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UC4 Game Director Justin Richmond Leaves ND (And famousmortimer leaves GAF #1393)

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noobasuar

Banned
Nov 2, 2008
2,999
0
0
You don't think The Order 1886 will be out by fall? I do... I just think it's going to be completely mediocre.

No I don't think it will be out by Fall because the gameplay footage they've shown so far looked janky as hell.

But I guess we'll have a clearer picture at E3 on what will make it out this fall and what won't.
 

StuBurns

Banned
Jan 9, 2008
69,543
0
0
It happens. Prey 2 was in production and publicly revealed at E3, to a positive response. Shitcanned, dev closed, restarted elsewhere. See also 2K and XCOM FPS.

Some pubs have a tendency to burn money more than others.
But Sony isn't usually one of those publishers. TakeTwo have a history of $80M+ projects, Sony really doesn't.

GT5 was their biggest budget title, and it was less, and shipped.
 

Vire

Member
Aug 16, 2009
26,233
152
1,075
Look at the devs, they have yet to deliver a mediocre title. Have faith.

Have faith in what?

The gameplay reveal they did a few months back was completely uninspired and incredibly disappointing.

I have yet to see anything of that game that inspires confidence.
 
Feb 17, 2010
6,723
0
710
CT
www.doddscientifics.com
There are reasons why Sony lost a lot of money during the PS3 years. They are trying not to repeat that.


People losing jobs sucks. I feel for the SSM guys and everyone else. But Sony needs to run a tighter ship if they want to make money. They can't allow teams to piss around for years with nothing to show. That's why they completely restructured Japan Studio. Those guys had dozens of games that were going nowhere. It's why they shuttered Zipper. MAG, while amazing - imo, was an expensive failure. Socom 4 was an expensive failure. They closed them down.

Now they are tightening up on teams that aren't delivering. It sucks - but it makes sense. The playstation division is in strong state right now. The PS3 is finally making money for them, the PS4 is off to best start in console history, and they are correcting the money-wasting mistakes of the prior generation. I'm not saying we should have a party now - there are clearly hurdles to overcome. Stig's game being gone created a giant hole in their lineup. The driveclub delay is the cause of enormous worry for many PS4 fans. The timing of these things has tinfoil hats flying everywhere. Sony corporate has very big problems it needs to handle. Shit isn't all rosy at sony - i'm not trying to say that. But it's not doom and gloom either. These are all separate events that happened for very logical reasons when you look at them individually.
 

GameAddict411

Member
Aug 4, 2013
5,494
0
0
The news about Stig and SSM blows my mind. I would figure if you gave the GOW3 team that much time and money, magic would happen. I guess Sony thought the same.

Even if they managed to release it, at that level of cost it will need to sell at least 4 mil to be profitable. Something that a new IP will really struggle to do.
 
Dec 11, 2012
22,033
1
0
There are reasons why Sony lost a lot of money during the PS3 years. They are trying not to repeat that.


People losing jobs sucks. I feel for the SSM guys and everyone else. But Sony needs to run a tighter ship if they want to make money. They can't allow teams to piss around for years with nothing to show. That's why they completely restructured Japan Studio. Those guys had dozens of games that were going nowhere. It's why they shuttered Zipper. MAG, while amazing - imo, was an expensive failure. Socom 4 was an expensive failure. They closed them down.

Now they are tightening up on teams that aren't delivering. It sucks - but it makes sense. The playstation division is in strong state right now. The PS3 is finally making money for them, the PS4 is off to best start in console history, and they are correcting the money-wasting mistakes of the prior generation. I'm not saying we should have a party now - there are clearly hurdles to overcome. Stig's game being gone created a giant hole in their lineup. The driveclub delay is the cause of enormous worry for many PS4 fans. The timing of these things has tinfoil hats flying everywhere. Sony corporate has very big problems it needs to handle. Shit isn't all rosy at sony - i'm not trying to say that. But it's not doom and gloom either. These are all separate events that happened for very logical reasons when you look at them individually.

