Two Apex Legends characters are LGBTQ, say EA and Respawn

Dec 3, 2018
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True, but unfortunately a good part of them make them ...
Technically, they embed themselves as community managers or in HR, game journalists or moderators. Rather than being developers themselves, they control what the developers see and hear, and what is allowed to be said or thought about a product. Shame and the fear of reprisal are their greatest tools. They are not developers (for long) because they are capable at social control and little else.

There are few people in this thread actually trying to defend this game’s tokenism, but plenty who are trying to shame those for being against it.
 

Redneckerz

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I think it is weird that they announce that some characters are gay, like they are announcing a great feature to sell the game.

In reality i think majority do not even care, if the game is fun they will just play and dont bother with this at all.
That's my point. They are announcing this so that you have to think twice about it whereas if it was just silently introduced in a biography with each character, people would just take it for granted.

The announcement is what makes this dubious. Its the same with the BFV trailers, taking a specific position as to why minorities should be held to special authority. No, they don't.

Call me a misogynist. But i don't like killing women in games. I feel they are completely out of place being in combat positions.

Sorry i had to. :p
 
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Likes: cormack12
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I believe this was not accidental, they intentionaly made the game with characters that fill diversity checkboxes and will continue to do so. Imo in doing this the game have far less variety than Overwatch or Fortnite for example.
Making the only white male character literally toxic feels a bit aggressive to me. It’s a bit like making the only black character love grape soda and watermelon. If a game did that, you wouldn’t consider it okay.

And Star Wars movies have many problems, but being a "SJW movie" is not one of them.
I know an entire internet that would disagree.

In reality i think majority do not even care, if the game is fun they will just play and dont bother with this at all.
So you would not have a problem with a female character who says “I’m just angry because I’m on my period”? It doesn’t affect gameplay either. The idea that you can’t understand why people are upset about this betrays an unhealthy double standard that it is okay to behave in a racist, aggressive way towards white men but not others.
 
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Who cares? It doesn't effect me one way or the other, make your characters whatever you want, but announcing this shit just seems like pandering.
 
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Incorrect, Neogaf is way more enjoyable now all the SJWs fled to the dreadful little island they are currently residing, attacking their own if anyone dares slip up and say something like Caitlyn Jenner isn't a beautiful hero.

You might need to join them, people arent interested callout posts and playing the victim.

That's a short sighted point of view if you don't want to be in an echo chamber full of like minded people who become more extreme over time i.e. what happened to GAF in the past. This forum is doomed if it's just going to be people complaining about "sjws". Following your logic anyone who thinks anti-sjw's mirror the hypersensitivity they're complaining about should tell you to go post on gamergate forums where they complain about this sort of thing all day in the least charitable way possible to pat each other on the back and conveniently avoid the merits of any opposing views.
 
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Making the only white male character literally toxic feels a bit aggressive to me. It’s a bit like making the only black character love grape soda and watermelon. If a game did that, you wouldn’t consider it okay.

I know an entire internet that would disagree.

So you would not have a problem with a female character who says “I’m just angry because I’m on my period”? It doesn’t affect gameplay either. The idea that you can’t understand why people are upset about this betrays an unhealthy double standard that it is okay to behave in a racist, aggressive way towards white men but not others.
I dont agree with the direction they are going with the characters because it is forced diversity just for the sake of filling a checkbox. And i understand your argument about the toxic hero, it is agressive.

But honestly when im playing the game i really dont care about this.

As for Star Wars, it is not the entire internet that thinks Star Wars is a SJW movie, there are plenty of people who enjoyed the movies and dont say It is SJW, others just criticize the movies for plot reasons (myself).

I think it is unfair in saying i have double standards after reading my arguments, i made myself quite clear that i against what this game is doing with the characters. Now just because i disagree with this does not mean i will stop playing or have less fun with the game since this does not affect the plot or gameplay.
 
