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Ukraine/Russia conflict NEWS thread - Updates on the Ukrainian crisis.

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antonz

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May 12, 2010
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Putin so far has been a no show in Crimea at the Sevastopol Victory events. Locals still rumbling they expect him for the fly by though they had been expecting him for the whole day for weeks now
 

Tripon

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Putin so far has been a no show in Crimea at the Sevastopol Victory events. Locals still rumbling they expect him for the fly by though they had been expecting him for the whole day for weeks now
I wonder if pro-Russian people in Crimea finally realize that Putin doesn't give a fuck about them?
 

antonz

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Heavy Fighting being reported iNn Mariupol. Attack on Military Base was thwarted and Police Station under attack.

Being reported Grenades etc being used. 8 Separatists confirmed killed trying to get into Police Station.

@EuromaidanPR 2m
8 terrorists killed during storm of Police HQ in #Mariupol | EMPR News
@EuromaidanPR 11m
Pro-#Russian terrorists are storming Police HQ in #Mariupol. Shootout. Grenades. Killed ppl
@EuromaidanPR 2m
#Mariupol: ground floor of the city council is on fire. http://www.0629.com.ua |EMPR
 

Virzeth

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Heavy Fighting being reported iNn Mariupol. Attack on Military Base was thwarted and Police Station under attack.

Being reported Grenades etc being used. 8 Separatists confirmed killed trying to get into Police Station.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/newsfront4

Not sure what happened, since I was in a different room with wireless headphones, but there was some heavy shooting here, when I got back the dude filming was pointing at bloody footprints on the curb.
 

Madness

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I don't know if it was a good article at all. Just look at what he says at the end:

"But all of this survey data suggests that Ukrainians themselves, even the segments of Ukrainians who are predisposed to be more sympathetic to Russia and skeptical of the Ukrainian government, just do not want a Crimea-style Russian invasion and annexation in their territory. It could happen anyway, but this makes it much, much less likely."

He's basing his argument, perhaps rightfully so, off of two surveys in chart form which show that even Pro-Russian Ukrainians don't want to secede to Russia. Or that Eastern Ukrainians are unlikely to take up arms against the government. But at the very end, he says that it could all be irrelevant, just that it seems less likely so. But as we've seen, Crimea was nowhere close to the levels of secession and violent uprising just a few months ago. Things deteriorate quick. As lawlessness keeps up and since the Ukrainian military and government have a hard time dealing with these Russian troops/Russian backed militias, it only works to Putin's ultimate favor. More buildings are stormed, more weapons are entering the area, more pro-Russian demonstrations are happening.

In the long run this is very bad for Putin and Russia from a global unity, democracy, and Russian great power standpoint. But currently, this is working to their advantage. See how they've achieved most of their goals save for full on ground invasion with little more than a few irrelevant sanctions.
 

antonz

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Mariupol battle has ended after 2 hours.

@jamesmatesitv 8m
2 hr gun-battle in #Mariupol now over. #ukraine forces used heavy weapons mounted on APCs to suppress resistance. Major escalation.
@jamesmatesitv 14m
Central police station in #Mariupol now a smoking ruin. Stormed by #Ukraine national guard and police. Up to 8 dead
Lesson learned now is Army is no longer fighting with white gloves on. Police Station had been captured by Separatists.

Police Station when Battle over
 

antonz

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Separatists shoot and Kill Man and Women and leave 10 year old fighting for her life after they refuse to stop at Separatist checkpoint outside Luhansk. Separatists opened fire on car

@EuromaidanPR 2m
Family from 3 members shot dead by #terrorists near #Lugansk today http://news.liga.net/news/politics/1670918-vozle_luganska_separatisty_rasstrelyali_semyu_iz_trekh_chelovek.htm … | EMPR News
Orthodox priest shot dead at Separtists checkpoint at Kostyantynivka

