U.N. urges U.S. to stop police brutality

[benjipwns]

Well, I'm glad you're such a stickler for semantics and advertising campaigns over actual on the ground reality but let me be clear.

The federal prohibition of drugs legally started in the United States in 1914 and has escalated ever since. In 1972 the Nixon Administration gave it an official branding which you seem to associate with the Start of History, a sort of anti-Fukuyamaism. But make no mistake, the Federal Government was "combating" drugs well before Nixon declared "war" same as the existence of welfare before LBJ declared "war" on Poverty and the existence of counter-terrorism before Bush declared "war" on Terror.

So in a sense, while we stopped having real wars but instead "police actions" in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. We sure kept branding things as wars.

And we certainly started outfitting our law enforcement agencies for them. The police abuses attached to this are far worse than and contribute to the types of crimes that Michael Brown suffered. The UN supports all of the former, while condemning the end tail results.

 

[speculawyer]

Well, I'm glad you're such a stickler for semantics and advertising campaigns over actual on the ground reality but let me be clear.

The federal prohibition of drugs legally started in the United States in 1914 and has escalated ever since. In 1972 the Nixon Administration gave it an official branding which you seem to associate with the Start of History, a sort of anti-Fukuyamaism. But make no mistake, the Federal Government was "combating" drugs well before Nixon declared "war" same as the existence of welfare before LBJ declared "war" on Poverty and the existence of counter-terrorism before Bush declared "war" on Terror.

So in a sense, while we stopped having real wars but instead "police actions" in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. We sure kept branding things as wars.

And we certainly started outfitting our law enforcement agencies for them. The police abuses attached to this are far worse than and contribute to the types of crimes that Michael Brown suffered.

So you've hated American since before you were born.

I think we understand everything now.

 

[benjipwns]

So you've hated American since before you were born.

I think we understand everything now.

It's always fun when the reactionary conservatives get down to brass tacks and just start sputtering about how someone "hates America" by pointing out its failures to live up to the Declaration.

 

[stonesak]

It's always fun when the reactionary conservatives get down to brass tacks and just start sputtering about how someone "hates America" by pointing out its failures to live up to the Declaration.

Holy shit, speculawyer is a reactionary conservative now? When did this happen?

 

[devilhawk]

Holy shit, speculawyer is a reactionary conservative now? When did this happen?

It's almost like speculawyer knew one of those photos wasn't even from the US and was an obvious photo of a Mexican military raid on Jorge Castilla.

 

[May16]

Is there a government sponsored institution that condones, practices and profits off of sexual abuse that I'm unaware of?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbImcfXCNTQ

 

[RyanDG]

It's a shame that a statement like this is going to cause conservative and republicans to double down on the position that Ferguson is about race-baiting simply because the UN mentioned it. And then they will blame Obama for apologizing for the United States.

 

[Hyperactivity]

The first step would be for the United States to stop thinking they're like any other civilized nation.

We already do

We're already better than some Finland

 

[benjipwns]

We already do

We're already better than some Finland

Shhh, you're going to wake Simo Häyhä.

 

[lednerg]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...in_Narcotic_Drugs_and_Psychotropic_Substances


Yet they commented on police abuse, which isn't limited to racial discrimination.

Ad hominem.

 

[Chariot]

Well, I guess the US soon gets some blue helmets who watch while police brutality happens.

 

[Hyperactivity]

It's always fun when the reactionary conservatives get down to brass tacks and just start sputtering about how someone "hates America" by pointing out its failures to live up to the Declaration.

What?!

You're accusing Speculawyer of being conservative?!

 

[Coffee Dog]

It's always fun when the reactionary conservatives get down to brass tacks and just start sputtering about how someone "hates America" by pointing out its failures to live up to the Declaration.

Benji, you should probably take it down a notch or two because what you're saying is sorta crazy. Speculawyer a reactionary conservative? Really?

 

[benjipwns]

What's so weird about that? GAF is a pretty heavily reactionary and conservative forum. Probably the dominant ideology set.

When a soft-liberal critique of the American governments crimes gets a response that one must have "hated America since before you were born" that fits right into the standard M.O. of the ideology almost to a tee.

Not that there's anything wrong with being a reactionary or a conservative or even a reactionary conservative. I encourage it, the conservative part especially, since slow, deliberate and measured evolutionary change is ideal.

And not that speculawyer can't be considered a fine poster.

 

[Vitten]

Certainly not condoning it but police brutality seems somewhat logical in the US given the circumstances they have to work in. Ubiquitous guns, high violent crime rates, rundown areas, gang violence.. It's not a nice work environment out there.

Just the simple fact that everybody and their mother could be packing and you can get shot each time you pull someone over or arrive at a scene would make anyone paranoid when dealing with the public.

