Twitter Bans Misgendering & Deadnaming Transgender Community

Jul 5, 2018
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Not really. The whole "genders are a construct" thing has included names people and names of objects for awhile, it's only the former that's becoming less common.

And the cause wasn't because people changed their mind. From what I can see it's media. If Alex was labeled for men than the female transgender likely would have kept Alex. to be honest. Kind of like the name Jesse which has no gender association.

In fact I notice that the most famous trans people get to, through the media, dictate the rules for other trans to follow. That seems to be counter productive honestly.
Tbh...why does this matter so much to you? Answer that...to me it's not really important if they want to change their name...I respect people's decisions.
I don't know your experience with this..but unless you were everywhere scouring the web..etc etc Constantly looking info up on this....you really can't say for sure...just like me

Mate its you don't follow history...the powerful few control the weak many and if the weak follow...well thats on them not me or you

Edit: I dunno why so many people try to act like perfect experts on matters...the information we can gather as 1 human is very small compared to the massive pool of knowledge.
Maybe the places you got your info from was just 1 of the several massive different sources of info...and in some of those you missed the changes I mentioned were happening there...
What we can know and the full truth are much different and theirs no shame in not being 100% sure
 
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Tbh...why does this matter so much to you? Answer that...to me it's not really important if they want to change their name...I respect people's decisions.
I can reverse this question to them on a variety of other subjects. That's not a real question.

This is the kind of thing they often due to shut down discussion but if they don't have discussion how can they possibly get anywhere or change peoples minds?

The aggressive tactics of forcing it down and penalizing people through laws and politics is not working for them.
 
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Likes: zenspider
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I can reverse this question to them on a variety of other subjects. That's not a real question.

This is the kind of thing they often due to shut down discussion but if they don't have discussion how can they possibly get anywhere or change peoples minds?

The aggressive tactics of forcing it down and penalizing people through laws and politics is not working for them.
I ask a question to gain knowledge...what drives you...and you accuse me of being aggressive? I have no clue what you think...thats why I ask
 
Aug 24, 2016
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I ask a question to gain knowledge...what drives you...and you accuse me of being aggressive? I have no clue what you think...thats why I ask
Not you, but the community in general, yes, is aggressive and loves trying to kill discussions. Yes it's an issue, and yes it's causing problems and backlash.

You might not but you're a small minority. These discussion are important to have.
 
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Because the only reason why they wouldn't want to be called Alex, is because Alex is labled as a male name. But if gender is pointless why not kill that? It contradicts the whole narrative gender is a construct. Names are labels, they aren't based on sex.
But no? That's not the case at all it's because they like that name over the name Alex. Alex is already used for both male and females so that point you're making is moot.
 
Likes: Ailynn
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Not you, but the community in general, yes, is aggressive and loves trying to kill discussions. Yes it's an issue, and yes it's causing problems and backlash.

You might not but you're a small minority. These discussion are important to have.
That's a valid concern. I'd still like to keep in mind somewhere on another forum the opposite is true.
I'd say to apologize If I came off rude in this discussion..I tend to get heated and make an ass outta myself...entering a post too quick just to reply doesn't help, Tend to make edits longer then the initial post)
I always go into conversation hoping to convince people...but my passion tend to blind me and do more harm..I spend too much time apologizing afterwords.
In regards to our debate, I'll leave it here as I don't find myself adequate enough to convince you and I don't see anything wrong with your take.
 
Likes: zenspider
Oct 27, 2017
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I don't understand the dead naming thing. If gender is a construct why do you have to change your name fro Alex to Ailynn if gender doesn't matter? In fact wouldn't that make the whole issue of engendering invalid and lead to less conflict?
I could be wrong but I think gender does matter for trans people like @Ailynn and I am not sure she thinks gender is a social construct. I think gender is a reality of who she is and identifies as. I don't think many people at all think of gender as a social construct. I don't think of it like such, I think it is a reality of who I am and I think it is the same for most other people too.


