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Twitch introduces "Safety Advisory Council" to promote inclusivity, members include trans furry who thinks voice chat in games is "non-inclusive"
- Thread starter Mahadev
- Start date
PleaseWaitStation4
Banned
Everybody virtue signal! It's a virtue signal trap. Brought to you by Twitch management. It's a political move. Don't fall for it.
Allnamestakenlol
Member
Holy shit - LOL
Shai-Tan
Banned
They’re just echoing the worst of too online Twitter and other social media. Lots of know nothings who don’t recognize they’re the product of political polarization (including platform owners, developers, marginal academics that should know better). There’s no doubt that if you’re asking for it you’ll get some actual alt right idiots making you a symbol to hate. The solution there is to be reasonable and not use moron caricatures of opposing views. These dumb online battles feed on black and white interpretations of the other side that bypass charity by circle jerk about outlier people who are playing to the home team. Some of what that person says is reasonable if you take a fair interpretation but then they turn around and act like they are auditioning to be the left version of Ann Coulter.
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#Phonepunk#
Banned
actually i found out about this because i follow a number of youtubers who stream on Twitch and this directly affects their line of work and they are pissed about it. i actually tried to ignore this story for the past week but it's at the point where the people i watch are being affected, so i can no longer ignore.
the problem is that she is in a position that affects a lot of people. plugging your ears and ignoring it and hoping it will go away isn't going to do anything.
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SaturnSaturn
Member
Its not an argument its a fact.
Shai-Tan
Banned
It really depends on how the council works. If there was a tag team of crazies it might get out of hand, else if the others are reasonable any one voice will likely be moderated in whatever consensus they produce. YouTube punditry, Reddit etc incentivize catastrophizing
LordKasual
Banned
I mean you can stand for whatever you believe in, nobody is telling you not to. That's exactly what these people with their "nonsense" are doing. I'm just letting you know what happens when you decide to stand in direct and total opposition of them....it does make them stronger, that's just a fact.
I mean, don't get me wrong, this works both ways. Far-left groups becoming more vocal will result in far-right groups doing the same. My comment about recursive hatred isn't exclusive to one side at all. I'm even tempted to say NeoGAF is literally proof of this, with how vocal its right-leaning posters are after the Era schism.
Do I think this "Safety Advisory Council" is a good idea? No, it looks really fucking dumb and cliche to me. But do I care enough to comment on it / make threads to bash it / seek conversations and enjoy bashing their life choices?
Absolutely not. It's nothing more than background noise. I wouldn't have even known without NeoGAF.
I just think people should learn to mind their own business just a littttttle bit more. it improves everyone's quality of life.
No, you look at ResetEra to see what happens when extremists decide to relentlessly create and maintain a bubble universe where only specific opinions are allowed.
Everyone here knows that the ResetEra mods AGGRESSIVELY cull any dissenting opinions that stray from their agenda, and so the only people left there are the population of centrists (who don't argue / don't care) and those who agree with the overall ideology.
ResetEra is not an example of "wild opinions growing rampant".....i mean it is, but it's a very specific place. If you're able to identify that the people there are "crazy", why do you then decide to confuse them with reality???
They are absolutely no different from the kinds of websites/forums that relentlessly bash SJWs/leftist opinions and revel in mocking how "weak" and "illogical" they are.
What i'm asking is......what is it about them that's burrowed into your mind so deep that you're unable to leave them to their own devices?
Are they a legitimate threat to your current way of life? Does them succeeding really mean that you're losing?
Is it really impossible to let them have their victories in peace? What is it about trans furry activists making stupid ass arguments about voice chat that allows you to identify their opinions as nonsense, but then prevents you from ignoring them like you would, say, the crazy guy on the street, or the flat-earth society, or scientology, or whatever else???
Legit question, and anyone is free to answer.
(the irony is that, this question is something I myself am unable to let go LOL)
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H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Once one gets in they tend to bring their friends.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
To put it succinctly, I just think it's dangerous for this sort of insanity to be taken seriously. That's the biggest difference between this weirdo and the random crackhead yelling at you on the street. And in a business like games that's becoming increasingly infested with this sort of hyper-liberal, "everyone's opinion is valid" mindset, you're really starting to see the consequences of it. Without naming names, some studios are being anchored by a glut of dead weight diversity hires that really improve the company's image with jobless millennials who can't afford your games anyway.
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what a surprise.
LordKasual
“solution” is to self censor yourself.this idea that people should be quiet about what they feel, and not raise objections is the biggest load of shit I’ve ever seen on the internet. No, your Objections will never be addressed if you don’t voice them.
this isn’t a crackhead on the street. This is a corporate initiative that will influence the decisions Twitch makes in the future.
not everyone buys into your retarded theory of collectively putting our head in the sand
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sophnar0747
Member
PleaseWaitStation4
Banned
I think the Deer was fired!
JSoup
Banned
I think the Deer was fired!
There was a rumor of that going around, but it was supposedly all from a parody twitter account.
Thabass
Member
I usually treat ResetEra as a out of sight, out of mind kind of deal. Let them have their forum and ideologies. It doesn't bother me any. When I want to laugh, I'll just go into ResetEra thred on Communities here. Always good for a laugh.
ShinNL
Member
Actually, deer stuff, trans stuff, doesn't bother me.
But... you're making one crucial mistake.
"What i'm asking is......what is it about them that's burrowed into your mind so deep that you're unable to leave them to their own devices?"
First of all, this is not a very genuine question but a rather cynically stated rhetoric question. "Burrowed into the mind sooo deep?" Come on now.
Now that's out of the way, the actual answer to that question: it is and will become a personal problem when lies are spread as truth. I hate lies. There's a difference in being crazy in your own room and being crazy publicly and spreading this message publicly. I hate it when people spread lies, whether it's fueled by hate, delusion, misinformation, ignorance, brainwashing, money, whatever. It needs to be stopped, because their goal is to make others believe in their lies. If even one person believes that stuff, it means the world is 1 person more shittier than before.
Openly hating white straight males is not okay. I'm not trans, I'm not white, I'm not black. I feel like I'm in a quite neutral position and I can still clearly see it's .... basically the exact same type of hate as any type of racism / sexism. It's hypocritical and it's backwards. It's not progressive nor liberal. It's everything that is bad in our human history. Not saying a single word back and think it's okay for these people to spread their views, is exactly how things run wild.
I barely have an investment in this, I have my own personal wars with nutritional values. There it is more than clear that lies hurt people and people die from it, because there's so much misinformation. False nutritional values are being spread by common doctors and people with type 2 diabetes are being injected with insulin. Lies hurt the world and it will hit closer to home sooner than you think, with your loved ones starting to spread complete bullshit too.
In the end, I believe in science and logic and common sense and generally the safety and health of individuals and the avoidance of suffering and pain. I rate that higher than ideas being fueled by corporate interests or egocentric interests (which most of the arguments from Steph is being fueled by).
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RPSleon
Member
This is the music scene in the uk too. My friend got kicked from a show he was already at, just before going on stage, because someone took out of context screenshots of a conversation to paint him as a racist. You cant say anything that goes against anyones ideas. They try to be so inclusive, but dont realise theyre actually being worse, and more dangerous than the people they are banning.
TriSuit666
Banned
I think the Deer was fired!
No, Twitch came out with an official statement backing Steph and decrying the harrassement, and alleged doxxing.
Look, whether this person chooses to live her life as a Trans-Otherkin is absolutely nobody's business - it's not for me, but whatever, she has to look at herself in the mirror...
I'm more concerned about her racist and sexist remarks, comparing gamers to supremicists and smearing a large segment of Twitch's audience, along with her alleged links to the Ultra-Marxist and Stasi supporting ADL make her completely unsuitable for the position she's been gifted.
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cormack12
Gold Member
It's the same with all these people. They exist to basically shit on 'gamers' and establish themselves as bein 'better' and how everyone should aspire to be like them. When in fact a bit of digging shows them to be the most bitter, toxic individuals you ever see.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
It was a great one. Also love the line "a deer, the thing that gets hit by cars" lol
Kharnivore2099
Member
Not happy with all the insults being fired at the person in question, but this new member of the advisory council is way out of line and doesn't sound like they are right for the job.
A knee-jerk reactionary, that blanket labels whole groups of people and has some rather peculiar and umsubstantiated notions of what is "fair", doesn't seem like a reasonable candidate for an advisory group. What a mess all round, and Kotaku's heavily biased take on the whole debacle doesn't help anyone understand the situation at all.
Just blame it all on "gamers™" and move on, right? Such a bunch of hacks...
A knee-jerk reactionary, that blanket labels whole groups of people and has some rather peculiar and umsubstantiated notions of what is "fair", doesn't seem like a reasonable candidate for an advisory group. What a mess all round, and Kotaku's heavily biased take on the whole debacle doesn't help anyone understand the situation at all.
Just blame it all on "gamers™" and move on, right? Such a bunch of hacks...
#Phonepunk#
Banned
this is a common theme across all media these days.
if you are paid to write about movies, you will be complaining a lot about toxic movie fans.
if you are paid to write about sports, you will be complaining a lot about toxic sports fans.
if you are paid to write about games, you will be complaining a lot about toxic gamers.
etc.
it's like you are there to present the pure corporate ideal of a Good Consumer: someone who shuts up, never complains, has no opinions, and even acts as a sheepdog to keep others in line. they give you some authority and you instantly become the most loyal corporate lapdog ever.
the irony that gets missing, of course, is the jackass who has this giant platform and decides to use to berate others. somehow, that is not toxic at all! no! in fact, that's a position so morally pure that you can feel free shitting on other people! you calling millions of people bad people, with a giant corporate megaphone at your disposal, is totally fine. nothing wrong with that at all. but if someone posts a bad sentence on social media, oh boy, look out...
so you end up with things like this, the whitest palest man ever, whose job it is to play videogames, getting paid to call white people trash, to call men trash, and also to call people that play video games trash. irony on top of irony. when the objective fact is, he is literally all three of those things.
imo it's all part of corporate divide and conquer strategy. fans can no longer make demands or even reasonable criticisms towards the companies without being labeled as toxic. the gatekeepers are basically shutting the audience out of the conversation, and doing the work of those at the very top. congrats for being a massive sellout.
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Their is zero need for this council. No one life is in danger for streaming on twitch
raduque
Member
B-universe
Banned
No.
The individual directly responsible for an action is the individual who took it. In this case, the people directly responsible are Twitch board members. They decided to appoint this council. They picked out the members. They're responsible. They're to be held accountable.
The nominees who accepted the invitation are also to be held accountable for any future changes the council decides to uphold.
Really?
Pretending a problem doesn't exist is the easiest way to make it go away, you say? How's that working out for you?
Please take a look a Evergreen State College descent into chaos, as a case study for what happens when you ignore this sort of problems.
Let's set aside how you figured that percentage. Is being informed now deemed problematic? The problem isn't a certain individual saying and doing things and being rewarded for them - no, that doesn't seem to bother you - the problem is people letting others know about it, right?
Why call it "overly" if it isn't "inherently bad"?
It ceases to be innocuous the moment they try to curtail the freedom of others, which is exactly what the call to ban voice chat entails.
Let's grant it is toxic, for the sake of argument, and let's also acknowledge reporting systems and sanctions are already in place. Companies have done what they possibly can. Each individual must then decide if the fun that is to be had with voice chat outshines the chances of enduring what you'd describe as toxicity.
Exactly.
Which means there is an inherent risk. Life is risky. There is no such thing as a risk-free life. If, by your own admission, developers have done all they possibly can, then it is up to each individual to assess and mange the risk.
Letting people with dangerous irrational ideologies slide by and rise to power is a recipe for World Peace? You don't say.
It's not harmless. It is inherently irrational - under what criteria were the individuals given the position? - and detrimental - it rewards poor behaviour and authoritarian world views. It also sets a precedent, ready to be adopted by other companies which might mistake silence - your advice - for tacit approval.
The key difference is that these individuals have been give power over others. Why are you overlooking this key difference?
Twitch losing anybody's support is indeed inconsequential.
The aggregate, though, might not be. And since the aggregate is a statistical abstraction made of individual concrete actions, saying one is giving Twitch the middle finger is as far as one can go.
Your individual vote amounts to nothing but you still bother to vote, right?
Sure, there are tactical considerations.
What the never-ending storm in a teacup of social media shows is not that companies listen to the quiet demographic. If all the input they get is Woke drivel because others - following your wise advice - have decided to simply let them be and leave their views unchallenged, how surprised are you going to be when yet another iteration of this spurious alliance between corporations and Wolkism shows up in your newsfeed?
Essentially, there are only two ways one communicates with businesses. One involves one's wallet, the other one's keyboard. The former is more effective than the latter, but doesn't preclude it.
You can be sure if enough people quit Twitch, they will pay attention.
These people would be paying Twitch a favour by letting them know why they left.
The misrepresentation of any disagreement as hate is one of the tactics the authoritarians resort to. You're free to opt out of that tactict.
This can be viewed from two perspectives: in the realm of principles and in the realm of effectiveness. I think you're wrong on both accounts. Opposition to Wokism is sorely needed, as a matter of principle, and as a matter of practicality.
I thought your piece of advice was to ignore them.
As opposed to ignoring them?
This is a public forum. Unlike Era, this one doesn't have a political bent enforced by moderators. This means left-wingers, right-wingers and anyone in-between can chime in without fear of matters being settled administratively. What happens is that left-wing arguments tend to be scrutinized and they just can't stand the scrutiny.
Somehow when you don't have mods watching your back, making a compelling rational case mysteriously becomes much harder.
Yes, the shock, the horror, the wasted hours - starting a thread on a public forum, of all places!
Let me get this straight.
It is bizarre to complain about a decision that potentially affects the freedom of members of the Twitch community as whole, but it is not bizarre to complain about a post which hasn't the slightest effect on anyone's freedom?
That's precisely what's at stake here. People trying to curtail the freedom of others.
Which makes the need to raise one's dissenting voice even more glaring. Wasn't your advice to simply ignore the matter?
Yet your solution a while ago was to let that trend spread to other social media, such as Twitch.
This paragraph is very puzzling.
Resetera is part of reality and yet Wokism does run rampant there. Where exactly lies the seeming contradiction?
What makes Resetera stand apart is its authoritarian moderation.
They're my adversaries. I don't underestimate my adversaries. I don't pretend they're a group of part-time leftists having tea outdoors. Developers go there. I wouldn't want them to get the impression ResetEra-ers opinions are unanimous, or even consensual.
I want to defeat my adversaries.
Definitely.
When they influence developers - and how easy it would be to show that they do - then I definitely seek to counter their influence.
Why are you struggling with this?
ResetEra members get to say whatever they want. I'm not out to close the forum. Me debunking their positions is me exercising the exact same right you're affording them.
When said nonsense is on the cusp of becoming letter of the Twitch Law, the matter can no longer be simply framed as eccentric opinions.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
Ignoring this kind of shit is how the liberal arts universities turned into worthless shit holes churning out cultural poison over the past few decades.
TriSuit666
Banned
Im from Texas and I use y'all unironically, cause its just the way I speak.
But then doesn't read my follow-up post. smh.
Caffeine
Member
A Note from Emmett about the Safety Advisory Council
Last week, we announced the formation of our Safety Advisory Council, a group of online safety experts and Twitch creators we brought together to advise on issues related to trust and safety at Twitch. We’ve since seen a lot of discussion and questions, as well as some concerns, and I want to...
blog.twitch.tv
JSoup
Banned
A Note from Emmett about the Safety Advisory Council
Last week, we announced the formation of our Safety Advisory Council, a group of online safety experts and Twitch creators we brought together to advise on issues related to trust and safety at Twitch. We’ve since seen a lot of discussion and questions, as well as some concerns, and I want to...
That's....strangely reassuring, even considering it's PR speak.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
otm. i live in GA and have said yall my entire life and am not changing it bc some jackasses suddenly decided to try and sound black for woke points.Im from Texas and I use y'all unironically, cause its just the way I speak.
ffs its like they are trying to steal our culture. "you can't say y'all cos these idiots say it". well i said it before they did! fuck them
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B-universe
Banned
A Note from Emmett about the Safety Advisory Council
Last week, we announced the formation of our Safety Advisory Council, a group of online safety experts and Twitch creators we brought together to advise on issues related to trust and safety at Twitch. We’ve since seen a lot of discussion and questions, as well as some concerns, and I want to...
