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United Airlines violently drags a doctor off a plane so employee could take his seat

Why do you fly United?


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Catshade

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Jul 23, 2009
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Since we're talking about numbers...how much should you sue when you got stung by a scorpion?

A Canadian man says he was stung by a scorpion while travelling in business class on a United Airlines flight.

Richard Bell said the scorpion fell from the overhead bin and onto his head during lunch on a trip from Houston, Texas to Calgary in Canada.

After putting it on his plate, he was stung. United has offered compensation.

It happened on Sunday, the same day a United passenger was violently dragged from a plane after refusing to give his seat to a staff member.
 
Mar 16, 2016
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Several million seems so wild to me, I'm happy that he might get that but it sounds like sooo solo much, i am from the UK and you never hear about payouts like that often if at all.

Punitive damages here are determined based on the size of the corporation. Take a look at United's annual profits. Without the award being several millions, it wouldn't truly punish them.
 
Mar 27, 2015
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Heavy concussions could lead to brain damage and other stuff. Not sure if that is worth it

I don't think what they did to him would be typically that bad for someone that is younger. Nothing good, but we have all probably bumped our head and been there. I know I have stood up and knocked the crap out of my head a few times and got fairly dizzy.

I think all hitting, beating etc is really stupid just so you know though.
 

Herr Schwarz

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Nov 6, 2016
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I don't understand American justice.

So by sue does that include seeking people to by put behind bars? The chain of people that were responsible?

Or is this all just a glorified dog and pony shoe to get the biggest amount of cash?

Like to my eyes he was physically assaulted, so whoever ordered the assault to take place and those that carried it out, should be charged.
 
Mar 16, 2016
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I don't understand American justice.

So by sue does that include seeking people to by put behind bars? The chain of people that were responsible?

Or is this all just a glorified dog and pony shoe to get the biggest amount of cash?

Like to my eyes he was physically assaulted, so whoever ordered the assault to take place and those that carried it out, should be charged.

It's up to the government to "sue" people to put them behind bars. Private citizens cannot "sue" to put people in jail.
 

Korey

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Dec 8, 2008
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I don't understand American justice.

So by sue does that include seeking people to by put behind bars? The chain of people that were responsible?

Or is this all just a glorified dog and pony shoe to get the biggest amount of cash?

Like to my eyes he was physically assaulted, so whoever ordered the assault to take place and those that carried it out, should be charged.
Sue means a money award from the defendant (United Airlines, Chicago police). An individual is saying you harmed me, so compensate me for my trouble.

Jail time is only if the government decides to pursue it, and they're found guilty of committing a crime.

Edit: Victim doesn't have to press charges for government to prosecute a crime.
 

Herr Schwarz

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Nov 6, 2016
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Sue means a money award from the defendant (United Airlines, Chicago police).

Jail time is only if the victim presses charges on the cops for assault and they're found guilty in a criminal suit.

I see, they weren't even cops either right, they were just wearing jackets that said they were cops.
 

Korey

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Dec 8, 2008
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I see, they weren't even cops either right, they were just wearing jackets that said they were cops.
They are part of the Chicago Department of Aviation, which is a government entity, but separate from the Chicago police department. So they're not "real" cops, but have some authority to do stuff like detain people until the real cops get there. They're not allowed to carry guns.
 

rjinaz

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Feb 7, 2012
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They are part of the Chicago Department of Aviation, which is a government entity, but separate from the Chicago police department. So they're not "real" cops, but have some authority to do stuff like detain people until the real cops get there. They're not allowed to carry guns.

In a lot of states, most security guards can be classified the same way. Also, most of these people will never encounter a violent situation or one requiring force. They are completely inexperienced. I say this as a former security alarm respondent in Arizona. They should have never been called in the first place.
 

nampad

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Feb 19, 2013
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When my coworker told me about this some days ago I didn't (and he also didn't) know how violent this ws. United deserves all the shit they can get.
 

Turbo Killer

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Sep 10, 2016
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I'm not shitposting. I just live in a part of the world where many many things are different. Imagine that.

Edit: I do support him, of course. What happened to him was horrible. But not millions of dollars horrible, IMO. But we are running in circles. I'm out.

