Support NeoGAF

[StuBurns]

But Black came out in June of 2001, 3 to 4 months before the onslought of fall releases and a majority of the games you mentioned. So I'm a bit surprised and saddened that it didn't sell that well. I remember reviewing that game. I don't remember what I gave it, but it was insanely high. Somewhere in the 9.5 - 9.8 range, I think. That game was a revelation to me. Insanely good.

I also remember when TM: Black and Gran Turismo 3 came out in a time where everyone said the PS2 had no games. Man, that all changed in a hurry.

But I digress... :lol

That's true I guess, but I do think the average teenager would horde the cash ready for the onslaught of masterpieces in the coming months. Black is awesome, but it's not as good as half of the games I mentioned in that post, and after TM3 & 4 were mediocre, there was probably some doubt on the franchise.

My point was really that I disagree the rating of Black is the reason it didn't sell as well as the earlier games, and that I don't think making an M rated TM today would hurt sales at all. 2001 was by a long way the most triple A packed year in gaming, it has games ten places down a GotY list that would make current releases look embarrassing.

Had Black launched a year before I am utterly convinced it'd have sold far, far better.

 

[Y2Kev]

Are the Black servers still online, Jaffe? Does anyone know?

I have a mega hankering for some TM....

 

[Bukana]

not sure how accurate, but i found these numbers here

edit: USA

Twisted Metal - 1.08 million
Twisted Metal 2 - 1.74 million
Twisted Metal 3 - 1.14 million

Twisted Metal: Black - 940K

no mention of TM4

so it was in same ballpark as TM1 and TM3, but yeah I can see the M rating having had an effect. the game itself wasn't particularly M-rated, just the cutscenes (which were some of the darkest/disturbing ones i'd seen in a game up till that point)

i liked them, but I also liked the TM2 cutscenes, so a balance between the two sounds fine to me.

Oh god. That's totally unfair, TM3 & 4 suck so bad .. they even changed the original vehicle's specials . I remember Thumper's special was bouncing with beats or something like this.

 

[Bukana]

Are the Black servers still online, Jaffe? Does anyone know?

I have a mega hankering for some TM....

Even if they are still online, I wouldn't think there would be some people still playing .

 

[Spectral Glider]

My only small criticism is that I wish they left the freeze, fire-backwards, etc. moves as button combos like in the old games. I liked how it took that extra bit of skill to pull those off, always made it more thrilling for example when you're being chased by someone and have to punch in 'left, right, down' real quick in order to fire backwards.

Yeah, but for us run n gun control scheme vets, that layout sucked because you wound up jumping or putting down a mine by accident, and usually at the worst possible time. I used to hate that. Was always running over a mine by accident that I laid down but didn't want to.

 

[DJ Crimson]

Are the Black servers still online, Jaffe? Does anyone know?

I have a mega hankering for some TM....

Reminds me the time when they gave a free copy of TM: BO with the Network Adapter and then added it to the Greatest Hits version. Their servers have been down for a couple of years now. They even turned off TM: Head-On's servers a couple of months ago.

 

[Bukana]

Reminds me the time when they gave a free copy of TM: BO with the Network Adapter and then added it to the Greatest Hits version. Their servers have been down for a couple of years now. They even turned off TM: Head-On's servers a couple of months ago.

Iv'e never played any online game on the PS2, was the online mode flexible or easy in a way ?

 

[Revolutionary]

Reminds me the time when they gave a free copy of TM: BO with the Network Adapter and then added it to the Greatest Hits version. Their servers have been down for a couple of years now. They even turned off TM: Head-On's servers a couple of months ago.

Those fuckers never sent me my copy of Online, even though I sent in the voucher and all. Total bullshit - never got to play TM online.

What's the word on a Roadkill faction, Jaffe?

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Iv'e never played any online game on the PS2, was the online mode flexible or easy in a way ?

It was very rudimentary; but this was before PSN, which is at least somewhat standardized and easy to implement. PS2 online had potential, but since Sony wasn't willing to get overly involved in the online development process there was no consistency between online titles and when SOCOM is your best online game at that time - that's not saying much about your commitment to online gaming.

Black was one of the better online games, but not exceedingly so. Hard to find players too just because it wasn't SOCOM. :|

 

[Kimosabae]

Am I the only one getting the impression from this demo that Jaffe doesn't want to be making this game?

 

[davidjaffe]

Am I the only one getting the impression from this demo that Jaffe doesn't want to be making this game?

You could not be more wrong. This is probably the most fun I've had designing a game and I think it represents some of the best work we've ever done. I think this will be the best Twisted Metal ever, better than Tm2.