@EuromaidanPR 7m
A Priest shot dead by terrorists at checkpoint in #Konstantinovka today … | EMPR News
http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2014/05/9/7024826/

Brief footage of Police Station shootout. Army was not fooling round. RPGs used on Station etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5MrAZqW2H8


@EuromaidanPR 4m
#Ukrainian activist shot dead.Than his cash & key from car robbed.Real face of "#Donetsk republic"
 

Madness

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Good, at what point do you say enough is enough and stop these violent terrorists/separatists. The Russians should really be ashamed of themselves. Innocent people are dying, and for what? I say the military should do what needs to be done to remove these militias and just hope/pray that the international community would condemn/prevent a strong Russian military response.
 

antonz

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Police Headquarters in Mariupol is now on fire with multiple Police Officers dead who tried to broker peace with Separatists

@EuromaidanPR 5m
#Mariupol Police HQ is on fire now. 3 policemen that came to negotiation with #terrorists shot dead
Press in Sevastopol reporting a lot of Booing and jeers as Putin made his way through crowd
@rdcberlinAFP: WOW. Putin booed as he moves through the crowd in Sevastopol, according to live TV pictures
@marcburleigh 30m
Russian TV bcast of Putin speech in #Crimea has audio of Putin jeered and booed afterwards by locals on shore. Wonder if heard in Russia?
From Earlier battle:
@ChristopherJM 12m
#Ukraine Int Minister @AvakovArsen: About 20 rebels killed, 4 captured in #Mariupol. 1 killed on Ukr side, 5 wounded
 

aScaris

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Thanks for your oppinion Nivash, I can completely agree with everything you wrote. For me it is just hard to grasp at what information the media is giving us or not. For example the video I posted was the first one I found that really showed violent mobs wearing ukraine flags. Following the main media unfortunately just doesn't give you that insight, which makes it hard to decide how honest the reports are. Just from this page there was this post

@EuromaidanPR 4m
#Ukrainian activist shot dead.Than his cash & key from car robbed.Real face of "#Donetsk republic"

Sure that looks bad, but it would look completely different if the tweet would have said something like "Shocked unarmed citizens trying to find out the identity of an unknown shot #Ukranian acitivist". There are so many ways to manipulate information that is given out.. Well, I guess we can just try to make up our own mind as good as we can by critically looking at the information we get. We just have to keep in mind that

[...]At this point there is little to no unbiased information even coming out of Ukraine at all which makes it nigh impossible to get a good feel for how the situation is developing.[...]
 

antonz

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Thanks for your oppinion Nivash, I can completely agree with everything you wrote. For me it is just hard to grasp at what information the media is giving us or not. For example the video I posted was the first one I found that really showed violent mobs wearing ukraine flags. Following the main media unfortunately just doesn't give you that insight, which makes it hard to decide how honest the reports are. Just from this page there was this post



Sure that looks bad, but it would look completely different if the tweet would have said something like "Shocked unarmed citizens trying to find out the identity of an unknown shot #Ukranian acitivist". There are so many ways to manipulate information that is given out.. Well, I guess we can just try to make up our own mind as good as we can by critically looking at the information we get. We just have to keep in mind that
There is a Youtube video of that corpse in question. The behavior of the people in the video is disgusting and the fact we are dealing with a murdered individual is why I did nit post the video. The people seen in that picture are quite joyful over the death of the individual to the point they attempt to rip his clothing off at one point until shots are fired and they disperse.
 

aScaris

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There is a Youtube video of that corpse in question. The behavior of the people in the video is disgusting and the fact we are dealing with a murdered individual is why I did nit post the video. The people seen in that picture are quite joyful over the death of the individual to the point they attempt to rip his clothing off at one point until shots are fired and they disperse.
I did not mean to criticize your work, in fact it gives me as non-twitter user some nice insight :D It was just a convenient example since you posted it so recently. Seen in context this event is just disgusting :(
 

