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UK Nanny State | Oi guv, that there's an assault spoon, innit?

Whitesnake

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It's always been illegal to carry a knife unless it's ceremonial or for work, and in both cases, being obvious. We don't believe in weapons here, that's by the police regulars do not carry guns,
But knife crime's still a thing, right?

In fact it's a fairly big problem in the UK, from what I'm hearing.

So evidently those laws aren't actually working, and the police are just arresting people who value their own safety while the gang members, who never cared about the law in the first place, go undeterred.

Great job, smart decision.
 
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MilkyJoe

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But knife crime's still a thing, right?

In fact it's a fairly big problem in the UK, from what I'm hearing.

So evidently those laws aren't actually working, and the police are just arresting people who value their own safety while the gang members, who never cared about the law in the first place, go undeterred.

Great job, smart decision.
The reason it spiraled is because of police cuts, idiots that think that intelligence policing is better than boots on the street, and leftist campaigns against police powers at targeting certain demographics, because it's racist, and the big one is the lunatic judges that let these kids off with a slapped wrist, which gives the impression that it's a consequence free crime.

Knife crime is almost entirely gang related. Regular folk don't carry knives, we're not the target.

Hows the gun crime in the US btw?
 

MilkyJoe

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Yeah, that's not really representative of the reality, is it, Brian?

Same article



That's 280 in a population of 65,000,000, in 2017

Knife crime totals are every single recorded crime with anything pointy, The majority being threats and robbery, getting a wee dig, a bottle around the head.
 
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That's 280 people in a population of 65,000,000
Seems like a fairly insignificant issue for them to confiscate everybody's bat'leths over. Why are you okay giving up your freedom over something which represents a problem to 0.0004% of the population? Even if you look at 40,000 knife offenses, that's still only 0.06% of the population. Personally, I'd wait until it was a more prevalent danger before curbing the civil rights of the population.
 
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Whitesnake

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The reason it spiraled is because of police cuts, idiots that think that intelligence policing is better than boots on the street, and leftist campaigns against police powers at targeting certain demographics, because it's racist, and the big one is the lunatic judges that let these kids off with a slapped wrist, which gives the impression that it's a consequence free crime.

Knife crime is almost entirely gang related. Regular folk don't carry knives, we're not the target.

Hows the gun crime in the US btw?
Funny you mention gun crime.

One could argue gun crime is prevalent because of our emphasis on our constitutional right to bear arms and resistance to regulation.

However, knife crime in the UK is prevalent DESPITE the heavy restrictions. You let your freedoms get taken away and you're not even safer because of it.

Too much freedom in the US is a pretty good problem to have in comparison to the UK government which is taking away your rights to free speech and self-defense in the name of safety without actually making it safer.

There's actually a much more analogous situation, the war on drugs. People get weed whether it's legal or not. At that point you're arresting people who haven't wronged anyone and didn't intend to. The difference being that you can't use a joint for self-defense.
 
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MilkyJoe

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Seems like a fairly insignificant issue for them to confiscate everybody's bat'leths over. Why are you okay giving up your freedom over something which represents a problem to 0.0004% of the population? Even if you look at 40,000 knife offenses, that's still only 0.06% of the population. Personally, I'd wait until it was a more prevalent danger before curbing the civil rights of the population.

Because, as a nation, we have never felt the need to carry weapons. There is literally no need, as you pointed out yourself the risk is so minuscule, there would be no point. We don't have, and never have had, a right to bare arms constitution, so we are giving up nothing. It's not our bag, baby.

PS, the bat'leth story is also full of shit, this table contains more than a Star Trek toy (that has so obviously been sharpened and modified.) It's like people are unwilling to look facts in the face, to sell a scoop, or for some silly internet one -up-man-ship (is that how that's written? I've never typed that before)

 

MilkyJoe

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Funny you mention gun crime.

One could argue gun crime is prevalent because of our emphasis on our constitutional right to bear arms and resistance to regulation.

However, knife crime in the UK is prevalent DESPITE the heavy restrictions. You let your freedoms get taken away and you're not even safer because of it.

Too much freedom in the US is a pretty good problem to have in comparison to the UK government which is taking away your rights to free speech and self-defense in the name of safety without actually making it safer.

There's actually a much more analogous situation, the war on drugs. People get weed whether it's legal or not. The difference being that you can't use a joint for self-defense.
It's not prevalent. It's barely a thing, 2 or three wannabe gang-bangers killing each other a day, on some shit-hole estate in Hackney, has no baring on my life on the coast.
 

Whitesnake

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It's not prevalent. It's barely a thing, 2 or three wannabe gang-bangers killing each other a day, on some shit-hole estate in Hackney, has no baring on my life on the coast.





Whatever you say, mate.
 
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MilkyJoe

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Whatever you say, mate.
Once more for those at the back



280 / 365 = 0.76 killings a day in a population of 65 million

All crimes with a sharp object are recorded as knife crime. So all in with that 40,000 recorded crimes figure, that's 1:1625 chance that it'll happen to you. But then if you account for the fact that most of the population would never be in that position in the first place...
 

