Tucker Carlson says poor immigrants makes us dirtier and poorer, is he wrong?

pramod

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Oct 24, 2017
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Has anyone been to Pico in downtown Los Angeles lately? Or the slums in Paris?

What kind of people do you think live there?

So now speaking the truth is no longer allowed in our society?
 

Madonis

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Oct 21, 2018
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There are truths about the subject you yourself won't accept, so that phrase is pointless.

Further, the term "dirtier" is not a good look. In fact, it is a very bad one.
 
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desertdroog

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Illegal immigration creates a de facto second class, so, ...*edited* No?
 
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Barsinister

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An illegal immigrant fell in a mud puddle right in front of me. The splash was such, that my shoes were sullied. I, being a generous sort, reached down and offered my hand to him, forgetting that my kid gloves , festooned with ribbons, were adorned. As I was leaning over, my pocketbook fell out of my waistcoat. It turns out the puddle was deeper than it looked and the wallet was consumed in the mire.

To answer the question posed, yes.
 

Dude Abides

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Anyone who didn’t go to St. George’s School probably doesn’t deserve to live, TBH.
 
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Cunth

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People should look on the positive side like Democrats do, cheap labor for your business. Just don’t live in the same suburbs as them and you are golden
 

ssolitare

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WHY CANT THE TRUTH BE SPOKEN???

***NEVER ACCEPTS THE TRUTH***

You have the illlegal immigrant hate itis, and one side effect is severe confirmation bias.
 
D

Deleted member 1235

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You think removing the bottom of a society entirely would simply make the bottom disappear and there would be no new bottom? How stupid are you?
 

matt404au

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If BLM had any idea what they were talking about, they would be protesting illegal immigration before the nebulous notion of "white privilege". The way to break the poverty cycle is through gainful employment. If the entry level end of the job market is saturated with underpaid, overworked illegals, how could citizens expect to even get a look in?
 

ssolitare

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If BLM had any idea what they were talking about, they would be protesting illegal immigration before the nebulous notion of "white privilege". The way to break the poverty cycle is through gainful employment. If the entry level end of the job market is saturated with underpaid, overworked illegals, how could citizens expect to even get a look in?
It's only Tuesday bruh (or wed in AUS?), put the whiskey down.
 
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Arkage

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So now speaking the truth is no longer allowed in our society?
Tucker can speak his truth in any public space he wants. I suggest he get a sign and start picketing sidewalks if he discovers that people no longer want to pay him money to amplify the race baiting garbage constantly flowing out of his face hole.

If BLM had any idea what they were talking about, they would be protesting illegal immigration before the nebulous notion of "white privilege". The way to break the poverty cycle is through gainful employment. If the entry level end of the job market is saturated with underpaid, overworked illegals, how could citizens expect to even get a look in?
The threat of a collapsing business model is what drives illegal hiring, not the CEO trying to pinch a few more pennies by risking government raids. You think farm owners and such will suddenly have a come-to-Jesus moment and hire black people at a living wage if there were no more illegals? Or do the owners just fold up shop and sell off the company or land? Or push even harder into automation? And even if they do have this Jesus moment, we can all look forward to base food prices rising, as well as most service industry jobs, so we can all readjust our inflation levels, making the legal minimum wage even more out of balance with the cost of living. Which means it will need to be raised. Which means prices will rise again. Etc.

It's doubly strange to think the illegal job market for Hispanics somehow directly overlaps the legal job market for black populations. Most jobs that I know of that use illegal workers (my dad has worked at quite a number of them) are nearly always desperate for workers, legal or illegal. Their wages are low but legal for the amount of physical demand the jobs require, along with the jobs typically being dirty, bloody and generally dangerous especially in manufacturing or processing. And speaking to the black population in particular, the manufacturing jobs that used to be urban centered have mostly gone out into the suburbs due to tax breaks and white flight. 53% of illegals work on farms, which most of the unemployed black population have little realistic access to. And even if these job markets did overlap Americans in general don't want a job making $13~ hr fruit picking or in a dirt covered foundry breathing in dust.

And in any case this seems like a non sequitur since the black unemployment rate is historically low right now due to the many years recovery since the recession, with a gain of over 10%. This is despite there being no meaningful change in illegal job numbers during that same time period.
 
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AfricanKing

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Such a tragic and unfortunate title and opening OP it pretty much removed all agency of having an actual discussion about immigration to pander to border line racist rthoric .
 
D

Deleted member 77995

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Illegal immigrants don't get to partake in welfare, most tax benefits, etc but they provide back to the economy many times over what they ever take away. The 1% loves illegal immigration and never want it to go away. Exploiting people from another country through hard manual labor while paying them a pittance for neoliberal gains is about as American as it gets.

Some poor lad leaves his country of birth, journeys hundreds of miles while not speaking the language of the land, works under a system he knows he is being inhumanely exploited for 12 hours a day doing hard labor while facing ongoing fear and anxiety of deportation at all times and does all of this knowing the resentment and ire that is thrown his way.

And the solution that is proposed to stop this is not to hold the 1%ers accountable or make an example out of them but to build a wall. Illegal immigrants aren't the dirty ones here.
 

ssolitare

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BLM targets police behavior, and that has nothing to do with illegal immigrants or even jobs.

The entry level job is not saturated, we are in a labor surplus. Citizens obviously massively outnumber illegals in every job field that they are in, and there are still labor shortages. Additionally any given job occupied by an illegal is not available everywhere geographically. I could go on forever here.

I don't know what you were thinking, but you are combining things with no relation to one another.
 
Dec 3, 2018
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We live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? Trump has a greater responsibility than you can possibly imagine. You weep for Carl Tuckerson and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Carl Tuckerson's comments, while tragic, probably saved lives. And his existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, probably saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want Trump's wall, you need Trump's wall. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that Trump provides, then questions the manner in which he provides it. I would rather you just said thank you, and were on your way.
 

Composer

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I was an undocumented immigrant and I probably make more money than you, have a better degree than you and volunteer more than you.

You're the dirt, not me.
 

matt404au

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BLM targets police behavior, and that has nothing to do with illegal immigrants or even jobs.

The entry level job is not saturated, we are in a labor surplus. Citizens obviously massively outnumber illegals in every job field that they are in, and there are still labor shortages. Additionally any given job occupied by an illegal is not available everywhere geographically. I could go on forever here.

I don't know what you were thinking, but you are combining things with no relation to one another.
As far as I have observed, BLM initially started out as an anti-police brutality movement but over time morphed into a general purpose black activism group. That is why I refer to them. If it helps you understand my argument better, just replace BLM with black activists.

A labour surplus due to the presence of illegals would only support my argument because it would drive down the minimum wage. In the very next sentence, you said there are labour shortages. Which is it? Surplus or shortage?

Geographical location shouldn't matter as you are free to migrate within your own borders. People will move where they need to if the welfare gravy train is taken away and there are jobs available interstate.
 

Blood Borne

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You can’t have illegal immigration and a welfare system.

The elites, 1% and big corporations love illegal immigration. They get their cheap maids and cheap labour. It’s amazing how the left has abandon its core values. Their values now align with that of the 1% and big corporations.
 

Blood Borne

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Oct 30, 2017
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We live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? Trump has a greater responsibility than you can possibly imagine. You weep for Carl Tuckerson and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Carl Tuckerson's comments, while tragic, probably saved lives. And his existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, probably saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want Trump's wall, you need Trump's wall. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that Trump provides, then questions the manner in which he provides it. I would rather you just said thank you, and were on your way.
Hahaha. Leftists can’t handle the truth.
 
D

Deleted member 77995

Unconfirmed Member
We live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? Trump has a greater responsibility than you can possibly imagine. You weep for Carl Tuckerson and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Carl Tuckerson's comments, while tragic, probably saved lives. And his existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, probably saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want Trump's wall, you need Trump's wall. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that Trump provides, then questions the manner in which he provides it. I would rather you just said thank you, and were on your way.
 

matt404au

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Tucker can speak his truth in any public space he wants. I suggest he get a sign and start picketing sidewalks if he discovers that people no longer want to pay him money to amplify the race baiting garbage constantly flowing out of his face hole.



The threat of a collapsing business model is what drives illegal hiring, not the CEO trying to pinch a few more pennies by risking government raids. You think farm owners and such will suddenly have a come-to-Jesus moment and hire black people at a living wage if there were no more illegals? Or do the owners just fold up shop and sell off the company or land? Or push even harder into automation? And even if they do have this Jesus moment, we can all look forward to base food prices rising, as well as most service industry jobs, so we can all readjust our inflation levels, making the legal minimum wage even more out of balance with the cost of living. Which means it will need to be raised. Which means prices will rise again. Etc.

It's doubly strange to think the illegal job market for Hispanics somehow directly overlaps the legal job market for black populations. Most jobs that I know of that use illegal workers (my dad has worked at quite a number of them) are nearly always desperate for workers, legal or illegal. Their wages are low but legal for the amount of physical demand the jobs require, along with the jobs typically being dirty, bloody and generally dangerous especially in manufacturing or processing. And speaking to the black population in particular, the manufacturing jobs that used to be urban centered have mostly gone out into the suburbs due to tax breaks and white flight. 53% of illegals work on farms, which most of the unemployed black population have little realistic access to. And even if these job markets did overlap Americans in general don't want a job making $13~ hr fruit picking or in a dirt covered foundry breathing in dust.

And in any case this seems like a non sequitur since the black unemployment rate is historically low right now due to the many years recovery since the recession, with a gain of over 10%. This is despite there being no meaningful change in illegal job numbers during that same time period.
My criticism is not aimed at the businesses hiring illegals as they must do so in order to stay afloat in a competitive market where other businesses are hiring illegals. Rather, my criticism is aimed at the illegals who have no right to be in the country. Their presence drives down wages at the entry level end of the job market, effectively blocking any disadvantaged groups of citizens from entering the job market and forcing them onto welfare. If you are working your way out of poverty, you start at the bottom, not the top. As I said to @ssolitare, if the welfare gravy train is taken away and jobs are available interstate, people will move as their livelihoods depend on it. Gainful employment is the panacea to the cultural and economic problems of black Americans and all this identity politics nonsense is a distraction from those harsh realities. The historically low black unemployment rate is a great start, but it's not going to fix the problems overnight. It's an inter-generational issue that highlights why culture is critical to group-level success.
 

ssolitare

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As far as I have observed, BLM initially started out as an anti-police brutality movement but over time morphed into a general purpose black activism group. That is why I refer to them. If it helps you understand my argument better, just replace BLM with black activists.
Their agenda doesn't overlap with illegals, they do not provide any sort of rooted cause.

A labour surplus due to the presence of illegals would only support my argument because it would drive down the minimum wage. In the very next sentence, you said there are labour shortages. Which is it? Surplus or shortage?
We have excess of particular low skill jobs available, and companies can't fill the jobs because people don't want them. We can revisit this during a deep recession, but for now it's moot. Wages going up in many of these particular jobs hasn't mattered that much because people want different types of jobs. Retail is another story, it's low skill but very popular.

Geographical location shouldn't matter as you are free to migrate within your own borders. People will move where they need to if the welfare gravy train is taken away and there are jobs available interstate.
It matters a whole lot. Perhaps people are spoiled, but it's a big deal unless they're set to make very good money, or they are desperate in a bad economy.
 
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matt404au

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Their agenda doesn't overlap with illegals, they do not provide any sort of rooted cause.



We have excess of particular low skill jobs available, and companies can't fill the jobs because people don't want them. We can revisit this during a deep recession, but for now it's moot. Wages going up in many of these particular jobs hasn't mattered that much because people want different types of jobs. Retail is another story, it's low skill but very popular.



It matters a whole lot.
What on earth? I'm not suggesting that there is some kind of intersectionality witchcraft going on between BLM and illegals. I'm saying that the problems that black activists complain about are primarily cultural and economic, and that the solution to these problems is gainful employment, which illegals negatively affect.

If there are low skill jobs available and people don't want them, that indicates that either they don't need the jobs (likely because there are insufficient incentives to shift them from welfare to gainful employment) or there are cultural problems preventing them from wanting to work.

If you cannot provide for your family in your current geographical location and there are jobs elsewhere within your own borders, you move. Simple as that.
 

ssolitare

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What on earth? I'm not suggesting that there is some kind of intersectionality witchcraft going on between BLM and illegals. I'm saying that the problems that black activists complain about are primarily cultural and economic, and that the solution to these problems is gainful employment, which illegals negatively affect.
illegals don't affect them to any degree that matters, and even if they did they would not advocate for that because there are bigger fish to fry.

If there are low skill jobs available and people don't want them, that indicates that either they don't need the jobs (likely because there are insufficient incentives to shift them from welfare to gainful employment) or there are cultural problems preventing them from wanting to work.
It's more complicated than that. Look at trucking. There's good incentives, but the lifestyle isn't ideal for the lifestyle of two working parents with kids. it's not like it'll relieve one of them from having to work, so they can and should get some other job.

Look at farming, it has all sorts of issues like being seasonal, even if it pays okay during that season. They don't have unlimited room to go up in wages like trucking, which still has big hiring issues. Cue technology to solve our problems.

Look at distribution centers. Well okay people are a bit spoiled there, and some do pay (most don't) but there are just more sexy options out there.

If you cannot provide for your family in your current geographical location and there are jobs elsewhere within your own borders, you move. Simple as that.
Reality is more tricky. In short, a lot of people do move, but switching geographies needs to be worth it, and it may not be.

Also I think you're highly overrating welfare in the U.S. much of it requires you to work to be eligible to receive it. The ones that don't are very strict and temporary anyway.
 
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matt404au

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illegals don't affect them to any degree that matters, and even if they did they would not advocate for that because there are bigger fish to fry.



It's more complicated than that. Look at trucking. There's good incentives, but the lifestyle isn't ideal for the lifestyle of two working parents with kids. it's not like it'll relieve one of them from having to work, so they can and should get some other job.

Look at farming, it has all sorts of issues like being seasonal, even if it pays okay during that season. They don't have unlimited room to go up in wages like trucking, which still has big hiring issues. Cue technology to solve our problems.

Look at distribution centers. Well okay people are a bit spoiled there, and some do pay (most don't) but there are just more sexy options out there.



Reality is more tricky. In short, a lot of people do move, but switching geographies needs to be worth it, and it may not be.
Because of the welfare gravy train. If they don't have to move or work an undesirable job, they won't. The welfare system and illegal immigration are heavily intertwined issues.

The road to financial success for the individual is extending yourself beyond your comfort zone, working hard, and being financially literate. It's really as simple as that. If someone is unwilling to relocate for a better job or spend time away from their family, tough titties, they don't get to complain that they're financially worse off than people who are. The group-level successes that activists always point to as signs of inequality are built from the bottom up by the cumulative success of individuals, but individuals with the drive to succeed are a function of the group-level culture.
 

ssolitare

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Because of the welfare gravy train. If they don't have to move or work an undesirable job, they won't. The welfare system and illegal immigration are heavily intertwined issues.
Most of our welfare is temporary/expires, and/or requires you to pay into it with payroll taxes (so you have to work a job, get a 1099, w2, etc). And if you do have it, you'll be below the poverty level. Think of it as a supplement to what you earn, because you usually can't live off of it.

The road to financial success for the individual is extending yourself beyond your comfort zone, working hard, and being financially literate. It's really as simple as that. If someone is unwilling to relocate for a better job or spend time away from their family, tough titties, they don't get to complain that they're financially worse off than people who are.
I don't think anyone who passes up opportunities complains, they look for better opportunities, or they add a side hustle to their job (s). The hustle is strong in America. A lot of times the job is inferior to the hustle.
 
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Ke0

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I find it weird and kinda racist that in America illegal immigration is only ever equated with Hispanic Americans and never Eastern Europeans
 

matt404au

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I find it weird and kinda racist that in America illegal immigration is only ever equated with Hispanic Americans and never Eastern Europeans
Is it not just a matter of proportion? I would personally have an issue with any illegal immigrant irrespective of race.
 

ssolitare

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I find it weird and kinda racist that in America illegal immigration is only ever equated with Hispanic Americans and never Eastern Europeans
Indeed it is attributed, and your right that it's way more than illegal immigrants coming from a specific border.

When mentioning low skill/education a certain demographic is being targeted.
 

Dunki

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they can destroy the wages if there are many of them because they will work for far less than a "normal" person in their country. As for Migration itself. In Germany 2/3 of refugee since 2015 now are on social welfare. So mass mirgtation in itself can be a huge burden to the whole system, be it economical, housing, education etc.
 
