• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Tom's Hardware: Far Cry 6 Proves Consoles Aren't Powerful Enough for Ray Tracing

b0uncyfr0

Member
Dec 1, 2012
839
308
755
BS excuses, they just dont wanna do it. Its a cross gen game, meaning another set of resources for development on Series x and PS5.
 
Jun 2, 2017
1,620
1,814
505
When I saw how Watch Dogs Legion performed at 30fps with ray tracing on, and then how ubisoft got it to run when taking it out and pushing it to 60fps...I personally felt like ubisoft just needs to get it together to better implement it
 

GHG

Member
Nov 9, 2006
26,895
42,424
1,995
RT on console was DOA. There’s always next gen.

Life comes at you fast:

I think Ray-Tracing is the game changer for next gen. If Series X has a big advantage there, that's far more significant than any of the other spec differences.

Frustrated World Cup GIF
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Mar 31, 2011
6,683
5,111
1,130
Doesn’t it just prove that Ubisoft optimization is bad?

The Farcry team has never been the best at this and/or maybe the engine is just got legaxy stuff that prevents it from really shining.
I remember even Far Cry 5 had some weird performance numbers that didnt really match what other games were doing.

Dunia is probably Ubisofts weakest engine.
Anvil, Snowdrop and Disrupt all do similar things with better visuals while maintaining performance.

The fact they arent even gonna bother using FSR in conjunction with HRT means they either just ran out of time, or just dont want to bother fighting to get the optimal performance.

When that Avatar game running on Snowdrop arrives I think Ubi should seriously think of having more projects use that engine....i know we shit on EA for Frostbite being corporation wide, but Dunia at this point isnt that stunning an engine and doesnt seem to be pulling its weight versus the other engines Ubisoft has.
 

SF Kosmo

...please disperse...
Jul 7, 2020
7,911
9,398
735
Redid to the point of becoming more like current gen level? By the side-by-side video I didn't see big differences...
I don't think the differences are like, texture resolution or geometry, it's more to do with materials and lighting.

It's a pretty big difference it just might not be in the way you mean.

But also I have only messed with the two PC versions. I imagine the maxed out PC version was always higher than the consoles in terms of LOD and texture settings.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: rodrigolfp

Filben

Member
Oct 13, 2014
1,577
214
525
Germany
Far Cry 6 not having RT on consoles is on Ubisoft, though. I mean, they opted for native 4k at 60fps... what's holding them back for something like 1440p or even 1080p with RT at 60fps? Upscaling methods getting better and better and depending on your setup you won't see much of a difference – I sure as hell don't between 1440p and 4k when sitting 2,5m from my 55 inch TV, though sitting close as 1,5m is a different story and I'd probably want those 4k pixels. Hence, give users the options because everyone has a different setup and favours different things.

The only worthwhile RT game on consoles is Metro Exodus. Don't expect to see other games on console doing RT Lighting. Control sure as shit didn't and the "next gen" port or Cyberpunk or the Witcher 3 sure as hell wont. All you're getting is reflections at extremely low resolutions or worthless shit like RT shadows.
Major improvements on those screenshots.
 
Mar 16, 2014
1,409
1,354
780
Far Cry 6 looks like a last gen game and actually even worse than Far Cry 5 in my opinion and it still can't do ray tracing? Really?

Maybe they could make a 30fps mode with ray tracing enabled like Deathloop.
 

vkbest

Member
Jan 23, 2017
1,729
1,687
500
Far Cry 6 not having RT on consoles is on Ubisoft, though. I mean, they opted for native 4k at 60fps... what's holding them back for something like 1440p or even 1080p with RT at 60fps? Upscaling methods getting better and better and depending on your setup you won't see much of a difference – I sure as hell don't between 1440p and 4k when sitting 2,5m from my 55 inch TV, though sitting close as 1,5m is a different story and I'd probably want those 4k pixels. Hence, give users the options because everyone has a different setup and favours different things.


Major improvements on those screenshots.
Ubisoft 4k means 1080p to 2160p dynamic res
 

assurdum

Member
Aug 14, 2020
3,905
6,671
545
That's subjective, but it's still miles ahead of consoles. DLSS really helps, imagine if consoles had it...
Everything on pc it's miles ahead of consoles...use Far Cry 6 as prove raytracing is better on pc it's just hilarious. Even on pc FAR CRY has very limited raytracing, the fuck of argument is that, so let's say also raytracing on pc is waste of power because look how limited is it in this game
 
Last edited:

Ironman_Bad

Neo Member
Jun 17, 2021
38
48
110
Ray Tracing kills resources tremendously and most gamers cant tell a Ray Traced reflection from a SSR one unless DF pauses a video to show them exactly what the difference is lol good riddance....but yeah gotta have that cool next gen tag for a game 🤷🏿‍♂️
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Three Jackdaws

JerryinSoCal

Member
Apr 11, 2020
1,252
2,168
390
Fact check: mostly true. We've seen some decent implementations of raytracing but it's no where close to what's possible on PC. I rate it a gimmick/10 on consoles (Metro might be the only exception, but even there RT is rather limited).
On some PC's, most people don't have gaming PC's strong enough to do any better than the consoles are doing right now anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CamHostage

StateofMajora

Banned
Aug 7, 2020
2,010
2,647
385
Toms hardware has been a shill outlet for a while.

Far cry 6 looks garbo. Looks like a downgrade technically from earlier far cry games even.
 

Derktron

Banned
Dec 27, 2019
2,694
3,364
520
I don't understand this article at all, we haven't even seen what both consoles are capable of running games to their full potential due to the fact that we are still making games for the last generation. You can't base off one game and claim something when we haven't even fully started this generation. For fuck sake, I can understand if we are years in and games can't run at it's potential. Correct me if I'm wrong but if games like Spider-Man and even Watch Dogs themselves can run RT then why can't this game run RT. For me even though RT takes important resources I think it should be an option for some gamers.
 
Last edited:

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Jun 25, 2018
4,077
3,801
725
Stuck in 1Q84.
This is typically an article from a user who has not yet see what RT actually can contribute to a game, let alone a programmer who is essentially saying that the game isn't that visually impressive.

And he isn't wrong. Far Cry 6 looks okay, not next-gen. But the same can be said for Rainbow Six: Extraction. Or XDefiant. And that latter one is on the same engine that will power the new Avatar game (Which, if those were in-game, does look next-gen)

Cue Seinfield notthatthereisanythingwrongwiththat.gif, but the article serves no informational purpose beyond either clickbait or furthering a statement from a programmer who perfectly knows why he is doing it.

And it is so unnecessary. If the game is good, it will sell. And Far Cry 6 still looks alright. Looks aren't everything. Gameplay is.

I feel these statements and articles instead tell me that the gameplay loop won't be good.
 
Sep 22, 2020
691
1,067
385
I mean they can definitely do RT but not amazingly well but neither can most PCs atm. Used sensibly they will still improve graphics I think. I guess the difference is PC won't stand still and GPUs will just get faster and faster throughout this gen to the point they can brute force through all the RT disadvantages.

The RT reflections in SM:MM are way better than the cube maps when you are web slinging around but if you inspect them in any real detail you'll see they can be really terrible quality with very obvious compromises. Turning them on in 60fps mode also causes the framerate to drop enough that you notice the frametime jumping around.





When you can hide how low quality the reflections are as the surface is not mirror like they can hugely improve the look of a scene though.



R&C looks a lot better but still a lot of RT noise and far fewer reflective surfaces. Most of the reflections are on curved or imperfect surfaces so while they are probably not any computationally easier to do (maybe harder even I dunno?) you can hide the shortcomings much more easily. Find a big mirror like object and you'll see how low detail the reflections are. Still better than without I'd say and no impact on framerate only resolution.