If I came off as not excited it was because I was crazy hung over and tired during the presentation. I was up till 2am the night before in the hotel bar hanging with Sony marketing, the Eat Sleep Play team, and others. Also I was very upset because the demo had lots of tech glitches that may not have been evident in the video but for me they really pissed me off cause if we had had more time to rehearse the demo we could have worked around them. But we were all so fried in prepping for the actual on floor demo + the Sony presser + editing the gameplay video + the taxi driver intro movie that the one thing that didn't get as much time was the behind closed door practices.

So yeah, no: I am crazy in love with this game and love that that video- glitchy as it was- got out to the net as I think it does a good job of explaining how we are trying to expand the series in the team based play area. Thanks Giant Bomb!

David

 

[Yeef]

Am I the only one getting the impression from this demo that Jaffe doesn't want to be making this game?

I get the impression that he's extremely tired, not that he doesn't want to be there.

Warthog, Outlaw and Minion were always my favorites. Hopefully at least Outlaw and Warthog's vehicles will return.

[Edit]I was right!

 

[JWong]

You could not be more wrong. This is probably the most fun I've had designing a game and I think it represents some of the best work we've ever done. I think this will be the best Twisted Metal ever, better than Tm2.

If I came off as not excited it was because I was crazy hung over and tired during the presentation. I was up till 2am the night before in the hotel bar hanging with Sony marketing, the Eat Sleep Play team, and others. Also I was very upset because the demo had lots of tech glitches that may not have been evident in the video but for me they really pissed me off cause if we had had more time to rehearse the demo we could have worked around them. But we were all so fried in prepping for the actual on floor demo + the Sony presser + editing the gameplay video + the taxi driver intro movie that the one thing that didn't get as much time was the behind closed door practices.

So yeah, no: I am crazy in love with this game and love that that video- glitchy as it was- got out to the net as I think it does a good job of explaining how we are trying to expand the series in the team based play area. Thanks Giant Bomb!

David

You never cease to impress us.

Spoiler

/sucking up

 

[S1lent]

I think this will be the best Twisted Metal ever, better than Tm2.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

You could not be more wrong. This is probably the most fun I've had designing a game and I think it represents some of the best work we've ever done. I think this will be the best Twisted Metal ever, better than Tm2.

If I came off as not excited it was because I was crazy hung over and tired during the presentation. I was up till 2am the night before in the hotel bar hanging with Sony marketing, the Eat Sleep Play team, and others. Also I was very upset because the demo had lots of tech glitches that may not have been evident in the video but for me they really pissed me off cause if we had had more time to rehearse the demo we could have worked around them. But we were all so fried in prepping for the actual on floor demo + the Sony presser + editing the gameplay video + the taxi driver intro movie that the one thing that didn't get as much time was the behind closed door practices.

So yeah, no: I am crazy in love with this game and love that that video- glitchy as it was- got out to the net as I think it does a good job of explaining how we are trying to expand the series in the team based play area. Thanks Giant Bomb!

David

should have said "best twisted metal ever, better than twisted metal black".

TMB isn't only the best twisted metal game ever, it's honestly the best game on ps2 and that is saying something because there are obviously a bunch of awesome games for the system.

i think TMB was a victim of its time. it was kind of caught in that time when online play was still new to console gaming. i know there was TMB: online (and i played it a bunch!) but it was really a hassle to get ahold of and didn't have all the features we would expect to see today.

twisted metal is perfect for online play. almost seems like the game was designed for it! i was worried about what the ps3 version would look like (not the graphics, the gameplay) but after seeing these videos that is enough for me. this is a day 0 game for me. a game i have been waiting years for!

 

[hxa155]

I hope the game's single player is a bit easier than Black cuz Warhawk is just reaaaally hard.

 

[Kimosabae]

You could not be more wrong. This is probably the most fun I've had designing a game and I think it represents some of the best work we've ever done. I think this will be the best Twisted Metal ever, better than Tm2.

If I came off as not excited it was because I was crazy hung over and tired during the presentation. I was up till 2am the night before in the hotel bar hanging with Sony marketing, the Eat Sleep Play team, and others. Also I was very upset because the demo had lots of tech glitches that may not have been evident in the video but for me they really pissed me off cause if we had had more time to rehearse the demo we could have worked around them. But we were all so fried in prepping for the actual on floor demo + the Sony presser + editing the gameplay video + the taxi driver intro movie that the one thing that didn't get as much time was the behind closed door practices.

So yeah, no: I am crazy in love with this game and love that that video- glitchy as it was- got out to the net as I think it does a good job of explaining how we are trying to expand the series in the team based play area. Thanks Giant Bomb!