Yamauchi

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Police Headquarters in Mariupol is now on fire with multiple Police Officers dead who tried to broker peace with Separatists
Really? That doesn't at all accord with the report here: http://vesti.ua/donbass/50928-shef-mvd-mariupolja-rasstreljal-milicionera

Reports coming in from the independent media suggest that the police officers that were killed in Mariupol were attacked by the Ukrainian National Guard for siding with the Pro-Russian protesters. Specifically, the above report states that the police chief shot his own man for refusing to fire on protesters. After this, the police rebelled and were attacked by the national guard.

http://vesti.ua/donbass/50930-v-maripolskij-gorotdel-bojatsja-zahodit-spasateli

The above report suggests that the police of Mariupol were gathered this morning and told to switch allegiance to Kiev. Excluding the police chief, most of the police officers refused, siding instead with 'the people' / the pro-Russians. After this, armor vehicles showed up and began to fire on the building.
 

Ty4on

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A05s6GrztbQ >> Have fun with this one if you can understand it. Odarchenko, the Kiev-appointed governor of Kherson, has some interesting words regarding Hitler as a liberator. Crowd is stunned; woman with baby comes up and rips the microphone away from Odarchenko and throws it to the ground. Crowd cheers.

Russian propaganda, huh? Lol
It doesn't seem likely that he said that. I don't speak Ukrainian or Russian, but commenters translating (and google translating some of them :p) seemed to suggest that he compared the Nazi invasion to the Russian one. Here are the three that translated.
Александр Федотов (Russian) said:
Перевожу: ""Мы вспоминаем то как люди боролись против агрессоров которые пытались захватить землю и эти агрессоры мотивировали свой захват не только желанием захватить чужие территории и поработить людей, они так же выставляли лозунги о БУДТО БЫ освобождении наций и народов которые проживают на землях которые собирался захватить гитлер. Если вы читаете историю сейчас, очень много телепередач про это, мы видим что он прежде всего выставлял требования освобождения людей от коммунистического ига, освобождение людей от тирана сталина освобождение от других вещей..(тут началась истерика у комуняк) Где тут оправдание гитлера?? Вы не понимаете украинский язык?? Он лишь указал под какими лозунгами шел гитлер и сравнил их с путлером
UA Drizzd (Russian) said:
Каждый видит и слышит только то что хочет , плюс людям не понимающим украинского языка , кремлёвские боты переводят не правильно и вводят в заблуждение. Никто не поддерживает Гитлера и фашистов , человек привёл пример из истории по анологии которого многократно вводились войска в разные части мира , якобы для освобождения или защиты прав , Вот и всё. А понаписывали в комментах разной чуши люди либо не понимающие языка , либо диванные вояки или же просто - неадекваты.
С великим праздником всех , не поддавайтесь на провокации.
Мира , спокойствия и процветания нам всем.
Danila Bezmenov (English) said:
as for the translation, the dude said that Hitler came to Ukraine proclaiming liberation of Ukraine from bolsheviks, but people didn't trust him and pushed the aggressor back.
And now Russian troops are by Ukrainian borders use same rhetoric claiming to liberate Ukraine from Nazis.
 

Sviatoslav

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I understand that the Kiev regime can spin events for the rest of the world but they're turning the locals against them. People in Mariupol seem pissed. Really pissed. Using the NazGuard to fire on the police that refused go against their own people. Brilliant.

I do wonder though how they'll spin this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A05s6GrztbQ

Kiev-appointed governor of Kherson, Odarchenko in his Victory Day speech starts praising Hitler, calling him a liberator and lamenting that he was stopped. In front of a bunch of veterans. Brilliant. Naturally, crowd is far from pleased.
 
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I understand that the Kiev regime can spin events for the rest of the world but they're turning the locals against them. People in Mariupol seem pissed. Really pissed. Using the NazGuard to fire on the police that refused go against their own people. Brilliant.

