Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I mean it's pretty clear. Even if you disagree with their reasoning it makes sense.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Tracer's butt victory pose will be removed from Overwatch
- Thread starter CO_Andy
- Start date
- Status
the_batman
Banned
please explain to me how i'm an ignorant sexist. i need a good laugh.
they changed it because someone felt violated by it, right? i don't get how someone is already so attached to this character that they had this sort of response.
lol, i was joking with that line. my response to someone complaining about my work is to try to piss them off even more.
Ok I get it, and kinda agree with your point, it's just that I feel that people are wasting a lot of time and energy over such meaningless things that I don't see how they are helping to tackle the toxic environment that surrounds the e-sports/gaming community.
Just to be clear, I see no problems with blizzard removing that pose.
foolishoptimist
Member
Who designs pants like that for any purpose other than jerk off material?
Trickster
Member
I actually don't really have a problem with them changing the pose. However I think the argument for changing it is bollocks. You want to have a game with varied characters that are also appealing and interesting, while essentially having everyone who plays the game be perfectly okay with everything in the game? That's um, not gonna happen, ever.
After Tracer, there's gonna be people who find Widowmaker too sexual ( and it doesn't matter at all if she's intended to be sorta sexy by design while Tracer wasn't, people are still gonna be offended by her, we all know this ), or someone will find the japanese dude stereotypical, there's also the butch russian lady who fits a stereotypical image of lesbians etc etc.
After Tracer, there's gonna be people who find Widowmaker too sexual ( and it doesn't matter at all if she's intended to be sorta sexy by design while Tracer wasn't, people are still gonna be offended by her, we all know this ), or someone will find the japanese dude stereotypical, there's also the butch russian lady who fits a stereotypical image of lesbians etc etc.
And what I'm saying is that Blizzard is being honest with their reason to remove this.
You guys are talking like she posted and just after her post, they choose to remove the pose...
sea of angry people: "omg outrage culture!" *continue to overreact and remain unaware of their irony.*
McKeeverFever
Banned
Dear video game industry stop listening to angry feminists that don't play games.
Dice//
Banned
Well, I mean, I'm not sure what "joke level" we're on with this....but that comes off as kinda 'icky' given your stance on the matter.
B-but.... I do. D:
THis is my favourite part <3
Vincent Grayson
Member
It's almost definitely something like this. When I see people argue about artistic integrity for a fucking entertainment product created by dozens of different artists, all catering to things like marketability long before "artistic statement" or whatever, it just baffles me.
A company can't take a second look after someone says "Hey, this seems off to me", and conclude that they're right? For fuck's sake people, this isn't that complex.
Pretty much. Making another pose doesn't even take that long to do.
Why must we enact poe's law every time something like this happens
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Did you forget to log in on the right account or are you just moving goalposts here?
Your argument was that Blizzard is being forced by outside influences to do stuff. No one said anything about what you are claiming now.
hurricanes
Member
I hope you have a invisible /s or are joking...
It's fast approaching the Game of Thrones time of year, where vast swatches of Americans will go online to post that they're morally offended by the sight of breasts or implied sexual violence, but don't even register the on screen brutal decapitations or extreme torture.
This micro-drama is another facet of that. Moral outrage of the mildest deception of sexuality in a game with guns, blood and violence. Moral outrage that a female character has a bottom! How disgusting! Keep that filth out of my violent shooting games designed for adults!
To feel strong and powerful!
Dear video game industry, please don't listen to ignorant jerks.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
First Street Fighter V, then DOAX3, and now Overwatch?
VR is dead, guys.
VR is dead, guys.
There's no moving goalposts here. I'm saying that they choose to listed to the complaint of more than one person.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Your comment is clearly foolish but do explain why the shouldn't and how would you know?
Sorry, but it's always the PCs and the cultures and the JSWs strongarming innocent devs into doing something they don't want to.
Has to be. As if any self respecting developer would agree with these people.
veloxStrix
Banned
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Um, isn't that our argument? Yours was they were being forced, not that they chose.
You are literally pulling a Romney here and arguing the opposite of your original point.
some dude: "Hey this aspect of your game seems problematic and you should remove it."
devs: "Actually that aspect is important to the ethos of the product, and it's an integral part of the game's overall message."
*outrage ensues as media outlets and social sites protest the aspect*
*Devs remove the aspect of the game due to overwhelming pressure, and it's removal damages the ethos and message of the product.*
If this was the scenario then I'd be right with you guys protesting the censorship. But complaining that the devs chose to change a pose because they were persuaded by a decent argument is being fussy to the point where it comes across as near irrational.
devs: "Actually that aspect is important to the ethos of the product, and it's an integral part of the game's overall message."