Trojita

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Well you hand picked a video from one of the biggest shitholes in the country. Gangstars will be gangstars
If you lived in Birmingham would you consider carrying a knife for personal protection if it is that big of a shithole?
 

MilkyJoe

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If you lived in Birmingham would you consider carrying a knife for personal protection if it is that big of a shithole?
I wouldn't live in Birmingham. And no, because the law still says you are not allowed to carry a knife. I've lived in Croydon and never arried a knife. Also a proper shithole. and in the 4 years I was there I only saw one punch up.
 
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Trojita

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I wouldn't live in Birmingham. And no, because the law still says you are not allowed to carry a knife.
Why does such a law exist? Have they brought knife attacks down? Committing a crime with a knife or having possession of a knife used in a crime should be enough. They jail people for months for simply just carrying a knife.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42749089
The average prison term for those jailed for carrying a knife or other offensive weapon has gone up from almost five months to well over eight months, with 85% serving at least three months, compared with 53% only 10 years ago.
 

Whitesnake

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Once more for those at the back



280 / 365 = 0.76 killings a day in a population of 65 million

All crimes with a sharp object are recorded as knife crime. So all in with that 40,000 recorded crimes figure, that's 1:1625 chance that it'll happen to you. But then if you account for the fact that most of the population would never be in that position in the first place...

There were about 50,000 gun-related *incidents in ths US in 2018. Source

US has a population of 327 million.

That's about 1:7,000

If knife crime isn’t prevalent in the UK, gun crime isn’t prevalent in the US.
 
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dionysus

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There were about 50,000 gun-related *incidents in ths US in 2018. Source

US has a population of 327 million.

That's about 1:7,000

If knife crime isn’t prevalent in the UK, gun crime isn’t prevalent in the US.
Check your math. You used just one year, he summed up 40 years. Apples to apples makes the US look way worse.

But despite that, I don't accept his argument. People should be able to take precaution against even rare events. Especially since the banning is completely ineffective. Law abiding citizens can't protect themselves, criminals are going to use knives regardless.
 
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autoduelist

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Most gun deaths in the US are suicide (around 63%), and disingenuous charts and articles include them in statistics which throws stats off. Studies show Suicide rates are not affected by gun ownership rates - suicide in the US is on par with western countries with strict regulation.

Most gun homicides are gang related, and mostly with illegally owned guns. There are certainly non-gang related murders as well, but there are those everywhere and people intent on murdering someone will often find a way. If you are not in a gang, gun violence is not something you need to worry about in the states. Violence is tied to gangs, drugs, and cities... the same people who turn to knives and rusty spoons.
 
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MilkyJoe

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There were about 50,000 gun-related *incidents in ths US in 2018. Source

US has a population of 327 million.

That's about 1:7,000

If knife crime isn’t prevalent in the UK, gun crime isn’t prevalent in the US.
Death via pointy object in the UK is 1:232, 142.86 for some perspective
 
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MilkyJoe

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Most gun homicides are gang related, and mostly with illegally owned guns. There are certainly non-gang related murders as well, but there are those everywhere and people intent on murdering someone will often find a way. If you are not in a gang, gun violence is not something you need to worry about in the states. Violence is tied to gangs, drugs, and cities... the same people who turn to knives and rusty spoons.
It's the same most of the world over. I've been to the US loads of times and the only time I felt threatened was when my missus flashed 5 grand in cash in Orlando and we had to do a quick runner.
 

Whitesnake

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Death via pointy object in the UK is 1:232, 142.86 for some perspective
Not deaths, incidents. It says right on the link I posted what “incident” means in this context. Basically any situation where somebody was shot for any reason other than intentional suicide.

According to the BBC, there were 39,000 knife crimes in 2018, with 19,000 knife assaults that caused injury.

With just knife assaults that caused injury, that’s about 1:3,400.
 

MilkyJoe

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Not deaths, incidents. It says right on the link I posted what “incident” means in this context. Basically any situation where somebody was shot for any reason other than intentional suicide.

According to the BBC, there were 39,000 knife crimes in 2018, with 19,000 knife assaults that caused injury.

With just knife assaults that caused injury, that’s about 1:3,400.
I know what incidents means, but death is everyone's personal priority, hence the highlight. And again, these incidents have a very limited scope of to who and where they occur. See @autoduelist post above.
 
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Because, as a nation, we have never felt the need to carry weapons.
Obviously, you aren’t speaking for everyone in your nation, or else this thread wouldn’t exist.

There is literally no need, as you pointed out yourself the risk is so minuscule, there would be no point.
I happen to believe that self defense constitutes a legitimate reason to carry a weapon on your person, even if all it does it bring a little peace of mind. A knife only becomes a weapon when it is used a one. It is like outlawing inappropriate jokes because someone might be offended... oh... UK is fucked.

We don't have, and never have had, a right to bare arms constitution, so we are giving up nothing.
Between this thread and the clown world thread, it is pretty obvious that the UK is not in the healthiest place, socially and politically, and if you think you aren’t giving up anything, it is only because you’ve already given up everything.
 

