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Trump says US will impose 5% tariff on all Mexican imports from June 10

JORMBO

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Honest question. What are Mexico's major exports to the US that will be tarrifed? I don't recall using too many Mexican products in my daily life.
Mexico is currently our 3rd largest goods trading partner with $531 billion in total (two way) goods trade during 2015. Goods exports totaled $236 billion; goods imports totaled $295 billion. The U.S. goods trade deficit with Mexico was $58 billion in 2015.
Following are the most important imports from Mexico.

Vehicles $74 Billion (Passenger cars, Vehicle parts)
Electrical Machinery $63 Billion (Flat screen TVs , Electrical Generators, Monitors)
Machinery $49 Billion
Crude Oil $14 Billion
Medical Instruments $12 Billion
Fresh Vegetables $4.8 Billion (Avocados, Tomatoes)
Fresh Fruits $4.3 Billion
Alcoholic Beverages $2.7 Billion (Beer, Tequila)
Rubber $2.4 Billion
Snack Foods $1.7 Billion
Processed Fruits and Vegetables $1.4 Billion
 
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TrainedRage

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I'm fine with this. Illegal immigration costs both countries in the long run. If that means Trump scares them into taking it more seriously then that's a good thing imo.

And I tend to not buy much products from Mexico as I live in the North Midwest any how.

Funny how people are overreacting to this. But not supprising at this point. Anything Trump does will be a negative to the left. I'm done trying to convince them.
 
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You're missing the point entirely.

#1: The wall won't work to reduce immigration for obvious reasons. See the Cato institute study I posted above. Therefore it's a waste of time and money to even consider.
The wall will absolutely mitigate illegal migration. It won’t stop it. No one is arguing that it will. Where there is a will there is a way. What it absolutely won’t do is stop illicit drug imports.

#2: Mexico does not pay tariffs, American companies do. They respond by passing costs onto their customers. Drumpf is literally taking from the poor and giving to the ...
If Americans don’t buy goods the factories react to supply and demand. Jobs in Mexico dry up and hours get cut. Pressure is applied to Mexicans and their representatives.

Are you in economics denial?
 

Trey

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Funny how people are overreacting to this. But not supprising at this point. Anything Trump does will be a negative to the left. I'm done trying to convince them.
Liberal Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) on the tariffs: "Trade policy and border security are separate issues. This is a misuse of presidential tariff authority and counter to congressional intent. Following through on this threat would seriously jeopardize passage of USMCA, a central campaign pledge of President Trump’s and what could be a big victory for the country."
 
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Mihos

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I am for the tarrif's in China, that is a fight we need to have. It is also targeted at the actual problem.

This one seems like it is mistargeted to the actual problem.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Trump is pretty smart in how he is handling this.

Your average American normie wasn't talking about tariffs and the impact on local economy and arguing back and forth until Trump started to make it a plank in his MAGA campaign.

Now all the tariff experts come out of the woodwork to sing praises or cast condemnation. I've heard more about how tariffs will work, how they won't work, how they will create more American jobs, how they will destroy American business, etc etc etc during Trump's presidency than during my previous ~30 years of life leading up to 2016.

But few are willing to admit that it was Trump who "started the conversation". He seems to be doing that a lot: starting conversations on oft-ignored topics until the media is forced to pay attention to it. Trump's willingness to shine a light on these issues is what folks want from their politicians. If the Democrats hope to beat Trump, they need to be more transparent than Trump on the issues that affect Americans.

This is what a good president should be doing.
 

TrainedRage

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Liberal Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) on the tariffs: "Trade policy and border security are separate issues. This is a misuse of presidential tariff authority and counter to congressional intent. Following through on this threat would seriously jeopardize passage of USMCA, a central campaign pledge of President Trump’s and what could be a big victory for the country."
A "liberal republican"? WTF is that? Trump has proven that hard talk is effective in getting people to negotiate. If this gets Mexico to take this issue more seriously I'm for it. And I don't believe for a second that either the US or Mexico would back out of the USMCA.