*outrage ensues as media outlets and social sites protest the aspect*
*Devs remove the aspect of the game due to overwhelming pressure, and it's removal damages the ethos and message of the product.*
If this was the scenario then I'd be right with you guys protesting the censorship. But complaining that the devs chose to change a pose because they were persuaded by a decent argument is being fussy to the point where it comes across as near irrational.
cityhunter
Banned
You must not go outside and interact with the world much if that's your mentality
I feel like I'm being too generous in thinking that half of the one-off negative responses are just people being ironic
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Leave it to NeoGaf to turn this into a 1000+ post thread
Real talk though, my thoughts were that I would be pretty upset at Blizzard if they actually used "ethics" as their reason but that appears to have just been from some unaffiliated tweet. Looking at the actual rationale given I can understand the rationale to a degree. I just find it really hard to understand or sympathize how this optional pose is discomforting to any significant number of people. I can't nor am I going to straight up tell people they can't feel the way they want to feel and this is insignificant enough that I doubt many people will care in the end that this gets removed. It's just in this circumstance, I'm like really? I don't think this is really a thing worth having a bloody battle over and I don't think its removal necessarily sends any bad messages but like....really? Ah well, life moves on I guess.
Honestly, the bigger backlash seems to be coming from people seething that they removed her pose.
It's like...it's a game in development. It's not out yet. Changes happen. Deal with it, ya know?
Yes, they were pressured to remove it not only by her post, but because of many people complaing about it. That's what I'm saying.
Sorry if my post wasn't clear enough.
^Yeah I mean...I understand the pose itself could be questionable, but the actual character design? I walk outside for 5 minutes and probably 1 out of every 3 women I see are wearing super tight leggings or yoga pants that show their asses like the one seen in the OP.
chaobreaker
Member
I'm really loving that Stickin' Around avatar you got there friend.
ugh_the_boot
Banned
I guess they don't have music videos in America as well then? Seems like 90%+ of music videos are incredibly raunchy or sexually based in some way.
I know, right? It sounds likes foolishoptimist's only interaction with women is seeing them on porn sights. On any given day, I will see numerous women wearing 'active wear' that is equally as revealing.
That has more to do with the audience music videos are targeted vs. the audience Overwatch is targeting. People that watch music videos tend to expect sexiness in their videos, especially from female artists. Overwatch is targeting a more general and somewhat younger audience.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
But even that isn't really a reflection of reality. External forces without any sort of creative control (not that this had any sort of mass movement behind it) cannot force a dev to do anything.
If they wanted it in the game, it would be there. a thousand people screaming on twitter wouldn't change this. Devs are not slaves to whatever external force you think exists here.
It was changed because someone with creative control agreed with the post and ordered the change, as is their right.
chaobreaker
Member
What's funny? It's in tune to Bayo's personality and design. This is why the Blizzard forum poster even brought up the Tracer butt pose in the first place.
EDIT: Unless you just find the pose inherently funny then in that case ignore what I just posted.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I read the original thread on the bnet forums at least a day or two before kaplan commented and I kinda shrugged when I saw the pic. I just kinda thought the over the shoulder look was an almost generic heroic stance.
Also this came across my twitter feed:
He said it reduced her to a sex symbol.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
The thing is, that Bayonetta is a character who is sexually-aware. Tracer is pixie-like, if you've played her in game or seen her be played, she's very fast and nimble and very tricky. Almost like a fairy of sorts, moving fast, causing trouble by moving rapidly, laughing, jumping around.
It's rated T (teen). Post pubescent gamers, who - SHOCK HORROR - might have sexual thoughts or themselves like to wear similar leggings/active wear.
LumpOfCole
Member
I'm not sure the problem is the pose as much as it is the pants. In fact, if there really is an outcry against the pose moreso than the pants, that's what I find really surprising.
half a moon
Banned
Have you ever played a blizzard game and discussed patches with the community and cm's? Do you think every change should be gospel?
People in real life are complex, sometimes they do things that may not seem congruent to their personality. If something like that happens in a video game, it's now unacceptable?
I'm all for women being treated fairly and I do think there are plenty of instances in video games where women are depicted as shallow sex objects but I don't really see what the outrage is with that pose. It seems pretty harmless to me.
I'm all for women being treated fairly and I do think there are plenty of instances in video games where women are depicted as shallow sex objects but I don't really see what the outrage is with that pose. It seems pretty harmless to me.
And that's what I don't think it's right. I don't really believe that they removed it only because they agreed with the woman's post.
And I think devs are being more and more controlled by player feedback these days. More than ever it was in the past.
But we'll agree to disagree. I'll never convince you of the opposite, but seeing so many games changing their content because of "fitting to the tastes of the market" is telling for me.
Bye guys, it's was nice posting a bit about this without getting banned.
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
Oh sweet more jerk off material.
I am joking. It's a joke. I am sorry if it's not funny, still a joke.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked