Gander
Banned
If the current laws don't consider what Trump has done impeachable or inappropriate than it's time to make up some new laws. In case Congress has forgotten what they do, they make laws.
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trump / putin News conference
- Thread starter Cauliflower of Love
- Start date
If the current laws don't consider what Trump has done impeachable or inappropriate than it's time to make up some new laws. In case Congress has forgotten what they do, they make laws.
Fox Mulder
Member
Dems wouldn't impeach a Dem president either. I hate Trump, but people are being hysterical.
Dems just need to go win elections. That's how Trump and the GOP got into power all over the country. Russia didn't hack a single vote last I saw.
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Hobobaggins
Neo Member
Its almost like pedestrians in L.A. know this is a Kimmel bit so they say stupid shit in hopes of getting on T.V. to get noticed and be able to quit their service industry job.
Chiggs
Member
I have no doubt that Congress will effectively neuter the position of President in the future. I'm not sure that's entirely a good thing, and always caution against emotional decisions, but it does seem likely (and then we can be just like England, with a figurehead for the tourists and a worthless Parliament for everyone else).
Call me crazy, but I have faith that Mueller's investigation will bring about a conclusion one way or another.
Gander
Banned
This is a unprecedented situation, do they want to go down in history as the Congress who enabled a tyrant to control the U.S. gov't?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I'm not sure I want any president to follow the Reagan Doctrine, ramping up the military industrial complex and funding shady rebel groups that later turn into terrorists just because I don't like Communism.
Kittehkraken
Member
The Cuban Missiles Crisis was a unprecedented situation.
This is the current situation in real time:
Arkage
Banned
Trump literally runs these organizations and appointed those in charge of the FBI and CIA and he's still trashing them and disputing their claims about Russia. It's his own appointees and own administration. It's insanity driven by his huge ego. He's pretending he's not in charge of the actual government so he can keep bitching about it since it was what got him elected. And really, the only part he's bitching about is the Russian part, since his administration has been directly compromised by their investigations (Flynn/Manafort).
Yeah let allow hysterical morons to make new laws to impeach politicians because they can't win elections.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
With that said, I suppose there are two ways (for now) that we can look at this.
> He is compromised and ideally the left and the right would both agree with each other that the safety of the American people and due process comes first.
Or
> He is as non-partisan for diplopacy as he has always said, and that pisses both sides off because he does not subscribe to the extremes that they're displaying.
Both situations have multiple perspectives.
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
Went to sleep and woke up to realize that left is pushing for war. Time flies...
Regarding intelligence services...Well Russian looks more creditible because they could get access to DNC server, while FBI couldn't ROFL.
Though the problem is that CIA and FBI became politicized, while they shouldn't be.
Regarding intelligence services...Well Russian looks more creditible because they could get access to DNC server, while FBI couldn't ROFL.
Though the problem is that CIA and FBI became politicized, while they shouldn't be.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
This dates back to 9/11 where they refused to work together with intelligence to prevent something supposedly, how soon we forget.
And I am sure it has been going on since both formations, but that is one of the most recent (before this) major outliers with them.
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Arkage
Banned
He publically trashed the UK Prime Minister for reasons completely unrelated to America, and praises/gladhands Putin despite American agencies arguing that Russians were shitting on our election. Trump displays plenty of extremes: he just saves his extremist wrath for our American allies and goes easy on strong-man dictators.
That being said, I don't think it's a certainty that he's compromised by Russia to any substantial extent. Maybe some money was used to float some his failing businesses years ago, but not as far reaching as many liberals hope. I believe another explanation is that he's just so damn petty and egotistical that he wants to do the opposite of Obama at all costs. Which means being friends with dictators and trashing allies. Plus, he probably enjoys the "strong-man" persona and the power trip that comes with it. He basically wants to have the power of impunity that Putin has over Russia - that total domination over the political system. He'd like to be an adored dictator, but he has to settle for being a fairly unliked democratic leader.