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I wanted to add more, but honestly the only people who'd actually care are those hammering for more inclusion. It doesn't effect gameplay so no one else is going to care.
 
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Honestly, at this point, they all just feel like marketing ploys, and they work apparently. So I guess I can't really blame them. With Overwatch, I didn't question it because they were so lore invested with each character and just kind of slid it in. But Call of Duty, and this... I don't know, it just feels forced.

In the long run, can we just play games without questioning a character's sexual orientation? Does it matter THAT much?
 

AV

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    AV

Every time something like this happens I only know about it because people post it here and then we get 7 pages of "Oh my god who cares, this is just pandering" Well, now you're all talking about the game. Y'all bit the hook, the marketers did their job.

In future, can we just ignore it? Pretty please?
 
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I don't care where (just far)
I dont agree with the direction they are going with the characters because it is forced diversity just for the sake of filling a checkbox..
Literally every representation of diversity gets called forced by someone on here.

Literally every single time.

I think that’s bullshit, and unfair. It’s a cop-out.
 
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Literally every representation of diversity gets called forced by someone on here.

Literally every single time.

I think that’s bullshit, and unfair. It’s a cop-out.
Because when there's absolutely no reason involved in revealing the gender/orientation of anyone, it's forced.
When nobody fucking cares, yet they still say it, it's forced.
When they dont let that information slip casually and instead of that, they scream that out loud, it's forced.
When there's zero naturality involved in the reveal, it's forced.
 
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badblue

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I posted something like once in a similar thread and was banned lol because posting something like this is ANTI-LQBTQ because people DO care. lol
The "Oh my god, who cares" meme is more about is more about the sexual orientation of the character's on a whole being irrelevant, not that specific orientation.
Gay, Straight, Queer, Trans or whatever really doesn't matter because at the end of the day, people are picking him in game because of his abilities and not his orientation.

I do understand that there are people that really do care about the sexual orientation of video game characters. But if there is no story element to the game, why should it matter what sexual orientation of the character is? Are LGBT+ people going to pick him more? Are homophobes going to pick him less? Or are they going to be looking at his skills and going "I think that Gun-shield might be useful" and picking him because of that?
 
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I don't care where (just far)
Then my advice to you is to Stay Mad.

It’s gonna become something you see or read about in many games moving forward and there’s always gonna be someone who can’t wait to post a new thread about it every time (I mean we all know straight characters need their own threads each time!) for the sole purpose of igniting a 10 page “debate” that’s identical to the one before. Same people writing the same things.

LBGTW representation in gaming is going to happen, plan accordingly

Talk about echo chamber effect. At least these talks are better than the “No, MUH Ellie only takez DICK! MUH Ellie ain’t no LEZ!” though I’m sure we will get more of that once release gets closer.

Good day, friends!

 
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Because when there's absolutely no reason involved in revealing the gender/orientation of anyone, it's forced.
When nobody fucking cares, yet they still say it, it's forced.
When they dont let that information slip casually and instead of that, they scream that out loud, it's forced.
When there's zero naturality involved in the reveal, it's forced.

I'll just add that if you make it a point somewhere in some meeting about advertising your game that someone needs to actually say there is an LGBTQ character in your game this is a problem. If a gamer can't figure it out on their own through the games lore or in-game storytelling, then it is some forced extra advertising ploy. It's bullshit.
 
Likes: Whitecrow
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Kind of relevant. In the Division 2 you don't get to choose a gender. You choose a "body type".
I assumed body type was about choosing a muscular, chubby, slim body. Nope. And it feels like half of all enemies are women. Gender equality in the apocalypse. Cool.
Odyssey had more black characters than fair skinned ones, in a game set in Greece. What do you expect from Ubisoft.
 
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What I actually said was '..your character starts to feel less badass when you know he takes it in the ass. Like why buy skins for a character who sucks dick?' Which was contextually out of place in a mainly adult thread. I have now been removed.
WOW, deleted for saying people think their characters are less badass when they know their gay. Sorry i was "graphic" by saying what i literally think happens because of the games lore. Just ban me.