 

Md Ray

Member
Nov 12, 2016
4,160
13,383
785
"When you die and your whole life flashes before your eyes, how much of it do you want to NOT have ray tracing?" -Tom's Hardware 2018 (RTX 20 series review)
 
Last edited:

Pedro Motta

Member
May 19, 2020
792
3,105
385
Did you talk about yourself? I have been here since 2004.
Bro if you want to add anything to this discussion, feel free to do so. You have no idea who I am or where I play to assume I only play on consoles. Nothing in my argument is out of place or it is false. So if you wanna measure PC master race cocks, I'm assure mine is waaaay bigger than yours. So, FUCK OFF.
 
  • Empathy
Reactions: DonJuanSchlong

MikeM

Member
May 21, 2021
584
840
295
Lol at triggered console gamers.

He's not wrong tho. Trying to land a rtx 3070 alone is around $1050 CAD + tax. The fact that I get a complete system that does some form of RT for about $600+ tax is pretty good.
 

SenjutsuSage

Member
Jan 23, 2010
12,079
7,781
1,315
What a dumb article. Spider-Man: Miles Morales. Ratchet & Clank, Metro Exodus, Doom Eternal.. so silly.
 

SenjutsuSage

Member
Jan 23, 2010
12,079
7,781
1,315
Last edited:

Reallink

Member
Jan 7, 2008
6,777
1,935
1,365
R&C, Spider-Man Remastered, Miles Morales say "hi".

If I'm not mistaken Insomniac are mostly just doing low resolution ultra low LOD reflections and even then are having to pare back density and render resolution to get it running. That doesn't really say or mean anything for developers wanting to use multiple or more costly effects. Metro is probably the best example of console RT, but it's a last gen port and runs near 1080p most of the time to pull it off. Games targeting any semblance of next-gen asset or density aren't going to have the overhead to use much if any RT without significant sacrifices to resolution and frame rate. Which is a trade off (rightly so) that most developers aren't going to take.
 
Last edited:

junguler

Banned
Sep 1, 2019
961
1,221
460
30
iran
junguler.github.io
there is a big difference between can't and won't, it's retarded to come to a conclusion like this based on one third party game and not even one year into this generation.
 

YeulEmeralda

Member
Aug 8, 2020
1,182
1,073
335
He's not wrong tho. Trying to land a rtx 3070 alone is around $1050 CAD + tax. The fact that I get a complete system that does some form of RT for about $600+ tax is pretty good.
PC gaming is losing the budget gamers. Can't be healthy if only the pc master race crowd is left.


Used to be a time when you COULD build a €1000 gaming PC that shits all over the new consoles.
 

MikeM

Member
May 21, 2021
584
840
295

Not sure what is funny. It came from Microsoft themselves:

For instance, Xbox system architect Andrew Goossen revealed to Eurogamer's Digital Foundry that the regular 12 TFLOPs figure for Xbox Series X effectively bumps to over 25+ TFLOPs when doing raytracing operations.

Without hardware acceleration, this work could have been done in the shaders but would have consumed over 13 TFLOPs alone. For the Xbox Series X, this work is offloaded onto dedicated hardware and the shader can continue to run in parallel with full performance. In other words, Series X can effectively tap the equivalent of well over 25 TFLOPs of performance while ray tracing.
Xbox Series X goes even further than the PC standard in offering more power and flexibility to developers. In grand console tradition, we also support direct to the metal programming including support for offline BVH construction and optimisation. With these building blocks, we expect ray tracing to be an area of incredible visuals and great innovation by developers over the course of the console's lifetime.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: sublimit
Feb 20, 2021
381
358
250
Consoles can do ray tracing. We saw a good example of that with Ratchet (real next gen) and Doom (last gen upgrade). It doesn't look as spectacular as it could (low quality reflections, etc), but it adds something to the equation.

That said, I would rather 60 FPS if it was either or. Ray tracing is very taxing for the systems. We're at a weird place where there's some Ray tracing, some cube maps, some baked lighting, and yet it works. We're a ways away from the full effect that ray tracing can provide.
 

LegendOfKage

Member
Mar 6, 2018
3,842
5,605
765
So then what do all the PS5 and Series X games with ray tracing prove? That's like looking at Watch Dogs 3 and saying "Well, I guess consoles aren't powerful enough for 60 FPS."

What a stupid article.