Trumps tweet on Ilhan Omar

cryptoadam

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Thought I would make its own thread because this is the President of the USA tweeting this out.

Clearly this is going to rile up those on the left.

I think its a pretty powerful statement about that something that some people did.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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CAIR wasn't founded after 9/11, either.

Justice Democrats are a cancer that need to be cut out of the party. If they had to stand on their own outside of the Democrat bloc, they'd never have gained power in the first place.

Please take care of your Tea Party movement, Dems. It's spiraling out of control.
 

Arm73

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Nothing wrong with it. I was there, on that day ( and what came after), and you don't forget that shit.
 

autoduelist

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I could see the towers outside my house.

If you had told me it would take less than 20 years for someone in the House of Reps to say what she said I would never have believed you. Dems, get your act together. Daddy still loves you but you're on the wrong path. Come home.
 

Xux

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Criticize Lord Stephen Miller and he'll sick his lead bitch on you! Maybe Miller will let him have two Diet Cokes after this?
 

JORMBO

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Can someone explain this "inciting violence" thing that is going around from Trump's tweet? I don't get it.

 
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DeepEnigma

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Can someone explain this "inciting violence" thing that is going around from Trump's tweet? I don't get it.

More victimhood and protected class BS rhetoric, where just because he's criticizing her, they're going to claim he's inciting violence against Muslims.

Meanwhile all the candidates they loved voting for, have no issues bombing other nations... full of Muslims.
 

autoduelist

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Do these people even understand what incite means?
It means when she calls someone a white nationalist she's on the right side of history, and when someone like Crenshaw quotes her own words they are putting her in danger.

I hope, with all my heart, the people see through this nonsense. The media is supposed to keep this sort of nonsense in check by calling out both sides but they are lost as well.
 

Sub_Level

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You cant say you remember 9/11 in one breath and support Saudi Arabia the next.

Yes I remember 9/11. I also remember it was Saudis who killed our people.
 

cryptoadam

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Wow Dummycrats doubling down on disrespecting 9/11, not going to be a good look. Can't say I am surprised.

The context of her statement is that she called the NZ church shooting a "tragic, tragic, nightmear", but 9/11 as only something some people did. So she knows how to apply the proper gravitas with words, she just chose her words exactly as she wanted her audience to hear.
 

infinitys_7th

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Can someone explain this "inciting violence" thing that is going around from Trump's tweet? I don't get it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_wolf_(terrorism)#Stochastic_terrorism

It's the idea that any sort of criticism of someone in a protected class may cause a nutjob to go on killing spree, so no person should be able to criticize anyone if they happen to be *insert protected class*.

Any comment you see about "muh inciting violence" is based in that delusion. It is a way of associating speech with violence, dissent with terrorism, criticism with threats.
 
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pramod

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Wow. The liberals are totally losing their minds over this. Trump has really hit them hard.

Taking her speech out of context? You mean like how the left took "some are rapists", "good folks on both sides", and "grab their pussy" out of context?

Womp womp. Sorry libs. Not even your leader Pelosi is going to help you on this one.
 

DeafTourette

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Wow. The liberals are totally losing their minds over this. Trump has really hit them hard.

Taking her speech out of context? You mean like how the left took "some are rapists", "good folks on both sides", and "grab their pussy" out of context?

Womp womp. Sorry libs. Not even your leader Pelosi is going to help you on this one.
Not sure how "good folks on both sides" was taken out of context, but ok...
 

matt404au

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Not sure how "good folks on both sides" was taken out of context, but ok...
Because the Unite the Right rally did not start out as a white supremacist event. It was initially garden variety conservatives protesting the removal of a civil war era statue. Then Antifa showed up to protest the specter of the alt right, because they think everyone is the alt right. Then actual neo Nazis showed up to beat up Antifa, because that’s what they do. The whole situation devolved into a shitshow of neo-Nazis fighting neo-commies when it should have just been the dozen or so normal conservatives protesting the erasure of their history, which they have every right to do. There were fine people on both sides until the ideologues showed up, but all you know is the Nazi narrative the media has shoved down your throat.
 

pramod

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And what she said wasn't even an issue of context. It was her choice of words. It's like saying the Bubonic Plague was "some people got sick and died".