Part of being in an alliance is making deals and negotiations. The US has bent the knee to Mexico for 8 years or more. It a time for a new plan because they aren't taking us seriously and it continues to be a problem.
 
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NickFire

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I can't say I ever considered tariffs to be a tool for combating Mexico's open highway into the US desert, but I really don't care if its held up. At least he is actually trying to get something done to stop the flow that ends up costing taxpayers countless billions each year, all while driving down wages and making housing more scarce for the people without large incomes.
 

pramod

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Trump is pretty smart in how he is handling this.

Your average American normie wasn't talking about tariffs and the impact on local economy and arguing back and forth until Trump started to make it a plank in his MAGA campaign.

Now all the tariff experts come out of the woodwork to sing praises or cast condemnation. I've heard more about how tariffs will work, how they won't work, how they will create more American jobs, how they will destroy American business, etc etc etc during Trump's presidency than during my previous ~30 years of life leading up to 2016.

But few are willing to admit that it was Trump who "started the conversation". He seems to be doing that a lot: starting conversations on oft-ignored topics until the media is forced to pay attention to it. Trump's willingness to shine a light on these issues is what folks want from their politicians. If the Democrats hope to beat Trump, they need to be more transparent than Trump on the issues that affect Americans.

This is what a good president should be doing.
This is an excellent point that I want to expand on a little bit further. It's not just "starting the conversation", he is also "pushing the boundaries", and "establishing a new normal" on many of these "taboo" political topics such as illegal immigration, trade with China, etc. Because he is trying to do SO much, it forces everyone to pay attention to these matters and destroys the notion that doing nothing is still acceptable(which is what Democrats prefer). He is already setting himself up for 2020 by forcing these topics to the forefront so that the media and Dems have to offer their own solutions.
 

Trojita

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I don't know how they (Mexico) could accomplish what the US wants without the tariff going all the way up to 25%. People in the US will definitely know something is fucked up when all of their produce is suddenly 25% more expensive.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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I don't know how they (Mexico) could accomplish what the US wants without the tariff going all the way up to 25%. People in the US will definitely know something is fucked up when all of their produce is suddenly 25% more expensive.
Produce shipped across long distances is extremely bad for the environment, and wasteful.

If anything, Trump is helping us all to reduce our carbon footprint by making it less profitable to ship cheap products made by cheap workers from distant lands.
 
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If Americans don’t buy goods the factories react to supply and demand. Jobs in Mexico dry up and hours get cut. Pressure is applied to Mexicans and their representatives.

Are you in economics denial?
The truth is Mexico isn't going to dramatically curtail illegal immigration by June. You could leverage a tariff of 2500% and they'll still be coming in.

In addition, I don't think a lot of jobs in Mexico will dry up because changing the status quo takes time and costs money. People will make excuses to play the wait and see game. For example, you probably want to wait and see if Pres. Trump is reelected before you pack up your stuff.

There are a number of other things Mexico can count on too.

The value of the US dollar continuing to drive America's chronic trade problems.

Mexico's own subsidies/retaliation to protect themselves.

The fact the US will probably need new tax cuts and spending increases to sustain growth in America which affects America's trade problems.

And you know American farmers are going share their personal stories with Pres. Trump to help them. They're saying the welfare isn't enough to make ends meet.
 

pramod

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They expect a government that can’t get a grip on its own domestic crime and gangs to get a grip on illegal immigration? That’s a knee slapper.
They barely have to do anything, really. Mexico's southern border is not that large and is barely regulated. Right now they are simply letting thousands of people walk through daily. They can just stop doing that.
 
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NickFire

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The truth is Mexico isn't going to dramatically curtail illegal immigration by June. You could leverage a tariff of 2500% and they'll still be coming in.
I agree they probably won't really try. Why bother when all the US media and half the US politicians will say Trump is wrong for trying to stop them less than 2 years before the next election, and cheers for their refusal to stop allowing open borders?

But if Mexico wanted to, they could dramatically curtail people crossing through Mexico with ease. Stopping their own people is a different story of course.
 