Now, dual spirit unicorn eagle's on the other hand ...
 
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That's a valid concern. I'd still like to keep in mind somewhere on another forum the opposite is true.
I'd say to apologize If I came off rude in this discussion..I tend to get heated and make an ass outta myself...entering a post too quick just to reply doesn't help, Tend to make edits longer then the initial post)
I always go into conversation hoping to convince people...but my passion tend to blind me and do more harm..I spend too much time apologizing afterwords.
In regards to our debate, I'll leave it here as I don't find myself adequate enough to convince you and I don't see anything wrong with your take.
That's cool. I know this may be a touchy subject for you so I figured you were not coming after me just because.
 
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I apologize that I haven't weighed in on this topic yet. I've been a bit cautious to enter into heavier conversations lately as they can be a bit exhausting for me. Recently I was brought into a fight here that I wasn't involved in that was prolonged rather unnecessarily for multiple pages/days...and my character was subsequently hit with the Uncle Tom trope.

I'm a mediator and peacekeeper at heart, and I don't see that as someone being subservient or traitorous.


I understand the hurt that can come from people being uncaring or discourteous. Still, when we fight back in anger, people tend to become defensive and hostile in return. Both sides may see the other as the bully and feel that it is their own personal civic duty to ruthlessly fight back and show the world how they alone are right and just and that the other side deserves to be left groveling in the dust a defeated mess.

No one wins in these needless fights. All it causes is further resentment and animosity.


I wish more people would learn from Daryl Davis. When actual respect is given toward those we may deem our adversaries...then empathy, understanding, and actual friendship can grow...thus ending the hatred and allowing love to grow in the world, as it should.



This is why we can't simply shut down dialogue. If a child is forced into behavior without understanding, they may rebel against that behavior as they grow older. This doesn't change with adults. We NEED dialogue so that we can hope to eventually understand each other.

I'm all for people being courteous and absolutely would love it if people would be respectful and refrain from intentionally misgendering someone or calling them by their old name for the sake of trolling or deliberate harassment. From experience, I know how hurtful these things can be...especially when the target is already emotionally in a bad place. Bullying is never a good thing, even when the intended target is thought to be a bully themselves. Still, I know from a lot of experience that accidental misgendering and 'deadnaming' can happen all the time. I still experience this with my family...and even though I know they do it unintentionally and understand how it can be emotionally hurtful to me, I know that it is accidental and that it doesn't mean that they love me any less.

(As a transgender woman myself, I'm embarrassed to admit it...but even I have done this before accidentally with others.)


I believe Twitter is just trying to cut down on any obvious ongoing harassment, and it doesn't seem to be a zero-tolerance policy. People can and will make mistakes, but so long as people are playing nice and trying to remain courteous, all should be okay.


Honestly, I don't understand the difficulty some find in speaking with each other in a courteous and professional manner in the first place. I can reason how some might find some strange delight in the freedom of speaking crassly toward others anonymously online, but how do they not see the problems that can arise from doing so publicly with their name and face for all to see? The practices of Human Resources exist for a reason.

Sadly, it seems more and more of the world is subconsciously contracting some variant of covert Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Far too many people have a grandiose sense of their own intellect and self-worth...quick to bully and abuse others while also content in playing the victim.
Thank you for your openness and for taking the time to articulate your thoughts. We can all learn from this.
 
Likes: Ailynn

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
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“But it’s about ethics in game journalism!”
Any respectable research done would show that a large portion of GamerGate was indeed about ethics in game journalism. Of course, the very same journalists being called out decided to focus entirely on a small segment and make it seem like a hate campaign. However, this can be continued in the GamerGate thread that we have here on the site. I highly suggest you read it and do some actual research.

Well, at least you are honest with transphobia, I see.
Nothing stated was transphobic. Do not make such harsh claims so lightly, it is pathetic.
 
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Had to read the article to find out.

