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UN confirm that Assad is responsible for 20+ chemical attack (incl. Khan Sheikhoun)
- Thread starter Golden_Pigeon
- Start date
What? If you mean the people that keeps trying to say "Assad is the lesser evil, lets help him gain back control of the country because the rest are terrorist" at bay, then I agree.
I feel bad for the Syrian people that U.S lacked and lacks the spine to do anything regarding that.
Every time an accusation against Assad comes out, the wankstain says "Those pictures are doctored. Those kids could have been dead already?" and similar bullshit.
GillianSeed79
Member
They'll just wait until he's old and sickly to try him for war crimes after he's murdered and gassed the opposition and reasserted control over Syria. Then he'll die in custody the middle of the six-year long war crimes tribunal before he can be convicted. Something something never forget/we'll never let genocide happen again something. I look forward to the Oscar winning movie about how fucked the Syrian genocide is and how sad it is no one did anything to stop it sooner.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
CrimsonSquall
Member
Doctoglethorpe
Member
UN:
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Russia in the Security Council: "Doesn't look like anything to me".
But as Stump said, at least Assad'll go down in history as a monster and war criminal.
But as Stump said, at least Assad'll go down in history as a monster and war criminal.
BrassDragon
Member
It may be hard for US GAF to comprehend but not every nation has a huge intelligence apparatus able to collect on every country in the world to verify what's going on.
If their government needs a perspective on what is actually happening outside their borders and they don't want to solely rely on the media (particularly foreign media and deliberate propaganda), reports like the OP are what they use to determine stance and policy.
The audience for this is not Assad.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
It's significant for two reason:
1* Assad could be trial for war crime by an international court in the future. Even if he seem very powerful today, even his allies would prefer a future Syria without him as the constitution draft the Russians made shows.
2* The denial effort on social medias by state-media from Syria, Iran, Russia and Venezuela had an unprecedented effort to discredit all charges against Assad. The UN investigation team have way more weight than anything the State Department can say. Of course, anybody a little informed know what is happening since the tons of report we have, through direct testimony or journalism. Sadly, the deniers only listen to "axis of resistance's" state medias.
1* Assad could be trial for war crime by an international court in the future. Even if he seem very powerful today, even his allies would prefer a future Syria without him as the constitution draft the Russians made shows.
2* The denial effort on social medias by state-media from Syria, Iran, Russia and Venezuela had an unprecedented effort to discredit all charges against Assad. The UN investigation team have way more weight than anything the State Department can say. Of course, anybody a little informed know what is happening since the tons of report we have, through direct testimony or journalism. Sadly, the deniers only listen to "axis of resistance's" state medias.
There are quite a few people, including some of this board, who have long denied Assad has committed these war crimes as they try to defend him and his regime. It's important to have as many official bodies as possible declare it as fact to defang the Assad supporters.
It also makes it harder for politicians to handwave all that away and insist that Assad is part of Syria's future. Until its documented officially, and part of the record, we can always chip away at everything as allegations.
The UN is relatively powerless by design. The USA, Russia and now China would never allow it to exist if it could reasonably oppose them.
It's primarily useful as a meeting place to start talking (instead of shooting) and uniting against shitty states that failed to make friends with one of the major powers.
It's the best we can do.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Remember obama's red line? I don't. 
Conciliator
Banned
yeah I'm inclined to not roll my eyes at this. It's easy to say things are "obvious" but it's worthwhile cataloging these things with obsessive empiricism. We want to give recognition and voice to individual attacks and, if possible, individual persons destroyed and harmed. The detailed truth should be recorded on this stuff whenever possible. There is a place for slow, formal bureaucracy.
What I don't understand is why the UN and various countries that have sanctions against countries act as if it's something that's really going to bother them. How many countries are there that the UN has held in contempt for human rights abuses as well as getting countries to have sanctions against them only for whatever country they are targeting to laugh in their faces and not give a shit?
Hell, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Saudi Arabia of all places on the human rights commission?
Hell, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Saudi Arabia of all places on the human rights commission?
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
Yes.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
there is no lesser evil in syria anymore imo.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
Because the human rights commission got several members from all regions, so it's no surprise that among the 4 asians nations who got in, you have Saudi Arabia (alongside with China). More likely, the more influence you got, the more chance you have to be elected.
To kicked out somebody out of the commission, it need the approval of 2/3 of the General Assembly.
UN sanctions DO have weight, since they give international legitimacy for intervention.
It end Gaddafi rule and annihilate the dream of Milosevic in ex-Yugoslavia.
On the other end, if a country act without UN approval, it get seriously slammed in public opinion. (like 2003 intervention in Iraq)
So yeah, UN is offensively insufficient right now but it does play a major role nevertheless.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
We need no-fly zone and UN controlled zone to protect the civilians, like in Bosnia.
What exactly would you have the US do especially with Russa/Syria's relationship?
Hell if there was ever an argument for EU/UN forces to engage Syria would be it.
There isn't any good move to make.
Poor assad just cleared some isil region they held for a year. The news is making rounds as a crippling blow to a stronghold.