People dont want to buy skins for characters that have gay sex, like putting objects in no-no places and putting dirty objects in their mouths. (hopefully thats PG enough for the SJW's aka Mods)
 
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Dec 3, 2018
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Then my advice to you is to Stay Mad.

It’s gonna become something you see or read about in many games moving forward and there’s always gonna be someone who can’t wait to post a new thread about it every time (I mean we all know straight characters need their own threads each time!) for the sole purpose of igniting a 10 page “debate” that’s identical to the one before. Same people writing the same things.

LBGTW representation in gaming is going to happen, plan accordingly

Talk about echo chamber effect. At least these talks are better than the “No, MUH Ellie only takez DICK! MUH Ellie ain’t no LEZ!” though I’m sure we will get more of that once release gets closer.

Good day, friends!

Something tells me that this post right here is exactly the reason Apex Legends is going all in on the tokenism. All of it, right down to the smugness, strawmen, and stupidity.

I'm all for gay characters and developers using gay characters to say something about the story or society - hell, as a writer, I've written gay, lesbian, and bisexual characters, and I've never had a problem with it. I think it made my work better. So, I'm absolutely okay with the creation and usage of gay characters.

I'm less okay with using gay characters to say something about me, personally - or rather, some absurd strawman version of me that has very little resemblance to my actual views that is based on some sort of ignorant hatred of people who share my superficial attributes of being white, male, and hetrosexual. I have a problem with Apex Legends' use of minority and gay characters because it is outwardly aggressive to the game's audience, nakedly pandering to ideologues, and takes away from the work rather than improving it.

It is objectively a bad move, and I don't care how much Kool Aid you drink, you don't defend an objectively bad move.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Jun 25, 2018
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Literally every representation of diversity gets called forced by someone on here.

Literally every single time.

I think that’s bullshit, and unfair. It’s a cop-out.
Is it somehow any better that stuff like this needs an announcement? That it needs attention to?

We aren't making announcements for straight characters either do we? Oh right, they are a majority, so they don't count, because minorities somehow need those announcements.

The best recognition for any minority is when they are treated like everyone else. Giving minorities special recognition like this does nothing to solve the global issue, it only seeks to enhance it and have discussion about it where it actually deviates from what the game is about.

It also adds nothing to the overall experience, except that now you were told that these characters are in the game. Which is completely unnecessary.

Then my advice to you is to Stay Mad.

It’s gonna become something you see or read about in many games moving forward and there’s always gonna be someone who can’t wait to post a new thread about it every time (I mean we all know straight characters need their own threads each time!) for the sole purpose of igniting a 10 page “debate” that’s identical to the one before. Same people writing the same things.
Then perhaps we should offer no reaction whatsoever to such announcements? The intent clearly is there to spark discussion (''Hey look, we have two characters that are LGBTQ! Talk about it!, GO AHEAD DO IT YOU MORON'') which is just needlessly aggressive and in your face. If those characters simply said in their biography that they are queer or trans, wouldn't that be better?

LBGTW representation in gaming is going to happen, plan accordingly
Right. Does this have to happen with PSA's like these or can it just be silently introduced like it should be?

Something tells me that this post right here is exactly the reason Apex Legends is going all in on the tokenism. All of it, right down to the smugness, strawmen, and stupidity. I have a problem with Apex Legends' use of minority and gay characters because it is outwardly aggressive to the game's audience, nakedly pandering to ideologues, and takes away from the work rather than improving it.
Specifically this part. Announcing it literally adds nothing to the game but to score attention points in the same way BFV had that awesome twitter hashtag supposely mocking the criticasters about their historically correct video.

They only make PSA's about it to spur a discussion and in BFV's case it didn't result in better sales, in fact it only hurted them in the end, so i doubt any sales manager likes that idea. For the dev's themselves, its a case of their hard work not seeing the reward they deserve because they had to talk about this gender talk publically.