Basically using the name they discarded intentionally to hurt them
That's what happens when you want people to lie for your own personal satisfaction. I get transpeople didn't do anything wrong, but they should also respect everyone else's opinion. Just don't force people to do anything. Don't force people to call you something they don't want to call you and don't force transpeople to not live their lives the way they want to live them.
 
Likes: Shaqazooloo
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That's what happens when you want people to lie for your own personal satisfaction. I get transpeople didn't do anything wrong, but they should also respect everyone else's opinion. Just don't force people to do anything. Don't force people to call you something they don't want to call you and don't force transpeople to not live their lives the way they want to live them.
Nobody’s forcing snyone to do anything. Transpeople are asking people not to be an insulting dick but apparently that’s way too much.
 
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Ailynn

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My personal solution for misgendering and incorrect pronoun use is to just say "that person", I will not be pressured into using your preferred words. This avoids insulting them and also allows me freedom to not use the language they demand.
I have one family member who is still uncomfortable calling me by my newer legal name or feminine pronouns, so she calls me "Beloved." It's not ideal, but I'm thankful she at least respects my feelings enough to avoid the old alternatives.
 
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I have one family member who is still uncomfortable calling me by my newer legal name or feminine pronouns, so she calls me "Beloved." It's not ideal, but I'm thankful she at least respects my feelings enough to avoid the old alternatives.
I have less of a problem with names since anyone can have basically anything as a name and legally change it at will, and it's obviously deliberately insulting to use someone's previous name after they've changed it legally. In private when discussing a trans individual with friends, I always just refer to them as what I knew them as before, but I will respect their new name when speaking to them. But I just try to avoid gendered pronouns entirely.
 

i_am_ben

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OK. So now that I've pointed out the logic and reason used, instead of, say, exaggeration and misrepresentation, the best response is a flimsy dismissal?
I can assure you that I'm not overthinking things. I'm applying a modicum of thought and pointing out the glaringly obvious.

Anyone who considers that to be 'overthinking' is making a very clear point. Just not the one they intended.
When you read too much into the use of 'people' then, yes, you're overthinking things.
 

PKM

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Like it or not it's a private company and I cant argue with it.

I dont agree with any type of control based on speech (unless it calls for harm) but it's a private entity so they can do as this wish.

I think block features are enough of a safe guard. You should be able to control the voices your subjected to but erasing them from the platform isnt a good look.

For all the 'Fascism' labels placed on certain people I find it odd those same people want to control and shut down so many.

Until a true 'free speech' platform is invented (that encompasses payment systems, video, social media etc..) we are just going to have to live with what we have that's controlled by interest groups.
 
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Like it or not it's a private company and I cant argue with it.

I dont agree with any type of control based on speech (unless it calls for harm) but it's a private entity so they can do as this wish.

I think block features are enough of a safe guard. You should be able to control the voices your subjected to but erasing them from the platform isnt a good look.

For all the 'Fascism' labels placed on certain people I find it odd those same people want to control and shut down so many.

Until a true 'free speech' platform is invented (that encompasses payment systems, video, social media etc..) we are just going to have to live with what we have that's controlled by interest groups.
A private company that has flipped the definition of public domain on its head. Free speech is not just the freedom to express ideas without government interference; it’s the freedom to express ideas in the public domain without interference from the government.
 
Likes: Nymphae
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Why would you directly equate a private company creating a policy to prevent consistent, targeted harassment of people dealing with sensitive issues, with the removal of "freedom to express ideas" without interference from the government?
 
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When you read too much into the use of 'people' then, yes, you're overthinking things.
I simply used it in the same context you provided in the first place.
This is a wonderful example of the mentality of double-standards that underpin these arguments.

And that's before we return to the point that continually using petty dismissals isn't the same as actually addressing what was said.
You've employed that tactic a number of times when responding, so you've made it abundantly clear you aren't intending to engage - merely trying to dismiss.
 
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Ailynn

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Thank you for your openness and for taking the time to articulate your thoughts. We can all learn from this.
Thank you very much for your kind words! :messenger_smiling:


I don't understand the dead naming thing. If gender is a construct why do you have to change your name fro Alex to Ailynn if gender doesn't matter? In fact wouldn't that make the whole issue of engendering invalid and lead to less conflict?
As @sahlberg mentioned, I don't view a sense of gender as a social construct. Sure, there are certain societal traits or associations typically seen as either feminine or masculine, but they are not universal and can be stereotypical in nature. I know in certain circles, it is unpopular to say that the brains of men and women are different...but the fact is, there are irrefutable physical differences between the sexes...and evidence that the brains of transgender people vary from the typical formations of their birth sex, brought on by abnormal prenatal hormone exposure. (In my case, by the synthetic nonsteroidal estrogen Diethylstilbestrol).

As far as why many trans people change their names, I suppose it depends on the person and the name. "Alex" is an easy one, as it is often used for both sexes. However, some names...such as the first and middle names I used to have...are not. The legal name I have now is something chosen very carefully and has a deep personal meaning for me in many ways. If you would like, I would be happy to talk about it in more detail through a private conversation.
 
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Likes: matt404au
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My personal solution for misgendering and incorrect pronoun use is to just say "that person", I will not be pressured into using your preferred words. This avoids insulting them and also allows me freedom to not use the language they demand.
My solutions is for trans to deal with the fact that people CANT and shouldnt live with the 'missgendering' filter always on.
People minds and behaviour gets more enclosed with time and age, and the brain wires itself to adapt to the enviroment.... while growing.

You just cant go to adults and tell them 'rewire your brain'. It just doest work that way.

If trans pretend the world to change and for everyone to just assume new pronouns... is gonna be a lot more frustrating than just assume people may missgender accidentally without any derogatory intent.
Just fucking get over missgendering if it's not intentional. It's noone's fault. Try to be happy focusing on more positive things you actually have control over.

EDIT
Sorry, I dont wanna sound rude. It's just that this topics triggers me a bit. No offense and nothing bad intended, really!
 
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Likes: matt404au
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Why would you directly equate a private company creating a policy to prevent consistent, targeted harassment of people dealing with sensitive issues, with the removal of "freedom to express ideas" without interference from the government?
But my point is that the intent of free speech laws is no longer being met due to technological change.
 
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Twitter is crap and will get regulated or collapse and go bankrupt over the next decade, i honestly dont care what happens first i only care that sjw control disappears and dies out.
Twitter is not the problem. The problem is that the platform gets so much attention for some reason. If no one would report on what some tards say there people wouldn't even care. News platforms are the problem.
 
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That's what happens when you want people to lie for your own personal satisfaction. I get transpeople didn't do anything wrong, but they should also respect everyone else's opinion. Just don't force people to do anything. Don't force people to call you something they don't want to call you and don't force transpeople to not live their lives the way they want to live them.

So if your name is John in real life, I can call you Bob?

“Don’t forced me to call you something I don’t want to!”

I mean it’s not like transgender people face severe discrimination in many aspects of life, let’s give them a hard time about names and pronouns, something we can all easily accommodate and do to make them feel just a little better more secure

You’ll either address people how they want or be an asshole. Your choice, but it’s such a lame hill to plant your flag on, Hope you feel good about it
 
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So if your name is John in real life, I can call you Bob?

“Don’t forced me to call you something I don’t want to!”

I mean it’s not like transgender people face severe discrimination in many aspects of life, let’s give them a hard time about names and pronouns, something we can all easily accommodate and do to make them feel just a little better more secure

You’ll either address people how they want or be an asshole. Your choice, but it’s such a lame hill to plant your flag on, Hope you feel good about it
My pronoun is Your Majesty and you must refer to me by this at all times otherwise you’re an asshole and a bigot by your own rules.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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My pronoun is Your Majesty and you must refer to me by this at all times otherwise you’re an asshole and a bigot by your own rules.
Yes your majesty

Was that hard? I’ll call you anything you want, why do I give a shit?