Wait, was Stig's game PS4 or PS3?
 

SolidSnakeUS

Member
Aug 1, 2013
8,394
2
0
There are reasons why Sony lost a lot of money during the PS3 years. They are trying not to repeat that.


People losing jobs sucks. I feel for the SSM guys and everyone else. But Sony needs to run a tighter ship if they want to make money. They can't allow teams to piss around for years with nothing to show. That's why they completely restructured Japan Studio. Those guys had dozens of games that were going nowhere. It's what they shuttered Zipper. MAG, while amazing - imo, was an expensive failure. Socom 4 was an expensive failure. They closed them down.

Now they are tightening up on teams that aren't delivering. It sucks - but it makes sense. The playstation division is in strong state right now. The PS3 is finally making money for them, the PS4 is off to best start in console history, and they are correcting the money-wasting mistakes of the prior generation. I'm not saying we should have a party now - there are clearly hurdles to overcome. Stig's game being gone created a giant hole in their lineup. The driveclub delay is the cause of enormous worry for many PS4 fans. The timing of these things has tinfoil hats flying everywhere. Sony corporate has very big problems it needs to handle. Shit isn't all rosy at sony - i'm not trying to say that. But it's not doom and gloom either. These are all separate events that happened for very logical reasons when you look at them individually.

Basically, if you suck, you get the squeeze and if not nothing better then, you're gone or people are gone. And since Sony isn't like MS or Nintendo, they can't just crap out money like nothing.
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
Sep 25, 2005
55,613
6
1,440
Is SSM still split into multiple teams? I figure one is making GOW4.
 
Sep 20, 2005
18,630
635
1,800
Guys, I'm sure the last 6 months of the year will see more than just Driveclub, The Order and The Last of Us port. E3 will open up alot to us.
 

DarkLordMalik

Member
Aug 15, 2010
12,060
3
0
twitter.com
Have faith in what?

The gameplay reveal they did a few months back was completely uninspired and incredibly disappointing.

I have yet to see anything of that game that inspires confidence.
You mean that few seconds of gameplay? Come on. Are you really going to base your judgement on that few moments. Wait for E3 and a better gameplay reveal, or a full blown demo like Naughty Dog's The Last of Us, before you form your judgement about final game.
 

dragonbane

Member
Jun 27, 2012
9,244
2
555
Germany
Pretty much, yeah. They started concept on it before GoW 3 shipped. Once GoW 3 shipped the moved to Darkside. They didn't have online or DLC or shit like that to worry about. They jumped right into the next project.


The game initially was supposed to be out this year. It's been clear for a couple years now that wasn't gonna happen... but it does explain the giant hole in their fall lineup. Thankfully for them... Driveclub will be there to attempt to fill it, a bit.
But SSM only had like 200 people IIRC? Weren't most of them working on Ascension till 2013?




What a great post.


It takes a lot to deplete my enjoyment that quickly, believe me. And I had read here and elsewhere that the rooftop scene wasn't the only part of the game to do this, and I really wasn't in the mood for more.
Let's hope for some better games on PS4.
 

SniperHunter

Banned
Mar 18, 2012
18,021
0
0
Caledon, Ontario
There are reasons why Sony lost a lot of money during the PS3 years. They are trying not to repeat that.


People losing jobs sucks. I feel for the SSM guys and everyone else. But Sony needs to run a tighter ship if they want to make money. They can't allow teams to piss around for years with nothing to show. That's why they completely restructured Japan Studio. Those guys had dozens of games that were going nowhere. It's why they shuttered Zipper. MAG, while amazing - imo, was an expensive failure. Socom 4 was an expensive failure. They closed them down.

