Toxic Femininity

Aug 22, 2018
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#5
So I watched it and while the person in the video has a bit of a chip on her shoulder she does make some valid points about female bullying at school and in the workplace (which is where the majority of the video focuses). She does seem to dislike feminism, and tbh I don't blame her based on the current state of feminism. I will however say that the best response to the Gillette ad may not be a video highlighting toxic femininity, however satisfying it may be, but instead something akin to the ThisGirlCan ad campaign, for men. ThisGuyCan. Focus on guys who are doing awesome things every day. I'm not saying she's wrong, I just think that when they go low, you should go high.
 
Nov 12, 2009
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#8
I think that anyone can be an asshole: men, women, children, even animals. Regardless of gender.
However, in saying this you are not supporting any type of narrative. Therefore this type of logic and approach could be considered dull by those that have an agenda to drive and may just flat out ignore it as it does not serve them.
 
Nov 14, 2009
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#9
However, in saying this you are not supporting any type of narrative. Therefore this type of logic and approach could be considered dull by those that have an agenda to drive and may just flat out ignore it as it does not serve them.
True.

My agenda to drive is that both men and women (children, animals and other beings included) can be so called toxic. Therefore I'm going to ignore those discussions as they do not support the agenda I'm attempting to push.
 
Feb 2, 2009
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#15
Excellent video, and 100% accurate.

Relational violence is real and its extremely well suited to social media, as it facilitates the effect whilst offering the victim no place to hide.
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
Sep 29, 2014
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#16
I think this is not true. And not very interesting.
It's terrible, why are you watching this?
Very insightful posts here. I love your how you clearly state why you disagree with it and what you feel is wrong with it, instead of doing the absolute minimum to contribute to the discussion.

These two ladies have some great takes on the subject as well though. Maybe you should listen to them. I have a feeling you two won't like them though.

 
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Aug 22, 2018
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#17
Very insightful posts here. I love your how you clearly state why you disagree with it and what you feel is wrong with it, instead of doing the absolute minimum to contribute to the discussion.

These two ladies have some great takes on the subject as well though. Maybe you should listen to them. I have a feeling you two won't like them though.

I'm 99% sure it's a bot - look at its post history. Sorry, think you wasted your effort there!
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
Sep 29, 2014
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#18
I'm 99% sure it's a bot - look at its post history. Sorry, think you wasted your effort there!
I know they are bots/alts :p Trying to call attention to the behavior tho.
 
Jun 23, 2010
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#19
Daisy is seeking a way to monetize and cultivate a brand. Looks like she launched a YT channel in December. She had a Patron to raise funds. Right now she's trying to distinguish herself in a very crowded field. The way she's going about it is by appealing to discouraged young men who are being cultivated by the far right. She's using whataboutisms to try to excuse toxic masculinity. Things like feminists do the same thing!!1! Or claiming straight white men are scapegoats!!1! And stories about the hardships immigrants face are sentimentalized.!1! She deals in generalizations and pushing of myths which work well with certain audiences. Daisy seems very familiar with the causes that drive and triggers for her audience. Whether that's conservatives are better looking, feminists are ugly or the gay marriage movement is about using violence.

She knows certain people will hold her up as an example to say see my extreme views were right if this woman agrees with me! The same way when a minority supports Trump and suddenly that one minority is "telling it like it is". Looking at her history she says she was a feminists at one point. Only 4 years back she said men should stay out of the abortion debate even says Trump was semi wrong long before he ran. Now she embraces Trump. Like she embraced Milo. She likes to go on TV and do interviews. Supporting the alt right and being a firebrand will help propel her career.
 
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Jan 31, 2018
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#21
Daisy is seeking a way to monetize and cultivate a brand. Looks like she launched a YT channel in December. She had a Patron to raise funds. Right now she's trying to distinguish herself in a very crowded field. The way she's going about it is by appealing to discouraged young men who are being cultivated by the far right. She's using whataboutisms to try to excuse toxic masculinity. Things like feminists do the same thing!!1! Or claiming straight white men are scapegoats!!1! And stories about the hardships immigrants face are sentimentalized.!1! She deals in generalizations and pushing of myths which work well with certain audiences. Daisy seems very familiar with the causes that drive and triggers for her audience. Whether that's conservatives are better looking, feminists are ugly or the gay marriage movement is about using violence.

She knows certain people will hold her up as an example to say see my extreme views were right if this woman agrees with me! The same way when a minority supports Trump and suddenly that one minority is "telling it like it is". Looking at her history she says she was a feminists at one point. Only 4 years back she said men should stay out of the abortion debate even says Trump was semi wrong long before he ran. Now she embraces Trump. Like she embraced Milo. She likes to go on TV and do interviews. Supporting the alt right and being a firebrand will help propel her career.
“Any woman or minority going against the leftist narrative of eternal-victimhood must be an alt-right brainwashing plot for monetary gain”

It’s certainly possible that she’s only doing this for viewd, but you’re on some conspiracy-theory ish, my dude.
 