And if the excuse is that her English is poor like the left is defending, why didnt she just simply apologize? In fact she idiotically doubled down.
 
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DeafTourette

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Because the Unite the Right rally did not start out as a white supremacist event. It was initially garden variety conservatives protesting the removal of a civil war era statue. Then Antifa showed up to protest the specter of the alt right, because they think everyone is the alt right. Then actual neo Nazis showed up to beat up Antifa, because that’s what they do. The whole situation devolved into a shitshow of neo-Nazis fighting neo-commies when it should have just been the dozen or so normal conservatives protesting the erasure of their history, which they have every right to do. There were fine people on both sides until the ideologues showed up, but all you know is the Nazi narrative the media has shoved down your throat.
I'm going from memory but the folks with tiki torches were chanting "The Jews will not replace us!"

I seem to remember they were there that night before the horrible actions the next day. Were those the normal conservatives? Or the neonazis?

And being a southerner, I will NEVER understand celebrating traitors to the United States (the Confederacy) ...
 

DeafTourette

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And if we're going to talk about "taken out of context" ... Let's look at that part of her speech...

“Far too long we have lived with the discomfort of being a second-class citizen, and frankly, I’m tired of it, and every single Muslim in this country should be tired of it. CAIR was founded after 9/11 because they recognized that some people did something and that all of us were starting to lose access to our civil liberties.”

She was speaking to a group of American Muslims who are still looked at as "a threat" in this country, despite being productive members of society. I remember right after 9/11, Muslims were being attacked and demonized in this country... And the sentiment has not entirely subsided.
 

DeafTourette

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I know mamy of you are tired of "victimhood" and your perception of minorities as being "protected class" and having protections you don't... Yet ... I've seen many on this forum talk about "privileged minorities" as if THEY were the ones being oppressed.

It's ALL perception based on experience or perceived experience.
 

Trojita

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Because the Unite the Right rally did not start out as a white supremacist event. It was initially garden variety conservatives protesting the removal of a civil war era statue. Then Antifa showed up to protest the specter of the alt right, because they think everyone is the alt right. Then actual neo Nazis showed up to beat up Antifa, because that’s what they do. The whole situation devolved into a shitshow of neo-Nazis fighting neo-commies when it should have just been the dozen or so normal conservatives protesting the erasure of their history, which they have every right to do. There were fine people on both sides until the ideologues showed up, but all you know is the Nazi narrative the media has shoved down your throat.
Your summary of events is really inaccurate lol.

I'm going from memory but the folks with tiki torches were chanting "The Jews will not replace us!"

I seem to remember they were there that night before the horrible actions the next day. Were those the normal conservatives? Or the neonazis?

And being a southerner, I will NEVER understand celebrating traitors to the United States (the Confederacy) ...
They were shouting "They will not replace us" IIRC.
 
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DeepEnigma

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CAIR was not founded after 9/11, it was founded almost a decade prior. How much more manipulation of the truth are we going to hear?
 

matt404au

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I'm going from memory but the folks with tiki torches were chanting "The Jews will not replace us!"

I seem to remember they were there that night before the horrible actions the next day. Were those the normal conservatives? Or the neonazis?

And being a southerner, I will NEVER understand celebrating traitors to the United States (the Confederacy) ...
Yes, they were chanting things along those lines, but they arrived after Antifa, who were threatening the initial protestors from a Confederate heritage group and yelling things about white genocide. It was absolutely a both sides issue, but Antifa started it and you only ever hear one side of the story reported.

At the time of the event, I read a blog from an independent Charlottesville-based journalist who was there on the ground, witnessing the whole thing from the very beginning. I wish I had saved the blog post because he included a timeline of events that contradicted much of what was being reported by the likes of CNN, NYT, etc.
 

finowns

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I'm going from memory but the folks with tiki torches were chanting "The Jews will not replace us!"

I seem to remember they were there that night before the horrible actions the next day. Were those the normal conservatives? Or the neonazis?

And being a southerner, I will NEVER understand celebrating traitors to the United States (the Confederacy) ...
They weren't traitors to the southern states they were like brothers and fathers and stuff.
 

pramod

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Can someone explain this "inciting violence" thing that is going around from Trump's tweet? I don't get it.

I guess because she's Muslim. And a woman.

I guess it's only ok to call out white males for making dumbass political gaffes.
 
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Trojita

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Yes, they were chanting things along those lines, but they arrived after Antifa, who were threatening the initial protestors from a Confederate heritage group and yelling things about white genocide. It was absolutely a both sides issue, but Antifa started it and you only ever hear one side of the story reported.

At the time of the event, I read a blog from an independent Charlottesville-based journalist who was there on the ground, witnessing the whole thing from the very beginning. I wish I had saved the blog post because he included a timeline of events that contradicted much of what was being reported by the likes of CNN, NYT, etc.
Maybe because an independent blog based on bullshit isn't the evidence you want to use as a timeline of events. A random person is giving an alternate timeline that is counter from what everyone else is saying. They must be right!

There's videos and pictures of the neo-nazi and white supremacist groups and marching before Antifa was there the night before. You think they just magically appeared when counter protestors were there?
 
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cryptoadam

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The irony of someone complaining about losing their civil liberties, but has a 200 or something year old rule about head wear in congress changed.

I hardly doubt when she talks about CAIR and civil liberties she is talking about the Patriot Act LOL.

Kinda hard to take serious when 60% of all religious hate crimes are against Jews, or as she says the Benjamins LOL.
 

Solomeena

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I know mamy of you are tired of "victimhood" and your perception of minorities as being "protected class" and having protections you don't... Yet ... I've seen many on this forum talk about "privileged minorities" as if THEY were the ones being oppressed.

It's ALL perception based on experience or perceived experience.
The only people that complain about being oppressed are people like you and your cohorts. We complain because men and white men at that are being ridiculed at every turn for no reason other than because you can be racist and sexist without repercussion these days., Two wrongs don't make it right, @DeafTourette .
 

DeafTourette

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The only people that complain about being oppressed are people like you and your cohorts. We complain because men and white men at that are being ridiculed at every turn for no reason other than because you can be racist and sexist without repercussion these days., Two wrongs don't make it right, @DeafTourette .
You keep saying I'm racist ... Yet nothing I've EVER said has been anywhere NEAR racist.

And I don't think you understood my post.
 
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I'm going from memory but the folks with tiki torches were chanting "The Jews will not replace us!"

I seem to remember they were there that night before the horrible actions the next day. Were those the normal conservatives? Or the neonazis?

And being a southerner, I will NEVER understand celebrating traitors to the United States (the Confederacy) ...
Every day there is some post over on REE advocating political violence, up to and including murder. I don't just assume that every poster on that board is some psychopath popping boners over their fantasy of being lefty Gestapos. Some little shits were in that crowd, shouting those things, but any massive group of people will have at least a few had apples.

On the Confederacy thing, I can agree that statues of political leaders of the CSA should be placed in a museum where they belong. Don't erase the history of what they stood for, America needs to see it, and know why it was wrong. The monuments commemorating the Confederate veterans, however, is a different thing. At the end of the day, they were American soldiers who fell to our bloodiest war, and they should be recognized as such.
 

pramod

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Trump is totally winning the internets, and the left can't stand it.

Who would have thought a 72 yr old white dude can meme better than most 20 something millenials.
 
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Trojita

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Alright, let's look at her words fully in-context, then:




:messenger_hushed:
She's apparently ignorent. What she is arguing is from a point of view where she is fluent in another language where groups take a common term in that language and adopt it as a proper noun. Once an entity adopts a word as a proper noun, speakers of other languages that don't know the origin of the word will just be addressing an entity with the name. The words original meaning is not in their vocabulary, but the entity adopting that noun is. The same shit is possible in every language. There's emphasis because they are terror groups that murder people because of their extremist views.

It doesn't take two brain cells to realize that emphasis on nouns happens within the Arabic world too. America comes from the name Amerigo which comes for the word "work ruler; home rule". She doesn't realize that flag burners in the Arabic world that are shouting death to the country are also putting emphasis on the countries name with venom on their tongue?
 
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RokkanStoned

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Regarding the Ilhan Omar "some people", I'd say it was definitely a conscious choice. "Some people" instead of "muslim extremists" or "radical islamists" and the ease of which she said it, without hiccups. Why she chose so, however, I have no idea. Could be for good reasons, could be for bad reasons (after watching the original in context a couple of times, I lean slightly towards the bad). Still very clumsy and not a way to look good. She's right about civil liberties being a concern after 9/11 though, both in regards to muslims which she speaks about, but also people in general.

Don't see the point in harping about it, but it's certainly not inciting violence to use that clip in conjunction with 9/11. Just manufactured drama, trying to deflect and score political points.

Ilhan Omar seems to try to be as defensive and deflective as possible, further exampled by the video Evilore posted, from about 12:13 in it. I also think people are ridiculous in trying to brand Ilhan Omar as "evil", because there's no proof of that and from listening to her speeches I'd say there's nothing indicating that at all.
 
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Cybrwzrd

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_wolf_(terrorism)#Stochastic_terrorism

It's the idea that any sort of criticism of someone in a protected class may cause a nutjob to go on killing spree, so no person should be able to criticize anyone if they happen to be *insert protected class*.

Any comment you see about "muh inciting violence" is based in that delusion. It is a way of associating speech with violence, dissent with terrorism, criticism with threats.
I’d say it is much more likely that not being able to criticize “protected” groups incites violence, but that may be too far out there as an idea. If you corner an animal, it is more likely to attack. Telling those borderline people that they aren’t allowed to express their opinions just corners them.
 
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matt404au

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Maybe because an independent blog based on bullshit isn't the evidence you want to use as a timeline of events. A random person is giving an alternate timeline that is counter from what everyone else is saying. They must be right!

There's videos and pictures of the neo-nazi and white supremacist groups and marching before Antifa was there the night before. You think they just magically appeared when counter protestors were there?
The back and forth on the statue had been going on for months in the lead up to the main events. The mayor had even been encouraging counter-protestors to get involved via twitter. There were Nazis gathering the night before, you’re correct, but they weren’t the only right wingers involved. There were other right wing groups involved in the protest, but whether they had any knowledge of the extremist elements gathering separately is unclear. Antifa was also gathering the night before but they get a complete pass from the media.

Trump was factually correct — the only kind of correct — when he said that it was a mix of good and bad people from both sides, but it was only the bad people from the right that got any coverage. CNN was even publishing articles in the months following trying to normalise Antifa, explicitly justifying their methods as “peace through violence” (http://archive.is/s5zfF). It's clown world bullshit like this that makes skeptics like myself completely turn off and question any and all reports from such outlets. Get caught lying to me once and I’m off you for good and will question everything else you have ever told me then look for alternative sources, including independents (Tim Pool is effectively a "blogger", btw, even though his blog is in video format). This wisdom is quite literally contained in a children’s story, yet fully grown adult “professionals” can’t seem to understand it.

Charlottesville was an absolute clusterfuck of multiple groups of different political leanings, including extremist elements on both sides, all trying to "win" at the other's expense. That much should be clear to anyone who was paying attention. Heather Heyer's death does not absolve Antifa of their contributory actions in the lead up, nor does Antifa's role absolve James Fields Jr of his actions. It was a both sides issue. However, the one-sided media coverage and complete unwillingness to discuss Antifa's role should be raising red flags to anyone who genuinely wants to know the truth, not just whatever partisan narrative conforms to your world view.
 
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EviLore

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Hmm. Omar advocated leniency for men convicted of planning to join ISIS, some of whom attempted to purchase passports for travel to Syria, describing their acts as a "consequential mistake" and suggesting that punitive sentences would "create an environment where extremism can flourish." She asserted that we should be telling these men "I want you to be part of my community," and that "the most effective penance is making these men ambassadors of reform."

She also described them as "predisposed victims."


https://www.fox9.com/news/minnesota-isis-sentencing-ilhan-omar-letter
MINNEAPOLIS (KMSP) - The 9 Minnesota men charged with planning to join ISIS are scheduled to be sentenced next week. Ahead of those court dates, 13 letters were sent to Judge Michael Davis in the case of defendant Abdirahman Yasin Daud, including a letter from state Rep. Ilhan Omar, who on Election Night became with first elected Somali-American lawmaker in the nation.

Rep. Omar asked Judge Davis for “compassion” and a “restorative approach to justice,” concluding that “this ruling can set a precedent and has the potential to be a landmark case in addressing extremism.”
Daud was one of two young men from the Twin Cities arrested in San Diego in April 2015 in an alleged plot to buy fake passports for travel to Syria. Federal prosecutors requested 30 years in prison for Daud, with a lifetime of supervised release.
Ilhan Omar’s letter to Judge Davis, dated Nov. 8

Honorable Judge Davis,

As you undoubtedly deliberate with great caution the sentencing of nine recently convicted Somali-American men, I bring to your attention the ramifications of sentencing young men who made a consequential mistake to decades in federal prison. Incarcerating 20-year-old men for 30 or 40 years is essentially a life sentence. Society will have no expectations of the to be 50 or 60-year-old released prisoners; it will view them with distrust and revulsion. Such punitive measures not only lack efficacy, they inevitably create an environment in which extremism can flourish, aligning with the presupposition of terrorist recruitment: “Americans do not accept you and continue to trivialize your value. Instead of being a nobody, be a martyr.”

The best deterrent to fanaticism is a system of compassion. We must alter our attitude and approach; if we truly want to affect change, we should refocus our efforts on inclusion and rehabilitation. A long-term prison sentence for one who chose violence to combat direct marginalization is a statement that our justice system misunderstands the guilty. A restorative approach to justice assesses the lure of criminality and addresses it.

The desire to commit violence is not inherent to people -- it is the consequences of systematic alienation; people seek violent solutions when the process established for enacting change is inaccessible to them. Fueled by disaffection turned to malice, if the guilty were willing to kill and be killed fighting perceived injustice, imagine the consequence of them hearing, “I believe you can be rehabilitated. I want you to become part of my community, and together we will thrive.” We use this form of distributive justice for patients with chemical dependencies; treatment and societal reintegration. The most effective penance is making these men ambassadors of reform.

The restorative approach provides a long-term solution – though the self-declared Islamic State may soon suffer defeat, their radical approach to change-making will continue as it has throughout history – by criminalizing the undergirding construct rather than its predisposed victims. Therein, this ruling can set a precedent and has the potential to be a landmark case in addressing extremism.

Thank you for your careful attention,

Ilhan Omar
State Representative-Elect – MN 60B
 
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mid83

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I think it’s asinine that any criticism of Omar is met with cries of racism, Islamaphobia while the left is allowed to say all sorts of vile shit about Trump.

On top of that, this whole thing about the criticism over Omar’s comments about 9/11 being an incitement of violence is just as ridiculous. People have explained why they found her comment offensive, which is well within their right. Nothing that’s been said about her comments in any way is a call to violence.

All of that said, I find it interesting that few people on the left are debating this issue in regards to why they agree with she said. Instead they are immediately turning to name calling (racist, islamaphobe). That is usually a good sign you have already lost the debate.
 
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