• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Rumor Ubisoft: French newspaper attacks with stories of harassment, rape and sexual assault.

Ballthyrm

Member
Jun 21, 2013
1,544
2,145
675
Montpellier
Sure, that wouldn't be rape. But would it be ok if it wasn't consensual?

It's called "Aggression sexuelle" in French.

"Constitue une agression sexuelle toute atteinte sexuelle commise avec violence, contrainte, menace ou surprise. "
"constitute a sexual assault, any sexual infringement committed with violence, constraint, threat or surprise "

That's a separate thing and it's most definitively not okay.

If you look at aggravating circumstance in the law.
That's a lot of checks.

3 ° When it is committed by a person who abuses the authority conferred on him by his functions;
8 ° When committed by a person acting in a state of drunkenness or under the manifest influence of narcotic drugs;
11 ° When a substance has been administered to the victim, without his knowledge, in order to impair his discernment or the control of his actions.
 
Last edited:

namekuseijin

Nintendo is for soys and kids. But my tears about them are for men.
Jun 10, 2020
2,949
3,225
615
Sure, that wouldn't be rape. But would it be ok if it wasn't consensual?

do you like and approve foods you never tasted?

salesmen need to cross the line sometimes to sell their product
 

nowhat

Member
Sep 18, 2017
4,357
6,847
625
do you like and approve foods you never tasted?

salesmen need to cross the line sometimes to sell their product
...and this is why you wrote "got lucky enough to stick their tongue into a woman's mouth", and probably won't get to do so like ever.

There are foods I've not tasted, and if I'm curious, I may want to taste them. But I sure as hell don't want them stuffed down my throat at random.
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: namekuseijin

Achelexus

Member
Jan 31, 2018
193
268
370
I'm not feeling bad for Ubisoft lmao.
 
Last edited:

namekuseijin

Nintendo is for soys and kids. But my tears about them are for men.
Jun 10, 2020
2,949
3,225
615
...and this is why you wrote "got lucky enough to stick their tongue into a woman's mouth", and probably won't get to do so like ever.

There are foods I've not tasted, and if I'm curious, I may want to taste them. But I sure as hell don't want them stuffed down my throat at random.

stealing kisses has been a part of male culture forever

bunch of freaks cancelling people on social media won't change that. grow up
 
  • Like
Reactions: Devilich

llien

Member
Feb 1, 2017
9,989
7,944
935

Thanks!

For the likes of me:

  • Beland had allegedly choked a female Ubisoft coworker at a company party—back in 2014
  • "demeaning" jokes told to female coworkers that ended with solicitations of oral sex.
  • Hascoet once replied acrimoniously to a company VP's criticisms, telling coworkers, "this 'bad fuck' [the VP] was hindering his creativity and that someone should open her mind by '[fucking her] from behind' and 'sharing her around until she gets it.'"
  • In another alleged incident, Hascoet "reportedly blocked a woman in the elevator and put himself against her, making groaning sounds and looking her in the eyes. Some of his collaborators in the editorial team reportedly did the same, to the point it became [a signature move]."
Serge Hascoet:
 
Last edited:

Woopah

Member
Jun 15, 2019
1,470
1,594
380
Thanks!

For the likes of me:

  • Beland had allegedly choked a female Ubisoft coworker at a company party—back in 2014
  • "demeaning" jokes told to female coworkers that ended with solicitations of oral sex.
  • Hascoet once replied acrimoniously to a company VP's criticisms, telling coworkers, "this 'bad fuck' [the VP] was hindering his creativity and that someone should open her mind by '[fucking her] from behind' and 'sharing her around until she gets it.'"
  • In another alleged incident, Hascoet "reportedly blocked a woman in the elevator and put himself against her, making groaning sounds and looking her in the eyes. Some of his collaborators in the editorial team reportedly did the same, to the point it became [a signature move]."
The fuck is wrong with people? Why would anyone think this an ok way to behave?
 

namekuseijin

Nintendo is for soys and kids. But my tears about them are for men.
Jun 10, 2020
2,949
3,225
615
The fuck is wrong with people? Why would anyone think this an ok way to behave?

not ok, but part of life. Those in power always tend to abuse their power - either plain jerks or just misguided hitting attempts.

that said, none of this is rape. Just emo kids overreacting as usual...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Devilich

namekuseijin

Nintendo is for soys and kids. But my tears about them are for men.
Jun 10, 2020
2,949
3,225
615
Hascoet "reportedly blocked a woman in the elevator and put himself against her, making groaning sounds and looking her in the eyes

shoking news: male attempting at getting laid

get real, kids. Most likely you were all born after some such successful attempt
 
  • Like
Reactions: Devilich

namekuseijin

Nintendo is for soys and kids. But my tears about them are for men.
Jun 10, 2020
2,949
3,225
615
So, suppose the male in question was gay and was coming on to you - would you still be cool with it happening?