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i_am_ben

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Depends on the type of immigrant. If they're a refugee (for example South Sudan or the Rohingya from Burma) then they may use a lot of social services and not pay a lot of tax. But of course, refugees are given refuge for humanitarian reasons not economic.
 

Discusguy

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The problem isn’t that illegal immigrants are a drain to society but more the case of they are not assimilating because they don’t need to survive. In turn making parts of the country into the very same places they fled from.

Just a perspective from an immigrant that assimilated and is doing quite well.
 
May 22, 2018
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I swear to god he has the most ridiculous resting dumb face of anyone in the history of mankind. Its not even a face he MAKES. Its just his normal face. He has a constant look of just being completely lost at all times.
 
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matt404au

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I swear to god he has the most ridiculous resting dumb face of anyone in the history of mankind. Its not even a face he MAKES. Its just his normal face. He has a constant look of just being completely lost at all times.
Is there a conservative whose mere existence doesn’t cause you to have an emotional meltdown?
 

desertdroog

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Let's be real, illegal immigrants litter a lot.
There is a government website dedicated to this fact for my state:

www.azbordertrash.gov
The collection and disposal of waste in remote areas along Arizona's 370-mile border with Mexico poses difficult challenges. An estimated more than 2,000 tons of trash is discarded annually in Arizona's borderlands. A variety of federal and state government entities, Native American tribes and private landowners are affected by the problem, and addressing it requires extensive coordination.

The environmental impact caused by illegal immigration, and the trash left behind, is increasingly being found in areas that are more fragile and remote.

Successful cleanups of border trash sites have been taking place by government and private landowners, as well as volunteer groups. Before the creation of this tool, there was no consistent method for conducting cleanups or for collecting data. The State of Arizona through the Arizona Department of Environmental Quality (ADEQ) has been working with partners to develop this Web site to provide a centralized location where stakeholders conducting border trash cleanups can find assessment and cleanup resources, and where data from cleanups can be tracked consistently. This will provide for more cost-effective, sustainable and efficient cleanups.

Funding for elements of this Web site has been provided by the State of Arizona, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) Border 2012 Program, administered by the Border Environment Cooperation Commission (BECC), and the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM) Arizona State Office.

Input has been received through various stakeholder groups familiar with and active in the issues surrounding accumulated trash sites in the Arizona border region. This includes the Borderlands Management Task Force (BMTF), overseen by the U.S. BLM. The BMTF consists of over 15 member agencies and tribes, who discuss border issues including options for mitigating environmental damage caused by illegal immigration in Arizona. The support of these partners is appreciated.
 
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Cucked SoyBoy

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The entry level job is not saturated, we are in a labor surplus. Citizens obviously massively outnumber illegals in every job field that they are in, and there are still labor shortages.

We are in a labor surplus because of *drum roll*...excessive immigration! Legal and illegal. In other words too many people chasing too few jobs.

There is no such thing as a "labor shortage," that is Chamber of Commerce buzzword talk. If a business can't get workers for the job, then they just need to raise the wage they are paying.

If there are tons of workers competing for a few jobs, then employers have no reason to give you a raise or treat you decently. If you are unhappy and want to leave, they don't care, because there are 9 or 10 other guys just waiting to get your job.

Now imagine if there are more jobs than workers. Employers will be more desperate to keep good people and that's when they offer a raise or better health care plan. And if you aren't treated well you can walk out and get another job soon. Immigration hurts everyone, and it's not just jobs picking lettuce. Excessive use of H1B visas keeps the wages low in tech jobs, and there are many other corporate scams as well.
 

Bolivar687

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And speaking to the black population in particular, the manufacturing jobs that used to be urban centered have mostly gone out into the suburbs due to tax breaks and white flight. 53% of illegals work on farms, which most of the unemployed black population have little realistic access to.


Pew found that only 4% of unauthorized immigrants work in farming, fishing or forestry.
 

TrainedRage

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Logically he may be correct. Illegal immigrants in general are below the poverty line and thus can't afford every amenity that other classes can afford.

Let's not disparage people who are the literal bottom of the economic totem pole. It's a bad look. And shows a lack of empathy.
 
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