And even though I know your making a joke of it, a name change is not some joke for a transgender person, it’s their new identity
 
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So if your name is John in real life, I can call you Bob?

“Don’t forced me to call you something I don’t want to!”

I mean it’s not like transgender people face severe discrimination in many aspects of life, let’s give them a hard time about names and pronouns, something we can all easily accommodate and do to make them feel just a little better more secure

You’ll either address people how they want or be an asshole. Your choice, but it’s such a lame hill to plant your flag on, Hope you feel good about it
I think most of us could give a shit what you or some random person calls us and I certainly wouldn't want you to be banned over it.

See this is the issue you can't say "we're just like everyone else" and then have rules and lawns that apply specifically to you, if you force everyone to walk around eggshells around you people are going to treat you diferently.

Btw guys call each other girl names all the fucking time, is banter bannable?
 
Likes: matt404au
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Yes your majesty

Was that hard? I’ll call you anything you want, why do I give a shit?

And even though I know your making a joke of it, a name change is not some joke for a transgender person, it’s their new identity
Excuse me did you just lower case my pronoun? That’s a microaggression.

Also if you ever forget to call me Your Majesty in future, you’re off to the gulags.
 
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Yes your majesty

Was that hard? I’ll call you anything you want, why do I give a shit?

And even though I know your making a joke of it, a name change is not some joke for a transgender person, it’s their new identity
That last part is the part they don't seem to understand. That or they simply don't care. To them its just a name, but to a transgender individual its everything. Its every hardship, problem, roadblock, and severed relationship that led them to where they are now. They most likely went through personal hell to get to where they could choose a new name and be who they wanna be. And people can't stop being assholes long enough to even pretend to care or understand. Its disgusting and its honestly depressing.


The good news though is the world is getting alot smaller for those individuals who choose to be transphobic or homophobic. Or even racist or sexist for that matter. Its easier than ever before to name and shame people who treat other people like crap. 10 years ago this kind of behavior may not have been a big deal, but these days businesses can and will fire you for saying racist, sexist, homophobic etc etc things online or in public and its brought to their attention. And social media platforms can and will ban you for similar behavior. So at the very least we are finally getting to the point where these people will have no choice but to keep their hate bottled up inside or they will face real world consequences for it.
 
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Likes: Akira1983
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I think most of us could give a shit what you or some random person calls us and I certainly wouldn't want you to be banned over it.

See this is the issue you can't say "we're just like everyone else" and then have rules and lawns that apply specifically to you, if you force everyone to walk around eggshells around you people are going to treat you diferently.

Btw guys call each other girl names all the fucking time, is banter bannable?
No? Because straight cis males have never been a marginalized group?

So if you want to joke around with your pal at work and call him “Sally” because your making fun of him, I don’t give a shit

But if you are purposefully misnaming a transgender person out of ignorance or hatred, you should be banned. Not sure why any platform should feel obligated to allow hateful speech to a group which has been historically targeted for harassment

This is the same stupid argument as “why is there no white history month” and about how you don’t see color, we are all equal and should be treated the same

No

Unless you are going to ignore context and history behind the groups being given “special treatment”
 
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No? Because straight cis males have never been a marginalized group?

So if you want to joke around with your pal at work and call him “Sally” because your making fun of him, I don’t give a shit

But if you are purposefully misnaming a transgender person out of ignorance or hatred, you should be banned. Not sure why any platform should feel obligated to allow hateful speech to a group which has been historically targeted for harassment

This is the same stupid argument as “why is there no white history month” and about how you don’t see color, we are all equal and should be treated the same

No

Unless you are going to ignore context and history behind the groups being given “special treatment”
Is this a "it's not racism if it's against white people" and "it's not sexist if it's against males" post?

Racism is racism, sexism is sexism, hate is hate. Doesn't matter your color, sex, or sexual inclination.
 
