hit the bottom of the sea.
 
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SatansReverence

Hipster Princess
I hadn't heard of this one either.

While the circumstances of the investigation are strange I'm not one to jump on the conspiracy theory bandwagon.
 

notseqi

Member
Oh god, I had never heard of this tragedy either (thanks OP for making me aware of it) and already there are truthers?
There is differing accounts as to unsanctioned/illegal weapon transports and the like but I don't have time right now to read more reports and the Meyer Werft/Shipyards findings in the case. Feels political but who knows.

If you haven't, give eot's article from The Atlantic a read, no technical stuff but accounts from survivors written into a great story on the events.
 

Forsete

Member
I just watched the documentary on Dplay. This is so depressing. Always when the time to rise up to the occation our worhtless politicians fail us, take the cheap way out, cover up to save their own asses.

I remember the day very well.

A colleague of mine has a friend who survived the disaster. He had said that some people more or less were trying to kill each other when fighting over life vests.

There is differing accounts as to unsanctioned/illegal weapon transports and the like but I don't have time right now to read more reports and the Meyer Werft/Shipyards findings in the case. Feels political but who knows.

If you haven't, give eot's article from The Atlantic a read, no technical stuff but accounts from survivors written into a great story on the events.

The military admitted to have smuggled electronic equipment (stolen Russian equipment) from Estonia via the ship Estonia on two occasions, the last time the week before the sinking.

Of course only after a customs official had spilled the beans. It has connections to KSI which is the most secret branch of the military. There were probably more smuggling operations, maybe even on the night itself but they never admitted to that.
 
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notseqi

Member
There were probably more smuggling operations, maybe even on the night itself but they never admitted to that.
Yeah, that half admittance, though used often, doesn't say much and rather swings it in the negative. Military equipment was transported, probably illegaly at the time.
 
Shhh, they still out there...

Oh come oh that's fairy tale...

Surprise motherfuckers, a previously unreported 4m hole just found in the hull, requires 500-600 tonnes of force to happen


8b613f10598c4d69bfafca3571991e4a.jpg.webp


f3b18dbadf574c9fbd87e711272ac91e.jpg.webp

Well shit. Fucking Germans!
 
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