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TurboGrafx-16 / PC Engine Mini Lineup Trailer (50 games - 24 TurboGrafx-16 + 26 PC Engine)

Trimesh

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I think I would get this just for Blazing Lazers, Soldier Blade, Super Star Solider, and Salamander. I don't think I played the other shooters in the list, but I'm sure they are awesome and thus a huge bonus for me too. Why the hell did this console manage to get so many shooters but the SNES hardly any? I know the SNES had a shit CPU (which I assume is the main reason it didn't get many), but it had to be at least marginally better than the cpu in the TG16/PC Engine.

It depends on the code you were running - both CPUs are designed around the same basic 6502 architecture and are connected to an 8 bit bus. The 65816 in the SNES has 16 bit registers and a 16 bit ALU - but 16 bit memory operations were slow because they had to be handled in two memory cycles. The result of this was that in most code 16 bit mode was used only when it was necessary, and the CPU ran in 8 bit mode whenever possible. The PC Engine CPU only had the 8 bit mode - but it was also clocked much higher (about twice as fast as the SNES in "fast ROM" mode) - so when running code that was dealing entirely with 8 bit data it was much faster. Conversely the SNES CPU was much faster for code that was doing lots of 16 bit operations and performing limited or no external memory access.

The other difference is that the PC Engine CPU - although basically a 6502 - was heavily customized. It had an on-chip memory mapper to get around the 64K addressing limitation and some extra instructions - some of these were just instruction set extensions (like bit manipulation and testing) and others were more specific - for example, there were special instructions that wrote literal values to the VDP registers so you didn't have to load the value into A and then write it out to a 16 bit direct mode address (which would be much slower). It also had memory transfer instructions - including one (TIA) that that appears to have been designed specifically to copy blocks of data from system RAM or ROM to the VDP with a single instruction.

There are also some large architectural differences in the video hardware - the SNES has up to 4 background layers (although most games used less due to the color depth limitations in the 4 BG mode) - the PCE has a single BG layer, but more palettes. There is also lots of scope for cheating on the PCE because you can write VRAM during active display time (this obviously burns a lot of CPU time).

One standout feature of the SNES is the ability to apply a matrix transform to the entire screen (in mode 7 only) - there is no equivalent feature on the PCE, and it would be far to computationally expensive to fake it.
 

Durask

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I agree, it's a bit of a bummer. As for duplicate titles, I agree. Luckily there aren't many duplicates on there though. And as for the included titles, I have no idea how they weighed certain games amongst others. They did include some of the games though:


My only complaints would be: lack of Namco games, Magical Chase, and Legendary Axe.

But overall, I'm still happy with the included titles. 😉

I'd like to see

Spriggan
Spriggan Mark 2
Valis games
Shubibinman 3
Flash Hiders
 
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Bar81

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Pretty nice line up.

For the moment, my top 5 mini is:
1 - Megadrive asia
2 - Megadrive Jap
3 - Nec mini
4 - Snes Mini and Genesis Mini (both have good but very flawed line up. Trashs at Sega, unbalanced, limited portfolio at Nintendo)

I agree completely with 1 and 2 - Musha Aleste alone makes those superior to the Genesis Mini lineup - the selection is almost bulletproof outside of switching out a couple of games - it would have been nice to have one of Splatterhouse 2 or 3 (instead of one of the filler) and Aladdin (instead of World of Illusion - Castle of Illusion is vastly superior and already included). It would have been beyond epic if one or two of the following would also have been added - Twinkle Tale/Eliminate Down/Gleylancer/Battle Mania 2/Undeadline, but that was never realistic and like I said, we got the best shmup on the system, Musha Aleste, and an otherwise almost perfect collection (given the limit to 42 games) on the Asia MD mini in particular.

I'm not sure that the PCE Mini is above the SNES Mini and Genesis Mini as all three have massive gaps in their game collections that reflect poor planning/not understanding the key titles of the system. The only thing that might put the PCE Mini slightly above is that a lot of the titles haven't ever seen release in the US given the TG16's pathetic library (although the big one - Drac X - is on the PS4 in castlevania requiem collection so I'm not sure why everyone is acting like US gamers haven't ever had a chance to play it) and no real way to purchase the US or JP PCE Mini games otherwise for a normal price. But including Snatcher in JP form only leaves a real salty taste in the mouth and not including key titles like Legendary Axe, Spriggan and so on is inexcusable. Plus the whole one package with overlapping titles is just SUPER lazy. I'm probably amongst the PCE's top 10 fans but this is no bueno.

