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UK Nanny State | Oi guv, that there's an assault spoon, innit?

prag16

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I still can't believe arrests for 'offensive' social media posts are a thing over there. Orewellian nightmare.

Where does the Queen stand on this? Maybe she needs to take the power back from parliament before England becomes a shithole country. And she better do it before they confiscate her tactical assault hairpins.
 
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DeepEnigma

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I still can't believe arrests for 'offensive' social media posts are a thing over there. Orewellian nightmare.

Where does the Queen stand on this? Maybe she needs to take the power back from parliament before England becomes a shithole country. And she better do it before they confiscate her tactical assault hairpins.
They might fine her for covering her hands with gloves.
 

AfricanKing

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Never knew Knife crime was such a joke to you guys. My God-Brother was murdered outside a night club 2 years ago. It's a serious issue that is plaguing many communities and the only deterrent is aggressive methods. But dont be fooled no one has been wrongfully arrested for carrying a knife such as a switch blade without a good reason.
 
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matt404au

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Never knew Knife crime was such a joke to you guys. My God-Brother was murdered outside a night club 2 years ago. It's a serious issue that is plaguing many communities and the only deterrent is aggressive methods. But dont be fooled no one has been wrongfully arrested for carrying a knife such as a switch blade without a good reason.
The joke is not knife crime; it's the pathetic response from your government who would rather curtail freedom than address the real problems stemming from mass immigration, demographic change, and inadequate cultural integration.
 
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AfricanKing

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The joke is not knife crime; it's the pathetic response from your government who would rather curtail freedom than address the real problems stemming from mass immigration, demographic change, and inadequate cultural integration.
Do you think Knife crime is the UK is linked to Mass Immigration and cultural changes? Because only 38% of Knife crime convictions come from people who identify as an ethnic minority. There's a whopping 62% that is white so I doubt it has anything to do with Culture or Migration.

Glasglow in Scotland was the Murder Capital of Europe in the early 00 it's not anymore after the Scottish Government took a stronger approach in how they deal with Knife Crims and Homicide. Glasglow is no longer the Murder Capital


 
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matt404au

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Do you think Knife crime is the UK is linked to Mass Immigration and cultural changes? Because only 38% of Knife crime convictions come from people who identify as an ethnic minority. There's a whopping 62% that is white so I doubt it has anything to do with Culture or Migration.

Glasglow in Scotland was the Murder Capital of Europe in the early 00 it's not anymore after the Scottish Government took a stronger approach in how they deal with Knife Crims and Homicide. Glasglow is no longer the Murder Capital


Wikipedia says that whites were 87% of the total population of the UK at the last census, meaning 13% were non-white. 38% of knife crimes committed by 13% of the population is a bit of an over-representation don't you think?
 

AfricanKing

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Wikipedia says that whites were 87% of the total population of the UK at the last census, meaning 13% were non-white. 38% of knife crimes committed by 13% of the population is a bit of an over-representation don't you think?
It would be much higher but those stats for knife crkme dont include Scotland just England and Wales
 

AfricanKing

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Only 0.7% of the Scottish population was non-white and born outside the UK, so including them would only dilute the statistics and further hurt your argument.
The opposite , it would infact increase the Knife crime done by people who identify as being White.
 

matt404au

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The opposite , it would infact increase the Knife crime done by people who identify as being White.
No, the per capita perpetration rate for whites in Scotland is lower than non-whites for the UK as a whole. There were 33 knife homicides in Scotland last year, which has a total white population of 5.26 m (as of 2011 census, so an underestimate of current population), so a per capita rate of 0.0000063 knife homicides per white person (6.3 per million). In the UK as a whole, there were a total of 285 knife homicides last year. You claim 62% were committed by whites (not sure where this number comes from, but I'll go with it). 62% of 285 is 177. The white population of the UK was 55 million at the 2011 census, which means a per capita rate of 0.0000032 knife homicides per white person (3.2 per million). The non-white population of the UK was 8 million, so the remaining 108 knife homicides correspond to a per capita rate of 0.000014 (14 per million).

