U.S. Is ‘Native Land’ for All Latinos - Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Musky_Cheese

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Oct 23, 2016
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#51
Thats not what I was saying and you know it. I'm saying that her optimism and her energy are positive traits in my opinion. The fact that she is able to use Twitter in a way that no other Democrats have been able to do yet in order to reach a younger audience is a positive trait in my opinion. An audience that might not watch CSPAN or the nightly news. She is bringing the political problems of the United States to a medium that younger people are more familiar with and can understand better. She is able to get on their level and say "Look at all of the things that are wrong with the US and its Government right now! We need to fix this! Here are my ideas." The difference is she is at least presenting ideas. Where other politicians may try to "read the room" and hold back for fear of being wrong or being ridiculed she is not afraid to present ideas and possible solutions even if they may not work.



Politicians shouldn't be afraid to be wrong. They should not be afraid to try. They shouldn't be afraid to throw something at the wall and see if it sticks.



So it doesn't matter if her "Green New Deal" passes or not. It doesn't matter if her 70% tax rate for the extremely wealthy is realistic or not. What matters is that the publicity she is bringing to these serious issues could be laying the groundwork for future plans that are similar in nature, but more realistic in their execution. She is using the spotlight that is on her as a way to put a spotlight on the issues that are needing to be addressed in this country. Issues that otherwise might have been left alone and be allowed to fester and grow more severe.



She is starting the conversation. She is getting the ball rolling on issues that need to be addressed. That to me is a good thing because god knows there is alot that needs to be addressed at this point.
Umm no.

Great for her that she isn't afraid to be wrong and try. And great for you that you standards are low.

When she is able to answer basic questions about ideas that were pillars of her campaign, or when she stops saying completely dumb shit like the world is gonna end in 12 years... feel free to get back to me.

Until then, she is a joke. Real ideas and even the slightest understanding of how to implement them > Twitter and Dancing. Getting things done and passed thru congress > Twitter and Dancing.
 
May 22, 2018
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#52
Umm no.

Great for her that she isn't afraid to be wrong and try. And great for you that you standards are low.

When she is able to answer basic questions about ideas that were pillars of her campaign, or when she stops saying completely dumb shit like the world is gonna end in 12 years... feel free to get back to me.

Until then, she is a joke. Real ideas and even the slightest understanding of how to implement them > Twitter and Dancing. Getting things done and passed thru congress > Twitter and Dancing.
Believe what you want. All I can do is tell you where I am coming from and why I like her. I don't need you to agree with me. Also your exaggerated dismissal of her by trying to say all she does is "Twitter and Dancing" tells me you are not interested in having a serious discussion about her anyway.
 
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#53
She is the Dems newest star. She has wild popularity among the young Democratic base and has weaponized social media in a way that not even Trump has done. Despite some of her more fanciful ideas she has clearly shown that she is deadly serious about making America and its government a better place. Her unbridled optimism and naivety on a some of her talking points is why I like her as much as I do. She is not afraid to reach a bit higher and want a bit more than the other politicians that run this country.
Barney use to captivate that young base you speak of before Spongebob did. Both of them are more serious than she is. But I respect the ride or die hustle you have going on after she proved she's about as useful to govern as a Kindergarten class. Remind me of:

"I will go down with this ship
And I won't put my hands up and surrender
There will be no white flag above my door
I'm in love and always will be
I will go down with this ship
And I won't put my hands up and surrender
There will be no white flag above my door
I'm in love and always will be"
 
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#54
Umm no.

Great for her that she isn't afraid to be wrong and try. And great for you that you standards are low.

When she is able to answer basic questions about ideas that were pillars of her campaign, or when she stops saying completely dumb shit like the world is gonna end in 12 years... feel free to get back to me.

Until then, she is a joke. Real ideas and even the slightest understanding of how to implement them > Twitter and Dancing. Getting things done and passed thru congress > Twitter and Dancing.
Man, we really eat our own.

Her policies and public speaking need work, sure.

Instead of focusing on that, to tear her down, perhaps instead view her vigor and candor as useful tools and encourage her to improve areas of weakness.

We can all thrive.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#55
Man, we really eat our own.