Nov 5, 2016
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#22
I had a boss once who routinely told me I was “only hired because you’re a man.” She would have me bring boxes to her car from our classroom (and vice versa) even if I was supposed to be supporting a student at the time. I was the only male in the SPED department and only person she tasked with this.

As I would be moving the boxes she would make comments like “see, this is why I needed a man,” and “this is only reason he’s here.” When I injured my knee during winter break and came back on crutches she threatened to have me force to retake a physical so if I failed it they could hire someone else. That’s when I got my administrator involved and things changed big time. All of the support staff filed separate complaints about her she wasn’t renewe, she left overnight to a different district in early March so we had at least a decent end to the school year.

The examples I list are just a small sample of what happened that year. It was awful. We were all affected by her just in different ways. Don’t get me started about the things she said about her ex-husband and what kind of man it takes to “be with her.”

Anyway. Is this “toxic feminity” or is it just a bad person being a jerk? I always just thought of it as sometimes you get a bad boss, sometimes toxic work environments happen.
 
Jun 23, 2010
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#23
So anyone who disagrees with you is alt right and any calling out of your hypocrisy is whataboutism. Got you.
Anyone who is alt right is a piece of shit. Who supports a white nationalist group and doesn't expect to be called a piece of shit?

Didn't say she was alt right. She embraces them though.
 
Aug 22, 2018
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#25
Anyone who is alt right is a piece of shit. Who supports a white nationalist group and doesn't expect to be called a piece of shit?

Didn't say she was alt right. She embraces them though.
Agree that the alt-right is pretty scummy. I would suggest that saying someone embraces the alt-right is making them an associate of the alt-right, as good as a member. Trouble is alt-right is thrown around willy-nilly these days, like nazi. I've personally been called alt-right, communist and nazi on the internet, sometimes on the same day.
 
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Nov 5, 2016
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#26
Agree that the alt-right is pretty scummy. I would suggest that saying someone embraces the alt-right is making them an associate of the alt-right, as good as a member. Trouble is alt-right is thrown around willy-nilly these days, like nazi. I've personally been called alt-right, communist and nazi on the internet, sometimes on the same day.
I agree. Falsely labeling people/things and generalizations, in general (couldn’t find a better word), just hurt “the cause” and create skepticism of actually bad people/things
 
Jan 24, 2018
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#27
Toxicity is an issue of the heart, not the penis or vagina.

For idiots who genuinely believe that only one gender can be toxic, this video may be useful to them.

For regular people who've lived in the real world for more than 20 seconds, this is common sense.
Toxic Masculinity is about society not gender or genitals.

Why is such a basic concept so hard for people to grasp? Toxic masculinity is not an attack on men, it's an attack on men and women who reinforce shitty sterotypes in boys and men.

And toxic femininity would be the same thing; what about society and the way it expects girls to act is toxic? Answer that question and you have a topic.
 
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matt404au

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#29
I wasn’t around for GamerGate so can you explain why Milo is so hated? I listened to him on Rogan and thought he was a sassy gay dude with a sharp tongue and a good sense of humour. He also really fucking hates feminism, which is totally kosher with me. Why exactly is he such a bogeyman?
 
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#30
I wasn’t around for GamerGate so can you explain why Milo is so hated? I listened to him on Rogan and thought he was a sassy gay dude with a sharp tongue and a good sense of humour. He also really fucking hates feminism, which is totally kosher with me. Why exactly is he such a bogeyman?
I know some people hate him because he suposedly supports pedophilia, or something.
 
Apr 18, 2018
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#31
Toxic Masculinity is about society not gender or genitals.

Why is such a basic concept so hard for people to grasp? Toxic masculinity is not an attack on men, it's an attack on men and women who reinforce shitty sterotypes in boys and men.

And toxic femininity would be the same thing; what about society and the way it expects girls to act is toxic? Answer that question and you have a topic.
Then what is positive masculinity? And why is the definition for "toxic masculinity" coming from a particular ideology instead of from within the male community?
 

matt404au

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Apr 25, 2009
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#33
I know some people hate him because he suposedly supports pedophilia, or something.
I heard what he said about pedophilia and I also listened to his explanation after, which was that he was trying to rationalise something that happened in his own life. I have a family member who was raped at a religious school and Milo's description of how he came to terms with it and moved on in life was quite similar to my family member's experience. If you don't rationalise it and turn it into something you can joke about, it consumes your entire identity and mental wellbeing. The reaction to Milo's comments seemed completely disproportionate to what he said and ignored his follow-up explanation, which leads me to believe he's done something else to piss off some people in positions of power. Either that, or I missed other things due to my not following GamerGate or much internet politics at all from around ~2012-2015.
 
Jun 30, 2013
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#34
You can call somebody alt-right but it doesn’t make it so. She is right, not alt-right. I read through your links to reach that conclusion. Just another case of anybody with right leaning views being the worst.
 
