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[GalacticMouse]

So after seeing the new Uncharted 4 clips this weekend from PSX, I fired the Nathan Drake Collection up and finished my playthrough of Drake's Fortune and started one of Among Thieves...which is when I started to notice a big connection between the plot of U2 and the clips from U4.

In Among Thieves, Drake and Flynn plan to break into the museum in Turkey to steal the lamp of Kubla Khan. During the planning of the mission, Drake and Flynn talk about a prior heist:

YT Scene Link

::Flynn shows Drake the museum's pamphlet, implicating it as the target::
Drake: Oh no. No, you're out of your mind.
Flynn: Yeah-just...hear me out for a sec...
Drake: Flynn, we both know two people who were killed trying to lift something out of this place...
Flynn: ...and one who made it out.
Drake: Yeah, barely.
Flynn: I can't do this without you, Drake. You're the only one who's cracked it...

Now, during the execution of the heist, the two spend a lot of time discussing their history with that museum and a prior break-in. It's revealed that Drake has done this before and is heavily implied he was jailed for it...

Scene YT Link

Drake: Flynn, they're just museum guards...and we have their patrols all mapped out. Relax.
Flynn: Relax? Relax? Have you ever been in a Turkish prison, mate? If we get caught, they will lock us up and throw away the sodding key...you do realize that, don't you?
Drake: Better than you do.

So all that having been said, Uncharted 2 seems to establish that Drake has been in this museum for a heist before with two accomplices. As a result of that heist, the two accomplices were killed and Drake was (likely) jailed and later escaped. And that's where Uncharted 4 comes in...

In Saturday's Nate/Sam trailer, there are some interesting points of discussion.

YT Scene Link

Nate: How? H..I thought yo...I saw you get shot.
Sam: Yes...you did. Right...there (lifts shirt).
Nate: Jesus...
Sam: Well, the doctors..."doctors"...they patched me up and they...tossed me right back into the cell...
Nate: Yeah, but I...I made calls, I checked everywhere. Everything I heard, everything I found all confirmed you were dead.
Sam: Nathan, we killed a guard. Okay? So they wanted to see me rot in that cell for the rest of my life...

Basically, it seems to me like Sam was one of Nate's partner's in the Turkish museum heist referenced in Uncharted 2. Unfortunately, something went wrong in the heist and a guard was killed...which leads Nate to take extra precaution in Uncharted 2 by not having guns (even going so far as to say "they're just museum guards" to Flynn during prep). During the heist with Sam or the ensuing prison sentence, Sam was shot and then, later, Nate was able to escape from the Turkish prison, under the impression that Sam had been killed.

What I'm really wondering about this connection is what were Nate and Sam after in the initial heist? We know that they're searching for Libertalia in Uncharted 4...was there something in the Turkish museum that would've been a clue to Liberalia back then? Is Uncharted 4's story going to pick up on the same treasure hunt that ended when Sam was shot years ago? Is there no connection at all and I'm losing my mind?

tl;dr - Uncharted 2 may hint that Nate and Sam were looking for Libertalia before Sam was shot and "killed." I also may be crazy.

 

[SlimySnake]

Good theory, but I really dont think it matters how the two were separated. Naughty Dog is more interested in the character motivations than it is in plot details. What matters is that Sam might feel betrayed by his younger brother leaving him for dead or worse, Drake feels guilty leaving him for dead.... especially now that he's turned up alive.

Sam might use Drake's guilt to lure him back to the treasure hunting world. Which I feel is what Druckmann is really interested in.... instead of you know how it happened.

 

[Dance Inferno]

I saw someone mention this in a previous thread. I think it makes sense. Would definitely explain why Nate didn't realize his brother was hanging around somewhere.

 

[-griffy-]

That certainly seems plausible. There could be immediate story connection to a MacGuffin in the new game, or it could just be background to the characters that informs their relationship.

 

[Gskyace]

That's interesting.
Really hope UC4 can link and wrap all series together with a good end.

 

[GalacticMouse]

Good theory, but I really dont think it matters how the two were separated. Naughty Dog is more interested in the character motivations than it is in plot details. What matters is that Sam might feel betrayed by his younger brother leaving him for dead or worse, Drake feels guilty leaving him for dead.... especially now that he's turned up alive.

Sam might use Drake's guilt to lure him back to the treasure hunting world. Which I feel is what Druckmann is really interested in.... instead of you know how it happened.