LGBTQers do not need special attention. What helps a 1000x times more is that they are accepted in their community, in their nation, in their games. Making PSA's about the existence of LGBTQers does nothing for them, in fact, it puts them in a negative light because yes, this stuff is forced pandering no matter how you slice it.
 

ArchaeEnkidu

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Jan 30, 2018
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Then my advice to you is to Stay Mad.

It’s gonna become something you see or read about in many games moving forward and there’s always gonna be someone who can’t wait to post a new thread about it every time (I mean we all know straight characters need their own threads each time!) for the sole purpose of igniting a 10 page “debate” that’s identical to the one before. Same people writing the same things.

LBGTW representation in gaming is going to happen, plan accordingly

Talk about echo chamber effect. At least these talks are better than the “No, MUH Ellie only takez DICK! MUH Ellie ain’t no LEZ!” though I’m sure we will get more of that once release gets closer.

Good day, friends!

The only one "mad" here seems to be you against people who have legitimate concerns.
 
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(''Hey look, we have two characters that are LGBTQ! Talk about it!, GO AHEAD DO IT YOU MORON'')
I may be missing something here but people are discussing this like its a public service announcement. All I've seen is a line in a biography and a response to a Q&A? If there's any other form of announcement, can we get some links to it. I'd generally be interested in seeing it.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Jun 25, 2018
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I may be missing something here but people are discussing this like its a public service announcement. All I've seen is a line in a biography and a response to a Q&A? If there's any other form of announcement, can we get some links to it. I'd generally be interested in seeing it.
See the OP, the Game Revolution link and the fact its on their site in the Characters.
 
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The only one "mad" here seems to be you against people who have legitimate concerns.
If you feel people have legitimate concerns, please answer the questions in this post and detail them. I'd be interested in hearing your answers.

See the OP, the Game Revolution link and the fact its on their site in the Characters.
But that's the media doing what the media does, not Respawn putting out a press release saying "look at our gay characters, everyone!"
 
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I don't understand what EA's doing, they aren't actually helping an agenda here, they are actually helping add to the backlash against it. They are parading the group around like trophies which is the opposite of what "supporters" should be doing.

The people influencing EA's top brass seem to legitimately be completely out of touch with reality, and don't know they are clearly causing harm by doing this.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
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But that's the media doing what the media does, not Respawn putting out a press release saying "look at our gay characters, everyone!"
Does EA need to make a mention of it? I don't think so.

Lets be honest here - This only concerns people belonging to said minority and they may or may not find this useful. For everyone else its completely useless additional factoids. Next thing you know they will say the Spy character in these and other games has a mean omelet in his spare time.

Like, is it really necessary to know this? I doubt it.
 
Likes: ArchaeEnkidu
Oct 17, 2011
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Then my advice to you is to Stay Mad.

It’s gonna become something you see or read about in many games moving forward and there’s always gonna be someone who can’t wait to post a new thread about it every time (I mean we all know straight characters need their own threads each time!) for the sole purpose of igniting a 10 page “debate” that’s identical to the one before. Same people writing the same things.

LBGTW representation in gaming is going to happen, plan accordingly

Talk about echo chamber effect. At least these talks are better than the “No, MUH Ellie only takez DICK! MUH Ellie ain’t no LEZ!” though I’m sure we will get more of that once release gets closer.

Good day, friends!

Can't argue with this. I'm not even sure how these threads get this big.

Does EA need to make a mention of it? I don't think so.

Lets be honest here - This only concerns people belonging to said minority and they may or may not find this useful. For everyone else its completely useless additional factoids. Next thing you know they will say the Spy character in these and other games has a mean omelet in his spare time.

Like, is it really necessary to know this? I doubt it.
For some yes, for most no. Do they need to make a big deal out of it? Not really, but they did. Was it for attention? You bet your bottom dollar it is. It's disingenuous and it's fully for PR, but it really doesn't matter in the long run. You can just ignore it and not care.
 