David

Okay, that's good to know. Watching you demo the game brought to mind a lot of your passed musings regarding your beefs with the game industry.

Seeing a mature adult explain the mechanics of a car combat game with angsty aesthetics to a larger group of adults made me consider how that might seem unfulfilling to someone that is quite vocal about making more non-traditional, thought provoking games. The image of you standing next to the game was almost incongruous and your demeanor sold it.

*NOTE*

Twisted Metal looks awesome, Jaffe is awesome, car combat games are (in concept) awesome, mature adults playing Twisted Metal/ Car Combat games are AWESOME. These are just thoughts that were stimulated by the onscreen images provided by Jaffe's exhibition.

 

[Stumpokapow]

not sure how accurate, but i found these numbers here

edit: USA

Twisted Metal - 1.08 million
Twisted Metal 2 - 1.74 million
Twisted Metal 3 - 1.14 million

Twisted Metal: Black - 940K

no mention of TM4

so it was in same ballpark as TM1 and TM3, but yeah I can see the M rating having had an effect. the game itself wasn't particularly M-rated, just the cutscenes (which were some of the darkest/disturbing ones i'd seen in a game up till that point)

i liked them, but I also liked the TM2 cutscenes, so a balance between the two sounds fine to me.

those numbers are accurate npd numbers

twisted metal 4 did 930k (source 97-03 npd xls file that was leaked publicly a long time ago)
small brawl did 150k (source 97-03 npd xls file that was leaked publicly a long time ago)
head on did somewhere around 500k (number was posted in a public forum, not gaf, in 2008; i don't have any special sources)

 

[TheThunder]

Man TM3 and especially that shit 4th game totally hurt Black chances not the M rating.

 

[Sullichin]

So impressed with this game & so happy that Jaffe is at the helm. Seems like a perfect blend of TM2 and TMB's atmosphere. I liked the recent TM games like Head On but this is a total reinvention of the series and it looks great. I really appreciated how much this demonstration focused on gameplay mechanics rather than "bullet points." Obviously they are very concerned with making a balanced game that's fun as hell. Axel better be in the game!!!

AXEL POWER

 

[DidntKnowJack]

So yeah, no: I am crazy in love with this game and love that that video- glitchy as it was- got out to the net as I think it does a good job of explaining how we are trying to expand the series in the team based play area. Thanks Giant Bomb!

David

David, you should go on the Bombcast. I know they want to have you. I'm sure scheduling problems as well as location factors in to all of it and makes things difficult, but I'd love to hear you sit down and shoot the shit with them sometime.

(Damn typos)

 

[Redbeard]

This game looks seriously fun.

And since there's really no other game out there like it this gen, I'm sure it will find lots of success.

One thing I love about the footage I saw, particularly the Nuke mode, is that there are different levels of engagement in order to win the mode, and each level of engagement is highly visible (from the gigantic floating statues, to the locations where the leader is camped out at, to the missile launcher location)

There's a lot of room here for faction based strategies, and the game seems like it can be a riot playing with your friends. Most games simply don't encourage teamplay at all and you just kind of do your own thing, but this game seems to really encourage different car combinations working in tandem.

One thing I really don't like about a lot of shooters, like Jaffe said, is there there doesn't seem to be the personal connection to the players you're playing with or against. You either die too quickly, or the mode quickly devolves into a lopsided match without this tug of war gameplay.

From what I've seen of the new Twisted Metal, it has some incredible class based depth for the cars and teamplay and allows for this incredibly engaging tug of war against the opposing faction.

It's been a while since I've picked up a Twisted Metal game (PS1 era), but I will be picking this one up day 1 for sure. Seems like a lot of thought has gone into the design.

Only gripe is that I wish graphically it was a bit more 'stylized' and took the Twisted Metal art to the next level, but it's a minor gripe as I'm sure EatSleepPlay is a pretty small team...

BTW, how many people work at EatSleepPlay and are developing for Twisted Metal?

 

[Xellos]

Looks good! It has been a long time since I played a Twisted Metal game. Played many hours of TM 1 & 2 with friends back on PS1, then skipped 3 & 4 after the poor reviews. Last one I played was TM Black 9 years ago. I remember by main complaint with Black (single player) being that the CPU controlled cars did not really fight, damage, or destroy each other that much, leaving it to me to blow them all up. Hopefully that won't be the case this time.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Man TM3 and especially that shit 4th game totally hurt Black chances not the M rating.

989 Studios ruined the god damned franchise. Fortunately we got Vigilante 8 and Rogue Trip (hey, those guys!) while 989 was shitting the neighborhood up, and when the Incognito guys got their baby back.