So in summary, the knife homicide perpetration rate of non-whites in the UK was 14 per million last year compared to 3.2 per million for whites in the UK and 6.3 per million for whites in Scotland only. The knife homicide perpetration rate for non-whites in the UK is nearly 4.5 times higher than whites. You have an immigration and integration problem.
 
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No, the per capita perpetration rate for whites in Scotland is lower than non-whites for the UK as a whole. There were 33 knife homicides in Scotland last year, which has a total white population of 5.26 m (as of 2011 census, so an underestimate of current population), so a per capita rate of 0.0000063 knife homicides per white person (6.3 per million). In the UK as a whole, there were a total of 285 knife homicides last year. You claim 62% were committed by whites (not sure where this number comes from, but I'll go with it). 62% of 285 is 177. The white population of the UK was 55 million at the 2011 census, which means a per capita rate of 0.0000032 knife homicides per white person (3.2 per million). The non-white population of the UK was 8 million, so the remaining 108 knife homicides correspond to a per capita rate of 0.000014 (14 per million).

So in summary, the knife homicide perpetration rate of non-whites in the UK was 14 per million last year compared to 3.2 per million for whites in the UK and 6.3 per million for whites in Scotland only. The knife homicide perpetration rate for non-whites in the UK is nearly 4.5 times higher than whites. You have an immigration and integration problem.
Now do milkshakes.
 

matt404au

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When they told us that milk was the beverage of white supremacists, we didn’t believe them. We laughed at them; we scorned them; we threw 👌🏻 white power signs 👌🏻 at them; we insulted them and likened them to clowns for believing that bovine lactation could in any way be associated with genocide. Well, who’s laughing now?
 

CyberPanda

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When they told us that milk was the beverage of white supremacists, we didn’t believe them. We laughed at them; we scorned them; we threw 👌🏻 white power signs 👌🏻 at them; we insulted them and likened them to clowns for believing that bovine lactation could in any way be associated with genocide. Well, who’s laughing now?
 
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AfricanKing

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No, the per capita perpetration rate for whites in Scotland is lower than non-whites for the UK as a whole. There were 33 knife homicides in Scotland last year, which has a total white population of 5.26 m (as of 2011 census, so an underestimate of current population), so a per capita rate of 0.0000063 knife homicides per white person (6.3 per million).
You've just done what i exsoectdd you to do and that is fabricate statistics. Scotland does not record race. There is no official break down of that statistic without contacting the government to get them. Which i doubt youve done in the last Hour.

What you have done however is apply the crime ratio for England and Wales onto Scotland which is a bad form of statistics because Scotlands Minority population is only 4℅ and you have no baseline to go by.

You have a misinformation problem and have made up statistics.

You dont even know what percentage of minorities commit crime in Scotland do you ?

I know your googling like a mad man now to try and find it. Race is not a common donomenator when it comes to Knife Crime Social factors are. You dont see rich men in Suits pulling out shanks. Its more common amongs under 25 year olds who live in poverty , lack education , have bad family dynamics etc..

Again i gave you a hint earlier with Glasglow but you need got it. Theh addressed their Crime issue by looking at all the social issues that drove people to pick up a weapon. It was never about race for them it was a societal change that needed to happen.
 
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matt404au

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You've just done what i exsoectdd you to do and that is fabricate statistics. Scotland does not record race. There is no official break down of that statistic without contacting the government to get them. Which i doubt youve done in the last Hour.

What you have done however is apply the crime ratio for England and Wales onto Scotland which is a bad form of statistics because Scotlands Minority population is only 4℅ and you have not baseline to go by.

You have a misinformation problem and have made up statistics
:messenger_tears_of_joy:

Oh mate, you're so invested in trying to find a victory condition rather than the truth that you can't help but score own goals.

I took the 33 knife homicides statistics from the article you linked:

"A sharp instrument was the main method of killing for 34 (58%) of those cases and all but one of them involved a knife. "

I took the white population of Scotland from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Scotland) then for the sake of the argument assumed that all knife homicides were committed by whites to arrive at a per capita rate. Hint: this helps your argument because it ignores the proportion of the knife crimes that were committed by non-whites and therefore overestimates the white perpetration rate. I have not projected the perpetration rates of England and Wales on to Scotland, in fact I have done quite the opposite: I have compared an overestimate of white knife crime perpetration rates in Scotland with rates in the UK to demonstrate that your arguments are flawed based on a misinterpretation of the statistics you are citing.
 