At least we got the Asian MD Mini - the only mini that got it close enough to right imo that I purchased it.
 
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Fat Frog

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You're right. I gave it the 3rd position but it's not better. I just love bomberman, Snatcher, Schmups, short game sessions and huge libraries. My problem with Snes Mini was the large % of RPGs, platformers (for only 20 games). With the Genesis mini, it was Sonic Spinball, Altered Beast and Street Fighter 2' with a 3 buttons controller. WTF?

But you're right, the lack of Final Match Tennis aka the best sport game of that era is mind blowing...

Those 3 consoles are more or less equal (e
xcept the Asian megadrive mini), it just depends of your tastes.
I chose the PC Engine but it's not better :)
 
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EightBit Man

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There may be issues regarding the artwork of the games:

And some changes have been made to Snatcher as well:

(NEC changed to HEC and ASCII changed to OSCII)
 
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There may be issues regarding the artwork of the games:

And some changes have been made to Snatcher as well:

(NEC changed to HEC and ASCII changed to OSCII)

The inconsistancy is surreal.

I understand the NEC ASCII one but surely they could draw up alternative artwork to resemble the games? Or just do what the Wii did and just have the Title Screen on them. My OCD is going to go crazy.

Would it be possible to use the Hu Card/CD artwork instead?
 
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EightBit Man

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I understand the NEC ASCII one but surely they could draw up alternative artwork to resemble the games? Or just do what the Wii did and just have the Title Screen on them. My OCD is going to go crazy.

Would it be possible to use the Hu Card/CD artwork instead?

I agree; don't like the inconsistencies either. I'm a fan of boxart, not title screens! SEGA did create artwork for the SEGA Channel-exclusive Game no Kanzume Otokuyou.



Yeah, it's a shame they didn't put a bit more effort into things like this.
 
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Fat Frog

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There may be issues regarding the artwork of the games:

And some changes have been made to Snatcher as well:

(NEC changed to HEC and ASCII changed to OSCII)
I never noticed it was a Masamune Shirow cover ! It also reminds me a mix of Shurato and Samourai troopers series.
 
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I agree; don't like the inconsistencies either. I'm a fan of boxart, not title screens! SEGA did create artwork for the SEGA Channel-exclusive Game no Kanzume Otokuyou.



Yeah, it's a shame they didn't put a bit more effort into things like this.

Sorry if I sound very passionate in this thread! Not aimed at anyone if I sound aggressive! :LOL:

SEGA have done a stellar job with the mini even though they themselves have missed out on some gems but their presentation is the best of the lot so far although the SNES Mini is pretty close.

I honestly think Konami should have delayed these announcements and looked at the poll first.

I would happily wait til Next august if it meant they took more care into this and did what SEGA has done with region switching and perhaps tried to rush into the 50 games line up too soon as a e-peen thing.

Sapphire is brilliant and so is Snatcher if it can be played in English but they have shown to rush this to get onto the Mini Craze and I do see this biting them in the arse hard.

They don't have the popularity of the SNES and Mega Drive to fall back on so they really need to put on their best games and not duplicate some of them for it to sell well.

KikiKaiKai, Space Fantasy Zone, Legendary Axe, Legend of Valkyrie, Coyroon, Devil's Crush, Magical Chase and perhaps the Cho Aniki sequel too would have had people hyped for it as well as localised Snatcher but I feel they didn't take into consideration some of these choices as the SEGA ports aren't the best, and omitting even Splatterhouse is a bad move if they couldn't get Namco committed.

We also don't need 2 Neutopia games and Bomberman 93 when you have 94.
 
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KOMANI

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There may be issues regarding the artwork of the games:

And some changes have been made to Snatcher as well:

(NEC changed to HEC and ASCII changed to OSCII)
By the way, to those who don’t, follow Arc Hound on twitter. He translates many interviews from Konami employees, has a plethora of knowledge when it comes to development of Konami, Capcom, etc retro games. And you can learn so much more from the video games you love. Especially Snatcher.
 
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By the way, to those who don’t, follow Arc Hound on twitter. He translates many interviews from Konami employees, has a plethora of knowledge when it comes to development of Konami, Capcom, etc retro games. And you can learn so much more from the video games you love. Especially Snatcher.

Can he tell us what is happening at Konami at the moment? It feels like they are inconsistant with their messaging now.
 
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EightBit Man

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Sorry if I sound very passionate in this thread! Not aimed at anyone if I sound aggressive! :LOL:

Haha, not at all, so no sorry needed! The most passionate fans are often the most critical people. I think fans who "go along to get along" aren't genuinely interested in the supposed things they like.