How the fuck do you know it's not worth it? Did you get a concussion and have your front teeth knocked out while being dragged out of a plane on YouTube? This guy was in his 60s, imagine if they did the same to your father. Also, not every doctor is a millionaire.
 

chromatic9

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Oct 17, 2014
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A Concorde flight from Europe to New York crashed in the year 2000. $1.5 million per passenger was said to be paid out as they threatened to sue in US courts. The standard fee is around 100-200k then on to millions if in the US.

If UA get sued for a million or more then they won't pull this shit again and start offering better incentives to leave a seat and perhaps appeal to other passengers if one is adamant they're staying put. What happened to Mr Dao was despicable.

In sports like soccer, a blow to the head the game is stopped and medical assistance is brought on to check for signs, a player can be subbed because it can lead to death and will take a scan at the hospital. It's incredible to me that after Mr Dao smashed his face on the armrest, then next thing wasn't to call an ambulance and to halt proceedings but to drag him out like a piece of meat in a war camp while dazed.
 

ironmang

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A Concorde flight from Europe to New York crashed in the year 2000. $1.5 million per passenger was said to be paid out as they threatened to sue in US courts. The standard fee is around 100-200k then on to millions if in the US.

If UA get sued for a million or more then they won't pull this shit again and start offering better incentives to leave a seat and perhaps appeal to other passengers if one is adamant they're staying put.

To think, this probably would have been avoided if they just offered like $1600 real dollars and a hotel. They deserve to lose millions for the stupidity.
 

BlueTsunami

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Oct 10, 2005
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To think, this probably would have been avoided if they just offered like $1600 real dollars and a hotel. They deserve to lose millions for the stupidity.

This is what happens when a company thinks they have you by the balls/titties. You'll take your 800 UA skybucks and walk away, or we'll scare you with threat of force.
 

S-Wind

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rickyson1

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Jun 14, 2014
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15k for getting your nose broken and teeth knocked out, are you fucking serious? 15 fucking k? A wild idiot appears.

no kidding,factor in the concussion as well and his medical bills alone will be substantially more than that


besides anything in the millions would be mostly punitive anyways
 
Jun 27, 2010
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This is what happens when a company thinks they have you by the balls/titties. You'll take your 800 UA skybucks and walk away, or we'll scare you with threat of force.

Even after this, don't they still do have most Americans by their balls and titties?

Everyone likes to say they'll fly with the competition, but if that competition is more than a ten dollars more expensive or doesn't have as many flights, well convenience will win over any moral outrage people might feel in the short term.
 

numble

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Apr 22, 2007
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Even after this, don't they still do have most Americans by their balls and titties?

Everyone likes to say they'll fly with the competition, but if that competition is more than a ten dollars more expensive or doesn't have as many flights, well convenience will win over any moral outrage people might feel in the short term.



The 4th place airline (in marketshare) doesn't have most Americans by "their balls and titties".
 

Matt

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Jun 7, 2004
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Sue means a money award from the defendant (United Airlines, Chicago police). An individual is saying you harmed me, so compensate me for my trouble.

Jail time is only if the victim presses charges on the cops for assault, the government agrees and decides to pursue it, and they're found guilty in a criminal suit. That's probably not the case here.
A victim doesn't have to "press charges" for the state to prosecute a crime, as crimes are committed against the state, not against individuals.
 
Jun 27, 2010
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The 4th place airline (in marketshare) doesn't have most Americans by "their balls and titties".

Huh, so why do they treat their customers like garbage? Weird as fuck they are happy to just let more marketshare go in the name of being utter cunts.

Do they fly routes others ignore or something?
 

Mr. Giggles

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Dec 23, 2014
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Huh, so why do they treat their customers like garbage? Weird as fuck they are happy to just let more marketshare go in the name of being utter cunts.

Do they fly routes others ignore or something?