Great.
Let's go through this, shall we?
What were the criteria for choosing certain Twitch creators over others?
So the criterion was overtly disagreeing with Twitch internal teams, was that it? Two paragraphs in and this has been the sole cited reason.
Fantastic.
Genuine diversity.
Please breakdown;
Percentage of Libertarians.
Percentage centrists.
Percentage of monotheists.
Percentage of free speech absolutists.
Percentage of left-wing council members.
Again, please explain why each individual was picked.
Following? Controversial opinions? This seems a verbose way to avoid answering the elephant-in-the-room question: why were these people appointed?
Diverse in what sense?
I mean if Twitter, say, had moderated in such a way as to purge and cast conservatives and libertarians out and then decided to appoint a Safety council, they'd still be able to call it diverse simply by appealing to minute differences of opinion among council members, or not even that, by appealing to irrelevant cosmetic differences, wouldn't they?.
Diversity often seems to mean fundamental unison in what matters the most - worldview - and folkloric assortment in what matters the least - superficial or irrelevant traits.
An odd assumption also seems to be permeating these discussions: all LGBTQ individuals think alike by virtue of having been arbitrarily pigeonholed according to their sexuality. The irony in presuming one's worldview based solely on these traits doesn't go unnoticed but is what helps explain the tick-box mentality that seems to preside: The council has one gay member, therefore gays are being heard. So being gay uniquely determines your fundamental outlook on life, huh?
The gobsmacking irony.
Which is meaningless because if they do get to write the moderation rulebook, then they will have far greater power than any individual moderator will have ever held.
That's true up until the point their opinions are poured into the letter of the law.
Criteria, breakdown,
For all the talk about diversity, the author is being extremely cagey about what he means by it.
How about inviting in people with fundamentally different views on what it means for Twitch to become a better place?
Misconstruing all criticism as harassment wouldn't bode well for the council. There's a tradition Twitch could repudiate, for starters.
Would, say, calling gamers "White supremacists" based on the pitch of the voice of a few of them qualify as any of those? Does that sound like the sort of behaviour that would advise appointing them?
Criteria and breakdown, if you please.
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TriSuit666
Banned
Not really, it's just a reaction to the 'harrasement'.
Twitch got exactly what it wanted.
Silvawuff
Member
I don't disagree -- I don't understand why Twitch can't moderate itself instead of picking some weird arbitrary council to tell them how to do this. Whatever the case, this was handled poorly.
sevoro
Member
So by that logic.
If you ignore racism, you support racism. If you don't like racism, you fight it.
If you ignore poverty, you support poverty. If you don't like poverty you fight it.
(I'm not saying you're in support or against for any of these, just pointing out the logic of this thinking)
I don't think this idea of yours would work if everyone had the same mindset, world would be filled with people trying to impose their own views, that usually culminates into violence. Which is why when some people ignore something, they do just that and are in neither support or against. People are simple yet complex creatures.
I for one just think this whole thing will blow-over and it will be another footnote in the history of extreme trans people vs the majority. So ignoring it is what I will do. I find the whole banning of voice chat remark to be stupid and not welcome, but nothing is gonna happen, this won't build up, it will always remain in a bubble. Just look at ERA for what a bubble looks like.
Needlecrash
Member
This is the same person who says that most gamers are white supremacists, voice chat is unfair and if you're a white male, you're pretty much cancelled while having a deergasm on stream.
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU TWITCH???
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU TWITCH???
Grinchy
Banned
Aside from all the weird bullshit, the worst video for me is probably the, "I have power and you should be afraid of me" video.
livestreamfails.com
That alone should exclude someone from being put on any kind of council, even if there's no real power in it. Because we all know that if John Doe here wants some "problematic streamer" banned, or wants an emote banned, or anything like that, the second it brings it up at any kind of gathering, the rest of the "council" will feel compelled to at least pretend to agree.
LIVESTREAMFAILS - Watch your favorite Streamers fail!
