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Ultra Street Fighter 4 PS4 patch is live

Dr. Kaos

Banned
Jun 22, 2013
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This is ridiculous. 99.9999% of us are not "top players". Maybe we should close the thread because no one here is qualified to even be discussing this matter...and, yet WE'RE the ones playing the game.

BTW, top players can be wrong/biased/stupid/uninformed, too. Players who haven't played a single tourney can be right/objective/intelligent/informed.


Putting words in my mouth. feelings from average players are anecdotal and unreliable. impressions from pro players carry more weight because they are a lot more sensitive to input lag (by definition) and measurements from slow-mo cams are even better.

Here it is again:

"Don't take anybody's opinion on latency except people with slow-mo cameras and top SF players."

If only top players can perceive and judge these flaws, then why should any of us regular people even give a shit in the first place?

Everybody is affected. They're playing a slightly worse game. Some may be ok with that. But no one would disagree that a less laggy input would be better.
 

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
Sep 10, 2009
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This is nonsense. You should always refer to the experts in matters of fact.

That's true for most things, but in this case, if most of us will never play at the level of experts, then some of these issues will never truly affect us. I'm not defending these flaws, I want them fixed. I'm just saying that if typical people can't tell something is wrong, there's a sense in which it ultimately doesn't matter, subjectively, for those people.

Basically, in this case, there's a gap between the matters of fact (e.g., the measurable, objective input lag) and the subjective experience per individual. For experts, the subjective impact of the objective facts is large. For average players, the impact of the objective facts is smaller, or non-existent.
 

Korezo

Member
Jan 9, 2013
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Yeah, the sound is still kinda all over the place.
I love the Mad Gear Hideout stage, but fighting there is starting to annoy me because the music overwhelms the sfx compared to other stages.

I lowered all sound settings by 2 bars, the default looked higher than middle. But yeah, some stages were so loud for no reason that I lowered settings.
 

cerulily

Member
Nov 26, 2013
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That's true for most things, but in this case, if most of us will never play at the level of experts, then some of these issues will never truly affect us. I'm not defending these flaws, I want them fixed. I'm just saying that if typical people can't tell something is wrong, there's a sense in which it ultimately doesn't matter, subjectively, for those people.

Basically, in this case, there's a gap between the matters of fact (e.g., the measurable, objective input lag) and the subjective experience per individual. For experts, the subjective impact of the objective facts is large. For average players, the impact of the objective facts is smaller, or non-existent.

But if we're going to talk about what does/doesn't NEED to be fixed, we HAVE to rely on the testimony of the experts. Their suggestions ultimately affect everyone's experience positively.

If you don't know the difference, you may have no stake in the matter, but the people who DO (and whose careers depend on functioning products) absolutely NEED it working at their standards.

Saying "it doesn't matter to some people." is a nice point, but ultimately irrelevant since there are legitimate stakes for others.
 
Aug 14, 2014
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PC version has the problem that people that play without any vsync have an unfair advantage of about 1 to 3 frames in input lag over those that use vsync.

With console versions everyone is on the same level in this regard.
 

Armaly

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Dec 1, 2013
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PC version has the problem that people that play without any vsync have an unfair advantage of about 1 to 3 frames in input lag over those that use vsync.

With console versions everyone is on the same level in this regard.

Why would you willingly play with vsync on?
 

cwistofu

Member
Oct 22, 2013
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That's true for most things, but in this case, if most of us will never play at the level of experts, then some of these issues will never truly affect us. I'm not defending these flaws, I want them fixed. I'm just saying that if typical people can't tell something is wrong, there's a sense in which it ultimately doesn't matter, subjectively, for those people.

Basically, in this case, there's a gap between the matters of fact (e.g., the measurable, objective input lag) and the subjective experience per individual. For experts, the subjective impact of the objective facts is large. For average players, the impact of the objective facts is smaller, or non-existent.
Holy shit. This post screams Gaf.
 

RedAssedApe

Banned
Aug 15, 2007
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1,105
hope everyone is tweeting or somehow making capcom, sony, other ocean, ono, etc. aware of the continued bugs.
 

cwistofu

Member
Oct 22, 2013
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To avoid screen tearing (unless you have a gsync monitor).
Sure, but if vsync is really that important to you, you're putting the disadvantage of input lag on yourself. It's not really "unfair" if you can easily remedy the situation but choose not to.
 