"[China's Xi is] now president for life. President for life. No, he's great. And look, he was able to do that. I think it's great. Maybe we'll have to give that a shot some day." -Trump, half joking and half wishing upon a star
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
If I was to fashion the tinfoil-hat right now, it almost feels like there may be a larger scheme at play where the things at surface level and the commentary you mentioned are just the very tip of it.
That was not an insult to you, it is just me looking at it and thinking how ridiculous this drama seems to appear (on the surface) with the complexity of everything that's involved.
As a side note, lol, has Trump ever mentioned "New World Order" yet like the all the presidents in the last 40-50 years?
ChuckeRearmed
Member
I am sure that Iraq invasion was desirable. But diving into it will lead to conspiracy theories.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Can you elaborate on that response a little more?
Platinumstorm
Member
So I had a very busy day and missed anything regarding the conference.
On my way home, after leaving work several hours after I had tidied up for the day I was listening to NPR. I was listening to all of the criticisms, from all political orientations. From what I've scanned here before I've gone to bed, our resident Trumpets aren't really caring to recognize this. The statement that resonated with me the most, wasn't McCain or Brennan's scathing comments, but it was actually a quote I believe I can attribute to Barbara Perry, who is an oral historian. She served for Chief Justice Rehnquist, for those of you looking for a political connection on which direction you want to fire off the angry comments, denials, or orders of support. Paraphrasing her quote "The United States needs the help of all the former United States Presidents."
It's a stunning plea. It's a recognition of the failures of the United States government underneath the Trump administration. It's a concern that our President doesn't have the judgement to lead us through this time where he calls the European Union foes, where the president of the United States discusses "US foolishness and stupidity". Trumpets: you would call for nothing short of removal of a Democratic president with comments like that, and yet, here you are, with the decades of patriotic talk standing by idly as the President of the United States tears apart the foundation of global order which had us at the top; which helped to stabilize geopolitical forces.
"My people came to me, Dan Coats came to me and some others, they said they think it's Russia. I have President Putin; he just said it's not Russia. I will say this: I don't see any reason why it would be." -President Donald John Trump"
That's a legacy quote. Put that in your head, let it stew, because that is a quote that will represent the entire sum of the president's first term.
Spoiler alert: when all of your intelligence agencies, and both major parties of the United States tell you that Russia was and still is actively meddling in the United States political scene: you can trust that they are. This is who you voted for, and this is what you're supporting.
You have the opportunity here, with my full support, to call for the impeachment of President Trump so that we can put in a super-conservative, who I believe, has at least the bearings to navigate the United States somewhat safely through whatever we want to call is happening right now. But that's not happening, and it won't happen.
So we're left calling upon the past to right the wrongs and inaction of the people who put tribe before country today.
On my way home, after leaving work several hours after I had tidied up for the day I was listening to NPR. I was listening to all of the criticisms, from all political orientations. From what I've scanned here before I've gone to bed, our resident Trumpets aren't really caring to recognize this. The statement that resonated with me the most, wasn't McCain or Brennan's scathing comments, but it was actually a quote I believe I can attribute to Barbara Perry, who is an oral historian. She served for Chief Justice Rehnquist, for those of you looking for a political connection on which direction you want to fire off the angry comments, denials, or orders of support. Paraphrasing her quote "The United States needs the help of all the former United States Presidents."
It's a stunning plea. It's a recognition of the failures of the United States government underneath the Trump administration. It's a concern that our President doesn't have the judgement to lead us through this time where he calls the European Union foes, where the president of the United States discusses "US foolishness and stupidity". Trumpets: you would call for nothing short of removal of a Democratic president with comments like that, and yet, here you are, with the decades of patriotic talk standing by idly as the President of the United States tears apart the foundation of global order which had us at the top; which helped to stabilize geopolitical forces.