Her policies and public speaking need work, sure.

Instead of focusing on that, to tear her down, perhaps instead view her vigor and candor as useful tools and encourage her to improve areas of weakness.

We can all thrive.
Jare - you're a good egg but what she is proposing would destroy the country and leave it too bankrupt to recover. Imagine if you gutted your house to the studs, and then found out there was no money to finish, the heat and electric was being shut off, and your car broke down preventing you from going to the job that just closed anyway? That's what she is proposing would do to everyone on a much grander level.
 
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Musky_Cheese

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#56
Man, we really eat our own.

Her policies and public speaking need work, sure.

Instead of focusing on that, to tear her down, perhaps instead view her vigor and candor as useful tools and encourage her to improve areas of weakness.

We can all thrive.
Those Policies and speaking are the most important things tho...
Believe what you want. All I can do is tell you where I am coming from and why I like her. I don't need you to agree with me. Also your exaggerated dismissal of her by trying to say all she does is "Twitter and Dancing" tells me you are not interested in having a serious discussion about her anyway.
No she doesn't just Twitter and Dance.

She goes on TV and can't explain jack shit about things that were the core of her campaign. And says things like the world is gonna end in 12 years. All of which means nothing to you.

So what you really want is Justin Bieber's Twitter account taken over by the Democratic Party.

I love how you and @JareBear are like "yeah she needs work in the areas of being a member of congress" but she has twitter. Then no she is more than a Twitter account. I don't eat pork, please pass the ham and bacon.
 
May 22, 2018
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#57
Man, we really eat our own.

Her policies and public speaking need work, sure.

Instead of focusing on that, to tear her down, perhaps instead view her vigor and candor as useful tools and encourage her to improve areas of weakness.

We can all thrive.
I know. Its ridiculous. But the way the Right responds to her is even worse.


Donald Trump = POTUS with a laundry list of flaws and shortcomings who can barely get through a speech = OH BUT LOOK AT ALL THE GOOD STUFF THOUGH! YOU GUYS ARE JUST MAD YOU LOST! LOL


AOC = A rookie Congresswoman with a handful of flaws and trouble with public speaking at times = WOW FUCK HER WHAT AN IDIOT! LUL DEMS ARE DESPERATE IF THEY NEED HER!



Never ceases to amaze me.
 
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#58
Man, we really eat our own.

Her policies and public speaking need work, sure.

Instead of focusing on that, to tear her down, perhaps instead view her vigor and candor as useful tools and encourage her to improve areas of weakness.

We can all thrive.
Her policies don’t need work, they are moronic policies. And maybe it’s me but I’m really not coming from a perspective of encouraging a member of Congress. My hope is that Congress would have fully realized individuals that are capable of critical thinking and pragmatic tactics.

I know, it’s hard not to like someone who’s attractive and enthusiastic/entertaining. She’s living proof of how far that can take you.
 
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#59
She is starting the conversation. She is getting the ball rolling on issues that need to be addressed. That to me is a good thing because god knows there is alot that needs to be addressed at this point.
Like returning the US the Latinos. Got to get that ball rolling. Make American Mexican Again!

#MAMA
 
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#60
Man, we really eat our own.

Her policies and public speaking need work, sure.

Instead of focusing on that, to tear her down, perhaps instead view her vigor and candor as useful tools and encourage her to improve areas of weakness.

We can all thrive.
Nah, to achieve even half of what she wants to do would require something worse than Mao's Great Leap Forward that turned Chinese citizens into serfs with no right to move and killed 50 million of them in famine. (Though it is almost in reverse, the Great Leap forward wanted to get rid of family farming and industrialize the country. This Green Deal wants to go back to family farming and de-industrialize.)

So yea I am going to focus on that and not ignore it, because either a) she is completely ignorant and has no idea what the real world impact of these policies would be, or b) she does know and is ok with turning us into serfs without property rights or even travel rights, destroying the economy of the US, and likely causing a famine on unprecedented scale as we move to a zero emission economy. To replace fossil fuels with solar would take a landmass the size of California to be covered in solar panels. Gee, that sounds feasible and like a good idea.