No, I'd just punch him to get things straight, no need for filling a process and ruining someone's life for such a trivial matter. Which is what Nazis are doing.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Devilich

nowhat

Member
Sep 18, 2017
4,357
6,847
625
Which is what Nazis are doing.
I don't think they're handing out the "most insane comparison to Nazis in 2020"-award just quite yet, since the year is still far from over, but congratulations, you're guaranteed to make the short list.
 

Woopah

Member
Jun 15, 2019
1,470
1,594
380
not ok, but part of life. Those in power always tend to abuse their power - either plain jerks or just misguided hitting attempts.

that said, none of this is rape. Just emo kids overreacting as usual...
WTF...


As bad as it is, it's a (very) far cry from rape.
What are you both talking about? I never said it was rape and neither did the article I'm responding to. Its sexual harassment and misogyny. The only mention of rape in the article are the direct quotes from Serge himself.
 

Shodan09

Member
Jan 24, 2018
969
2,014
440
I don't understand the mentality of anyone who sexually assaults another person to begin with, but I especially don't understand the mentality of anyone who does it and has anything to lose by doing it. People know its not the 1920s anymore. This shit doesn't fly today and hasn't for a long time.
 

Sub Boss

Member
Mar 6, 2013
22,232
1,923
795
I find it hard to believe the CEO of Ubisoft wasn't aware what the other executives and HR manager were doing he is as complicit as the rest yet doesn't step down
 

KyoShiRo330

Member
Jan 21, 2018
2,856
11,265
955
31
Bordeaux, France
Re-read the OP and am still not sure what the actual allegations really are.

I know and I am sorry for the lack of precision at the beginning. Until the story got out everywhere, it was difficult to get more information because the article is not free. Liberation is a good newspaper and generally does a good job.
Now that everything is starting to get clearer, it is time for the Legal Authorities to take over.
 
  • Love
Reactions: llien

Bogey

Banned
May 4, 2014
510
621
480

It's pretty shameful what a bunch of Ubi employees seem to have done in terms of sexual harassment. They entirely deserve to be fired.

That particular bit you quoted, however, isn't one of those things, imho.
70% of people in AC chose Alexios - in spite of the fact that Kassandra was canon, and arguably more well written than Alexios. So if the argued the majority would prefer a male protagonists - seems like they were objectively quite spot on.
 

Enjay

Member
Feb 18, 2009
3,030
2,306
1,125
Harassment. rape, and sexual assault... OP needs to learn and understand what redundancy is.
 

Gp1

Member
Sep 17, 2019
863
1,220
445
Considering that all that Ubi did in the last five years was basically copy and paste from one genre to another. I don't think that Ubi "main creative force" is doing a good job.

Creatively speaking...
 
Last edited:

iorek21

Member
Feb 6, 2017
1,743
2,627
555
Brazil
Ubisoft doesn't even respect its own players, why would it respect its employees?

Not even surprising
 

Woopah

Member
Jun 15, 2019
1,470
1,594
380
It's pretty shameful what a bunch of Ubi employees seem to have done in terms of sexual harassment. They entirely deserve to be fired.

That particular bit you quoted, however, isn't one of those things, imho.
70% of people in AC chose Alexios - in spite of the fact that Kassandra was canon, and arguably more well written than Alexios. So if the argued the majority would prefer a male protagonists - seems like they were objectively quite spot on.
Its definitely true that, when given a choice, Assassin's Creed players will pick a male character. But the idea that "women don't sell' had been thoroughly debunked by now. Developers should not have to fight to be able to put female protagonists in games.
 

B-universe

Banned
Mar 23, 2020
1,511
3,317
480
Its definitely true that, when given a choice, Assassin's Creed players will pick a male character. But the idea that "women don't sell' had been thoroughly debunked by now. Developers should not have to fight to be able to put female protagonists in games.

Owners of Ubisoft, shareholders, call the shots.

They elect the management. In turn. management is entitled to make the strategic choices, including how many and what kind of protagonists the game is going to have.