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That last part is the part they don't seem to understand. That or they simply don't care. To them its just a name, but to a transgender individual its everything. Its every hardship, problem, roadblock, and severed relationship that led them to where they are now. They most likely went through personal hell to get to where they could choose a new name and be who they wanna be. And people can't stop being assholes long enough to even pretend to care or understand. Its disgusting and its honestly depressing.


The good news though is the world is getting alot smaller for those individuals who choose to be transphobic or homophobic. Or even racist or sexist for that matter. Its easier than ever before to name and shame people who treat other people like crap. 10 years ago this kind of behavior may not have been a big deal, but these days businesses can and will fire you for saying racist, sexist, homophobic etc etc things online or in public and its brought to their attention. And social media platforms can and will ban you for similar behavior. So at the very least we are finally getting to the point where these people will have no choice but to keep their hate bottled up inside or they will face real world consequences for it.
No, it’s you who doesn’t understand that my right to choose my own words and hence thoughts is more important than your desire to be called by your preferred words.
 
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No? Because straight cis males have never been a marginalized group?

So if you want to joke around with your pal at work and call him “Sally” because your making fun of him, I don’t give a shit

But if you are purposefully misnaming a transgender person out of ignorance or hatred, you should be banned. Not sure why any platform should feel obligated to allow hateful speech to a group which has been historically targeted for harassment

This is the same stupid argument as “why is there no white history month” and about how you don’t see color, we are all equal and should be treated the same

No

Unless you are going to ignore context and history behind the groups being given “special treatment”

"we're all equal and should be treater the same. No"

Really? I'd I'd figure the awnser is yes, youre essentially calling for discrimination at this point I hope you understand that.

You can't correct histories injustices be being injust to other people now, that's a fucking retarded stand to take.

All you're doing is creating more hatred between people if you do this and you'll be correcting past injustices for eternity and you'll be doing it by hurting people who had nothing to do with it
 
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i_am_ben

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I simply used it in the same context you provided in the first place.
This is a wonderful example of the mentality of double-standards that underpin these arguments.

And that's before we return to the point that continually using petty dismissals isn't the same as actually addressing what was said.
You've employed that tactic a number of times when responding, so you've made it abundantly clear you aren't intending to engage - merely trying to dismiss.
I can confirm I am dismissing your concerns about my use of 'people'. You're reading way too much into an off-hand comment.
 
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No? Because straight cis males have never been a marginalized group?
Not true and i literally can prove it with what people like you are saying right now.
Also newsflash every group in history has done shit so the enire focus on "Muh white devil" is basically just bullshit to begin with for example the arab slave trade didnt care much if you were white or black you got fucked either way. And anyone saying "yeah but muh white devil hurr durr" yeah say that to some south African farmers you fool.
 
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A private company that has flipped the definition of public domain on its head. Free speech is not just the freedom to express ideas without government interference; it’s the freedom to express ideas in the public domain without interference from the government.
Public domain is a copyright term. For a work to be in the public domain it means it is no longer protected by copyright, such as the works of Shakespeare. It has nothing to do with free speech.

It seems you’re saying that free speech means not only the right to express your opinion, but to have it disseminated to a wide audience, in this case using other people’s property. That is a novel concept and has never been the case.
 
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"we're all equal and should be treater the same. No"

Really? I'd I'd figure the awnser is yes, your essentially calling for discrimination at this point I hope you understand that.

You can't correct histories injustices be being injust to other people now, that's a fucking retarded stand to take.

All you're doing is creating more hatred between people if you do this and you'll be correcting past injustices for eternity and you'll be doing it by hurting people who had nothing to do with it
I can gaurantee you no hardships are befalling white people for policies put in place to try and create more equality for POC

I can also guarantee you no hardships are being placed on non transgender people by policies attempting to limit harassment of transgender

I had nothing to do with slavery, Jim Crow laws or segregation that has affected blacks people for hundreds of years in America, but what does that matter? It’s not like the effects still aren’t felt. It’s on me to get over myself and realize it’s more important we try and make up for past injustices than “well I didn’t do it... hurr durr “