 

[benjipwns]

Certainly not condoning it but police brutality seems somewhat logical in the US given the circumstances they have to work in. Ubiquitous guns, high violent crime rates, rundown areas, gang violence.. It's not a nice work environment out there.

Just the simple fact that everybody and their mother could be packing and you can get shot each time you pull someone over or arrive at a scene would make anyone paranoid.

Except as noted both gun ownership rates and crime rates have been dropping while police militarization and crimes have been increasing.

 

[Vitten]

Except as noted both gun ownership rates and crime rates have been dropping while police militarization and crimes have been increasing.

I know, and often shake my head when I'm watching a show like Cops which also runs here on TV in Europe and see how bullyish cops treat the public in general. ( Though I'm not sure if the stuff on Cops is in any sort representative for the average US police officer )

Still, I do believe they would be a LOT more at ease if gun laws would be on European level.

 

[benjipwns]

The stuff on Cops is what the police want you to see as their hard and honorable work. Tapes going missing when something got filmed they don't want you to.

 

[Dead Man]

Benji, sometimes you are funny, and sometimes you are weird.

 

[benjipwns]

Benji, sometimes you are funny, and sometimes you are weird.

I dare you to say that to me on the internet.

 

[Mario]

Yet they commented on police abuse, which isn't limited to racial discrimination.

Again, not their mandate to comment beyond racial discrimination.

 

[benjipwns]

But they commented on Stand Your Ground laws.

 

[waypoetic]

Amurica is too stubborn to listen. It just plugs it's ears and screams "constitution!".

 

[Mario]

But they commented on Stand Your Ground laws.

The context of which was racially charged violence.

 

[benjipwns]

The context of which was racially charged violence.

Neither of the people who testified were involved in a case related to Stand Your Ground laws.

So not only did the panel hear testimony from people who had no connection to the laws, it then made a statement on the laws. At no time was anything having to do with racial discrimination involved.

 

[Mario]

Neither of the people who testified were involved in a case related to Stand Your Ground laws.

So? The context is still racially charged violence. That's the context of their whole report.

So not only did the panel hear testimony from people who had no connection to the laws, it then made a statement on the laws.

We don't have any idea the totality of people who testified, nor what they based their statement on Stand Your Ground laws on.

The proximity of the Stand Your Ground paragraph and the testimony in "not Stand Your Ground" cases of racial violence is the choice of the article author and unlikely a reflection of the whole process or deliberations of the committee.

 

[benjipwns]

We don't have any idea the totality of people who testified, nor what they based their statement on Stand Your Ground laws on.

The proximity of the Stand Your Ground paragraph and the testimony in "not Stand Your Ground" cases of racial violence is the choice of the article author and unlikely a reflection of the whole process or deliberations of the committee.

I looked at: http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=14940&LangID=E

 

[Zolf]

GAF is a pretty heavily reactionary and conservative forum. Probably the dominant ideology set.

I'm sorry but this is baffling. I don't know how someone could come to this conclusion.

 

[benjipwns]

How would you term the plurality ideology?

 

[ComputerMKII]

First North Korea, then the UN. Wow.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

I would have loved it if the U.S. Ambassador had said not all cops.

 

[Dead Man]

I dare you to say that to me on the internet.

Heh

 

[Phoenix]

Does this carry any weight at all?

Not until we feel like sanctioning ourselves - no. It lessens the weight of our arguments against OTHER countries doing similar with their police, but that's pretty much it.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

benjipwns, that's a really odd way of looking at the actions of the United Nations. It's a composite organization, and it's difficult to attribute any action or statement stemming from Conventios or Resolutions solely to 'the United Nations' as a coherent body. Insofar as that the United Nations supported the 1988 Narcotic Drugs and Pychotropic Substances Convention, it did so at the behest of a few key members with the soft power to ensure that the convention is passed. Chief among those is the United States itself. At best, you can blame the United Nations as a body for being easily enough manipulated that the United States can claim some sort of international legitimacy for its actions, but a direct accusation seems more unfair.

You could claim equally that this means the United Nations can't be praised for calling out the United States on its poor racial rights track record, but the way that Conventions operate and the way the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination [CERD] work is different. Conventions are introduced by, signed by and ratified by states themselves; the United Nations has no independent authority and acts merely as a gathering chamber. Committees consist of representatives elected by collections of states, and while they obviously are to an extent influenced by the coalition of states responsible for their election, they do reserve some operational independence. At least some of the operational independence was probably used in issuing this condemnation of the United States. So, this, at least partially, can be attributed to the United Nations in the way that a Convention cannot, and it's worth praising the United Nations on this front.

My personal suspicion is that you already know this, and your points are somewhat intended as just for the sake of argument, but if you didn't, there you go.

 

[RangerX]

Just curious as an outsider, do asian americans suffer the same discrimination by the police as black people do?

 

[YoungHav]

Just curious as an outsider, do asian americans suffer the same discrimination by the police as black people do?

Of course not.