How do you get to zero emissions and still have things like livestock, AC units, electricity at night, electricity when the wind doesn't blow, industrial farming that allows less than 1% of our population work in agriculture, instead of historical pre-fossil fuel farming where the majority of the population must work in food production, etc.

The words in the resolution and in her FAQ have real world consequences. The best defense I have heard the left come up with is that, she doesn't really mean it, it is just aspirational.
 
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Apr 15, 2018
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#61
I know. Its ridiculous. But the way the Right responds to her is even worse.


Donald Trump = POTUS with a laundry list of flaws and shortcomings = OH BUT LOOK AT ALL THE GOOD STUFF THOUGH! YOU GUYS ARE JUST MAD YOU LOST! LOL


AOC = A rookie Congresswoman with a handful of flaws = WOW FUCK HER WHAT AN IDIOT! LUL DEMS ARE DESPERATE IF THEY NEED HER!



Never ceases to amaze me.
Difference is pretty huge. If you were being realistic and fair, you would know Trump never promised unrealistic shit.

AOC is selling a fantasy, but you guys are so desperate you would defend anything, as long as it young, flashy and "cool". As Musky perfectly said.
So what you really want is Justin Bieber's Twitter account taken over by the Democratic Party.
 
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#63
If he’s 50% black and 50% white, why do you call him black but not white?
It's a genuine question. I would like to know the logic behind it. You finding it difficult to answer doesn't make it bait.
That's the way it's always been in America. If you're darker than Lady Gaga and have some non-white facial features belonging to African ancestry, you're either called black or biracial. Mostly you get called black.

In this country, it doesn't matter if one of your parents isn't black... You'll still get called black by everyone who sees you unless you're white-passing. And yes, that's a thing.

That's why Halle Berry, Barack Obama, Jordan Peele, Keegan Michael-Key and others are called black BEFORE it's ever known that they're biracial

For those who are white-passing, it really depends on what THEY identify as. Some are content to be called white and pass as white, never mentioning their African American heritage or family members (to them, being white is better than to ever acknowledge their black side)... And some identify as black... Like Rashida Jones or Wentworth Miller (although Miller sometimes identifies himself as more multiracial than just straight up black though he DEFINITELY acknowledges his African Americanz side).

Bet y'all didn't know Rashida Jones is half black...
 
Apr 15, 2018
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#67
You mean other than the fact he told everyone that Mexico would pay for it? His entire campaign was based upon an unrealistic promise.
We can easily have Mexico "pay" for the border wall by taxing remittances, or by just cutting the foreign aid we give them. It's a pittance amount.

On the contrary, AOC is demanding trillions of dollars to shut down whole industries and plant trees. I find it stunning you can perform mental gymnastics to find excuses for that, but the idea of border security, to you that's a fucking moon shot. That's a step to far.😂
 
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May 22, 2018
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#68
We can easily have Mexico "pay" for the border wall by taxing remittances, or by just cutting the foreign aid we give them. It's a pittance amount.
I'm so tired of hearing the roundabout excuses that people have for excusing Trumps lies so they don't have to admit he is full of shit.


He lied. He was implying that Mexico would directly pay for the wall. His administration even tried to make it sound like taxpayers money wouldn't be used once it becamse abundantly clear Mexico would not pay for the wall. He made an unrealistic promise. Just own it like I did with AOC. I already said some of her policies were unrealistic. The least you can do is be honest as well.
 
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#69
I'm so tired of hearing the roundabout excuses that people have for excusing Trumps lies so they don't have to admit he is full of shit.
Says NI in a thread where he defends a politician whose brilliant idea was to give money to people "unwilling to work". What will be the roundabout excuses for that? Or the shuttering of entire industries? How is that more realistic than border security?

Like I said, you are incapable of being honest.
 
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May 22, 2018
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#70
Says NI in a thread where he defends a politician whose brilliant idea was to give money to people "unwilling to work". What will be the roundabout excuses for that? Or the shuttering of entire industries? How is that more realistic than border security?

Like I said, you are incapable of being honest.
I edited my post to be more specific.


Also its not about Border Security and you fucking know it. Stop ignoring the fact that Trump lied and made an unrealistic promise about Mexico paying for the wall and stop deflecting away from it.
 