Jan 24, 2018
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#35
Then what is positive masculinity? And why is the definition for "toxic masculinity" coming from a particular ideology instead of from within the male community?
There is no single defiition and everyone from psychologists to random ideologues will have a different opinion. And some psychologists think it's bullshit, others don't.

I don't personally think there's anything inherently wrong with really basic gender roles, particularly the ones that coincide with pyhsiology (men are in fact stronger, that's going to change some of the basic roles we end up in.) Shitty things like telling boys not to cry, or to always resolve issues with fighting, etc. are things that are toxic. They'd be toxic to teach a little girl as well, but these things get labeled as toxic masculinity because they are more often than not taught to boys more than girls.

Toxic parenting would be a good label that doesn't trigger overly sensitve men, which would be fine. The point in the end is to not over-teach the idea that men and women are super different so giving it a non-gender based name would work fine. But these issues go way beyond what we teach little boys and girls so it would be hard to totally remove gender from the concept and still have an effective conversation. However starting with how we parent new generatinos we could make it more of a non-issue.
 
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Apr 15, 2018
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#37
I wasn’t around for GamerGate so can you explain why Milo is so hated? I listened to him on Rogan and thought he was a sassy gay dude with a sharp tongue and a good sense of humour. He also really fucking hates feminism, which is totally kosher with me. Why exactly is he such a bogeyman?
Because he hates feminists and he is popular.

It doesn't take much to be "alt-right". Hell at this point I think being popular and being conservative on the internet makes you alt right nowadays
 
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Aug 22, 2018
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#38
I suspect that any attempt at calling out the problems of feminism makes one alt-right. The irony that the alt-left are adopting much of what is traditionally the domain of the far-right is amusing.
 
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matt404au

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#40
I suspect that any attempt at calling out the problems of feminism makes one alt-right. The irony that the alt-left are adopting much of what is traditionally the domain of the far-right is amusing.
Just gotta not give a shit about labels. They can call me alt right for hating feminism if they want. It doesn’t mean anything.

Fuck feminism.

See? Nothing happened.
 
Aug 22, 2018
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#41
Just gotta not give a shit about labels. They can call me alt right for hating feminism if they want. It doesn’t mean anything.

Fuck feminism.

See? Nothing happened.
I have no issue with feminism in its older form of seeking to lift women up, that was a good thing. Fighting for the vote etc. I do have issues with the modern version of it. That is only about dragging men down. It's not a positive movement.
 
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matt404au

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#42
I have no issue with feminism in its older form of seeking to lift women up, that was a good thing. Fighting for the vote etc. I do have issues with the modern version of it. That is only about dragging men down. It's not a positive movement.
The modern version is worse, yes. But all versions have been based on Patriarchy theory, which is a lie. Yes, women gaining the right to vote was good, but it came without the reciprocal responsibility of the draft. Moreover, the history is always misrepresented as though men were oppressing women for the sake of it. There was a very small window in which men were allowed to vote and women weren’t. Before that, the right to vote was tied to property ownership and was therefore class-based. At the time, society was based around the family unit, and the man was the head of the household. Contrary to the narrative, this was a responsibility, not a right. Therefore, the man voted on behalf of the household. Before property-based voting rights was serfdom when no one besides the elites had a say.

It has all been based on a lie since day dot and the insanity of the modern feminist mind virus doesn’t absolve the lies of past strains.
 
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Aug 22, 2018
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#43
@matt404au - agree that it is represented as something that went on for longer than it actually did, and yes it was class-based (if only people would start talking about class instead of immutables - we'd achieve so much more progress in improving people's lives). In terms of responsibility, the draft is mostly no longer a thing, so while it was at that time, it isn't now, except for fairly special cases (Russia decides to invade the west).
I do think that, while feminism may have been based on some bullshit, it was helpful in many ways, as were other movements back in the day such as black rights movements to end segregation etc. The focus was far more on lifting these groups up, and while I don't love characterising people on immutables, I do think society was less fair in the past than it is now (and it's important to note that when seeing the modern version - they seem to ignore the vast progress made and whitewash the work of the great people of those eras). We still have a way to go, but in my view solving problems from a class perspective will do the most to lift people up. People in poor areas can't get good schooling so spend money to improve that, boom you've just lifted black people out of poverty (as well as white people, women, and any other group you care to mention).

My key thing here is lifting people up. We should, as a society, be trying to ensure maximum opportunity for as many people as possible, remove barriers where possible, so that we can all achieve as much as is possible, rather than tearing each other down, which is the primary goal of the newer movements, including modern feminism and intersectionalism.
 
Jun 23, 2010
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#45
You can call somebody alt-right but it doesn’t make it so. She is right, not alt-right. I read through your links to reach that conclusion. Just another case of anybody with right leaning views being the worst.
Bro I never said she was alt-right. I said she embraces the alt-right. You asked me to "prove it" so I sent you multiple links showing how she embraces them. She's even on some podcast talking with alt-right figures talking about "our side". Stop moving the field goals. The victim complex is also gross.
 
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