"My people came to me, Dan Coats came to me and some others, they said they think it's Russia. I have President Putin; he just said it's not Russia. I will say this: I don't see any reason why it would be." -President Donald John Trump"
That's a legacy quote. Put that in your head, let it stew, because that is a quote that will represent the entire sum of the president's first term.
Spoiler alert: when all of your intelligence agencies, and both major parties of the United States tell you that Russia was and still is actively meddling in the United States political scene: you can trust that they are. This is who you voted for, and this is what you're supporting.
You have the opportunity here, with my full support, to call for the impeachment of President Trump so that we can put in a super-conservative, who I believe, has at least the bearings to navigate the United States somewhat safely through whatever we want to call is happening right now. But that's not happening, and it won't happen.
So we're left calling upon the past to right the wrongs and inaction of the people who put tribe before country today.
prag16
Banned
What's funny about this whole thing is that liberals are currently yelling and screaming about this. If Obama was trying to build bridges with Putin, it'd be a different story. He'd be the good guy restoring our reputation around the world, peddling peace, and shitting on the Neocons.
But since it's Trump doing it, it's treason, and the neocons and the liberals are suddenly on common ground.
(And no I don't believe any of this collusion nonsense. Show me receipts.)
But since it's Trump doing it, it's treason, and the neocons and the liberals are suddenly on common ground.
(And no I don't believe any of this collusion nonsense. Show me receipts.)
Cauliflower of Love
Banned
They did try to "build bridges". You're familiar with the reset button thing.
The Obama admin is responsible for the FBI investigation in regards to russian influence, with 20+ guilty pleas and indictments coming at a worrying pace.
but yea, this is just stupid made up shit.
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King of Foxes
Banned
And my faith in America standing up for the Baltics WHEN Russia starts shit has taken another blow.
Death Dealer
Member
Noone has plead guilty to colluding with Russia. I've told you that before, and you still act like they've arrested people for spying.
The biggest catch, Manafort, is in trouble for tax and banking fraud. Nothing to do with Trump or the 2016 campaign.
Cauliflower of Love
Banned
It's hard to read this as anything other than a low effort goad. If you have nothing to say, then don't post.
prag16
Banned
This. Maybe they have something but they're holding back for an October surprise or something, but not sure Mueller would be trying to help the Dems. Basically they've uncovered very little, and anybody expecting this to lead to a Trump indictment is probably going to end up disappointed.
DasPenguin
Member
So if Obama's daughter was meeting with Russians pre election to get dirt on competition, Obama had people working him that did the exact same things some Trump officials have been accused of, Obama made fun of Mexicans, republicans, some democrats, European Union, Canada, etc, while also calling a NK dictator a "strong negotiator" and sided with Putin against the American intelligence community, everyone would praise Obama. This is your argument? I'm just checking that I'm not seeing things. It's really hard to believe an adult would come to this conclusion.
But this is the world we live in, when people still believe this investigation is about collusion, even though the people doing the investigation have never uttered those words. But I guess life is much easier to tolerate when you can just ignore the opinion of others by calling them a "liberal" or a "right wing idiot", or when faced with facts you just call it "fake news", "spin" or "biased".
Thankfully my country doesn't have this problem, at least not yet. I thank the educational system for that.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Trump is a coward.
Cauliflower of Love
Banned
or maybe they are having an investigation?
prag16
Banned
That's pretty uncalled for, buddy. RE collusion, maybe you should tell all the American journalists at today's presser this, if none of it's about collusion. Because they sure as hell couldn't stop asking about it.
And to answer your initial question, yes. Yes liberals would have been praising Obama. Not "everyone" praising Obama. But his died in the wool base. It's all spin. From both sides.
Maybe.
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PkunkFury
Member
Mariia Butina was just arrested, obviously the other Russians indicted haven't been arrested yet (and likely never will be) because they aren't in the USA
A number of US persons are mentioned in Butina's affidavit and in Friday's indictments, but have not yet been indicted. Based on what's described in the legal docs, it's likely many of them will see charges
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DasPenguin
Member
Actually, it isn't, because you actually believe that. You know the people who have made the collusion song and dance popular, right? Trump and Hannity. If you took a drink every time either one of the two said "collusion", you'd be an alcoholic by now.