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bucyou

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The truth is Mexico isn't going to dramatically curtail illegal immigration by June. You could leverage a tariff of 2500% and they'll still be coming in.

In addition, I don't think a lot of jobs in Mexico will dry up because changing the status quo takes time and costs money. People will make excuses to play the wait and see game. For example, you probably want to wait and see if Pres. Trump is reelected before you pack up your stuff.

There are a number of other things Mexico can count on too.

The value of the US dollar continuing to drive America's chronic trade problems.

Mexico's own subsidies/retaliation to protect themselves.

The fact the US will probably need new tax cuts and spending increases to sustain growth in America which affects America's trade problems.

And you know American farmers are going share their personal stories with Pres. Trump to help them. They're saying the welfare isn't enough to make ends meet.
Are you seriously saying Mexico cannot stop caravans traveling from their southern border to their northern border?
 
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autoduelist

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#1 One cherry picked study out of a thousands makes your point while you ignore the other 999 studies.
Walls absolutely work. They do not stop people from climbing them or passing them but they slow people down enough to make other responses effective.
This. And the major issue is that once they get across the border, it begins a long, expensive process even if we catch them. Preventing a good % people from simply running across the border will save fortunes in processing, bedding, etc. A wall does that.
 

NickFire

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This. And the major issue is that once they get across the border, it begins a long, expensive process even if we catch them. Preventing a good % people from simply running across the border will save fortunes in processing, bedding, etc. A wall does that.
Saying walls do not work is like saying the flu shot is worthless because it won't stop every possible flu strain. Ignore the people who say walls don't work. They are either lying or deluded by their own hatred.
 

ssolitare

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Produce shipped across long distances is extremely bad for the environment, and wasteful.

If anything, Trump is helping us all to reduce our carbon footprint by making it less profitable to ship cheap products made by cheap workers from distant lands.
Actually due to the Midwest flooding we'll have to rely on imports more this year.

California and Florida can't supply everything.
 

Cybrwzrd

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You're missing the point entirely.

#1: The wall won't work to reduce immigration for obvious reasons. See the Cato institute study I posted above. Therefore it's a waste of time and money to even consider.

#2: Mexico does not pay tariffs, American companies do. They respond by passing costs onto their customers. Drumpf is literally taking from the poor and giving to the reach.

#3: Mexico is treating this as a humanitarian issue. I'm sure most of the people who are raging against immigrants are from the midwest where they've never seen an immigrant in their lives. Don't fall for FOX and Drumpf talking points.

Stop cherry picking and regurgitating Tariff Man talking points.
Immigrants are all over the Midwest, what are you even talking about?

Also, why is a liberal using that garbage Cato institute to make your points. Fucking clown world. Honk honk.
 
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cryptoadam

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Just ask Israel how well walls work. We paid for theirs.

The report notes that the number of people illegally crossing the Israel-Egypt border was more than 16,000 in 2011 and less than 20 in 2016, a 99 percent decrease.
I guess since it was only 99% it proves its a failure and walls are useless LOL.

Someone should of told the Chinese and maybe they wouldn't have wasted their time building the GREAT WALL OF CHINA.
 

kiunchbb

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Good, we need higher wages and more jobs for American first. Supply and demand works.
 

HenkDV

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I guess since it was only 99% it proves its a failure and walls are useless LOL.

Someone should of told the Chinese and maybe they wouldn't have wasted their time building the GREAT WALL OF CHINA.
The wall in Israel is only 245 km long thus making it much easier to monitor than a wall that has to span the over 3,000 km long US-Mexico border.
The Chinese wall situation isn't really that comparable either as it was used to (generally successfully!) fend of hostile armies (big and small) and not really a relatively slow trickle of small groups of imiigrants over a long period of time.

Also fun fact, @DunDunDunpachi, Mongols did actually climb the walls and towers with grappling hooks!
 