Now they are tightening up on teams that aren't delivering. It sucks - but it makes sense. The playstation division is in strong state right now. The PS3 is finally making money for them, the PS4 is off to best start in console history, and they are correcting the money-wasting mistakes of the prior generation. I'm not saying we should have a party now - there are clearly hurdles to overcome. Stig's game being gone created a giant hole in their lineup. The driveclub delay is the cause of enormous worry for many PS4 fans. The timing of these things has tinfoil hats flying everywhere. Sony corporate has very big problems it needs to handle. Shit isn't all rosy at sony - i'm not trying to say that. But it's not doom and gloom either. These are all separate events that happened for very logical reasons when you look at them individually.

your posts are incredible bro

what is Cory's team working on atm? Another God of War?
 

StuBurns

Banned
Jan 9, 2008
69,543
0
0
I think none of this is going to matter come E3. Sony are choosing to announce nothing and live with the online negativity because they know it's not going to hurt PS4 in the next few months, but I'm not sure if that's the right stance.

They should announce UC4's directors and TLoU PS4 next week and kill the venom.
 

Off-Kilter

Banned
Mar 23, 2011
5,161
0
0
NYC
So uh.

Time to panic yet?

Someone let me know when it's time to panic.

EDIT: Read famousmortimer's post. Realized my reaction was pretty kneejerk so disregard.
 

Melchiah

Member
Sep 21, 2006
26,741
24
1,375
45
Helsinki, Finland
www.youtube.com
It's important to note, that even before this recent exodus of talent and tound of layoffs sony are not what they were during the ps3 era

Team ico is all but kaput, insomniac are working with microsoft, zipper dead, sony liverpool dead, big huge games, incognito, superbot etc

Ninja theory is making cellphone games (i believe), united front are making watch dogs etc

This is worrying stuff

While I mourn for the loss of Studio Liverpool and Amy Hennig, that's not the whole truth. There's a positive side as well, namely the acquisition of Guerrilla, Media Molecule, Sucker Punch, and Evolution. They also seem to have strong ties with Quantic Dream, based on the still continuing exclusives.

Insomniac's works were a mixed bag, when it comes to commercial and/or critical success. The same goes for the other studios you listed, Liverpool included. WipEout HD wasn't such a success saleswise, unfortunately. Arcade racing seems to be a niche genre nowadays.

And Studio Japan was in a state of disarray, with 40-something titles in production, before Allan Becker from Santa Monica was appointed there.
 

Donthizz#

Member
May 1, 2011
4,571
0
0
Earth
hey Mort, in your opinion is Shu's job safe? I don't think higher ups at Sony i.e. Andrew House isn't that happy about what went down at SSM.
 

Vire

Member
Aug 16, 2009
26,233
152
1,075
I think none of this is going to matter come E3. Sony are choosing to announce nothing and live with the online negativity because they know it's not going to hurt PS4 in the next few months, but I'm not sure if that's the right stance.

They should announce UC4's directors and TLoU PS4 next week and kill the venom.

Dodging TLoU PS4 announcement is particularly bizarre to me. Who are they fooling?

Just do what Ubisoft did with Unity...
 

ultratruman

Banned
Oct 28, 2013
3,481
0
0
Glasgow
Guerrilla Games will be untouched by the house cleaning, and other studios will suffer because Shadowfall sold well thanks entirely to aggressive bundling.

They've never delivered on the promise of what a first party FPS franchise like Killzone could be, yet for some reason Sony still give them a AAA budget to ship a middling 2 million units for their games. Being technically capable isn't enough when you're going to be compared to Battlefield, Call of Duty and Halo.

They should've shuttered the place and flushed Killzone down the toilet at the end of the last generation. Guerrilla Cambridge's vita game was the best entry that franchise has ever had, they should expand that studio instead.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Jun 10, 2004
59,895
2
0
Windsor, UK
There are reasons why Sony lost a lot of money during the PS3 years. They are trying not to repeat that.


People losing jobs sucks. I feel for the SSM guys and everyone else. But Sony needs to run a tighter ship if they want to make money. They can't allow teams to piss around for years with nothing to show. That's why they completely restructured Japan Studio. Those guys had dozens of games that were going nowhere. It's why they shuttered Zipper. MAG, while amazing - imo, was an expensive failure. Socom 4 was an expensive failure. They closed them down.

Now they are tightening up on teams that aren't delivering. It sucks - but it makes sense. The playstation division is in strong state right now. The PS3 is finally making money for them, the PS4 is off to best start in console history, and they are correcting the money-wasting mistakes of the prior generation. I'm not saying we should have a party now - there are clearly hurdles to overcome. Stig's game being gone created a giant hole in their lineup. The driveclub delay is the cause of enormous worry for many PS4 fans. The timing of these things has tinfoil hats flying everywhere. Sony corporate has very big problems it needs to handle. Shit isn't all rosy at sony - i'm not trying to say that. But it's not doom and gloom either. These are all separate events that happened for very logical reasons when you look at them individually.

While eminently sensible as always, don't you think it is a little early to do this? Or is it the perfect time while they are atill in the honeymoon period? I'd have thought they could have done that more during the end of the PS3 generation so as not to disturb the PS4 launch.
 

StuBurns

Banned
Jan 9, 2008
69,543
0
0
Dodging TLoU PS4 announcement is particularly bizarre to me. Who are they fooling?

Just do what Ubisoft did with Unity...
I don't understand the industry's stance on leaks. An exec of SOE talks about Sony's VR headset, you announce it, the cat's out the bag. TLoU was an obvious candidate for PS4, everyone wants it, now they've let it slip, just announce it. Pretending it didn't happen is the corporate equivalent of a child holding their hands over their ears shouting "la la la, I can't hear you".
 

bigboss370

Member
Oct 31, 2009
14,209
0
680
It's important to note, that even before this recent exodus of talent and tound of layoffs sony are not what they were during the ps3 era

Team ico is all but kaput, insomniac are working with microsoft, zipper dead, sony liverpool dead, big huge games, incognito, superbot etc

Ninja theory is making cellphone games (i believe), united front are making watch dogs etc

This is worrying stuff

team ico has been helping on stuff like Rain & Knack, Media Molecule has given us LBP and Tearaway games, Sony's gotten into VR, RAD is making an exclusive PS4 game for Sony, Sucker Punch gained status with infamous 1&2 last gen and now Second Son, Evolution started motorstorm and now driveclub...etc etc....


things change and evolve all the time
 

SniperHunter

Banned
Mar 18, 2012
18,021
0
0
Caledon, Ontario
Guerrilla Games will be untouched by the house cleaning, and other studios will suffer because Shadowfall sold well thanks entirely to aggressive bundling.

They've never delivered on the promise of what a first party FPS franchise like Killzone could be, yet for some reason Sony still give them a AAA budget to ship a middling 2 million units for their games. Being technically capable isn't enough when you're going to be compared to Battlefield, Call of Duty and Halo.

They should've shuttered the place and flushed Killzone down the toilet at the end of the last generation. Guerrilla Cambridge's vita game was the best entry that franchise has ever had, they should expand that studio instead.

GG is safe because they get a lot of tax breaks in Amsterdam. I guess it doesn't cost that much $$ to operate the studio out there and Killzone Shadow Fall sold well enough.

They need to improve some more though. They have come a long way from producing shit titles like Shellshock Vietnam to good titles like Killzone 2 or 3, but they still have a lot to learn
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
Jan 31, 2006
30,530
0
1,270
33
Another GoW?

After the financial disappointment of Ascension wouldn't they move on from the franchise?

It'll be chalked up to franchise fatigue at the end of a generation. Same thing with GT6 posting disappointing numbers.

I think GOW4 is going to be an incredibly different experience than what's come before though.
 

shwimpy

Member
Oct 20, 2009
10,364
0
0
GG is safe because they get a lot of tax breaks in Amsterdam. I guess it doesn't cost that much $$ to operate the studio out there and Killzone Shadow Fall sold well enough.

They need to improve some more though. They have come a long way from producing shit titles like Shellshock Vietnam to good titles like Killzone 2 or 3, but they still have a lot to learn
They are also hard at work on a new IP so now is not the time to downsize that company.
 