Why do they treat their customers like garbage? Part of me feels like they don't factor in customer satisfaction as part of training their work force, either that or the people responsible in this incident felt that as the air operator they could act without consequence using weak excuses like "we had to do what we did because the passenger was a threat to the other passengers" - a by product of behavioural changes since 9/11
 
Jun 27, 2010
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Why do they treat their customers like garbage? Part of me feels like they don't factor in customer satisfaction as part of training their work force, either that or the people responsible in this incident felt that as the air operator they could act without consequence using weak excuses like "we had to do what we did because the passenger was a threat to the other passengers" - a by product of behavioural changes since 9/11

Makes sense. I think with how the CEO initially responded with that internal email, their entire approach to passengers seems to be fuck you, do as we say or we won't let you fly.

That's the kind of thing you can do when you have a monopoly, not when you're fourth in marketshare. Insane, I thought they were just abusing their position in the market to act like cunts, but nope.
 

TyrantII

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Oct 26, 2013
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I don't understand American justice.

So by sue does that include seeking people to by put behind bars? The chain of people that were responsible?

Or is this all just a glorified dog and pony shoe to get the biggest amount of cash?

Like to my eyes he was physically assaulted, so whoever ordered the assault to take place and those that carried it out, should be charged.

Civil vs criminal law. You don't go to jail in civil cases, but must provide restitution none the less.

Criminal judgment have a much higher base to clear to get convictions, because they involve mandatory jail time. The district attorney office also has to agree to bring criminal charges.
 

Slayven

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Dec 10, 2004
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I'm not shitposting. I just live in a part of the world where many many things are different. Imagine that.

Edit: I do support him, of course. What happened to him was horrible. But not millions of dollars horrible, IMO. But we are running in circles. I'm out.
"People are making my shit posts sound like shitposts. I am out"

Always the marytardom
 

Korey

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Dec 8, 2008
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Other airlines are changing their policies due to this incident:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-delta-overbooking-20170414-story.html

Delta is letting employees offer customers almost $10,000 in compensation to give up seats on overbooked flights, hoping to avoid an uproar like the one that erupted at United after a passenger was dragged off a jet.

United is taking steps too. It will require employees seeking a seat on a plane to book it at least an hour before departure, a policy that might have prevented Sunday's confrontation.

...

On Friday, a United spokeswoman said the airline changed its policy to require traveling employees to book a flight at least 60 minutes before departure. Had the rule been in place Sunday, United Express Flight 3411 still would have been overbooked by four seats, but United employees could have dealt with the situation in the gate area instead of on the plane.

Delta Air Lines is moving to make it easier to find customers willing to give up their seats. In an internal memo obtained Friday by the Associated Press, Delta said gate agents can offer up to $2,000, up from a previous maximum of $800, and supervisors can offer up to $9,950, up from $1,350.

United said it is reviewing its compensation policies. The airline would not disclose its current payment limit.

Other airlines said they were examining their policies. American Airlines updated its rules to say that no passenger who has boarded the plane will be removed to give the seat to someone else.

None would describe their limits on paying passengers.

When there aren't enough seats, airlines usually ask for volunteers by offering travel vouchers, gift cards or cash.

Last year Delta got more passengers to give up their seats than any other U.S. airline, partly by paying more than most of the others.

As a result, it had the lowest rate among the largest U.S. airlines of bumping people off flights against their will
— something that is legal but alienates customers and requires the airline to pay compensation of up to $1,350 per person.

...

Ben Schlappig, a travel blogger who first wrote about the Delta compensation increase, said it shows Delta is trying to reduce forced bumping. He said he couldn't imagine many situations in which people wouldn't jump at nearly $10,000.

Delta no doubt hopes that gate agents and their supervisors won't need to make maximum offers, and the financial cost to the airline is likely to be limited. If Delta paid $9,950 to every person it bumped involuntarily last year, that would total $12 million. Delta earned nearly $4.4 billion.

Raising the limits "lets them solve some PR problems" and might head off U.S. Transportation Department regulations to curb overbooking, said another travel blogger, Gary Leff. "They can say, 'Look, we're already solving the problem.'"

An Associated Press analysis of government data shows that in 2015 and 2016, Delta paid an average of $1,118 in compensation for every passenger that it denied a seat. Southwest Airlines paid $758, United $565, and American Airlines $554.

After the incident in Chicago, critics questioned why United didn't offer more when no passengers accepted the airline's $800 offer for volunteers to give up their seats.

"If you offer enough money, even the guy going to a funeral will sell his seat," said Ross Aimer, a retired United pilot.
 