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cryptoadam

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The wall in Israel is only 245 km long thus making it much easier to monitor than a wall that has to span the over 3,000 km long US-Mexico border.
The Chinese wall situation isn't really that comparable either as it was used to (generally successfully!) fend of hostile armies (big and small) and not really a relatively slow trickle of small groups of imiigrants over a long period of time.

Also fun fact, @DunDunDunpachi, Mongols did actually climb the walls and towers with grappling hooks!
And Israel is a small country the size of New Jersey with 8 million people, nor the economic power of the USA.

If tiny Israel can do it, the US which is the richest and most powerful nation in the world can. Jews didn't use their weather control devices to make the wall work (/s).

76 other countries have walls as well and none of them are the power or economy of the US.
 
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Gashtronomy

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Won't this promote a positive side-effect in making American companies think twice about relocating south of the border? Or producing goods in sister-plants, at a fraction of the price, then shipping them to America to sell at full RRP?

I would think that the migrant issue was a voter-friendly face of the administration going all-out on skeezy companies, while saving face, with said companies.
 

HenkDV

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Well, good thing we have 55x the GDP and 37x the population to handle securing 12.8x the length of border.
Fair enough, but how much money are you willing to spend on building and maintaining a wall/fence similar to the one at the Israel-Egypt border?
I'm not saying a wall can't work, I just think that it seems like it would require a lot of money to be effective. Trump's 5-10 billion (or whatever it is these days) doesn't strike me as being even remotely close to being enough to build, let alone man and maintain it properly.

Are there any good numbers on the costs of a proper wall and the overall costs of the illegal immigrants? Genuinely curious.
 
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EviLore

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Fair enough, but how much money are you willing to spend on building and maintaining a wall/fence similar to the one at the Israel-Egypt border?
I'm not saying a wall can't work, I just think that it seems like it would require a lot of money to be effective. Trump's 5-10 billion (or whatever it is these days) doesn't strike me as being even remotely close to being enough to build, let alone man and maintain it properly.

Are there any good numbers on the costs of a proper wall and the overall costs of the illegal immigrants? Genuinely curious.
This article quotes a low to high range (along D/R partisan lines):

"The Trump administration wants to enforce border security with a combination of a physical wall and natural barriers that would protect the estimated 1,933 miles-long border between the United States and Mexico. Many different cost estimates have been thrown around, from as little as $8 billion to as much as $70 billion, with anywhere from $150 million per year to $750 million per year in maintenance. "
 

autoduelist

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The wall in Israel is only 245 km long thus making it much easier to monitor than a wall that has to span the over 3,000 km long US-Mexico border.
The Chinese wall situation isn't really that comparable either as it was used to (generally successfully!) fend of hostile armies (big and small) and not really a relatively slow trickle of small groups of imiigrants over a long period of time.

Also fun fact, @DunDunDunpachi, Mongols did actually climb the walls and towers with grappling hooks!
Currently we have massive numbers coming because it's super easy, and they know as soon as they cross the border, there is a high likelihood that not only will they never be sent back, but they will have access to emergency services, healthcare, food, and more.... and, as an added bonus, should citizenship ever be granted to existing illegal aliens as part of a greater compromise, they'll be here for it.

A wall stops a lot of those journeys. A wall with some basic electronic surveillance will catch most breaches, and certainly any large ones.

We can't even begin to discuss any of the major economic programs [ie, free stuff] Democrats keep going on about until the borders are secured. Free healthcare, for example, is incompatible with open borders. Programs like UBI [which is terrible to begin with, but bear with me] would create instant underclasses of illegal aliens not privy to such bonuses.

Secure borders allows controlled immigration at rates which do not create undue burden on towns and cities close to the border. It allows for background checks and assimilation programs. It allows us to avoid economic abuse of illegal aliens. It removes at least some of the drug trade and human trafficking. It allows us to at least begin to seriously discuss a whole slew of programs that Dems love that are incompatible with open borders, as per above.

Instead, all we get from top Dems is 'walls are immoral', which is about the dumbest argument in the world. I suppose we could make some sense of it via anarchist principles like 'property is theft', but that is a position I seriously doubt any of those millionaire Dems hold.