I do wonder though how they'll spin this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A05s6GrztbQ

Kiev-appointed governor of Kherson, Odarchenko in his Victory Day speech starts praising Hitler, calling him a liberator and lamenting that he was stopped. In front of a bunch of veterans. Brilliant. Naturally, crowd is far from pleased.
According to translators, he didn't praise Hitler, he compared Russian invasion to German invasion. He said some people viewed either one as liberators, but with Hitler they pushed him out, and they will do the same with Russia now. He wasn't praising Hitler, he was comparing him to the Russians now.
 

kess

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According to translators, he didn't praise Hitler, he compared Russian invasion to German invasion. He said some people viewed either one as liberators, but with Hitler they pushed him out, and they will do the same with Russia now. He wasn't praising Hitler, he was comparing him to the Russians now.
I wonder if this will be continue to be posted as gospel truth three or four pages from now.

Anyway, NATO is saying there has been no pullback of Russian forces from the Ukrainian border, as usual.
 

Sviatoslav

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According to translators, he didn't praise Hitler, he compared Russian invasion to German invasion. He said some people viewed either one as liberators, but with Hitler they pushed him out, and they will do the same with Russia now. He wasn't praising Hitler, he was comparing him to the Russians now.
Okay so I found a transcript of the speech and while it was really poorly worded, the gist of what you're saying is correct. I can easily see why the crowd got confused though. Jesus, that's a poorly written speech. Using terms like Hitler-liberator and Stalin-tyrant in front of a crowd composed of many people who don't understand Ukrainian particularly well should have been a no go. Should have known far better than to stir up tensions like that in a victory day speech.
 

Oriel

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I wonder if this will be continue to be posted as gospel truth three or four pages from now.

Anyway, NATO is saying there has been no pullback of Russian forces from the Ukrainian border, as usual.
Russia lying?! Imagine that. :rolleyes:

Okay so I found a transcript of the speech and while it was really poorly worded, the gist of what you're saying is correct. I can easily see why the crowd got confused though. Jesus, that's a poorly written speech. Using terms like Hitler-liberator and Stalin-tyrant in front of a crowd composed of many people who don't understand Ukrainian particularly well should have been a no go. Should have known far better than to stir up tensions like that in a victory day speech.
Why? Given the context surrounding this year's V-Day commemorations the Ukrainian governor drawing hysterical parallels with today's situation is entirely reasonable and warranted.
 

Sviatoslav

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Why? Given the context surrounding this year's V-Day commemorations the Ukrainian governor drawing hysterical parallels with today's situation is entirely reasonable and warranted.
I can't actually tell if you're being serious. Saying such things in front of people (and families of people) who first hand knew the atrocities of WW2 and likening it to the current situation is not only distasteful but straight up warmongering. It does nothing to alleviate the situation in the east. It does the opposite. Whatever political message he wanted to send it was the wrong place to do so.
 

Yamauchi

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Here's a video of some of the violence in Mariupol today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=678n97eBQoI

Very graphic. At 1:45 the Ukrainian national guard begin shooting unarmed men at point blank range -- one had his arms in the air and was on his knees. The man in the suit was showing some kind of ID (probably police badge). After shooting a few people, the national guard begins to retreat. Members of the crowd, some of them police, begin shooting and preparing molotov cocktails.

I am not sure if this is how the violence began today or not.

Ty4on: It doesn't seem likely that he said what? I didn't mention specifically what he said in my post. I directed the user to view the video and hear what he said about Hitler as a liberator.
 

Ty4on

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Ty4on: It doesn't seem likely that he said what? I didn't mention specifically what he said in my post. I directed the user to view the video and hear what he said about Hitler as a liberator.
And it looks like a misunderstanding where he was comparing Hitler's invasion to Russia's and didn't call him a liberator.
According to translators, he didn't praise Hitler, he compared Russian invasion to German invasion. He said some people viewed either one as liberators, but with Hitler they pushed him out, and they will do the same with Russia now. He wasn't praising Hitler, he was comparing him to the Russians now.
Okay so I found a transcript of the speech and while it was really poorly worded, the gist of what you're saying is correct. I can easily see why the crowd got confused though. Jesus, that's a poorly written speech. Using terms like Hitler-liberator and Stalin-tyrant in front of a crowd composed of many people who don't understand Ukrainian particularly well should have been a no go. Should have known far better than to stir up tensions like that in a victory day speech.
 