LIVESTREAMFAILS - Watch your favorite Streamers fail!
That alone should exclude someone from being put on any kind of council, even if there's no real power in it. Because we all know that if John Doe here wants some "problematic streamer" banned, or wants an emote banned, or anything like that, the second it brings it up at any kind of gathering, the rest of the "council" will feel compelled to at least pretend to agree.
JSoup
Banned
You mean it's kinda like that time where that exact thing happened at the dawn of humanity and has gone on, uninterrupted, till the current day and will continue uninterrupted till humanity is no more?
InterMusketeer
Member
Sounds like these members will just be asked to give their opinions on a variety of subjects behind closed doors, with which Twitch might do something to improve safety on their platform.
My cynical mind expects they won't do a damn thing with any of this advice, and they'll just use the existence of the council to pretend they are listening to people.
sevoro
Member
Not everyone wants to fight you know. I think I should have made my point clearer. I still think this is all overblown and nothing will come out of it. No changes to Twitch will be made.
My point was that if everyone wanted to fight there would be no world, not that fighting for ideals doesn't exist.
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Hypereides
Member
EDIT: comment withdrawn.
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Screamer-RSA
Member
The inclusion of nut jobs on any type of advisory group makes any advise coming from a them useless. Defeating the purpose of said advisory group.
This deer man has been going on about voice chat since 2018 (polygon article he wrote I think). Just because he cant't use voice chat out of fear people will hear he is a man, it must be taken away for everyone else.
Shin
Banned
Hit refresh to load the vid since embedding isn't supported by GAF.
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JSoup
Banned
Hit refresh to load the vid since embedding isn't supported by GAF.
Oh, SankakuComplex. I remember when you were an interesting news site reporting on Japanese new stories most people would otherwise never know of, all while being splattered with porn adverts. Now you're still splattered with porn adverts and every other article is something about censoring loli porn. Times change.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Hit refresh to load the vid since embedding isn't supported by GAF.
The only way to have a level playing field is to not have... yep, that's classic leftist crap right there. If we're all scrabbling in the dirt we're all equal.
Arun1910
Member
This man has absolutely no intention of creating a safe space for everyone, it's clear as day. I have no idea why he is on this board. Twitch are fucking idiots.
A safety board should be about including everyone, not about just including Deer people and attacking cis-white males. It's a joke.
A safety board should be about including everyone, not about just including Deer people and attacking cis-white males. It's a joke.
GeorgPrime
Banned
Our whole life is about fighting, and by that I don't just mean physical violence
- We have to fight every day not to be caught up in our laziness.
- We have to fight every day to keep going no matter what happens in life.
- If we get sick or anything, even if we lose an arm or a leg, we have to fight even harder than others to keep going.
- We have to fight every day to not have all the bullshit in the world getting into us.
- We have to fight every day to keep stupid and toxic people away from us who just use up your energy. (and iam a person that literally attracts such people)
The moment you say "I don't want to fight" in any part of your life is the moment you lose something.
So let me pick up your example about racism with a quote from Martin Niemöller, an important Lutheran pastor in Germany:
-------------
When the Nazis took the Communists, I kept silent; I was not a Communist.
When they took the trade unionists, I kept silent; I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews, I kept silent; I wasn't a Jew.
When they took me, there was no one left to protest.
---------------
Keeping silent is almost the same than ignoring it.
And what about poverty?
See what happens if you ignore it from a political view. You just accept it and then you end up being overrun by hundreds of thousands poor people that live and shit on your streets like you can see in some american cities nowdays. So you have to fight it... not with violence but with solutions.
If i had stopped fighting bullshit around me in every part of my life, i would be already dead by now. (that includes getting rid of toxic family members and friends as well)
So the moment someone comes up to me and tells me that he seriously sees himself as a deer is the moment i will tell him to piss off and live in the woods and to never bother me again with that bullshit.
For me that guy/girl/whatever believing that its an animal doesnt even have any realistic views on what its like being an animal at all. He just follows a semi romantic view that he thinks is cute but its at the same time out of touch with reality to a point that it may kill the person sooner or later.
And thats... what people want to be the "new normal" or thats something thats need to be inclusive? I dont think so.
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