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[TweakTown]: FTC calls Xbox Game Pass Standard tier a 'degraded product,' alleges harm to consumers

bender

What time is it?
Like let's look at all the bits here that Fnor's left context out of
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Three

Gold Member
Can't say I agree with this in this example. You're comparing two different tiers just because they were at the same price point at different times and passing it off as an example of service degradation.

Ultimate has not lost any of the things from your list.

You wouldn't say that the Popeyes chicken sandwich has degraded just because it's not $3.99 anymore 🤷‍♂️
If within a year they put the price of a chicken sandwich meal to the price of a family bucket and remove the fries from the meal has it degraded? No apparently because they renamed it to a chicken burger meal.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
Microsoft is going to have to put a lot of work removing all these "day one" references on their Game Pass website. There are a ton of them. Right now it is ok because they only show options for PC and Ultimate, but when Standard launches they will either have to clean up all this or put a shitton of asterisks beside every "day one" claim.

Interesting that Core is on its own page and not offered next to PC and Ultimate.

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On the topic of Core, like so many of Microsoft’s ideas, I find it to be a good idea in theory but poorly executed.

The mish mash of games makes no sense to me.

Gears 5, Fallout 76, TES Online, Among Us, Grounded & Halo 5 are all great games to include. But why not go the whole distance and add other big hitters like Sea of Thieves, MCC and even Forza Motorsport? Games that actually promote social interaction and MTX investment from the players? They needed all of that.

They should be using Core as their strapline; ‘Game Pass, starting from £4.99 a month’. This would be £59.88 a year over the annual option which is about to rise to £54.99 a year. However, £4.99 a month allows consumers to access the service at a low entry fee. Why charge £6.99 a month for this?

It’s just another ‘nearly’ thing for MS which simply means it’s a miss.
 

Three

Gold Member
On the topic of Core, like so many of Microsoft’s ideas, I find it to be a good idea in theory but poorly executed.

The mish mash of games makes no sense to me.

Gears 5, Fallout 76, TES Online, Among Us, Grounded & Halo 5 are all great games to include. But why not go the whole distance and add other big hitters like Sea of Thieves, MCC and even Forza Motorsport? Games that actually promote social interaction and MTX investment from the players? They needed all of that.

They should be using Core as their strapline; ‘Game Pass, starting from £4.99 a month’. This would be £59.88 a year over the annual option which is about to rise to £54.99 a year. However, £4.99 a month allows consumers to access the service at a low entry fee. Why charge £6.99 a month for this?

It’s just another ‘nearly’ thing for MS which simply means it’s a miss.
The mishmash of games are online multiplayer games that are old or aren't performing that well on the console in terms of population like Halo 5 and Gears 5. Games like MCC, SoT and FM they feel are better performers than them or at least new enough to be on higher priced tiers for now. They will probably rotate FM into it at some point though if I had to guess. The £4.99 to £6.99 price increase is to just make more money from those who sub for a couple of months to play them and if they get hooked to sub longer you're making 40% more money from them.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
So "Game Pass Standard" would than be called "Game Pass (PC and Ultimate) Standard" with your solution, which would make it even more confusing.


Sad Season 4 GIF by The Office


If within a year they put the price of a chicken sandwich meal to the price of a family bucket and remove the fries from the meal has it degraded? No apparently because they renamed it to a chicken burger meal.

Again, no. Your analogy doesn't work. Whether it's $3.99, or $6.99, the sandwich is still the same. If they replace the chicken between the buns with some impossible meat bullshit, then that's degradation of the product.

Just increasing the price is not degrading the product.
 
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Banjo64

cumsessed
The mishmash of games are online multiplayer games that are old or aren't performing that well on the console in terms of population like Halo 5 and Gears 5. Games like MCC, SoT and FM they feel are better performers than them or at least new enough to be on higher priced tiers for now. They will probably rotate FM into it at some point though if I had to guess. The £4.99 to £6.99 price increase is to just make more money from those who sub for a couple of months to play them and if they get hooked to sub longer you're making 40% more money from them.
I get why but for me (and I’ve always assumed for others) - £4.99 is sort of the sweet spot where I don’t even have to think about subscribing. A fiver a month for online, cloud saves and some good relevant games? I could leave that on auto renew for years.
 

Three

Gold Member
Again, no. Your analogy doesn't work. Whether it's $3.99, or $6.99, the sandwich is still the same. If they replace the chicken between the buns with some impossible meat bullshit, then that's degradation of the product.

Just increasing the price is not degrading the product.
But the sandwich meal is not the same in this analogy. Not only has the price skyrocketed it no longer includes fries. Removing something from the menu then introducing the same thing that doesn't include what it had before can be considered degradation of the product. I'm not sure what's difficult to understand or why you're convoluting it.

If Mercedes decided that the next C Class will now cost the same as an S Class and the C Class will no longer include things that previously came with the C Class like an infotainment system it means that the product has degraded.
 
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reinking

Gold Member
Ok I think the goal post is back as far as it can go.
Have you seriously not witnessed this happening with streaming services? It happens a lot. They grandfather people in and then in a year (or sometimes more) migrate them over. Grandfathered plans do not last forever.
 