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Musky_Cheese

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#71
Difference is pretty huge. If you were being realistic and fair, you would know Trump never promised unrealistic shit.

AOC is selling a fantasy, but you guys are so desperate you would defend anything, as long as it young, flashy and "cool". As Musky perfectly said.
Imagine if they were women and going to an OB-GYN...

They got in the room, took off their pants, and got on the table with their feet in the air...

"Hello" the OB-GYN says. "I'm so excited to be at work today".

OB-GYN looks at your vagina and then shouts "WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT THING"!!!

"The OB-GYN needs work being able to identify the puss, sure. Instead of focusing on that, to tear him down, perhaps instead view his vigor and candor as useful tools and encourage him to improve areas of weakness. We can all thrive."
 
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#74
I edited my post to be more specific.


Also its not about Border Security and you fucking know it. Stop ignoring the fact that Trump lied and made an unrealistic promise about Mexico paying for the wall and stop deflecting away from it.
Right, it's about as usual your blatant hypocrisy. Border security is impossible and crazy but the shit AOC proposed, totally fine. You can't defend that, so now your crying over campaign speeches?

the Trump administration has always said taxing remittances was one of the ways they would raise funding for the wall. Even during the primaries.
 
Feb 21, 2018
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#76
So where are the fact checkers that were splitting hairs with Trumps SOTU?

We already know that AOC said facts and truth don't matter, emotions and morality do so its not a surprise she would just drop lies like that.

Sorry but saying she is descended from a guy like Nathan Phillips is as truthfull as Elizabeth Warren saying she is a Cherokee Indian. I don't even think its truthful to say Mexicans/latin american's descended from the Aztecs or other natives most probably descended from Spanish colonizers. But even if we said most Latin American and Mexican's descended from natives, its not the natives that live in North America. Its not the Cherokee or other tribes. Drawing a line between Jennifer Lopez and Nathan Phillips is retarded.

She then says everyone has mobility rights, so basically everyone can just go to the US and there should be no immigration process. And since Latinos are descended from Chief Sitting Bull and the Iroquios and Cherokee's that a Gutamalan or El Savadorian has the right to illegally enter the country.

The only similarity she has with natives is with Nathan Phillips in that they both lie their faces off.
 
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May 22, 2018
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#77
Right, it's about as usual your blatant hypocrisy. Border security is impossible and crazy but the shit AOC proposed, totally fine. You can't defend that, so now your crying over campaign speeches?

the Trump administration has always said taxing remittances was one of the ways they would raise funding for the wall. Even during the primaries.
You are now intentionally ignoring the point I am making. Let me make my point abundantly clear to you and everyone else so that if you dodge it again it shows you are doing it on purpose.


A promise of Border Security = Totally realistic.


A promise of a giant border wall paid for by Mexico = Not realistic.


The entire purpose of this little back and forth was that you said Trump never made any unrealistic promises and I have shown that to be false. His promise was that Mexico would pay for the wall. Not taxpayers. His promise was unrealistic. Your roundabout excuses for how we could recoup the money through other means at some point down the line is meaningless. It would still be the taxpayers paying for the wall which is not what he promised.
 
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#82
If he’s 50% black and 50% white, why do you call him black but not white?
I'll never understand this stupid one drop rule that America has.

It's moronic as fuck. In Brazil we always called mixed black/whites as mulato. Nowadays people are trying to introduce one drop rule here and call mulatos as only black.

Obama's mom is as white as myself and he isn't white as well? This is ridiculous. Really.

I'm 25% Portuguese and 75% Italian. I am what i am, one doesn't reign over the other.

Also, AOC is the most stupid politician I have ever seen in my life. She is like a walking/talking meme.
 
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#85
First of all, a few months ago AOC was mixing up long islands and flirting with drunk dudes for tips. How is she suddenly so smart that we need to completely revamp our country's economy and industries, just because she says so?

Secondly, her ancestors were the CONQUISTADORS ffs, remember them? The guys who sailed over and claimed the territory of Mexico by slaughtering 90% of the people who lived there via cannons and smallpox? She even has the same last name as the #1 head conquistador.

And she thinks this gives her people title to our land now, in 2019?
 