I definitely agree. Uncharted typically doesn't dwell on the past too too much and character motivations are something that Neil was clearly interested in when writing TLoU. What interests me is whether they're going to spend any significant time exploring what happened during the events that Uncharted 2 talks about.

That's interesting.
Really hope UC4 can link and wrap all series together with a good end.

This is kind of why it stands out to me. They've talked about U4 wrapping their games up and providing closure. With that in mind, it makes sense that they might explore this history quite a bit.

 

[-griffy-]

What interests me is whether they're going to spend any significant time exploring what happened during the events that Uncharted 2 talks about.

Maybe that's what the single player DLC could be.

 

[°°ToMmY°°]

I have quite the feeling Sam will turn out to be a villain or the villain by the end of U4. I don't know why but his appearances and the way he poses himself makes him sound like an untrustful guy...

 

[Kralamoonard]

Holy crap, great theory. Hell, I'd say it's pretty much spot on. I can't find anything that goes against or contradicts what you said. Makes so much sense.

 

[nbnt]

I have quite the feeling Sam will turn out to be a villain or the villain by the end of U4. I don't know why but his appearances and the way he poses himself makes him sound like an untrustful guy...

I have a feeling he's going to be the protagonist, you play as him for like half of the game.

They're gonna pull a MGS2 on us.

 

[EdReedFan20]

Well, Neil Druckmann was a co-writer of Uncharted 2. So, maybe you're right.

 

[GalacticMouse]

Maybe that's what the single player DLC could be.

That'd be really exciting, actually. A couple of much younger Drake brothers biting off more than they can chew with a heist.

I have quite the feeling Sam will turn out to be a villain or the villain by the end of U4. I don't know why but his appearances and the way he poses himself makes him sound like an untrustful guy...

After The Last of Us, I'd be surprised if Druckmann writes Sam so black & white. I think we'll see a lot more exploration of his motivations whether that's through resentment, vengeance, jealousy, etc. I don't expect Sam to be a "good guy" or a "bad guy" in the traditional sense. I suspect his presence in the game will challenge Nate's better judgement and push him to do things he may not normally do (like killing an unarmed guard during the museum heist all those years ago). That having been said, I don't expect Sam will betray Nate in the same way that Flynn does in U2.

 

[Mariolee]

I'm down with this theory.

 

[LastNac]

Im beginning to wonder if Sam is actually Drake's biological brother...

 

[GalacticMouse]

Im beginning to wonder if Sam is actually Drake's biological brother...

Well we know from UC3 that Nate is an orphan, right? Could've been together in a foster home or orphanage as kids?

 

[Hexa]

I have quite the feeling Sam will turn out to be a villain or the villain by the end of U4. I don't know why but his appearances and the way he poses himself makes him sound like an untrustful guy...

I have a feeling he's not going to be a villain exactly but is going to be cowardly, which will result in him betraying Drake at some point, maybe putting Elena in danger in the process, which will result in a major conflict with Nate, but he will later redeem himself but die in the process. He seems more like that type of characters and I feel like that's a character Druckman would use.

 

[LastNac]

Well we know from UC3 that Nate is an orphan, right? Could've been together in a foster home or orphanage as kids?

Thays what im thinking. Almost a situation where two orphans grew up together and built a bound around interests.

 

[Metal B]

It's funny, that their back story centers about a killed Turkish guard. One of the many critic points about Nathan being a mass-murderer. I can't believe, that this isn't a reference.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Very solid theory, and more than likely spot on. I wonder if the DLC is either Drake and Sam's heist gone wrong, and Drake's escape from Prison, or Sam's escape from prison, if he was not sprung by Nadine to be a pawn in her plans.

Or was all can be totally off the mark. I just do not feel Sam will be another Flynn scenario to the "T". It is too cliche, and I think there will be a lot of twists in this one.

It's funny, that their back story centers about a killed Turkish guard. One of the many critic points about Nathan being a mass-murderer. I can't believe, that this isn't a reference.

Do mass murderers empathetically say "no guns" due to what happened last time to an innocent museum guard?

That shoots a hole in the "mindless killer" theory right there.

 

[sirap]

Nathan, we killed a guard. Okay?

*chuckles*

 

[°°ToMmY°°]

I have a feeling he's not going to be a villain exactly but is going to be cowardly, which will result in him betraying Drake at some point, maybe putting Elena in danger in the process, which will result in a major conflict with Nate, but he will later redeem himself but die in the process. He seems more like that type of characters and I feel like that's a character Druckman would use.