And I agree with what you said. The Mega Drive/Genesis Mini is the very best effort thus far.
 
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Kazza

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I have to admit that I'm looking forward to playing The China Warrior (or The Kungfu, to give its Japanese name).



It jut looks so of its time:
- the huge sprites, designed to show off the power of the system (kind of like the ray-tracing of its day, and I would have been very impressed by this in 1987)
- the blatant rip-off of a famous person without giving a fuck about any legal consequences
- the popularity of kung fu

Looks like it plays a lot like Last Battle on the Megadrive (which I enjoyed playing at the time, especially as I had the Jap version with all the blood). I'm sure it's a simplistic game that I'll only end up playing for 5 minutes though...
 
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Haha, not at all, so no sorry needed! The most passionate fans are often the most critical people. I think fans who "go along to get along" aren't genuinely interested in the supposed things they like.

And I agree with what you said. The Mega Drive/Genesis Mini is the very best effort thus far.

I just think they should get the very best on there and blow people away.

Oh no, China Warrior....Hudson's Altered Beast in this scenario.

Anything but that! DX
 
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Pimpbaa

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It depends on the code you were running - both CPUs are designed around the same basic 6502 architecture and are connected to an 8 bit bus. The 65816 in the SNES has 16 bit registers and a 16 bit ALU - but 16 bit memory operations were slow because they had to be handled in two memory cycles. The result of this was that in most code 16 bit mode was used only when it was necessary, and the CPU ran in 8 bit mode whenever possible. The PC Engine CPU only had the 8 bit mode - but it was also clocked much higher (about twice as fast as the SNES in "fast ROM" mode) - so when running code that was dealing entirely with 8 bit data it was much faster. Conversely the SNES CPU was much faster for code that was doing lots of 16 bit operations and performing limited or no external memory access.

The other difference is that the PC Engine CPU - although basically a 6502 - was heavily customized. It had an on-chip memory mapper to get around the 64K addressing limitation and some extra instructions - some of these were just instruction set extensions (like bit manipulation and testing) and others were more specific - for example, there were special instructions that wrote literal values to the VDP registers so you didn't have to load the value into A and then write it out to a 16 bit direct mode address (which would be much slower). It also had memory transfer instructions - including one (TIA) that that appears to have been designed specifically to copy blocks of data from system RAM or ROM to the VDP with a single instruction.

There are also some large architectural differences in the video hardware - the SNES has up to 4 background layers (although most games used less due to the color depth limitations in the 4 BG mode) - the PCE has a single BG layer, but more palettes. There is also lots of scope for cheating on the PCE because you can write VRAM during active display time (this obviously burns a lot of CPU time).

One standout feature of the SNES is the ability to apply a matrix transform to the entire screen (in mode 7 only) - there is no equivalent feature on the PCE, and it would be far to computationally expensive to fake it.

Thanks, that was incredibly informative. The CPU in the TG16/PC Engine was better than I realized (didn't know it was heavily customized). I knew memory access was hobbled in the SNES, but now I know exactly why. You'd think between the PC Engine and the Mega Drive, Nintendo would have had a better setup for it's cpu and memory access (especially considering how good it's VDP and sound chip were). Anyway, hope you post here more often especially in 16-bit console comparison threads where some asshat inevitably dismisses the PC Engine just because it has a 8-bit cpu. It could definitely hang with the other two 16-bit system, especially with the CD add on and TurboDuo/PC Engine Duo with the later system cards. Plus you have the system port of Street Fighter II which looked amazing and the only thing that was worse than the other versions was the music.
 

dcx4610

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No Splatterhouse is absurd. Legendary Axe and Keith Courage really needed to be included for legacy as well. Other than that, it's a good line up with some surprises.
 

MrCunningham

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I have to post this video. I'm not that familiar with the TG-16/ PCE game library, but this guy seems to be. His rage levels are truly something.

 

Kazza

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I have to post this video. I'm not that familiar with the TG-16/ PCE game library, but this guy seems to be. His rage levels are truly something.


It's Sunday morning where I am, and I just can't handle so much swearing and raging in what is supposed to be my weekly chill time. I looked at this guy's video history, and he even seems pissed by the Megadrive Mini. If you'd excuse me, I'm off to watch a HappyConsoleGamer video to get back into the Sunday morning mood.
 