AfricanKing

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:messenger_tears_of_joy:

Oh mate, you're so invested in trying to find a victory condition rather than the truth that you can't help but score own goals.

I took the 33 knife homicides statistics from the article you linked:

"A sharp instrument was the main method of killing for 34 (58%) of those cases and all but one of them involved a knife. "

I took the white population of Scotland from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Scotland) then for the sake of the argument assumed that all knife homicides were committed by whites to arrive at a per capita rate. Hint: this helps your argument because it ignores the proportion of the knife crimes that were committed by non-whites and therefore overestimates the white perpetration rate. I have not projected the perpetration rates of England and Wales on to Scotland, in fact I have done quite the opposite: I have compared an overestimate of white knife crime perpetration rates in Scotland with rates in the UK to demonstrate that your arguments are flawed based on a misinterpretation of the statistics you are citing.
Pal i'll ask again since you missed thr question. Lets deal with facts as much as you want to "Help" .

Do you have crime statistics for Scotland broken down by race?
 

AfricanKing

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Trying to help you out here Matty boy.. Glasgow halves their Homicide rate without even looking at race and they were the Murder Capital Of Europe ...

Address the underlying social issues and you have your answer.
 

matt404au

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Pal i'll ask again since you missed thr question. Lets deal with facts as much as you want to "Help" .

Do you have crime statistics for Scotland broken down by race?
Dude... :messenger_tears_of_joy:

I just explained to you how I provided an upper bound for knife crime perpetrated by whites in Scotland that actually helps your argument. Do you understand that if we were to dig into the actual statistics and find that it's less than 100% white perpetrators, this would hinder your argument? 6.3 per million is an upper bound. It cannot go higher, yet it is still significantly smaller than the 14 per million committed by non-whites in the UK.
 

AfricanKing

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Dude... :messenger_tears_of_joy:

I just explained to you how I provided an upper bound for knife crime perpetrated by whites in Scotland that actually helps your argument. Do you understand that if we were to dig into the actual statistics and find that it's less than 100% white perpetrators, this would hinder your argument? 6.3 per million is an upper bound. It cannot go higher, yet it is still significantly smaller than the 14 per million committed by non-whites in the UK.
Here you are still straw manning your argument. Do you think Scotland addressed Glasgow's issue by looking at race?

You've presented an immigration argument but have not shown statistics for Migrant Crime just race-based, I realised you swerved a bit off here but you kept on going. You're still hiding behind a thinly veiled argument.

What cultural changes are you talking about bring up Knife crime ? How does migration fall into it. You cant have it both ways, Matty. Show your evidence that Mass Migration has to lead to an increase in Crime. Where do black people who were born in the UK fall in your analysis because you know they are not Migrants right . If your Issue is migration .. Well Polish people account for the majority migrants to the UK .. Is that the culture change you are talking about aye ..

You see how flawed your arguments is.
 

Taxexemption

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Knife crime is a joke. You can't ban the rock, the fist, or the boot. The problem is people want to kill each other.
 

OSC

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Never knew Knife crime was such a joke to you guys. My God-Brother was murdered outside a night club 2 years ago. It's a serious issue that is plaguing many communities and the only deterrent is aggressive methods. But dont be fooled no one has been wrongfully arrested for carrying a knife such as a switch blade without a good reason.
criminals don't respect the laws, such laws only restrict law abiding citizens ability to defend themselves
It would be much higher but those stats for knife crkme dont include Scotland just England and Wales
don't uk authorities call migrants asians, etc. to try and hide their true ethnic origins. Wouldn't surprise me if they downplay or hide the full migrant crime statistics too.
 

Whitesnake

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Never knew Knife crime was such a joke to you guys. My God-Brother was murdered outside a night club 2 years ago. It's a serious issue that is plaguing many communities and the only deterrent is aggressive methods. But dont be fooled no one has been wrongfully arrested for carrying a knife such as a switch blade without a good reason.
I would consider self-defense a “good reason”.

Your government would rather let your god-brother be stabbed to death than let him take precautions to defend himself.