May 22, 2018
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#86
First of all, a few months ago AOC was mixing up long islands and flirting with drunk dudes for tips. How is she suddenly so smart that we need to completely revamp our country's economy and industries, just because she says so?

Secondly, her ancestors were the CONQUISTADORS ffs, remember them? The guys who sailed over and claimed the territory of Mexico by slaughtering 90% of the people who lived there via cannons and smallpox? She even has the same last name as the #1 head conquistador.
Is this a parody post?
 
May 20, 2007
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#87
You know its possible to have both right?
What, valuing morals over a well run country and valuing a well run country over morals?

That sounds like a recipe for failure. Perhaps a well run country is best made by prioritizing a well run country.

Morals are too easy to manipulate and lie about. I do not feel they are a good way to run a nation.
 
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May 22, 2018
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#88
What, valuing morals over a well run country and valuing a well run country over morals?

That sounds like a recipe for failure. Perhaps a well run country is best made by prioritizing a well run country.

Morals are too easy to manipulate and lie about. I do not feel they are a good way to run a nation.
Yes, but you could simply have a well run country that values morals. Thats what I am saying.
 
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#89
29 year old doesn't know how the world works. Meh. The mainstream media found a fairy tale story in her primary win despite her being one simple house rep out of hundreds. The socialist wing of the democratic party further propelled her because she is for all their crazy shit. And now the rightwing response has risen her profile even more. Its a feedback loop not unlike Anita Sarkeesian.

I don't even think its truthful to say Mexicans/latin american's descended from the Aztecs or other natives most probably descended from Spanish colonizers.
Its both Spanish + Portugese colonizers AND natives. We are mutts lol

Thats why latinos come in white, black, and brown. Amerimutts represent yo.
 
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Feb 21, 2018
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#92
What did he promise that was unrealistic? The wall is simple and cheap as hell next to the green pipe dream.
he promised a good economy, low unemployment especially for minorites, women in the work force, net energy exporter, and MAGA.

But none of that would ever happen amrite? LOL.

Even his wall would be built if it wasn't for Dems playing politics and putting 2020 ahead of the security of the nation they supposedly represent.

But AOC made it clear, all of the people south of the border have the RIGHT to enter the USA, there is no illegal immigration because migration is a right, and Latino's are decsended of Cherokee and other North American Native tribes so they are the actual natives.
 
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Feb 21, 2018
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#93
Its both Spanish + Portugese colonizers AND natives. We are mutts lol

Thats why latinos come in white, black, and brown. Amerimutts represent yo.
serious question, but do the Aztecs or other native tribes that live in Mexico/Central/South America consider modern day Mexicans as their descendants or as colonizers? Are modern day South American's (anything below USA) considered the rightfull heirs to the Aztec society or are they like white people in the US compared to Cherokee's?
 
May 20, 2007
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#94
Yes, but you could simply have a well run country that values morals. Thats what I am saying.
Sure! It seems we mostly agree on things.

I just do not feel that the same standards would apply to the leaders of that country as would it's citizens, and trying to pick leaders on the basis of who would most embody the morals of the common man is a recipe for disaster. That's all!
 
Apr 9, 2009
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#97
serious question, but do the Aztecs or other native tribes that live in Mexico/Central/South America consider modern day Mexicans as their descendants or as colonizers? Are modern day South American's (anything below USA) considered the rightfull heirs to the Aztec society or are they like white people in the US compared to Cherokee's?
Most Indios (brown natives, physiologically similar to American indians) are living in towns & cities as everyday people. There isn't such a stark separation like there is between the Indians on US reservations and normal Americans. Its more integrated, so they likely see white/black latinos as mere contemporaries more than anything else but I can't speak for them.

What I can say is that Latin countries have a discrimination problem against really dark indios. There is an unspoken caste based on your skin tone. That sort of racial tension is not exclusive to the USA and in fact is much worse. One of the remnants of colonial times when natives were subjugated.
 
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If Trump wasn't president every pro AOC on this board would have laughed her out of office she will accomplish nothing, she currently is nothing, and only fringe dems and the media are even parading her around which does nothing but alienate the left of center and traditional dems.