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KOMANI

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It's Sunday morning where I am, and I just can't handle so much swearing and raging in what is supposed to be my weekly chill time. I looked at this guy's video history, and he even seems pissed by the Megadrive Mini. If you'd excuse me, I'm off to watch a HappyConsoleGamer video to get back into the Sunday morning mood.
Funny you say that cause that’s who i linked in the post above yours. The only the other person I’m curious on hearing their opinion is Rich from ReviewTechUSA.
 

Kazza

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Funny you say that cause that’s who i linked in the post above yours. The only the other person I’m curious on hearing their opinion is Rich from ReviewTechUSA.

I never knew Richie was a PC Engine fan. I feel Johnny put out his video a little too quickly. I would have preferred him to sleep on it, and then go through each game one by one. There is a real lack of Youtubers knowledgeable about the PC Engine.
 

KOMANI

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I never knew Richie was a PC Engine fan. I feel Johnny put out his video a little too quickly. I would have preferred him to sleep on it, and then go through each game one by one. There is a real lack of Youtubers knowledgeable about the PC Engine.
Knowing Johnny’s content, he will probably revisit it within the week.
 

Impotaku

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Preorders are now live and it seems all 3 regions of machines are available from amazon japan. Just ordered the euro and japanese ones with a multitap and a couple of turbo pads. Not sure if it's japan gets to have a choice of all 3 machines or that they are going to be exclusive to amazon japan full stop. There's two listings for each console one that's a prime day launch and one that isn't it seems the prime day one will ship internationally as a couple of uk friends have ordered the prime one and it let them ship to the uk. You will need prime to be able to order though, luckily they have a free 30 day trial to abuse.

Here's the links
Jp pce

euro pce

turbografix

multitap

turbofire pads

If you have never used amazon japan before you will need to make a new japanese account as you can't log in from other regions like you can between europe & the usa.
 
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ClanOfNone

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I'm hyped for this little thing, I only knew one kid growing up that had a Turbografx so the exclusive library is practically unknown to me. One of the few consoles that I never owned. I've only played Legendary Axe (which is oddly absent on the mini) Ninja Spirits and Keith Courage.
 
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MrCunningham

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Watching some other youtubers on this... I am acually a little confused... Will all regions contain 50 games? Or will the Japanese region only have 50 games?
 

MrCunningham

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Yes, all regions get basically the very same games, minus two exceptions; Salamander is the US/PAL-exclusive, and Tokimeki Memorial is the Japanese-only exclusive.

That changes a lot... initially I thought the TG-16 would only get 24 games while the Japanese PCE would get 26 games. I really hope there is a way to play the PCE Snatcher in english. I never owned a PCE or TG-16, and I would consider buying one of these since it has a pretty extensive collection of 50 games.
 
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Scopa

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This thing has very little chance of releasing in Australia, right?

I wonder if Amazon will ship it here?
 

Trimesh

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I've always liked the PC Engine, so I'm definitely going to get one of these - probably the Euro spec one.

I still think that calling this thing "Mini" is stretching the term almost to breaking point, though.


 

ultrazilla

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No "The Legendary Axe 1 and 2, Keith Courage in the Alpha Zones, Splatterhouse, Bloody Wolf, Vigilante and Blazing Lazers"? Seriously? Did I miss these in the announcement? :messenger_sad_relieved:
 

Cynn

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I kinda hoped Dragon Spirit, Splatterhouse, Galaga '90, or maybe Ordyne, Valkyrie no Densetsu, and The Tower of Druaga to be there, but alas! Maybe because Namco wants to passively refer fans of some of these games to other compilations, like Namco Museum for Switch...
It’s not like the thing won’t be hacked in a week from release so every game on the system can be added.

I’m pretty sure that anyone who buys a mini Turbo is going to be enthusiast enough to take that extra step. I’m most interested in how the hardware performs since for me, the official game list is irrelevant.
 
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EightBit Man

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It’s not like the thing won’t be hacked in a week from release so every game on the system can be added.

I’m pretty sure that anyone who buys a mini Turbo is going to be enthusiast enough to take that extra step. I’m most interested in how the hardware performs since for me, the official game list is irrelevant.

I know that's a possibility, but personally I'm not a fan of going that route. One of the reasons is simply compatibility and accuracy. Games that are included on the Nintendo and SEGA consoles are tailored and optimized to run well on these consoles (especially SEGA's console done by M2). Second, I'm a purist, and like to have my stuff "untouched". And third, if I ever wanted to get all games on such a console, I'd buy a Raspberry Pi instead.

That's just my take on it. People are free to do whatever they want with their purchased consoles. (y)