mikefrails
Banned
Does he not have a sliver of a point though? Not saying this is the case but making a character female, male, or otherwise for diversity points shouldn't inspire happiness.
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UC4 Director Says They Had To Ask One 'Sexist Focus Tester' To Leave [Spoilers]
- Thread starter DarkLordMalik
- Start date
Puck Beaverton
Banned
Nadine is more interesting as a black female than if she was a white bald guy.
She kicked ass. Loved her as a character honestly they did that perfectly.
i hope to see even more diverse characters like her from naughty dog.
Like i understand why some unconscious biases happen and sometimes you need a diverse staff to help to make even better games when you may not have thought about certain things diversity wise.
Waddle Dee
Member
Is this real life?
GavinUK86
Member
What have you got against Cutter?
Old man, son, whatever, doesn't really bother me either way. Both could've worked.
alexbull_uk
Member
There's no need to worry, because The Last of Us 2 will feature ND's first female protag
It really doesn't matter what her skin color is, her character was bland as shit and underutilized.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
That is a big baby if I heard of one.
Chiggs
Member
This. Sad but true.
RedAssedApe
Banned
What have you got against Cutter?
Old man, son, whatever, doesn't really bother me either way. Both could've worked.
jason statham is in too many movies now.
There are no "diversity points." Nobody is keeping score. Considering both male and female possibilities for a role opens up more creative options, and subverting expectations usually leads to more interesting results. If nothing else, it leads to meaningful conversations.
Jawmuncher
Member
I have to agree with this. Really wish she had more to do. Especially since her resolution at the end is pretty meh.
Seraph_Nicholas
Member
I'm legitimately surprised this is the first we're hearing of it. I'd expect that shining beacon of intellect and good taste to run home and bawwwwww all over the internet about it.
After TLOU, it really doesn't make much sense.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
I didn't have a problem with the end, whether it was a son or daughter but was it just me or was it strange in the epilogue when ND had Nate and Elena's daughter on the cover of some Archaeology magazine when it was something Nate and Elena wanted to steer away from themselves by the end of the game. I know fortune hunter =/= archaeologist but I felt it lessened the reveal that Nate was a fortune hunter and also they appear to be setting her down their very same path they left.
I was slightly inebriated when I finished the game last weekend so I could be well wrong.
I was slightly inebriated when I finished the game last weekend so I could be well wrong.
mikefrails
Banned
People in the community will most definitely celebrate a dev for it's gender choices and they're aware of that.
SolidSnakex
Member
It's not really valuable if that's not the audience that ND wants. I reminds me of back when GTASA was releasing and one of the Houser's were interviewed about some of the reaction to CJ being the lead. And he said something along the lines of "We don't want those fucking people playing our games anyway".
Flame Lord
Member
Not really. The story would barely be any different had her character not existed at all.
Mushroomer25
Member
Frankly, I was disappointed with Nadine - especially after Naughty Dog was talking about the character during the casting controversy. Seemed like they were sticking with that casting primarily because the character was too unique to be done by another actress. Instead, she's
- who could have been played by just about anyone.
Compare this to Uncharted 2, who cast an interesting counter to Nate in Chloe - and even used a fairly cliche protagonist to call out all of the chaos that you cause during the game.
Generic Villain #4
Compare this to Uncharted 2, who cast an interesting counter to Nate in Chloe - and even used a fairly cliche protagonist to call out all of the chaos that you cause during the game.
Hellsing321
Member
It's sad that I'm now worried for the lead character artist's safety simply because she asked "what if it was a girl?"
Dragonslayer_023
Banned
Why? It would change literally nothing.
forknknife
Banned
Well I just spoiled myself the whole plot, awesome.
Frag Waffles
Member
Nadine was a kickass character. Uncharted is a fantasy game, her beating down two men didn't take me out of the moment at all. Even my GF was like damn she's awesome! Lol
Explain how better representation shouldn't inspire happiness.
eXistor
Member
Wow, I guess people can be internet stereotypes in real life too. Honestly, not until I read the OP here did I ever stop to think abou the female characters in the game. They work just fine. It literally wouldn't matter if they were male or female, which is what's so good about it and why you really can't have any problems with it, unless you're some kind of mysoginistic prick.
Labrynian Rebel
Member
TIL we don't need any female characters because NES Metroid exists. If you want to play as a girl, just play Metroid over and over again! What's the problem!?
mikefrails
Banned
Representation for representation's sake is concerning, especially when it's sparked by "what if she was a girl!?". Though I doubt that's how it actually goes down once the script has been finalized. It probably just sounded cool to imply that ND is hip and unbothered when it comes to gender, man.
Nadine being a black woman inherently makes her more interesting a character to me. How many smart, powerful black women do you see in big triple A games?
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I disagree with that. Nadine is far too competent and professional to be a generic villain. The truth is
she's really not much of a villain at all, just a bad-ass merc leader who's caught up in the whole thing because she's taken Rafe's money. And as Sully points out in chapter 10, she's not the sort of merc to switch sides on the promise of more cash.
This guy is pathetic just as much as the people who claimed that Laura Bailey should not have voiced Nadine.
I have a friend who got into voice acting. She is asian and she keeps getting remarks like 'you have an asian accent' although she's lived in France her whole life and French is her first language...
Oh narrow-mindedness...