Well i didn't mean he'd be the typical villain, but in a way or another nate will have to fight against him during the game. He doesn't look like the type that will be on your side the whole adventure. He's no sully or elena, that's what i meant.

 

[0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55]

Sam's the Thief, he dies, the end. Cue Uncharted 5.
There, mystery solved.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sam's the Thief, he dies, the end. Cue Uncharted 5.
There, mystery solved.

Hahaha, that was my theory as well. Or does he? dun dun dunnnnnn

So who was the third person?

A guard was killed, they assumed Sam was killed... Drake made it out.

 

[texore]

So who was the third person?

 

[GalacticMouse]

So who was the third person?

Someone who was actually killed? No clue. Could be important to the story as well though...depending on how deep they went with the background info. (assuming my theory is right, of course)

 

[cpp_is_king]

99% sure Sam is going to double cross Nate. He's obviously in some trouble. Probably bad guys want something Nate has, and they are forcing Sam to get Nate into a position where he's vulnerable

 

[-griffy-]

Im beginning to wonder if Sam is actually Drake's biological brother...

Their facial features look too similar (and similar to Nolan North) for that not to be the case, I think.

 

[texore]

Someone who was actually killed? No clue. Could be important to the story as well though...depending on how deep they went with the background info. (assuming my theory is right, of course)

That's what I was thinking of first, but if Sam survived than maybe the other person did too.

 

[CHC]

I can definitely see something like this. There is certainly some old history there and the look of surprise on Nate's face when he sees him first definitely indicates that Sam might have been imprisoned / left 4 dead.

 

[DrD]

That's what I was thinking of first, but if Sam survived than maybe the other person did too.

The other person could be Rafe, we know he's a rival treasure hunter that sends mercenaries after Nate and Sam.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That's what I was thinking of first, but if Sam survived than maybe the other person did too.

I am confused, who is this other person?

I thought when they said two people killed, were they not talking about Sam and the guard?

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

Their facial features look too similar (and similar to Nolan North) for that not to be the case, I think.

Their facial features look too similar...

...facial features..

...similar...

 

[Meaty]

Yeah op, you convinced me on your theory.

Im in.

Spoiler

like flynn

 

[lukeskymac]

I thought about this, too.

HAHAHA

 

[GalacticMouse]

Yeah op, you convinced me on your theory.

Im in.

Spoiler

like flynn

"What?"

"Like Flynn, you know..."

"I don't get it."

 

[Memento]

Wow. I think you are spot on OP.

 

[Apdiddy]

I almost wonder if Sam is Nathan's biological brother but like Nathan, he changed his name too to escape his troubled family. It's hard to tell though if what Nathan described in the latest trailer took place before or after the events of the ending of Uncharted 3 or Sam is 'the other guy' from Nathan & Flynn's story. If Sam was, why didn't Nathan have more of a muted reaction in Uncharted 2? In that case, I think Sam shooting a Turkish guard is different than what Drake described in the dialogue with Flynn -- I think it's a coincidence.

I really hope there's a pay off to what was hinted at Uncharted 3 as to Nathan Drake's real name. But part of me hopes there's still mysteries to Drake after the ending.

 

[LuuKyK]

Thats a very interesting theory OP, and it makes a lot of sense.

 

[GalacticMouse]

I almost wonder if Sam is Nathan's biological brother but like Nathan, he changed his name too to escape his troubled family. It's hard to tell though if what Nathan described in the latest trailer took place before or after the events of the ending of Uncharted 3 or Sam is 'the other guy' from Nathan & Flynn's story. If Sam was, why didn't Nathan have more of a muted reaction in Uncharted 2? In that case, I think Sam shooting a Turkish guard is different than what Drake described in the dialogue with Flynn -- I think it's a coincidence.

I really hope there's a pay off to what was hinted at Uncharted 3 as to Nathan Drake's real name. But part of me hopes there's still mysteries to Drake after the ending.

Well I think it's obvious that whatever happened with Sam was before Uncharted 3 (and 1 and 2 for that matter) for a couple reasons...

- We know that the reason Nate stopped speaking to Sam is that Sam was shot and presumed dead.
- Nate has since been married to, separated from, and reunited with Elena, but never told her about Sam (as revealed in Saturday's U4 trailer).
- In the trailer revealed on Saturday, Sam is learning for the firs time about El Dorado, Shambala, and Iram of the Pillars. He would know about one or all of those if he was shot while working with Nate after the events of Drake's Fortune.