VeeP

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Jan 14, 2013
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Err, yes. The ridiculous amounts people sue for in the US are anything but normal or justifiable. Like, millions of dollars for knocked out teeth? I'll let you knock out two of mine for the bargain price of 100k.

I understand where you coming from man, but things are just kind of like that here in the US.

In this specific case, I can see it being justified.

Dude shouldn't just be compensated for his injuries, but also compensated for the mental trauma he underwent, time spent/wasted by hospitalization, etc etc. From the videos a lone it seemed like he was done mentally and physically, when a company like United does that, I would hope he gets paid more than 100K. There's no excuse.
 

PHOENIXZERO

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Jan 7, 2007
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Err, yes. The ridiculous amounts people sue for in the US are anything but normal or justifiable. Like, millions of dollars for knocked out teeth? I'll let you knock out two of mine for the bargain price of 100k.

This is propaganda perpetrated by corporations and insurance groups who want to see "tort reform" to to cap punitive and special damages, specifically on medical compensation so say a pregnant woman's doctor screws up and it leads to their child having severe disabilities that will require special care for their entire life, insurance companies and their lobbyist (and Republicans who as we know, love protecting big businesses) don't want to be on the hook for covering those costs for decades, there are states that have capped this and it's been disastrous for those families. There might be a lot of lawsuits (big shock with a country of 300M+ people) but tort/personal injury cases make up less than 5% of cases, most don't ever actually file a lawsuit and are settled beforehand.

There are three primary areas of civil lawsuits where money comes from, there's the general damages which just covers pain and suffering and such and usually isn't a huge amount, then there's "special damages" that covers legal reimbursement, medial bills and lost wages. Then there's punitive damages which are generally decided by the jury and judge and are meant to punish and is the primary driver in forcing companies to make changes so they're not at risk for getting sued for the same thing again, that is where the big amounts come from and for good reason.
 

RenditMan

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Jul 22, 2016
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I understand where you coming from man, but things are just kind of like that here in the US.

In this specific case, I can see it being justified.

Dude shouldn't just be compensated for his injuries, but also compensated for the mental trauma he underwent, time spent/wasted by hospitalization, etc etc. From the videos a lone it seemed like he was done mentally and physically, when a company like United does that, I would hope he gets paid more than 100K. There's no excuse.

He also wouldn't have had shyster reporters going through his history and printing any old irrelevant bollocks as well.
 

EatinOlives

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Oct 23, 2011
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Holy crap. But seriously, this guy is believed to receive several million dollars as compensation??? Wow USA. That's not proportional in any way. People who lost relatives on the Germanwings flight get what, hundred thousand Euro? For knocked out teeth and the stress suffered I think something like 10-15k would be more realistic... If he really gets that much, he should donate a large amount to a good cause, seeing as he's a doctor, he won't be needing for cash, anyway.

False equivalency much? Downed flights are a completely unintentional incident wherein the flight crew does everything they can to avoid. This incident is grossly negligent and specifically targeted. The crew was willing to actively put this man in danger because they didn't get their way.

Not to mention the costs associated here, from the fact that every single passenger in the Downed airplane had to be compensated to the cost of the airplane itself. To think that United could've avoided this for a few thousand bucks but instead they willingly chose the worst possible way to solve the problem.

And even if you wanted to ignore all this for some stupid reason, no corporation should ever, EVER treat their paying customers like this. Beating the shit out of someone and dragging them off a plane is the kind of thing you'd see in a dystopia movie depicting an oppressive government, not a fucking coach flight.

No company that treats their customers like this deserves to be in business. If this happened to my dad you bet your ass I'd be suing with the explicit intent of trying to bankrupt the company.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Sep 5, 2004
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How are United's shares so far? Did they stop freefalling aftet the first day?

The problem is that most of the CEOs of airlines are incented to squeeze more money per customer per quarter. United almost literally cannot change direction to be customer focused.

You are just the holes they punch in ring pulls to save aluminum.

That's why the difference between say, Alaska and United is so stark. They're going to pay this guy off, wait a couple of months, then do a lame "we're listening" pr campaign and go right back to monopolizing routes, colluding with competitors and using terrorism to justify an extra $25 to put your daughter's stuffies in the cargo hold.