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Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
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Can't argue with this. I'm not even sure how these threads get this big.



For some yes, for most no. Do they need to make a big deal out of it? Not really, but they did. Was it for attention? You bet your bottom dollar it is. It's disingenuous and it's fully for PR, but it really doesn't matter in the long run. You can just ignore it and not care.
Seems we are 7 pages in full of people not caring about the issue.
I don't care about the issue, but i care about it, you know?
 
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If that's not what you're saying, and this is the wrong way to put a gay character in a game, what is the right way?

I love talking craft, so I'll answer these questions for you.


Basically, Chekhov's Gun. If there's a gun in the first act, then it has to go off in the third act. Don't put anything in that is irrelevant because it bogs down the story and it creates expectations for its use by the viewer. So if being gay has no relevance to the plot, motivation, action, or whatever, just hold on to that information until such time that it becomes relevant. Having a gay boyfriend doesn't mean anything if this boyfriend isn't a character or familiar to the viewer. It's okay for them to be gay and it not be drawn attention to - you just don't write anything that would indicate otherwise. Then, when it becomes important (because being gay is an obstacle, a motivation, or a solution), you can draw attention to it without it feeling like a surprising reveal or an unnecessary bullet point on a list of character attributes.

It's the thing where you have to describe a character without mentioning their job or what they are wearing. If you can only describe a character as 'gay' but can't describe anything else about why that matters, then you've created a stereotype, not a character (much less a gay one).

If that's not what you're saying, and this is the wrong way to sexualize a female character in a game, what is the right way?
I've been watching Xabungle, an early 80s giant robot anime made for children, and it's got a surprising amount of nudity in it. There's toplessness is every other episode. Apparently, this was not a problem for children 40 years ago, but we can't even handle that as adults today. If you really want to be blown away, check out Ms. Machiko. Also an anime for children with tons of nudity.

So I think it is a pretty weird idea that there is a wrong way to sexualize a female character because it's obvious that there are societies out there that do not have the same hang ups that we do about it. This means that it is not the act itself which is wrong, but the viewpoints of those judging the act.

However, as a writer, you never want to make something gratuitous (unless gratuitous is your goal - a valid decision). Basically, every work you create has a purpose. Some idea or story that you are trying to convey, and something that is gratuitous draws attention away from the purpose of the work (in the same way as described above with Chekhov's Gun). You have to know when and where to use things so that they enhance a work rather than drown it, and I think Xabungle has been rather illuminating to me in that it absolutely doesn't do this, even though you would think that topless nudity doesn't really have a place in children's giant robot anime. It ultimately doesn't come across as excessive because it is appropriately used - Xabungle is a comedy (and a parody) and it turns out that nudity can be very funny, dramatic, or satirical.

If this is the wrong way to put a gay character in a game, what is the right way? I think sexualized characters and minority characters have that in common. If every appearance of them is dismissed as pandering, how could they ever be included in some mythical "right way" that people should be fine with?
If I were going into a work with the intention of creating a gay character, I would first try to figure out how being gay informs his motivations and personality. Is it an obstacle for advancement? Does he love a character who can't love him back? Is he doing something for the purposes of showing off to another character? In all honesty, I'd probably make his main motivation being his sexuality, but I wouldn't draw attention directly to it (similar to Renly in Game of Thrones) so that the people who are paying attention would be rewarded with a deeper understanding of the character.

Within the world of Apex Legends, there's not much I can think of where it would matter. That's not to say that it couldn't matter. Perhaps there will be some element of plot in the season passes that could make use of this character trait. But since it isn't there yet, I would keep it in my back pocket for the time being. As the writer, I would be aware of him being gay, but I'd also have inside knowledge of a whole host of things that make up his character that the audience just wouldn't care about or would draw the wrong conclusions from. It's my job to put those things into the work where applicable in a way that enhances the work.