I think Standard will be the least popular service of them all myself. I just don't see the value.
as someone who'd never owned an xbox, i'd've found it to be a value even without day 1. but, after a year & half, i'd basically exhausted it - played what i'd liked, passed on what i didn't, & bought what i was likely to replay. thing is, it's not really a massive amount of content (trust me: i've scrolled through the complete contents multiple times), & contains lots of non-exclusive &/or mediocre games. so, yeah, there's a 'window of value' (not to be confused with a 'circus of value') for someone new to xbox. but, beyond that 18 month window? not so much. for people who've previously owned an xbox? i agree, even much less so, if any...

i'd say it's a plan that basically targets people who've never held a controller before...
 

graywolf323

Member
I think Standard will be the least popular service of them all myself. I just don't see the value.
it’s such a weird take by Dring too, suddenly there’s going to be a surge in people subscribing to Standard at the same price that Ultimate didn’t hook them at despite having FEWER features than Ultimate? 🤨
 

Iced Arcade

Member
it is a dog shit move. And I'm an Xbox fan.


all the moves they have been making since Activision is going to be the final nails in the coffin for any future acquisitions.
 

FlyyGOD

Member
It is a higher priced tier that replaces another tier while taking away day one games.
Microsoft grandfathered existing customers in. Nobody is losing anything. 2nd of all when gamepass was created day one games didn't exist. Day one games weren't added until later on.
 
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reinking

Gold Member
Why the focus on Gamepass, literally every subscription service does this once they have built up a userbase.
I guess you can look at it like when a streaming service brings in ads to the normal priced no ad tier and then bumps that no ad tier to a higher price. To be fair, people complain about that too.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Microsoft grandfathered existing customers in. Nobody is losing anything. 2nd of all when gamepass was created day one games didn't exist. Day one games weren't added until later on.

That's simply because there were no day one games at the time of announcement. Come on man.

But yes, grandfathered in until MS says otherwise.
 
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Boss Mog

Member
Do they call out other subscription services for this shit?

I’m no Xbox fan but my Jesus go shit on Sonys price increase with no value added to the customer for penis station plus.
I agree that the Sony increase was ridiculous but they didn't change the service. The issue with Game Pass standard is that they're increasing the price while at the same time taking away the major appeal of Game Pass which is of course day and date availability of all 1st party titles (which now includes Call of Duty).
 
MICROSOFT RESPONDS AND HUMILIATES THE FTC AGAIN👊💥

Microsoft has responded to the FTC's presentation on Xbox Game Pass price increases. It describes the FTC's letter as a "misleading story" and says that the FTC is wrong to call Game Pass Standard a "degraded" version because it now also includes multiplayer mode that was not previously held.

Apparently Microsoft had already measured all this and knew that the FTC would look for something to attack again.

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Three

Gold Member
MICROSOFT RESPONDS AND HUMILIATES THE FTC AGAIN👊💥

Microsoft has responded to the FTC's presentation on Xbox Game Pass price increases. It describes the FTC's letter as a "misleading story" and says that the FTC is wrong to call Game Pass Standard a "degraded" version because it now also includes multiplayer mode that was not previously held.

Apparently Microsoft had already measured all this and knew that the FTC would look for something to attack again.

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"Had to be purchased at an additional 9.99/month" . Man, show how many people paid for live monthly instead of the previous $59.99 annual at RRP let alone had to pay for online at all. At most you're saving 1 dollar a month at the cost of no day one games now if you did. The worst is far worse for consumers though. you're having to pay for something you might not want (and should be free anyway), still get a poorer service with no new games on the sub that you had before, and paying $4/month more. It's like saying oh but we give you a sauce for $4 more with this sandwich meal that no longer has the meat or fries adamsapples analogy. A lot of places give you free sauce anyway.

If they were truly trying to save you money they would have offered both options but nobody would have chosen no day one for a dollar less and a lot wouldn't have even paid for online play. They wanted to remove the day one option for that price because it is the most costly thing and drive people to the more expensive $20/month. Near double what they were paying before for day one games on the console.
 
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Orbital2060

Member
It is as if FTC are reading gaming foruns and picking up ideas from the innermost circles of gaming fandom. Nobody in the real world cares about this or agree with FTC on this.

Theyre just wasting taxpayers money.
 

laynelane

Member
MICROSOFT RESPONDS AND HUMILIATES THE FTC AGAIN👊💥

Microsoft has responded to the FTC's presentation on Xbox Game Pass price increases. It describes the FTC's letter as a "misleading story" and says that the FTC is wrong to call Game Pass Standard a "degraded" version because it now also includes multiplayer mode that was not previously held.

Apparently Microsoft had already measured all this and knew that the FTC would look for something to attack again.

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They're a little all over the place in this response. The idea that subscription wasn't thoroughly covered at trial seems to have thrown them for a loop. Still managed to get in a little dig at Sony there too, as per normal.
 
Finally, the FTC ignores critical variables in the economic analysis by disregarding the new options the merger will create for playing Activision content.

Here, the acquisition would benefit consumers by making Call of Duty available on Microsoft’s Game Pass on the day it is released on console (with no price increase for the service based on the acquisition), on Nintendo, and on other services that allow cloud streaming.

Página #25:

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Topher

Gold Member
Finally, the FTC ignores critical variables in the economic analysis by disregarding the new options the merger will create for playing Activision content.

Here, the acquisition would benefit consumers by making Call of Duty available on Microsoft’s Game Pass on the day it is released on console (with no price increase for the service based on the acquisition), on Nintendo, and on other services that allow cloud streaming.

Página #25:

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Not a conspiracy. Just a blatant lie.

MICROSOFT RESPONDS AND HUMILIATES THE FTC AGAIN👊💥

lol....you really think that response "humiliates" the FTC?

Jennifer Lawrence Reaction GIF
 
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Three

Gold Member
It is as if FTC are reading gaming foruns and picking up ideas from the innermost circles of gaming fandom. Nobody in the real world cares about this or agree with FTC on this.

Theyre just wasting taxpayers money.
As oppose to MS lawyers citing TweakTown in their latest response and Tom Warren previously?
 
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