Akiyama_AE

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Feb 5, 2015
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Is it just me or the grapples kinda feel different not sure why can't put a finger on it but I remember it being a bit different on PS3/360
 

Edzi

Member
Nov 30, 2013
7,269
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hope everyone is tweeting or somehow making capcom, sony, other ocean, ono, etc. aware of the continued bugs.

Yeah, I really hope the noise doesn't die down because of the patch. Sony/Capcom still haven't really been talking about the lag issues, so people need to keep hounding them for some answers/proper updates.
 

vg260

Member
Jun 9, 2004
13,133
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hope everyone is tweeting or somehow making capcom, sony, other ocean, ono, etc. aware of the continued bugs.

It would be nice if they at least let people know they are still actively working on it and plan to see it through to their word. My fear is they will say this is good enough and backtrack on their input lag promises and ignore other fixes as being too nitpicky.

Yeah, I really hope the noise doesn't die down because of the patch. Sony/Capcom still haven't really been talking about the lag issues, so people need to keep hounding them for some answers/proper updates.

Yes, they still need pressure.
 

Naked Lunch

Member
Oct 17, 2011
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Hate to say it but the trust has probably forever been lost for this port. SF4 is a massive game with so many intricate gameplay details - people will llikely be finding stuff for weeks if not months. For tourneys with so much at stake - you cant have those doubts creeping in the back of peoples' minds.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Jul 29, 2005
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Sure, but if vsync is really that important to you, you're putting the disadvantage of input lag on yourself. It's not really "unfair" if you can easily remedy the situation but choose not to.

You're at the same amount of lag as the arcade version with v sync on. Not much of a disadvantage.
 

cwistofu

Member
Oct 22, 2013
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You're at the same amount of lag as the arcade version with v sync on. Not much of a disadvantage.
We're not talking about the arcade version. We're talking PC player vs PC player on the PC version, with one person playing with vsync and the second playing without vsync.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Jul 29, 2005
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We're not talking about the arcade version. We're talking PC player vs PC player on the PC version, with one person playing with vsync and the second playing without vsync.

In that case, 1-2 miliseconds isn't going to be an advantage
 

skLaFarebear

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May 18, 2014
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Other than the obvious input delay I want them to fix the network menus so bad. Everyone's still a flashing bar and I can't tell who's netcode is green bar or not
 

Japanmanx3

Member
Aug 28, 2013
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Is it just me or the grapples kinda feel different not sure why can't put a finger on it but I remember it being a bit different on PS3/360
Felt fine to me.

I noticed the tiles menu is super laggy still. Not sure if that's from similar games as well put what. Don't remember it being that shows on SSF4 on ps3...
 

robotzombie

Member
Jan 19, 2010
7,234
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One thing I'd like to know, when people are talking about the input lag, is it consistent across controllers? Or is there more lag using a PS3 arcade stick than using a DS4 controller directly?
 

Journey

Banned
Aug 18, 2014
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This is what it looked like before


So at this point its confirmed, PS4 screws up AF by default and devs have to manually go in and fix? :p
 

petran79

Banned
Sep 17, 2012
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Doesn't the opponent without vsync still have a 1f-advantage in this case?

online delay in SF4 makes that 1f delay negligible
it can lead to more serious problems if both have vsync on

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/154383/ssfiv-ae-pc-version-vsync-on-causes-input-lag/p2

I had the same problem. I play with a friend from Canada and when we had the in-game VSync on, halfway through our matches we would de-sync. What I mean by de-sync is that we'd be playing two completely separate matches. Our inputs would either have 3-5 seconds of delay or they'd stop being read altogether. All of a sudden, I'd be hitting him with everything and landing big damage. I'd laugh and say he got wrekt, then he'd laugh and say I just got wrekt (over Skype). A couple seconds after the round ends, we both get the "Lost Connection to Opponent" popup and have to restart the set.

Turning off the in-game VSync and specifying my nVidia card to turn VSync on for SSF4 solved the problem.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Jul 29, 2005
22,162
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Welcome to the FGC.

Riiiight. That's how human perception works. Bear in mind this is the same thread where people have said stuff like, "PS3 lags, the arcade has the least." (When both have the same input lag in actuality)
 
Aug 14, 2014
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online delay in SF4 makes that 1f delay negligible
Yeah probably. Still that 1f might be a small advantage for air-to-air attacks.

petran said:
it can lead to more serious problems if both have vsync on

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/154383/ssfiv-ae-pc-version-vsync-on-causes-input-lag/p2

I had the same problem. I play with a friend from Canada and when we had the in-game VSync on, halfway through our matches we would de-sync. What I mean by de-sync is that we'd be playing two completely separate matches. Our inputs would either have 3-5 seconds of delay or they'd stop being read altogether. All of a sudden, I'd be hitting him with everything and landing big damage. I'd laugh and say he got wrekt, then he'd laugh and say I just got wrekt (over Skype). A couple seconds after the round ends, we both get the "Lost Connection to Opponent" popup and have to restart the set.