SniperHunter

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Here's a video of some of the violence in Mariupol today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=678n97eBQoI

Very graphic. At 1:45 the Ukrainian national guard begin shooting unarmed men at point blank range -- one had his arms in the air and was on his knees. The man in the suit was showing some kind of ID (probably police badge). After shooting a few people, the national guard begins to retreat. Members of the crowd, some of them police, begin shooting and preparing molotov cocktails.

I am not sure if this is how the violence began today or not.

Ty4on: It doesn't seem likely that he said what? I didn't mention specifically what he said in my post. I directed the user to view the video and hear what he said about Hitler as a liberator.
omg :(
 

Yamauchi

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The Independent posts a very long, in-depth article of the events in Mariupol today:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-crisis-bloody-assault-in-mariupol-dashes-hopes-of-avoiding-civil-war-9347972.html

The author notes Arsen Avakov regularly posts 'wildly inaccurate' accounts of events on his Facebook page. He also writes that 'a unit in black combat uniform carried out unprovoked assaults on protesters outside another police station' and that the government in Kiev has not been consistent in explaining who these individuals were.
 

Sviatoslav

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The Independent posts a very long, in-depth article of the events in Mariupol today:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-crisis-bloody-assault-in-mariupol-dashes-hopes-of-avoiding-civil-war-9347972.html

The author notes Arsen Avakov regularly posts 'wildly inaccurate' accounts of events on his Facebook page. He also writes that 'a unit in black combat uniform carried out unprovoked assaults on protesters outside another police station' and that the government in Kiev has not been consistent in explaining who these individuals were.
This is why people have jokingly started calling Avakov "the Minster of Facebook."
 

Simplet

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I wish they would go on with that fucking election already, probably too late for that now.

They should have placed the election 2 weeks after Yanukovitch fled. It would have been a farce, but still better than this. Most everyone seems happy with that joke of a referendum in Crimea now...
 

empty vessel

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I think a lot of people are simply in denial about the reality of the situation, which is that the political demands of the Maidan protests were not overwhelmingly supported by the country. Westerners in particular were sold (and are still being sold) a particular narrative that was favorable to the interests of Western elites. And people are continuing to die in Ukraine at the hands of the new government. People who see Russia in everything are mad. Ukraine is politically divided, and people need to acknowledge that. If you don't, you can't be taken seriously.
 
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I think a lot of people are simply in denial about the reality of the situation, which is that the political demands of the Maidan protests were not overwhelmingly supported by the country. Westerners in particular were sold (and are still being sold) a particular narrative that was favorable to the interests of Western elites. And people are continuing to die in Ukraine at the hands of the new government. People who see Russia in everything are mad. Ukraine is politically divided, and people need to acknowledge that. If you don't, you can't be taken seriously.
I don't think anyone thinks a majority of people in the east want or like the maidan government. But polls also show they want and like a united Ukraine, and reject Russian annexation or intervention. The solution is more autonomy and power devolution for the oblasts, not separation and annexation.
 

empty vessel

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I don't think anyone thinks a majority of people in the east want or like the maidan government. But polls also show they want and like a united Ukraine, and reject Russian annexation or intervention. The solution is more autonomy and power devolution for the oblasts, not separation and annexation.
I don't disagree. Ironically, that's precisely what Russia has been calling for since the beginning (Crimea notwithstanding), and what the West has been resisting.
 