So is assad just killing everyone, or is he trying to rid the nation of isis?
I wish we had Syrian people to chime in on gaf. From both sides of the Isle. If this is true, sanctions likely need to turn up. But if they are destroying isis, what do you do to prevent more of a shitstorm with the population already?
Because if assad is an evil being, gassing his own people, which has been an argument made before, why are they clearing out isis? Are they hoping the civilians forget, or understand that they were collateral damage? That's what I'd like to know.
I don't want to see this used as an excuse to try to attack Syria again. It seems that they and Russia can iron things out. Definitely need to be punished, but not a call to arms, mainly due to our double standard practices. If we have red lines, we need to not also have allies abusing said red lines. We can't really afford to be the lead on this one. But I'd gladly like to see the nation's participate in some sort of agreed punishment on Syria.
-as an american.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
They were perfectly fine leaving the iraqi border to let ISIS enter Syria in the first place. They were perfectly fine freeing thousands of AQ sympathizers in 2012.
In the same way, they let Palmyre get captured by ISIS to take it back the same day that they destroyed Aleppo last resistance.
It's pretty obvious that Assad is using ISIS since the beginning. Now they are going full-throttle against them, because they NEED that part in the show. They know that the only way the West is going to tolerate them is to show that they are preventing something worse (for the west) to happen.
People have to realize that their is two main creator of terrorism: military occupation and brutal dictatorship.
edit: if you didn't read it yet, here a piece from the daily beast about how Assad have created ISIS.
I mean, it's not a novelty, the Algerian state did the same thing with the GIA in the 1990.
King Endymion
Member
I have many many friends who escaped the Syrian war and came to Sweden. I love them all dearly and I'm fascinated by their stories.
I'm also fascinated by how all my muslim friends absolutely hate Assad and all my Christian friends absolutely love him and blames the problem on Muslims.
One Christian friend in particular refuses to believe that Assad is responsible for any chemical attacks and that the gas couldn't kill anyone. He also thinks Assad, Putin and Kim Jong-un are amazing presidents.
I don't even know what to think of him anymore.
I'm also fascinated by how all my muslim friends absolutely hate Assad and all my Christian friends absolutely love him and blames the problem on Muslims.
One Christian friend in particular refuses to believe that Assad is responsible for any chemical attacks and that the gas couldn't kill anyone. He also thinks Assad, Putin and Kim Jong-un are amazing presidents.
I don't even know what to think of him anymore.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
so ISIS is no worse?
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
The alienation of religious minorities is one of the trademark of the Assad regime, since he is himself from a religious minority, he need to build fear against the majority. It's why sunni soldiers in the SAA are stucked in the barracks and have no right to go out, or even contact their families.
The christian hierarchy have a dirty, dirty role in the civil war, they handed down many young christians to the regime who participated in the 2011 demonstration. Religious authorities are totally integrated and submitted in the State structure, one word of critics against Baathism or the leader is enough to get you erased. Like Saddam Hussein in Irak, Assad have a big responsibility in the sectarian divide in Syria.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
Why the need to make a ranking? What is worst ISIS or Hitler ? Pol-pot or Pinochet ? They are equally evil, they treat humans lives as commodities to maintain themselves in power/reach their goals. They are basically enemies of mankind.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
there is a line where, once past, that doesn't matter. Gassing civilian is definitely beyond that line.
TheRealTalker
Banned
if you hate Assad you are pro ISIS okay!
PRO ISIS!
Like if you can't hate both for a lunatic cult and a psycho genocidal dictator but Assad has parties guys so he cool. /s
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Did you not read the quote I quoted? The poster stated there is no lesser evil, Assad's regime is battling ISIS, so according to his post ISIS is no worse than Assad's regime. That's what I'm asking
Fair point
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
And his wife is so gorgeous, a man can't be bad with a wife like this !
© Sarkozy
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
It's why i replied to you that their is no need to make a ranking. Once you cross a certain line, you can't be "lesser evil" than the other. So no, ISIS is not worse than Assad. They are the same, kiff-kiff.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
You may believe they are equally evil but both the Obama and Trump administration, along with their allies, seem to disagree, hence Assad still being in power
TheRealTalker
Banned
No they seem to disagree since Russia is involved, it is a proxy war and the US doesn't want to financially go deep into another conflict were they have no game plan.
Especially after Obama failed to act early on and made the crisis worse.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Of course it's a proxy war, no one is denying that. But the US has made it clear which side they prefer, strategically speaking nothing has changed with how the US is dealing with the Syrian conflict from the previous administration
TheRealTalker
Banned
Again you are making it seems as if it is only AQ and ISIS on one side and Assad on the other
With every month we wasted doing nothing more people went into extremism, more Iranian and Russian finance and support (via Militia) get entrenched into Syria for a long term game and more Syrians that are being slaughtered by both sides either die or run away from the country.
Assad even let out criminals from prisons in order to fester the environment so that he may seem like an actual option.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFpanWNgfQY
The reality is that he barely owns anything a paper tiger President that is also insane as he is an egotist.
Remember that he was the one that started killing people first, he shot at protesters and he is responsible for the most civilian deaths.
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