Turning off the in-game VSync and specifying my nVidia card to turn VSync on for SSF4 solved the problem.
Haha, the pc version's included vsync is terrible.
 

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
Sep 10, 2009
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But if we're going to talk about what does/doesn't NEED to be fixed, we HAVE to rely on the testimony of the experts. Their suggestions ultimately affect everyone's experience positively.

If you don't know the difference, you may have no stake in the matter, but the people who DO (and whose careers depend on functioning products) absolutely NEED it working at their standards.

Saying "it doesn't matter to some people." is a nice point, but ultimately irrelevant since there are legitimate stakes for others.

I should have been clearer about this particular point. As i said, I do want it fixed. It should be fixed. I'm not arguing that because non-experts won't notice that it shouldn't be fixed to expert standards. I'm saying all the non-experts making a purchase decision should keep in mind that they probably won't be adversely affected by the things that require expertise to perceive. This might not apply to non-experts who anticipate becoming experts, but it covers most players.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Dec 19, 2006
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I'm saying all the non-experts making a purchase decision should keep in mind that they probably won't be adversely affected by the things that require expertise to perceive.

I disagree.

Interactivity and responsiveness are two fundamental aspects of video games. In anything but turn-based games, I think it's important to value latency and the ways that it can adversely affect those aspects.

Whether I'm playing competitively or not, fewer things irritate me more than the feeling that I'm not as in-control as I should or could be.
 

YianGaruga

Banned
Jun 1, 2009
25,236
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Germany
Interactivity and responsiveness are two fundamental aspects of video games. In anything but turn-based games, I think it's important to value latency and the ways that it can adversely affect those aspects.

Even in turn based games, selecting things from unresponsive or laggy menus is the worst.
 

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
Sep 10, 2009
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I disagree.

Interactivity and responsiveness are two fundamental aspects of video games. In anything but turn-based games, I think it's important to value latency and the ways that it can adversely affect those aspects.

Whether I'm playing competitively or not, fewer things irritate me more than the feeling that I'm not as in-control as I should or could be.

Two things. First, people are very adaptable, so various degrees of input lag can still feel good. Some people have even enjoyed the feel of games at 30fps. Second, we're talking about a couple of milliseconds difference between two versions of a game. Unless someone is playing one for hours and hours then moving to the other one that instant, they aren't going to be like "this feels like shit!" Those kinds of perceptual differences are apparent in relative comparisons, but when experienced in absolute terms (that is, without an immediate point of comparison) they'll be nearly impossible for a layperson to detect.

Whether or not the mere knowledge that something isn't as perfect as it could be bothers you enough to be a problem is going to vary from person to person, but isn't going to prevent every person from enjoying a game.

I value snappy, responsive controls, but I'm realistic in my expectations and I understand that the feel of inputs will vary widely from game to game. I don't see the point in being rigid about it, even if obviously less latency is always better.
 

Avatar1

Member
Jul 10, 2008
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www.iplaywinner.com
I disagree.

Interactivity and responsiveness are two fundamental aspects of video games. In anything but turn-based games, I think it's important to value latency and the ways that it can adversely affect those aspects.

Whether I'm playing competitively or not, fewer things irritate me more than the feeling that I'm not as in-control as I should or could be.

I wonder if you fighting game experts realize that casual players who don't have 1000 hours in this game won't know that 1 to 2 frame difference in "feeling"...

Edit. I guess this isnt a direct reply to you but to people who constantly harp that the 1 to 2 frames of input lag make this game a bad purchase for anyone.
 

inanutshell

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Jan 27, 2009
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I wonder if you fighting game experts realize that casual players who don't have 1000 hours in this game won't know that 1 to 2 frame difference in "feeling"...

Yeah. I remember back when Arcade Infinity was around they would play the arcade version of vanilla Street Fighter 4 on a cabinet using a big hdtv for the screen. That setup probably had 3-5 frames more lag than the 360 version of the game but none of the top players there seemed to complain even though I couldn't stand it.
 

Korezo

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Jan 9, 2013
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I guess I'll ask again
Is it better than the PS3 version after the patch?
( but not better than the Xbox360 right?)