Loudninja

Member
Jul 30, 2007
53,089
0
0
31
Chicago
Guerrilla Games will be untouched by the house cleaning, and other studios will suffer because Shadowfall sold well thanks entirely to aggressive bundling.

They've never delivered on the promise of what a first party FPS franchise like Killzone could be, yet for some reason Sony still give them a AAA budget to ship a middling 2 million units for their games. Being technically capable isn't enough when you're going to be compared to Battlefield, Call of Duty and Halo.

They should've shuttered the place and flushed Killzone down the toilet at the end of the last generation. Guerrilla Cambridge's vita game was the best entry that franchise has ever had, they should expand that studio instead.
This again really?

They did what they suppose to, they made a launch game that in fact sold well, hwy in the world should anything happen to them?
 

Gorillaz

Member
Jun 13, 2012
29,861
0
0
Guerrilla Games will be untouched by the house cleaning, and other studios will suffer because Shadowfall sold well thanks entirely to aggressive bundling.

They've never delivered on the promise of what a first party FPS franchise like Killzone could be, yet for some reason Sony still give them a AAA budget to ship a middling 2 million units for their games. Being technically capable isn't enough when you're going to be compared to Battlefield, Call of Duty and Halo.

They should've shuttered the place and flushed Killzone down the toilet at the end of the last generation. Guerrilla Cambridge's vita game was the best entry that franchise has ever had, they should expand that studio instead.
This has been my biggest problem with GG as well

They constantly have "middle of the road" on their releases yet they get a pass becasue they are the graphic juggernaut.

Killzone has never really touched the big boys in the shooter arena and it just over the years have come off as a "me too" thing from Sony. SF was probably enough to just keep it afloat tho
 

Dragon1893

Member
Feb 20, 2013
12,388
0
0
I don't know what cambridge is working on. I don't think they know. I think they slimmed down as they figure out what they are doing next. If/when that's approved, they will hire people again. Many studios operate like this. Especially lower-tier ones like GC.





I heard various numbers between 75mil and 90 mil for stig's game. I said "almost 100" because, well, both are almost 100 mil. They restarted the game, from scratch, THREE TIMES! And it sucked every time. The whole "it was too much like destiny" thing is bullshit. It was more horror-ish and like Dead Space than Destiny. That whole thing was sony jumping on the grenade to help stig save face. And help themselves save face as they wasted a fucking TON of money.

I have a hard time believing those numbers.

Anyway, I'll do the same I did in the Amy thread, wish him the best of luck.
I don't have the patience for all the drama.
 

IAmRandom31

Banned
Aug 4, 2013
12,790
0
0
I don't understand the industry's stance on leaks. An exec of SOE talks about Sony's VR headset, you announce it, the cat's out the bag. TLoU was an obvious candidate for PS4, everyone wants it, now they've let it slip, just announce it. Pretending it didn't happen is the corporate equivalent of a child holding their hands over their ears shouting "la la la, I can't hear you".

Its because in the corporate world everything is planned and scheduled and strategized and whatnot.

I'm sure they have a 2014 schedule for the best time to announce project A as it does not dampen the hype around Project B or C or D. They will announce indie project A's release date after project B's release as to not dampen sales of that project.

Shit like that. And when a wrench is thrown into the middle of your plans, it is not just a knee-jerk reaction of " oooo man .. that sucks ... but yeah we are working on that ". They may of had an entire 10 minute section of E3 dedicated to that special announcement with Druckmann on stage, etc. They may of planned that announcement followed by TLOU 2 footage or something like that. Now because of the premature leak, they have to go in and redo the entire presentation and call people up to cancel plans or to change speeches, or whatever.