There's no God-given right by which developers get to ignore or overturn managerial choices. The people put in charge are there to make the top-level decisions. Evidently, it's rational and more than advisable to listen to devs, but, at the end of the day, management is paid to manage and that involves establishing what kind of reach teams are given. Sometimes it's free rein. Others, not so much.

Some games may call for a female protagonist, even an all-female cast, or a male protagonist and a diverse cast of characters, or both a female and a male protagonists, and so forth. It does depend on the game and all sorts of considerations can result in different assessments.

The idea that "putting a female protagonists" should never ever be called into question is as absurd as the idea that featuring a male protagonist is obligatory. Everything is open for debate and developers don't get to follow though on their legitimate aspirations as though they had carte blanche and management didn't exist. No, management is there for a reason. It's there as long as the rightful owners of the company want it so.

This isn't to say developer's don't often output their best work when they're given ample freedom. It's just that it's still up to the management.
 

Woopah

Member
Jun 15, 2019
1,470
1,594
380
Owners of Ubisoft, shareholders, call the shots.

They elect the management. In turn. management is entitled to make the strategic choices, including how many and what kind of protagonists the game is going to have.

There's no God-given right by which developers get to ignore or overturn managerial choices. The people put in charge are there to make the top-level decisions. Evidently, it's rational and more than advisable to listen to devs, but, at the end of the day, management is paid to manage and that involves establishing what kind of reach teams are given. Sometimes it's free rein. Others, not so much.

Some games may call for a female protagonist, even an all-female cast, or a male protagonist and a diverse cast of characters, or both a female and a male protagonists, and so forth. It does depend on the game and all sorts of considerations can result in different assessments.

The idea that "putting a female protagonists" should never ever be called into question is as absurd as the idea that featuring a male protagonist is obligatory. Everything is open for debate and developers don't get to follow though on their legitimate aspirations as though they had carte blanche and management didn't exist. No, management is there for a reason. It's there as long as the rightful owners of the company want it so.

This isn't to say developer's don't often output their best work when they're given ample freedom. It's just that it's still up to the management.
Sure, it is completely up to management to make decisions but those decisions can also be criticised as I'm doing here. I'm not say they are not allowed to make decisions, I'm saying making a decision based on the notion that "women don't sell" is a flawed one.

Its not like we have these leaders choosing different genders for different games. The view of these leaders (and several others in the industry) is that they're always happy when developers make big games with men but they don't like it when developers want big games with women, and I think that's very shortsighted thinking which doesn't help the shareholders.
 
Sep 19, 2017
1,469
1,801
565
France
I'm not feeling bad for Ubisoft lmao.
I see at least one ex gaming journalist from France here. I would love to know why the video games press choose to shut up about what was going on at Ubi (they already did it with the homophobuis guy with the game on XBOX live while the story was everywhere in the US. They even chose NOT TO warm people in the reviews, and yes just like ubi did - and we all screamed with reasons about it and compared their stupid changes with SNK culture for exemple - they pretend to be... progressive.... like fuck you, you don't protect the youth when you're part of the press with Pokémon ads everywhere in your site!).

I'm telling you, we don't know the whole story yet! Just by far.

Edit: there are far more than one ex gaming journalist who have joined/worked to promote Ubi over the year. Remember that E3 presentation with the crappy musical game with the tansiometer add-on for the finger ? An other one.
 
Last edited:
Aug 26, 2018
2,126
2,786
475
Any sexual predator abusing their position to come onto male or female colleague should be fired on the spot and taken to court. HOWEVER, there better be some fucking proof because I am getting tired of this he said/she said accusations that are more valid on Twitter than an actual lawyer going after you. If you were "sexually assaulted" at work....what the fuck are you still doing there? I can understand you feel ashamed to maybe talk about it but why are you still at the same workplace? Are you telling me working for Ubisoft is some jackpot position that its worth getting "sexually assaulted" over and over? Please...If anything you can always go to Police.

If so many people "saw" this on a regular basis, now we are in 2020...what nobody thought to get their 4k iphone out under their coat and record this? Also, usually when you are assaulted at work, there is some sort of prior communication over email or text messages. How come there was never any text messages as proof from these accusers because for sure, there had to be something, not obvious but something like "hey, id really like to see you tonight". That alone doesnt sound predatory at all but their story would have more weight. My take is, because they flirted back as well and maybe had a thing for a few months and now the thing is called rape.