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

I would say Nate's and Sam's adventures took place before the series all together, given one of the options is describing the events of Uncharted Drake's Fortune to Sam. What i'm more interested in is where the hell is Sam during the flashback scenes in Uncharted 3? Part of why I'm not the biggest fan of his character, still feels shoe horned in.

 

[cpp_is_king]

Watched the trailer again, and I'm very impressed by how far the technology has come. You can actually feel emotion in Sam and Nate's facial expressions and body language. Like you can pick up pieces of information not just from their words, but from the way they conduct themselves. Many games have tried to do this, but this is the first time I've actually felt it working.

As an example, at the very end of the video you have this dialogue:

Sam: It's unbelievable
Nate: Yea, it really was. I wish you could have been there.
Sam: No, it's... It's literally unbelievable. You tell me you stumble upon another archaeological gold mine, and yet somehow you managed to walk away with nothing.
Nate: Well, that's the story of my life I guess. But, you know, I managed to grab a few trinkets here and there. Paid off the car, the house, the engagement ring. <Some unimportant stuff about how Nate's married>
Sam: Nathan.. I'm in a lot of trouble here.

It's hard to explain, but you can kind of feel Sam's ulterior modive seeping through when he says the stuff about it being unbelievable. This kind of strengthens my earlier theory that Nate has something that the bad guys want. Or at least they think he does, and they sent Sam here to blackmail Nate and get it back.

Anyway, the point of this post is half about where I think the story is going to go, but also half about how good the tech is that this kind of subtle body language actually makes it through in a believable way.

 

[GalacticMouse]

Okay, bumping this because Greg Miller has an interview with Neil Druckmann up on the KindaFunnyGames Youtube page today:

Link Here

Greg: ...How long...when was the last time they saw eachother or how long has passed there for their relationship?
Neil: I don't know if we said this...uhh...but it's 15 years. It's been 15 years since they've seen eachother. So prior to the events of Uncharted 1. We're now a few years after Uncharted 3. Nate's now in his 40s...desk job...rubber stamping it...and then his brother shows up back in his life...

So that clears up a little of the discussion here...we definitely know that Nate and Sam's parting was before Uncharted 1.

 

[Reebot]

The line "tossed me right back into the cell" implies they killed a guard escaping prison, not breaking into a museum.

I think its highly unlikely that Nate's dialogue in Uncharted 2 would be retconned to referencing Sam. For one thing, it makes Nate a callous asshole and undermines his whole "Bro I totally regret leaving you" thing.

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

Well, if Nate was in the orphanage before running away and meeting Sully in Colombia, how did he re connect with sam? If they were an orphanage like that, how are they even related, if at all?

 

[DorkyMohr]

I have quite the feeling Sam will turn out to be a villain or the villain by the end of U4. I don't know why but his appearances and the way he poses himself makes him sound like an untrustful guy...

Willing to bet it'll be another "Alright now help me with this door..." *pulls gun on drake* "Ah jeez, not again!" scene.

 

[GalacticMouse]

Well, if Nate was in the orphanage before running away and meeting Sully in Colombia, how did he re connect with sam? If they were an orphanage like that, how are they even related, if at all?

My take would be something along the lines of their parents dying at a young age and them ending up in an orphanage together. Maybe they were adopted by separate people and Nate's adopted family was living in Columbia at the time?

Hell, Nate was about 15 in the Columbia story, right? Maybe Sam was already 20 and off on his own somewhere at the time? Not saying that's definitive or even my theory...but it would be pretty easy to write something around that idea.

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

My take would be something along the lines of their parents dying at a young age and them ending up in an orphanage together. Maybe they were adopted by separate people and Nate's adopted family was living in Columbia at the time?

Hell, Nate was about 15 in the Columbia story, right? Maybe Sam was already 20 and off on his own somewhere at the time? Not saying that's definitive or even my theory...but it would be pretty easy to write something around that idea.

13/14 odd I think. And given how unsupervised Nate was, I always took it to mean he ran away to Colombia.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Just literally played this part of UC2 and laughed at Drake being so concerned about the museum guards and then throwing one clean off a building.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

Just literally played this part of UC2 and laughed at Drake being so concerned about the museum guards and then throwing one clean off a building.

He knew he'd survive. Just far enough away to not be able to alert other guards.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

He knew he'd survive. Just far enough away to not be able to alert other guards.

"oh boy I sure am glad you have plot armour too"