I have a friend who got into voice acting. She is asian and she keeps getting remarks like 'you have an asian accent' although she's lived in France her whole life and French is her first language...
Oh narrow-mindedness...
Dice//
Banned
But...what does that even mean?
Good on them? Like, what's your beef here exactly? Keep in mind you're speaking to a woman; how can you turn me around to see your perspective? Because I'm happy to see more kickass ladies when I'm used to playing a guy like 80~90% of the time
mikefrails
Banned
Is it normal to have such a narrow worldview you have to be given tips on gender and race from a playtester? What world do these writers live in to where at the very least they don't recognize race and gender in a natural way already?
Representation doesn't happen until people start doing representation for representation's sake. We're already starting from a negative state due to literally centuries of entrenched bullshit, and you don't get representation just happening organically until people make efforts to change the status quo.
psychotron
Member
In both parts that were in question, Naughty Dog made the right choice. It just fit great that way.
Dice//
Banned
So I'm confused, are you concerned about representation for representation sake or the state of the world where it doesn't exist yet?
Perhaps, but I would say that his childish reaction would throw any credibility out of the window.
Hamster Plugin
Member
How do you think that characters are developed? I'm sure when people develop new characters, there's plenty of questions similar to "what if she was a girl?" concerning what the character's role is and what they look like.
If anything, the artist should have asked "what if she was a girl?" much more often with the generic baddies that you shoot. It's disappointing that ND did all-male enemies again, it just reinforces the fact that women are special and men are the default state.
Shrike_Priest
Member
need NG to just recreate Y: The Last Man in videogame form.
ALL THE FEMALES.
Seriously though.
Holy shit...
This is now my most wanted fictional game.
Y is a fricking perfect franchise for Naughty Dog. Tone. Scope. Theme. Everything.
mikefrails
Banned
But...what does that even mean?
Good on them? Like, what's your beef here exactly? Keep in mind you're speaking to a woman; how can you turn me around to see your perspective? Because I'm happy to see more kickass ladies when I'm used to playing a guy like 80~90% of the time
I don't think we should award people for not thinking like they come straight from 1960's Alabama. Is that what's going on? Maybe, but everything about Druckmann's responses makes it seem like to me that he's trying to get across how cool ND is about gender. Great job, but I would've bought the game anyway and so would've most people. What benefit in clarifying that they are indeed not social degenerates provide?
We might think his opinion sucks but, on another level, I don't see the problem actually. There are a subset of people who might not be happy with some of the game's elements and he represented them. I guess that's the point of focus testing, is it not?
Anyway, I haven't played the game but ended up randomly seeing someone play and I quite liked Nadine. Yet, it's sort of interesting that she always beat up on Nate but the bad guy
actually
unprovoked. It did make me wonder, for a moment, whether a male protogonist could beat up a female villain in hand-to-hand combat and come out looking good in a realistically rendered game (with fleshed-out characters) like uncharted. They'd have to portray her as a real b in order to have it coming and, even then, I think some people would be upset.
BTW, AFAIK none of Nadine's death-fodder that Nate shoots and strangles all game were female. This is not what people think about when they ask for more females in games. Therefore I'm guessing that the disposables will likely continue to have virtual dick whether the important characters are male or female. I remember System Shock 2 had cyborg midwives that were the female spaceship crew mutiliated and programmed to tend to alien coccoons. It's possible that being female made then more disturbing since I think it was still rather rare to have female human grunt enemies in games. Nonetheless, they had lost some of their humanity due to becoming basically robots with fleshy bits. I'm not sure how people would react to hordes of realistically rendered women being gunned down or beaten up. I certainly haven't played a game like that.
Anyway, I haven't played the game but ended up randomly seeing someone play and I quite liked Nadine. Yet, it's sort of interesting that she always beat up on Nate but the bad guy
Rafe
hit her
BTW, AFAIK none of Nadine's death-fodder that Nate shoots and strangles all game were female. This is not what people think about when they ask for more females in games. Therefore I'm guessing that the disposables will likely continue to have virtual dick whether the important characters are male or female. I remember System Shock 2 had cyborg midwives that were the female spaceship crew mutiliated and programmed to tend to alien coccoons. It's possible that being female made then more disturbing since I think it was still rather rare to have female human grunt enemies in games. Nonetheless, they had lost some of their humanity due to becoming basically robots with fleshy bits. I'm not sure how people would react to hordes of realistically rendered women being gunned down or beaten up. I certainly haven't played a game like that.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
They still treasure hunt, they just do it legit, and not illegally like the old days. They get the permits, do the science, etc. the result seems to be a more satisfying life.
Nadine's amazing.
Sure she could & should have had more scenes but I really like what they did with the few scenes that they had.
A couple of subtle twists make her far from generic.She's far better than any of the villain "sidekicks" we've seen so far.
mikefrails
Banned
But is your goal as a writer to be a social beacon of hope? Going back to the 'narrow worldview' comment, it takes too many assumptions to nail what UC4's writing staff's collective worldview is. All I have to go off of is Druckmann's response in the OP and it comes off as brown nosing.
Yes!
I wonder if Guerilla Games had to struggle to have a woman for their new AAA sci fi project, Horizon.
Shu had to focus test that game to get approval from the suits and it worked.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
I used to be like that but I was also 8. How people haven't grown out of that mentality is baffling to me.
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