I despise the idea of walls like that in general, because a wall to keep people out can be used to keep people in. But it's absolutely clear we have a crises on the border, and that it is crippling many local economies and deeply hurting many poorer communities via wage depression. I'd prefer we solve the issue by removing many of the social benefits that draw people here, because I think that will also solve many of our own social ills. But until that happens, wall it is.
 
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HenkDV

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This article quotes a low to high range (along D/R partisan lines):

"The Trump administration wants to enforce border security with a combination of a physical wall and natural barriers that would protect the estimated 1,933 miles-long border between the United States and Mexico. Many different cost estimates have been thrown around, from as little as $8 billion to as much as $70 billion, with anywhere from $150 million per year to $750 million per year in maintenance. "
Seems like a lot of uncertainty. Suppose it's hard to get a hard number, especially regarding the cost of actually effectively manning the entire wall.
Interesting side note that 95% of drugs come in through container ships and vessels, but that doesn't really have much to do with illegal immigration.
 
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JordanN

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The wall in Israel is only 245 km long thus making it much easier to monitor than a wall that has to span the over 3,000 km long US-Mexico border.
The Chinese wall situation isn't really that comparable either as it was used to (generally successfully!) fend of hostile armies (big and small) and not really a relatively slow trickle of small groups of imiigrants over a long period of time.

Also fun fact, @DunDunDunpachi, Mongols did actually climb the walls and towers with grappling hooks!
Question: Why is America not allowed to defend itself?

I've been asked all the time on Neogaf about "Why are you so interested in the U.S"? Well, I understand that the U.S plays an important role in not just the world economy, but also as the hub of science and democracy.

You'd think that maybe, just maybe, we should consider this role the U.S has in the world to be a very sensitive one, and thus, we should be doing all we can to prevent its collapse?

Someone mentioned earlier that all this illegal immigration to the U.S is just a "humanitarian crisis". Mexico isn't suppose to stop this because it's for the greater good... right?

But who is to say this wave of people just upping and leaving South America wont stop? Why am I suppose to believe the USA has the capacity to house the entire world and we all expect kumbaya to happen?

I don't think it's fair to watch the USA just collapse under the sheer weight of the entire world just constantly moving inside because they refuse to fix their own countries. That's just not how nations work.

Read about the Roman Empire and learn about why it collapsed. I've been finding some interesting parallels between Roman history and the modern U.S and it kinda of infuriates me we're about to repeat the same mistakes they did despite the warnings being thousands of years old.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Read about the Roman Empire and learn about why it collapsed. I've been finding some interesting parallels between Roman history and the modern U.S.
You mean the Romans had out-of-touch elitists living in megacities whose outlook on the Empire didn't match the vast majority of the citizens out in the frontier/provincial territories just like the USA does?
 

JordanN

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You mean the Romans had out-of-touch elitists living in megacities whose outlook on the Empire didn't match the vast majority of the citizens out in the frontier/provincial territories just like the USA does?
I haven't gotten that far in Roman history to make that comparison yet, but read about the crisis of the third century, and that was when everything went straight to shit.
 

autoduelist

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Move along, nothing to see here....

No, seriously. This costs a fortune. These people will need to be fed, housed, and processed. Many will need healthcare services. Many may end up staying, reliant on more services. Every child needs to be processed to find out if they are with their parents or being trafficked.

This is a humanitarian crisis and ridiculously expensive, and yet we see Democrats objecting to 5 or 10 billion for a wall?
 

Ke0

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Saying walls do not work is like saying the flu shot is worthless because it won't stop every possible flu strain. Ignore the people who say walls don't work. They are either lying or deluded by their own hatred.
But isn't this argument people use about gun reform? It can't stop all shootings so don't bother?
 

ssolitare

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If you can't answer, that's fine.

Cranking up our imports because of some regional flooding sounds like a bad idea when the cost to the environment and to the economy is so detrimental.
You don't have a choice, it's automatic. Supply and demand.