And I'm pretty sure republicans aren't happy about the president throwing the intelligence community under the bus.
Vicetrailia
Member
Trump is a bitch, and got his shit twisted in order to improve relations with Russia. This is uncharacteristic by any means necessary.
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Cauliflower of Love
Banned
maeby
PkunkFury
Member
You have no idea what they've uncovered, you only know what they've made public. Telegraphing their every move would jeopardize the investigation. It's clear the senate intelligence committee knew a lot more than we know, and they still didn't know everything in Friday's indictments. Thus there's a lot of information, and it's been doled out on a need-to-know basis
But we already have plenty of information which points to where DOJ is looking. We know they have evidence of the hacks taking place via Dutch intelligence, to the point that they know specifically which people did the hacking (via the cctv footage).
We also know they have enough evidence to make the following assertions:
- At least one member of congress and one reporter requested the stolen information.
- Someone close to the Trump campaign coordinated the release of the leaked material
- A Russian agent was working with Trump since 2015, and groomed his position on sanctions
- Said agent setup channels of communication between Republican leadership and the Kremlin using the NRA
- Multiple US persons, including another congressman, were involved in coordinating with this Russian agent
- Russians had a hand in choosing Trump's secretary of state
- probably some stuff I missed, I haven't followed this too closely
We will not know how they have come to these conclusions until there are trials. Fortunately, they finally have someone arrested who will be tried, so you will get your wish in time (unless Trump returns her to Putin, lol). Some of the information that lead to the arrest will be revealed
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PkunkFury
Member
how so?
You will find those assertions in the indictments and in the affidavit. Have you read them?
If you have more information that contradicts this, please let me know, as I find the subject fascinating and would be happy to learn more
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Vicetrailia
Member
The funnies are dropping now:
PkunkFury
Member
While the verbiage is my attempt to summarize, and may missrepresent to some extent, these items are from the DOJ, not the "deep state", and they are from legal documents which will be demonstrated in court, thus they are not propaganda
You have not provided any information that contradicts what I posted. I dont believe you have any new insight into this case
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Cato
Banned
Trump is pretty good at trolling MSM.
Maybe next he will tell them there is no b3 bomber.
Because there is no information to prove or disprove that Russians had a hand in choosing the sec of state. Its just bullshit deep state sources, its all nonsense.
Mueller purposely lied to congress about WMDs in Iraq so that we would invade it. Some call that a war criminal. He is deepstate garbage.
PkunkFury
Member
The secretary of state info comes from the affadivit, it's in comunications made by Butina
Mueller was FBI, which is national. He wouldn't have investigated WMDs. And from what I recall Bush sidestepped CIA
But you can keep crying deep state rather than trying to understand what is going on if it makes you feel better
Everyone in the high levels of government knew there was no WMDs, it was all bullshit, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 either. This is the person you trust?
Butina isn't related to the Mueller investigation so not sure why you are bringing that up.
Gander
Banned
There is something I am truly baffled by. Why come back? You're out of the country, your benefactor is right there with you. Go ahead and defect. There is nothing good coming down the pipe here in the U.S. More legal fees, more accusations more Mueller investigation, OMG poor Huckabee Sanders she is in for a helluva upcoming press conference. Why come back to face all this drama?
Is this a fake account?
ChuckeRearmed
Member
After the collapse of USSR, NATO - which was a construct of bi-polar world became obsolete. (Clinton dealt with the final construct of USSR in 90s). I heard a quote of that in order to make NATO relevant again, some guys came up with the idea of international terrorism. Thus 9/11, Iraq invasion and so. What threats and what uses NATO had in early 2000s? Without some threat - there was not even a reason to keep that. 9/11 was basically Perl Harbor like event, which allowed to start scenarios leading to the modern type of terrorism.