I just started watching the new Apple TV show - The Morning Show...deals with similar subject but the guy accused said something very thoughtful. "Since when is it a crime to have an affair" . Which is true, if he doesn't give a shit about his wife or kids, what does the public care. Why is he then accused as a rapist automatically because he found a new hotter secretary and pushed out the old one which still kept her job. In simple terms if this big boss guy is the monster he is, since they never have any SMS proof at least when accusing, that means he is so slick that he never used any media for communication but just took you by the hand and locked the office door and fucked you over the table. That sounds BS because even if that is the case, there is prior communication of the guy trying to slowly come on to you, send flowers, by expensive gifts etc. Its 2020, we arent using pigeons to send messages at 3am when you get horny, where is textual proof that at least you two were communicating about this or he/she was being abusive.

Theres a big difference between affair and rape.
 
Last edited:

B-universe

Banned
Mar 23, 2020
1,511
3,317
480
Sure, it is completely up to management to make decisions but those decisions can also be criticised as I'm doing here. I'm not say they are not allowed to make decisions, I'm saying making a decision based on the notion that "women don't sell" is a flawed one.

Its not like we have these leaders choosing different genders for different games. The view of these leaders (and several others in the industry) is that they're always happy when developers make big games with men but they don't like it when developers want big games with women, and I think that's very shortsighted thinking which doesn't help the shareholders.

If there's one thing management is supposed to do is crunch numbers. They have access to sales figures and breakdowns that you and I will never have. Their decisions are supposed to be informed by these figures.

I trust shareholders to look after their interests. That's what Ubisoft owners did when they elected the management, which they can kick out at their discretion. Management will keep their jobs as long as they perform, i. e., deliver good sales figures.

In this case specifically, and as a matter of principle, between the vague unsubstantiated assertion of an anonymous forum poster and the alleged decision by a higher-up who has access to hard data , whose chief goal is to score high sales and whose career depends on them, I just might default to the latter.
 
Last edited:

Kanton

Member
Dec 7, 2018
145
155
295
No, I'd just punch him to get things straight, no need for filling a process and ruining someone's life for such a trivial matter. Which is what Nazis are doing.

So in your life fantasy you are bigger and stronger than everyone else... i wish real life was like that, makes solving problems so easy.

So nazis are making formal complaints on trivial matters... not sure thats why humanity has a beef with nazis. Unless you are talking modern nazis, wich is even less formal than the ww2 ones. I`m confused and entertained in so many ways. Please elaborate.
 

Woopah

Member
Jun 15, 2019
1,470
1,594
380
If there's one thing management is supposed to do is crunch numbers. They have access to sales figures and breakdowns that you and I will never have. Their decisions are supposed to be informed by these figures.

I trust shareholders to look after their interests. That's what Ubisoft owners did when they elected the management, which they can kick out at their discretion. Management will keep their jobs as long as they perform, i. e., deliver good sales figures.

In this case specifically, and as a matter of principle, between the vague unsubstantiated assertion of an anonymous forum poster and the alleged decision by a higher-up who has access to hard data , whose chief goal is to score high sales and whose career depends on them, I just might default to the latter.
But couldn't that argument be used for any decision management makes? By that logic we could say "Nintendo management has access to hard data, so we should trust them that the Wii U will be successful and not anonymous forum posters who think it will fail". Same would apply to Sony's approach to the Vita or Microsoft with bundling Kinect with Xbox One. People with access to data make flawed decisions all the time, and even we anonymous forum posters have enough data to know that games with female leads can sell well.

Edit: To give a good example, Sony' management was very worried about Horizon because they had the same misconception that "Women don't sell". Guerilla Games had to fight to have a female lead, and Sony management carried out market research which showed they were wrong and that games with women can sell.
 
Last edited:

B-universe

Banned
Mar 23, 2020
1,511
3,317
480
But couldn't that argument be used for any decision management makes? By that logic we could say "Nintendo management has access to hard data, so we should trust them that the Wii U will be successful and not anonymous forum posters who think it will fail". Same would apply to Sony's approach to the Vita or Microsoft with bundling Kinect with Xbox One. People with access to data make flawed decisions all the time, and even we anonymous forum posters have enough data to know that games with female leads can sell well.

Edit: To give a good example, Sony' management was very worried about Horizon because they had the same misconception that "Women don't sell". Guerilla Games had to fight to have a female lead, and Sony management carried out market research which showed they were wrong and that games with women can sell.

And that's precisely why I said "unsubstantiated assertions", "alleged decisions" and "as a matter of principle".

Once you can demonstrate what their decision was, what their motivations were and where their mistakes lies, the conversation will move from the abstract and theoretical, where they have the upper hand as a matter of principle, to the actual, where facts speak louder than bombs.