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I don't disagree. Ironically, that's precisely what Russia has been calling for since the beginning (Crimea notwithstanding), and what the West has been resisting.
Russia doesn't want a devolution of powers, however, they want federalization, which is an extreme step. And no matter what they want, shipping in spetsnaz to destabilize cities and regions is inexcusable.
 

empty vessel

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Russia doesn't want a devolution of powers, however, they want federalization, which is an extreme step. And no matter what they want, shipping in spetsnaz to destabilize cities and regions is inexcusable.
I'm not sure I see a meaningful difference between the two. And I should add that I have no idea what you're talking about regarding "shipping in spetsnaz." There's no evidence of that.
 

antonz

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Do Apologize for mixed reporting on mariupol earlier today. Between mixed up timelines and general mixed messaging it will probably be a day or two until what really happened is mostly known. Some foreign press has arrived in the city to try and get a more detailed timeline of events.

I can only see violence getting worse sadly in the East as we move within a day of referendum as much of a farce as it will be.


France24 and AFP are reporting Red Cross workers were abducted again in Donestk region

@MarquardtA · 15s
AFP: Red Cross staff detained by pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine for ‘spying’
@dougf24 · 14m
Eve of referendum: Red Cross workers reported taken captive in #Donetsk, day after deadly clashes in #Mariuopol.
 

Virzeth

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(Reuters) - Pro-Russian militants held several Red Cross workers hostage for seven hours in the rebel eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk, severely beating one before freeing them in Saturday's early hours, a local Red Cross official said.

A spokesman for the self-styled "Donetsk People's Republic", which is holding a referendum on Sunday on breaking with Kiev, said the workers had been detained on Friday evening by rebel activists on suspicion of espionage.

...

"They were released at two o'clock. One had been heavily beaten," Red Cross official Irina Tsaryuk told Reuters. He was now in hospital. Red Cross headquarters in Geneva said simply that there had been "some kind of incident last night".

Novosti Donbassa said the hostage takers had also seized large stores of medicine from the Donetsk office.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/10/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSBREA400LI20140510
 

antonz

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Referendum preperations
@StateOfUkraine 3m
#Donetsk separatists plan seizure of ~80 schools in Donetsk regions for "people's referendum". They say they'll ensure 100% voter turnout.
@MarquardtA 13m
RT @obk
3.198.000 voters in the People's Repubic of Donetsk, they printed an equal amount of ballots
cjchivers 46m
Workers building the voting booths for the rebel secession referendum tmrw in Slovyansk, Ukraine. pic.twitter.com/US49yM4zSt
@cjchivers 2h
Self-appointed mayor of Slovyansk @ presser re secession referendum. Vote will be tmrw. Says he expects 100% turnout
 

Virzeth

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Romania has asked Moscow for an explanation after Russia's deputy prime minister, Dmitry Rogozin, reacting to being barred from its airspace, tweeted he would return in a TU-160 strategic bomber.

Rogozin, one of the senior Russian officials sanctioned by the European Union and United States after Moscow moved to annex Crimea, was turned away when his plane tried to fly to Moscow from Moldova's breakaway Transdniestria region.

According to his tweets in English, Rogozin, who oversees Russia's powerful arms industry, was also blocked by Ukrainian interceptor jets as he tried to fly home from the Russian-speaking region of Moldova bordering Ukraine.

"Upon US request, Romania has closed its airspace for my plane," he tweeted. "Ukraine doesn't allow me to pass through again. Next time I'll fly on board TU-160." The supersonic Soviet-era TU-160 is Russia's largest strategic bomber.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/10/russian-deputy-pm-bomber-tweet-romania-dmitry-rogozin

Here is the tweet (click for the original):



Another pearl from the man himself (again, click for the original):



Not really news, but I thought it was worth sharing.
 

brian577

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A high up Deputy Prime minister of a nuclear Russia threating bombing Romania? I would call that news.
Hardly news. Just a load mouth politician on the Internet. People stay stupid shit online all the time. Do you really think he would say that on a public forum if he was seriously considering it?
 
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