And united has been awful for long enough that the rottenness has leeched into the rank and file staff. So basically all of your interactions will be absolutely rude and unhelpful.

Oscar can't turn that around and has no incentive to.

He might even leave with a golden parachute and get a CEO job in a completely unrelated business where his pr baggage is actually appealing to ruthless sociopath board members.

Customer focus is gone in public companies until quarterly earnings culture is disrupted unless it was in their DNA already.

Delta is better if you're gonna compare the big ones. US Air was worse. They seemed irritated that people wanted to be on their planes. Continental was horrific and that was the aspect that the United Borg chose to assimilate. And the hilariously bad logo.
 
Dec 14, 2008
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It's been days and I still can't fathom how amazing that poll is.



The 4th place airline (in marketshare) doesn't have most Americans by "their balls and titties".

Because of how the large airlines work, if you happen to be flying a route that transits through or terminates at United hubs, you might actually have little choice but to fly on United.

Unless Southwest flies there. They fly point-to-point, unlike the other airlines which operate on a hub-and-spoke layout.
 

digdug2k

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Apr 11, 2014
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Even after this, don't they still do have most Americans by their balls and titties?

Everyone likes to say they'll fly with the competition, but if that competition is more than a ten dollars more expensive or doesn't have as many flights, well convenience will win over any moral outrage people might feel in the short term.
It's usually way more than $10 difference. I mean, my wife has an "I fucking hate layovers" thing, factored in with trying to find non insane hours usually leaves you with one ootion. Anything else was hundreds to thousands more (even with layovers).

People really don't have much choice in flights.
 

DonMigs85

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Sep 3, 2009
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It's usually way more than $10 difference. I mean, my wife has an "I fucking hate layovers" thing, factored in with trying to find non insane hours usually leaves you with one ootion. Anything else was hundreds to thousands more (even with layovers).

People really don't have much choice in flights.

Sadly that seems to give the airline staff an excuse to be haughty, like they're above working in the service industry.
 

Fades

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Aug 31, 2010
447
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It's usually way more than $10 difference. I mean, my wife has an "I fucking hate layovers" thing, factored in with trying to find non insane hours usually leaves you with one ootion. Anything else was hundreds to thousands more (even with layovers).

People really don't have much choice in flights.

I can attest to this. I fly out a couple times a year to see my husband (and/or vice versa) and United has always been the cheapest and most convenient option by far, usually by $100 or more. Other airlines literally can't compare, and when you're trying to save money, that really counts.
 

Rad-

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15k for getting your nose broken and teeth knocked out, are you fucking serious? 15 fucking k? A wild idiot appears.

To be honest, that's not that weird in Europe. As an example I know someone who lost part of his arm in a freak accident that was partly the company's fault and he only received like 100k €. He will never work again with that arm (not physical labor at least).

Point being that getting millions by sueing sounds weird to most Europeans I reckon.
 

Diablohead

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Jun 4, 2006
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Heard on the uk news this morning that united are now changing their rules in reserving seats for staff, now the seats have to be sorted an hour before the flight.

Why did they just not do this in the first place :| big companies, man.
 

Chumley

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Jul 18, 2016
7,147
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Holy crap. But seriously, this guy is believed to receive several million dollars as compensation??? Wow USA. That's not proportional in any way. People who lost relatives on the Germanwings flight get what, hundred thousand Euro? For knocked out teeth and the stress suffered I think something like 10-15k would be more realistic... If he really gets that much, he should donate a large amount to a good cause, seeing as he's a doctor, he won't be needing for cash, anyway.

You have no idea what you're talking about and you should probably sit down before making yourself look like a bigger fool. Trying to make comparisons to a plane crash, smh.
 

Krixeus

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Apr 9, 2013
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645
Holy crap. But seriously, this guy is believed to receive several million dollars as compensation??? Wow USA. That's not proportional in any way. People who lost relatives on the Germanwings flight get what, hundred thousand Euro? For knocked out teeth and the stress suffered I think something like 10-15k would be more realistic... If he really gets that much, he should donate a large amount to a good cause, seeing as he's a doctor, he won't be needing for cash, anyway.

 
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