Trojita

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7331099.stm

From 2008

Ban on samurai swords becomes law

Those breaking the law face six months in jail and a £5,000 fine. Carrying a sword in public is already illegal.

Exemptions will cover swords which are used for re-enactments or antique weapons kept on display by collectors.

Anyone found guilty of importing samurai swords will face up to seven years in prison and an unlimited fine.
What a joke.
 
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MilkyJoe

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Obviously, you aren’t speaking for everyone in your nation, or else this thread wouldn’t exist.


I happen to believe that self defense constitutes a legitimate reason to carry a weapon on your person, even if all it does it bring a little peace of mind. A knife only becomes a weapon when it is used a one. It is like outlawing inappropriate jokes because someone might be offended... oh... UK is fucked.


Between this thread and the clown world thread, it is pretty obvious that the UK is not in the healthiest place, socially and politically, and if you think you aren’t giving up anything, it is only because you’ve already given up everything.
If your definition of "freedom" is being able to carry a weapon, then that's rather depressing. Freedom would be not having to worry about carrying a weapon, I'd say. Maybe it boils down to how cheap life is viewed over there?


Edit, Samurai swords? Is this a parody. thread? Does anyone have a normal working mind?
 
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Whitesnake

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If your definition of "freedom" is being able to carry a weapon, then that's rather depressing. Freedom would be not having to worry about carrying a weapon, I'd say. Maybe it boils down to how cheap life is viewed over there?


Edit, Samurai swords? Is this a parody. thread? Does anyone have a normal working mind?
Yes, life is so cheap that people are willing to do anything to defend it.

...

Wait a minute
 

KINGMOKU

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Because, as a nation, we have never felt the need to carry weapons. There is literally no need, as you pointed out yourself the risk is so minuscule, there would be no point. We don't have, and never have had, a right to bare arms constitution, so we are giving up nothing. It's not our bag, baby.

PS, the bat'leth story is also full of shit, this table contains more than a Star Trek toy (that has so obviously been sharpened and modified.) It's like people are unwilling to look facts in the face, to sell a scoop, or for some silly internet one -up-man-ship (is that how that's written? I've never typed that before)

Oh your giving up something, I just dont think you realize it.
 

KINGMOKU

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It's a different culture. That's the be all and end all.
Of course. There is a reason the colonies revolted.

If you dont mind the state looming so large in your everyday life, then so be it. From an American perspective, its utterly insane to us. All of it. The posters, the limited speech laws, cameras everywhere, showing examples of simple tools as weapons, e.t.c.

It is truly alien to Americans to see this.
 
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Whitesnake

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It's a different culture. That's the be all and end all.
Yes, your culture thinks that the government putting up 1984 signs, limiting speech, arresting people for having box cutters, and arresting people for not wanting to be filmed by the mandatory face-detecting surveillance systems, are all perfectly fine and normal and could not possibly lead to any problems with the government over-reaching.

It’s absurd, and absolutely worthy of mockery.
 
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MilkyJoe

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Of course. There is a reason the colonies revolted.

If you dont mind the state looming so large in your everyday life, then so be it. From an American perspective, its utterly insane to us. All of it. The posters, the limited speech laws, cameras everywhere, showing examples of simple tools as weapons, e.t.c.

It is truly alien to Americans to see this.
Worship of firearms and not being able to distinguish between a tool and carrying a tool to use for crime, and removing said tool being seen as an infringement of rights, rather than potentially saving a life that night, are completely alien to others, but there you go.
 

KINGMOKU

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Worship of firearms and not being able to distinguish between a tool and carrying a tool to use for crime, and removing said tool being seen as an infringement of rights, rather than potentially saving a life that night, are completely alien to others, but there you go.
Its not a worship at all, it's an understanding, and appreciation that as an American I'm actually free, and able to defend myself from all comers, whilst those in more regressive, and tyrannical countries are not.
 

Whitesnake

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Worship of firearms and not being able to distinguish between a tool and carrying a tool to use for crime, and removing said tool being seen as an infringement of rights, rather than potentially saving a life that night, are completely alien to others, but there you go.
The reason the U.S. """worships""" firearms and our highest law in the land protects the people’s right to own them is because this country was founded by people who used firearms to escape the control of a tyrannical government.

Y’know, the type of government that will find any excuse to punish harmless civilians, or put up reminders that they wish to control the lives of their people by force.
 

MilkyJoe

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The reason the U.S. """worships""" firearms and our highest law in the land protects the people’s right to own them is because this country was founded by people who used firearms to escape the control of a tyrannical government.

Y’know, the type of government that will find any excuse to punish harmless civilians, or put up reminders that they wish to control the lives of their people by force.
Paranoia at it's finest.
 
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Whitesnake

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Paranoia at it's finest.

Not sure how you can call it paranoia when you're watching it happen right in front of you.

You're clearly upset that people are dunking on the nanny state you call home, and will do anything to defend them.

It's too late for you. You've already been cucked.
 
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