I don't think nobody knows. Might have less delay than the ps3 but still has other problems, like sound, and other bugs people haven't found out yet.
 

UnluckyKate

Member
Jan 15, 2008
18,253
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So at this point its confirmed, PS4 screws up AF by default and devs have to manually go in and fix? :p

apparently, dev just port Direct X setting from PC code and roll with it. Surprise, you actually have to manually set it On for the PS4. It's really that easy and stupid apparently
 

Gbraga

Member
Aug 6, 2009
23,691
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To avoid screen tearing (unless you have a gsync monitor).

So you have the unfair advantage of not having tearing?

It's a choice. One I wish wasn't made for me on consoles ever since I started playing with vsync off on PC.

I'll just play on console. No screen tearing and no disadvantage.

It's still a disadvantage, it just applies to both parties.

A lot of stuff I couldn't do online before I turned off vsync I can now because the input lag is better. I can whiff punish more consistently, for example, which is something that made online and offline play completely different.
 

Avatar1

Member
Jul 10, 2008
884
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www.iplaywinner.com
I guess I'll ask again
Is it better than the PS3 version after the patch?
( but not better than the Xbox360 right?)

It seems great to me! It's a blast and I'm getting quality online matches one after the other so if you aren't a pro that is sensitive to 1.564435677 of input lag making you drop your 52 hit combos I say jump in.

Yes I'm a casual player. I'm aspiring to be mid-tier soon. :)

Edit: to more specifically about comparing to ps3, I played mostly 360 version and started playing the PS3 version recently prior to this release. Post patch this is better but to me it's worth the money for the better online. It's so damn easy to find a good match in ranked now compared to ps3.
 

thelastword

Banned
Apr 7, 2006
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You're talking like you should expect all those things to happen regularly. Apart from variable input delay none of what you are saying is indicative at all of the PC version experience. In 600+ hrs of playing on PC I've seen less than a handful of sub-A class players. And it's there anyways so that you can filter those people out if you don't want to play with them. Lag switchers, cheaters, and macro users, really? lol Everything you're saying is just comical to anyone who plays with any regularity.
I have 444 hrs in the borked steam version alone (only fixed recently) and I can tell you I've come across quite a few D,C,B players. I've even come across players which had an F rank or where their rank don't show/or red rank. As to whether I played them or if I can avoid them is besides the point, but for the record I have played lower ranks than A several times.

My post was not to beat on the PC version, just to show that as a version it's not standardized for several reasons, whether the points I mentioned happens often is besides the point, the problem is it can happen. You can never know when issues with drivers or a computer crashing or any other problem will arise with a computer, but if a platform exists that limits as many potential problems the computer may have, it's better to go with that for simplicity and ease of use.

Supposing one person sets up a computer a certain way and one does it differently, even it is a mistake, consoles avoid that problem entirely. Vysnc on or off, problems with drivers, sticks, pads, compatibility will be a huge issue and none of that is standardized. Setting a fighting tournament with PC is too much of a headache and there will be much longer downtime with it every single time.

Swarna said:
Valle runs online PC tournaments sometimes and the matches/set-up go by faster and more efficiently than when he uses the 360 version. The PC port has actually always been top-notch outside of the transition to Steamworks and the incompatible network API. Valve has since patched the Steamworks P2P to work better with SF4. If you hop online today it is the top-tier experience along with the 360 version. If you haven't played recently, well now you know, otherwise don't be disingenuous about it.
Lol, come on man, nobody even watches those valle tournaments. Btw, GFWL had some issue with the overlay causing slowdown in the game, but the netcode was pretty good most times, it had it's issues like every other version though, since they're all P2P anyway. Steamworks version however; was just a mess and unplayable. After they fixed it (well for the most part), I got my character to A rank and went back to 360.

FYI, I did go back to PC recently, about two weeks ago just to get some rounds in, I had so many laggy matches in that session (reminded me of how it played before the fix) I just quit it and went back to 360.

Btw, even for a casual player, the stats are all borked. There are persons who top the leaderboards with 9999999999 points in every category, some with quite a few players too. Some guys are able to upload their replays with a date set in the future (example 2016), which means the replay stays at the top....till that date comes. I've seen it all on PC. Also... there are quite a few lag switchers and macro users on PC, if you don't notice then just say you don't. There's a particular Honda player who is famous for that, also a certain blanka player on steam and so many more. Of course, you can avoid them, but nothing is standard there anyway, a guy will just change his steam-name and trick you into playing his laggy macro-using self again.