Am I the only one getting the impression from this demo that Jaffe doesn't want to be making this game?

Have you ever tried explaining the intricacies of a game to newbies while playing a game? Ever pay attention to who divided your attention is between the game and relaying accurate information? Give it a go sometime.

 

[Unknown One]

That presentation is awesome. I love games that requires teamwork.

 

[Carnby]

Looks good! It has been a long time since I played a Twisted Metal game. Played many hours of TM 1 & 2 with friends back on PS1, then skipped 3 & 4 after the poor reviews. Last one I played was TM Black 9 years ago. I remember by main complaint with that Black (single player) being that the CPU controlled cars did not really fight, damage, or destroy each other that much, leaving it to me to blow them all up. Hopefully that won't be the case this time.

this. The game was incredible, but way too hard. i always thought TM2 had the best difficulty. The holland stage is the best example of fair difficulty while not being too easy. it was a hard stage, but if you passed the stage its because you were a skilled player.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

The nuke mode really reminded me of watching my friend play Twisted Metal on his Playstation back in the day. I remember he was trying to show me how to knock the Eiffel Tower over, and it was this long series of steps that made no sense to me at the time. It was sort of a nostalgia trip for a game I never played.

I think it makes me much more interested in the game than I would be otherwise. You have to know the game you are playing. Sure it is car on car violence, but each of those car is really on some multi-part quest that you are oblivious to when you decide to fire a rocket at it.

 

[I should be doing hw]

Glad to see you repping your Disneyland hat, David. :lol

When is your vow of silence going to be up, I miss your videos.

Also, for what it's worth, I've never played a Twisted Metal game in my life and I'm hyped as all hell for this. As a young boy with a PS2, the boxart for one of the TM's really gave me the wrong impression of the game. I thought it was going to be something in the vein of Manhunt or something :lol
So if reaching a new audience was part of your intention with this, as it seems to be, then its working! Don't have any doubts about that, what you have shown so far looks amazing.
Your posts here are also quelling the usual FUD that plagues GAF when it is shown alpha/beta footage. I look forward to seeing more.

P.S. One question that hasn't been clarified (for me), is this a Bluray title now as well as a PSN one? Because I know this project started out smaller than it is, and began to grow and grow. I must have missed when this was clarified if it was.

 

[Datwheezy]

I'm hoping the game is more TM2 than 3 and 4. Looked a tad bit too floaty thought, but who knows until I get a chance to play it.

 

[Sullichin]

I'm hoping the game is more TM2 than 3 and 4. Looked a tad bit too floaty thought, but who knows until I get a chance to play it.

I'm sure it won't be anything like the 989 abominations...

 

[Carnby]

I'm hoping the game is more TM2 than 3 and 4. Looked a tad bit too floaty thought, but who knows until I get a chance to play it.

nothing was more floaty than TM3. cars would tip over when hitting even the smallest of bumps.

 

[Lotan]

Hey Sony, if you're listening, Twisted Metal 2 and Black in a HD retreatment would be cool.

Just saying...



Hey Jaffe, I really liked Grasshopper, a vehicle with that kind of aerial move could be pretty sweet.

Can't wait to run out of weapons and chase all you down with machine guns only to have them over heat and have to ram into you to get the killing blow.

 

[S1lent]

I remember by main complaint with Black (single player) being that the CPU controlled cars did not really fight, damage, or destroy each other that much, leaving it to me to blow them all up. Hopefully that won't be the case this time.

Having just gone back and played a little bit of Black after this game's announcement, I totally agree with this gripe.

 

[Hydrargyrus]

I get the impression that he's extremely tired, not that he doesn't want to be there.

Yes.
I don't know, but always I've seen Jaffe looks like he's very tired.
For what I've seen, he is involving himself at 100%, like always. But, seriously, don't forget to sleep Jaffe, not only Eat & Play :lol :lol

 

[Lotan]

Having just gone back and played a little bit of Black after this game's announcement, I totally agree with this gripe.

The problem is that because of the large size of the levels if the AI is just attacking each other constantly then you can pretty much roam the outskirts of the level and let them kill each other.

I do agree that this is a problem though. Perhaps they can routine the AI to bring the fight to you. They'd still need to attack each other, but have them want to attack each other near you.

I'm sure they have already thought of a solution to this though, and online it will not be a problem.

 

[GotchaForce]

The game looks fucking fantastic. 1,2 and Black were the shit back in the day and this looks like exactly what I want. At least in multi-player, anyways. Not followed this thread to the letter, has there been any word on the campaign? The faction stuff is cool, but it is weird seeing vehicles like Mr Grimm's and Spectre's being used by Sweettooth's gang. Will the single player have individual characters and cars?