After all even democrats did not leave the middle east either. If we dive into the conspiracy deeper - what if Iran was granted the right to govern the middle east (after all it is the single shia state there)? They made a nuclear deal with Iran and later they did no oppose Iran directly (thus it had influence in Yemen, Iraq and so on). And even in Syria they didn't really want to conflict with Iran. Also other countries - which actually was also not better than Iran political and economical wise, even secular a little - experienced Arab spring.
Trump is a basically a ram, that should break the modern global constructs - the next president might not me as harsh as Trump, but the policy will be similar but less aggressive - just like Bush and Obama. Vastly different approaches (or not really though) but instability in the middle east continued. With USA involvement. But Trump's actions are too harsh thus he even conflicts with other republicans and can be considered as sacrificial pawn in that sense. But the idea is to break modern global networks and form old-fashioned structures.
P.S. 9/11 was made into a galvanizing event...And now left are advocating for war with Russia. Interesting right?
P.P.S. NATO is useless against China BTW. Strange right? It can do anything and western world can do nothing.
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TheLaughingStock
Member
https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...r-indictment-tells-us-about-election-hacking/
They don't utter it the way it's used publicly and in the media because it's not a legal term.
However, I don't see why some people waste their energy pretending it's not about collusion or trying to convince folks that you can separate the core reason for these investigations from Trump's legitimacy as president. A lot of people aren't fooled by the charade. People know exactly what folks are trying to get at.
The critics are saying Donald Trump is a Russian puppet that has committed a form of treason and will be found guilty of one or more crimes by the time the investigations are over. He needs to be removed from office because he committed a crime and is compromised. You can pretend these investigations aren't about proving that conclusion and making the facts fit that narrative, but the point of this sad episode in US history is self-evident.
This is folks lashing out at the fact tens of millions of Americans supported Trump, voted 3rd party or stayed home in 2016. Out of over 200 million eligible voters, Trump got 62 million in the right places and Clinton received 65 million in the wrong places. Some people want to void that outcome. They can't accept it.
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DasPenguin
Member
I'll give you a 9.5 on the dismount. Not enough spin to warrant a ten, sorry.
Yeah, and that's why everyone backed up going to war, right? Are you really on the witch hunt camp? I mean seriously. Once more, I blame the terrible educational system and the two party system for the current situation in America. Everyone rooting for their party like it's some damn sports team, not being able to see anything good or bad in ones own party. it's either damn liberals or damn rightwingers. No other options. World isn't that black and white. If you do that, you are an idiot.
Do I think Trump worked together with Putin to win the election? No. Do I believe Putin wanted Trump to become the president? Yes. Did he set up troll factories in several European countries to spread lies that idiots in social media would believe? Of course he did. (Dumb people are easy to fool, just look at Brexit. Promise enough savings that are based on absolutely nothing and tell the fools their lives will be better, and they will vote for you. All you need is a low turnout and you are golden.) Did Trump's people do some incredibly shady shit during the election prosess? Of course they did. This is politics. Is there a witch hunt? No. Is Trump a simpleton who has no idea what he's doing? Yes. His business "success" pretty much confirms it.
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we are scraping the bottom of the barrel now."I knew a lady, who knew a guy, who served under a guy, who did this thing, and I'm telling you...we have to impeach the president and go to war with Russia. "
Wew, some people here are truly gone off the deep end with their unending defense of Trump no matter what he does. Can you imagine if Obama said that he trusts Putin over US intelligence? Even ignoring the entire collusion thing this was a pathetic display by him. He's a pussy whenever Russia is involved.
Platinumstorm
Member
"I knew a lady, who knew a guy, who served under a guy, who did this thing, and I'm telling you...we have to impeach the president and go to war with Russia. "
I provide background information on people who aren't significantly known. I find the current trend here talking about war with Russia amusing, as that is clearly a partisan talking point. That's not what democrats are looking for, but keep trying, and keep political tribalism at the forefront of your priorities.