And your attitude of “my government and police force couldn’t POSSIBLY arrest someone for dumb reasons” is fucking looney.

Your government would prefer everyone who’s ever made an edgy joke be locked up in prison.

The fact that you would even defend them is worthy of mockery in and of itself.

And, as has been stated all over this thread, deterrance won’t work here. The actual thugs and criminals that you claim this law is meant to deter aren’t going to give two shits about what’s legal and what’s not.
 
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AfricanKing

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I would consider self-defense a “good reason”.

Your government would rather let your god-brother be stabbed to death than let him take precautions to defend himself.

And your attitude of “my government and police force couldn’t POSSIBLY arrest someone for dumb reasons” is fucking looney.

Your government would prefer everyone who’s ever made an edgy joke be locked up in prison.

The fact that you would even defend them is worthy of mockery in and of itself.

And, as has been stated all over this thread, deterrance won’t work here. The actual thugs and criminals that you claim this law is meant to deter aren’t going to give two shits about what’s legal and what’s not.
This is that bullshit mentality of a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun. IRL shit dont play out like that. This aint GTA.

And i'll say the same to you, Glasgow halved its homicide rate when they started treating as a public health problem and attacking the social issues that lead people to carrying them.
 

Whitesnake

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This is that bullshit mentality of a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun. IRL shit dont play out like that. This aint GTA.

And i'll say the same to you, Glasgow halved its homicide rate when they started treating as a public health problem and attacking the social issues that lead people to carrying them.
If they know that you have the same means to harm them as they have to harm you, there’s a chance they’ll reconsider. They might be fine trying to rob with someone unarmed, but if they realize their own life is at risk they may run away.

THAT’S detterence. What isn’t deterrence is “oh it’s illegal so criminals will stop doing it.”

The social issue is that people want to defend themselves from thugs. Thugs don’t care about laws. Patting down random people to see if they have a box cutter or a pair of scissors isn’t actually going to fix anything. If it could, knife crime in the UK would be solved already.
 
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AfricanKing

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You can assume race when literally almost the entire country is one race. @matt404au basically gave you a "worst case" estimate for Scotland, and still showed that white UKers are underepresented in knife crime.
@matt404au analysis was very limited and simply a one shot catch'em all resolution. He failed to answer any follow up questions. If Knife crime is a migrant issue then which migrants are doing it because Polish people make up the Bulk of Migrants. Which Social Demographic change can you point to is casuing it to rise and how do you identify changing culture. Again if its a migrant issue where do black brits who were born in the UK come into it because they aint Migrants.

He refuses to understand that there are social common denominators that cross races and are present in the people who commit Knkfe crime.
 
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matt404au

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@matt404au analysis was very limited and simply a one shot catch'em all resolution. He failed to answer any follow up questions. If Knife crime is a migrant issue then which migrants are doing it because Polish people make up the Bulk of Migrants. Which Social Demographic change can you point to is casuing it to rise and how do you identify changing culture. Again if its a migrant issue where do black brits who were born in the UK come into it because they aint Migrants.

He refuses to understand that there are social common denominators that cross races and are present in the people who commit Knkfe crime.
Tell me what you believe the “social common denominators” are for knife crime then, and don’t say poverty, because that increases right alongside mass immigration so you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
 

Taxexemption

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Regardless people will ultimately discover new ways to kill each other. 3D printers are here and I don't believe they are being used to produce illegal knives for profit, but its around the corner. We will see a day when everyone has a 3D printer in their home that can print a firearm. You need to address the fact that people want to kill each other, not the means by which they do it. And before anyone says it's illegal to print a weapon you are not allowed to own, let me point out that it's also illegal to download game of thrones or other shows/games without buying it, but that activity occurs on a pretty wide scale. By focusing on the means of violence rather than it's cause, we ensure that we make no progress while technological progress erases any gains we might get from making violence less efficient.
 
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AfricanKing

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Tell me what you believe the “social common denominators” are for knife crime then, and don’t say poverty, because that increases right alongside mass immigration so you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Already posted it above. Poverty is a key factor, the majority victims and perps are male between the ages of 16 and 25 and come from disadvantaged back grounds and toxic environments. You mix that with austerity, youth services and policing cuts ... Something is bound to happen.