 

[Lotan]

The game looks fucking fantastic. 1,2 and Black were the shit back in the day and this looks like exactly what I want. At least in multi-player, anyways. Not followed this thread to the letter, has there been any word on the campaign? The faction stuff is cool, but it is weird seeing vehicles like Mr Grimm's and Spectre's being used by Sweettooth's gang. Will the single player have individual characters and cars?

They're aren't talking about single player yet except for saying that there will be story based single player mode with a new incarnation of Calypso.

 

[subversus]

I've never played any TM game, but I'm a fan of car combat since DeathTrack and there are no decent combat racers this gen. I got my fix with Motorstorm. Looking forward to this game.

 

[Cipherr]

"You've got an ambulance with his patient in the back that can be fired off as a missle."

:lol

holy SHIT :lol :lol

 

[J-Rod]

Shoot flaming chainsaws. Nice.

 

[J-Rzez]

This game is looking all kinds of awesome. I love my GT-esque games, and generally dismissed other racers outside of Hot Pursuits, and especially car combat games, as they all were pretty weak. Twisted Metals, most of them at least, were the only fun car combat games I've played. Super hyped to see this progress. There is a lot of detail here, even in this map's design. It looks like so many routes, so many access points to take, so attacking and defending is going to be great. This game should provide for some fun, intense gaming. Glad there's a bit of balancing being focused on here.

Nuke mode looks awesome so far. Love objective based game modes since they add on more layers of action to take part in. I'll do my death matches here and there, but I always gravitate more towards team/squad based objective modes. Really kicks it up a notch.

So happy to see this returning to it's former glory. Sucks it's taking so long to get it, but I'm happy we're actually getting a new one with so much more thought being put into it.

 

[Rated-Rsuperstar]

Shoot flaming chainsaws. Nice.

It's a great gameplay addition. Throw a chainsaw for normal damage. Or pop a wheelie and drag that sucker across the ground to light it on fire and deal triple damage.

 

[Voyevoda007]

Damn this game looks awesome. Day one for me.

 

[Unknown One]

Twisted Metal doesn't need to rated M to be good. By going from what I've seen in the awesome presentation (I actually watched from start to finish) it's creativity that does and the next Twisted Metal is crazy creative. Great work David Jaffe.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Hey Jaffe, I really liked Grasshopper, a vehicle with that kind of aerial move could be pretty sweet.

YES! Grasshopper^5

Having just gone back and played a little bit of Black after this game's announcement, I totally agree with this gripe.

That's the reason I returned that shit day one. Didn't look back until they released the Online version. Pitbull AI is no fun, and it was another reason why TM2 was so much more fun. It wasn't the CPU blatantly dog pile raping the human player.

 

[X-Frame]

Twisted Metal doesn't need to rated M to be good. By going from what I've seen in the awesome presentation (I actually watched from start to finish) it's creativity that does and the next Twisted Metal is crazy creative. Great work David Jaffe.

I always was a little surprised that they're going for a T-Rating but from what I've seen in the game it doesn't matter at all. Everything, like you said, is very creative and it certainly doesn't need an M-Rating.

 

[JohngPR]

Great presentation, I'm really looking forward to playing this for myself. I have only one question for David: Are there any plans for a demo??


TM: Black was by far my favorite Twisted Metal game despite it being hard ass balls in SP. LOL

It's one of the first games that I couldn't help but notice the framerate on. That game ran smooth as butter.

My favorite was The Preacher when he shot out one of his followers strapped with explosives and yells "Repent!!!" as he explodes. I remember thinking to myself, "Man, what kind of sick mother fucker thought of this? I love it!"

:lol

 

[Kimosabae]

Never understood people not liking Twisted Metal Black. The presentation of that game is what kept me glued to it for a good while. Of course, that was the first time I had really played a Twisted Metal game. I was a 64 kid.

*shrug*

 

[ScHlAuChi]

Will there be configureable controls?
I love to play games like TwistelMetal with DPad for steering and X/S for accelrate/break!

So many games dont allow you to change controls, its annoying - its one reason why i didnt buy Burnout Paradise. You would think in 2010 configureable controls would be standard, but NO, some devs dont get it.....

You might not remeber me, but i was that weird dude that was sitting right beside you at the DICE conference who asked you for an autograph on the DICE pass.
I also asked your opinion on Demons Souls, played through it by now?

 

[Dante]

This was probably the most fun demo I got to try at E3 This game is going to be a HUGE time suck for me and my brother who also loved the demo.