You never know what sort of planning is going on behind the scenes for each and every project. But there is planning.
 

dragonbane

Member
Jun 27, 2012
9,244
2
555
Germany
SSM had over 250 plus people before Stig game got cancel .
I don't think so. Last official number before the lay-offs was 240 from the founder and head herself: http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/so...side-home-for-santa-monica-studio-1201074462/

Considering they must have at least like 20 people working on other games (helping RaD, porting flower, SoundShapes etc. to PS4) I can't imagine them having more than 100 people per team. And Ascension probably had like 130-150 people working on it in the final year.


Another GoW?

After the financial disappointment of Ascension wouldn't they move on from the franchise?
Cory Barlog was hired for a reason. Rumours say it's a reboot of GoW.
 

Vire

Member
Aug 16, 2009
26,233
152
1,075
Another GoW?

After the financial disappointment of Ascension wouldn't they move on from the franchise?

Non-numbered sequels typically don't sell as well for whatever reason. Take a look at the massive spike in sales when Halo 4 was released versus ODST and Reach.

I doubt they'll can the God of War series, even though I wish they would move on from Kratos and do something else. Maybe a different setting is enough to refresh the series a bit... Norse Mythology or something.
 
Nov 18, 2013
28
0
0
Guys, I'm sure the last 6 months of the year will see more than just Driveclub, The Order and The Last of Us port. E3 will open up alot to us.


We need more of this optimism right now.

They know what they are doing. Once a year I do a general cleaning at my house, move some furnitures where they might be more appreciated, or sell them. Maybe same logic applies.
 
Mar 27, 2008
18,346
292
1,325
Buffalo
goo.gl
There are reasons why Sony lost a lot of money during the PS3 years. They are trying not to repeat that.


People losing jobs sucks. I feel for the SSM guys and everyone else. But Sony needs to run a tighter ship if they want to make money. They can't allow teams to piss around for years with nothing to show. That's why they completely restructured Japan Studio. Those guys had dozens of games that were going nowhere. It's why they shuttered Zipper. MAG, while amazing - imo, was an expensive failure. Socom 4 was an expensive failure. They closed them down.

Now they are tightening up on teams that aren't delivering. It sucks - but it makes sense. The playstation division is in strong state right now. The PS3 is finally making money for them, the PS4 is off to best start in console history, and they are correcting the money-wasting mistakes of the prior generation. I'm not saying we should have a party now - there are clearly hurdles to overcome. Stig's game being gone created a giant hole in their lineup. The driveclub delay is the cause of enormous worry for many PS4 fans. The timing of these things has tinfoil hats flying everywhere. Sony corporate has very big problems it needs to handle. Shit isn't all rosy at sony - i'm not trying to say that. But it's not doom and gloom either. These are all separate events that happened for very logical reasons when you look at them individually.

Great posts, I missed a few of them initially because I didn't see your OG avatar!
 
May 16, 2011
41,855
10
620
does this really surprise anyone? western gaming culture lacks the honor, and sacrifice, of the east. this wouldn't happen in japan as it would bring shame to the family. i don't care who you are in a company, mail guy or top executive. you don't abandon your company, you move up in the ranks when the opportunity is given to you.
 

Dahaka

Member
Jun 7, 2013
2,045
2
470
I want GG to stay, they do technical stuff very very good. I want stuff like MADDER to continue. It's a good basis and about the rest I'm hopeful they'll improve and admit that Killzone 2 was the amazing work they should have built further upon. (;
 

tino

Banned
May 25, 2005
12,948
0
0
They are follow Tretton to Amazon to make the next "Citizen Kane of Video Games", Riot being brought by Amazon confirmed!
 
Dec 11, 2012
22,033
1
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I don't think so. Last official number before the lay-offs was 240 from the founder and head herself: http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/so...side-home-for-santa-monica-studio-1201074462/

Considering they must have at least like 20 people working on other games (helping RaD, porting flower, SoundShapes etc. to PS4) I can't imagine them having more than 100 people per team. And Ascension probably had like 130-150 people working on it in the final year.



Cory Barlog was hired for a reason. Rumours say it's a reboot of GoW.

Well, if it's a reboot that makes more sense,
considering how GoW III ended
 
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