Feel free to look at the studies this article puts them together for you.

 

matt404au

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Already posted it above. Poverty is a key factor, the majority victims and perps are male between the ages of 16 and 25 and come from disadvantaged back grounds and toxic environments. You mix that with austerity, youth services and policing cuts ... Something is bound to happen.

Feel free to look at the studies this article puts them together for you.

What an absolute waste of time that article was. Attributing the increase in knife crime to children and young people being afraid of becoming victims of knife crime and therefore carrying knives on them, what a joke. That's the kind of circular logic I expect from activist "experts" tapdancing around the real issue that they (and you) are choosing to look in the other direction from.
 

AfricanKing

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What an absolute waste of time that article was. Attributing the increase in knife crime to children and young people being afraid of becoming victims of knife crime and therefore carrying knives on them, what a joke. That's the kind of circular logic I expect from activist "experts" tapdancing around the real issue that they (and you) are choosing to look in the other direction from.
You and i know that is not what the article says it even links you to this study which breaksdown stabbings to the most frequent time they happen . race and culture play no part all social issues.


Honesty is the best policy Matty.
 
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Taxexemption

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@AfricanKing

Can you explain why your approach is to ban knives, and how we know it will stop there? Will it one day be banning people from exercising, from dieting? Will I one day have to report before a government official annually so that they can make sure I'm not too healthy, and too capable of violence? What about too intelligent, I'm sure my brain could think of all sorts of clever ways to fabricate weapons out of common household items. Your approach seems to be to make people less efficient at doing things you don't like, rather than addressing why people are doing these things. Why is your approach correct?
 

AfricanKing

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@AfricanKing

Can you explain why your approach is to ban knives, and how we know it will stop there? Will it one day be banning people from exercising, from dieting? Will I one day have to report before a government official annually so that they can make sure I'm not too healthy, and too capable of violence? What about too intelligent, I'm sure my brain could think of all sorts of clever ways to fabricate weapons out of common household items. Your approach seems to be to make people less efficient at doing things you don't like, rather than addressing why people are doing these things. Why is your approach correct?
I said ban knives ??
 

MisterFalcon

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You and i know that is not what the article says it even links you to this study which breaksdown stabbings to the most frequent time they happen . race and culture play no part all social issues.


Honesty is the best policy Matty.
Race and culture is not mentioned at all in that study, how do you conclude it plays no part.
 

AfricanKing

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Race and culture is not mentioned at all in that study, how do you conclude it plays no part.
How do you conclude the weather plays no part aswell ? The fact that its not even in the study is proof and methods like what were used in Glasgow deal with issues without using Race .. Because it plays no part.
How do people eat steak with banned knives? Or is it only a ban on carrying knives which is stupid if you can still buy and have some at home and at restaurants.
The fuck are you talking about , when did i say ban all knives ?
 

Hissing Sid

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Regardless people will ultimately discover new ways to kill each other. 3D printers are here and I don't believe they are being used to produce illegal knives for profit, but its around the corner. We will see a day when everyone has a 3D printer in their home that can print a firearm. You need to address the fact that people want to kill each other, not the means by which they do it. And before anyone says it's illegal to print a weapon you are not allowed to own, let me point out that it's also illegal to download game of thrones or other shows/games without buying it, but that activity occurs on a pretty wide scale. By focusing on the means of violence rather than it's cause, we ensure that we make no progress while technological progress erases any gains we might get from making violence less efficient.
Yeah but the gun is the easy bit seeing as it’s basically a tube and a hammer. The hard part is the ammunition and I can’t see 3D printers churning out a tray full of 5.56 any time soon.
 

FireFly

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criminals don't respect the laws, such laws only restrict law abiding citizens ability to defend themselves
So, there are at least two classes of people:

1.) Those who plan and commit crimes and are willing to use weapons to do so, no matter what the possible sanctions are.
2.) Those who would only ever use a weapon in self defence, to defend against the threat of a physical assault

But isn't there a third group?

3.) Those that carry a weapon to defend themselves, but will instigate violence against those that they feel threatened by.

Do violent confrontations only occur when hardened criminals are involved?
 
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