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Unlike previous gens I can see cross gen games living on forever for an entire generation

KAL2006

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Hear me out, this is the first generation where the architecture is the same as the previous generation. So development costs for making games cross gen is not much. There was a reason why Gran Turismo 6 and Puppeteer were PS3 only when PS4 was already out if nearing release. Same thing happened with God of War 2 for PS2. We come at a point where we don't need remaster studios to remaster games for the next generation.

I do truly believe we will have next gen only games for majority of AAA games by 2023 however I don't see why we won't get a ton of indie games and AA games being cross gen that don't require the power for the entire generation while PS4 is sold at a budget price. I can even see a PS4 Super Slim coming out that's digital only for £150 with a game bundled in.

Once the PS6 comes out I believe we will hit a point where PS5 will basically have games including AAA supported all the way till PS7.
 

Clear

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One of the most impacting effects of COVID has been a lot of devs shifting in whole or in part to remote working. I suspect in the end it won't have any long-term impacts on efficiency but the process of transition will have added 6-12months delay to a lot of schedules.

Its unfortunate, but its the global reality we're living in. I suspect by 2023 things will be back to normal in terms of release cadence.
 

Rudius

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Games take a long time to develop nowadays, 3 to 4 years for a big one. When Horizon and God of War Ragnarok started development in 2017 and 2018 the PS4 was at its peak and the PS5 wasn't fully formed yet.

Games starting development this year and beyond can skip the PS4. Non demanding ones will get PS4 versions, like it happened all the way through the PS3 generation for PS2 games, but the defining games of the generation will be next gen only.
 
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GymWolf

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Basically what is happening right now in the sony/M headquarters




Greedy cunts.
 
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Murdoch

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Totally agree. The previous gens hardware is powerful enough to run indie games perpetually.
 

Rolla

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Once a new generation arrives, my "old" console gets boxed up and gifted or sold. That's how it's always been. I'm interested to see how this next gen console expands and improves upon this hobby that I adore. Going back to old gen games once the new console is booted up, for me, feels like a step backwards. Particularly with the DualSense controller and the sublime haptic implementation.

My gaming list thus far this generation on PS5

Returnal
Sackboy
Miles Morales
COD: Black Ops Cold War
Demon Souls Remake
Resident Evil Village
Ratchet Rift Apart... Arrived today courtesy of SimplyGames UK but I'm waiting for the Next Gen patch to go live.

My PS5 has been feasting. Which makes the reliance on last gen feel more like a necessity from certain quarters, dressed up as being good for gamers.
 

Bonfires Down

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I think with the PS6 AAA developers will want to move on to lighting solutions heavily reliant on ray tracing, and the PS5 likely won’t be able to keep up. There’s also the fact that they would have to support the Series S which would feel ancient by then.
 
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Bernd Lauert

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Once a new generation arrives, my "old" console gets boxed up and gifted or sold. That's how it's always been. I'm interested to see how this next gen console expands and improves upon this hobby that I adore. Going back to old gen games once the new console is booted up, for me, feels like a step backwards. Particularly with the DualSense controller and the sublime haptic implementation.

My gaming list thus far this generation on PS5

Returnal
Sackboy
Miles Morales
COD: Black Ops Cold War
Demon Souls Remake
Resident Evil Village
Ratchet Rift Apart... Arrived today courtesy of SimplyGames UK but I'm waiting for the Next Gen patch to go live.

My PS5 has been feasting. Which makes the reliance on last gen feel more like a necessity from certain quarters, dressed up as being good for gamers.
It was very subtle until the last sentence. I rate it 5/10.
 

KAL2006

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I think the key thing is the architecture being the same. PS4, Xbox One, PS5, Series, PC all have the same architecture. So releasing a game like Rayman Legends or Bugsnax on all those platforms won't hold these games back and the porting process is much easier than ever before. These types of games haven't really pushed hardware at all. If indie Devs or AAA Devs are really struggling to have these games perform they can easily just roll back the settings to 720p 30fps. I just cant see why a game that doesn't push hardware also release on last gen systems for the entire PS5 generation especially due to architecture being the same between the systems.
 
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Ozzie666

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I could understand this, I mean, it's not much different to a normal PC game right?

But those Jaguar Core's more than anything, will hold back game design. If the CPU's in the PS4 and Xbox One were stronger, then maybe. Microsoft or Sony, will not isolate the One X or PS4 Pro as base line systems, which would provide the ultimate bottom. They wont fragment that base, it's not worth it.

PS4 and PS5 games would be more than just ports, would be features missing. The best failure I can think of was Shadow of Mordor, where the Nemesis system was just ripped out on old systems. No one wants that anymore.
 
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WoodyStare

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It’s a fair point, and it’s also where we’re probably going to see most of the 120fps games on console, considering how things have gone so far in regards to that.

Not sure if Sony would do it nowadays, but I’d love an all digital PS4 slim for $150-$200.
 

Rolla

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It was very subtle until the last sentence. I rate it 5/10.

So I haven't played those PS5 games or Publishers are going cross gen for the bigger audience/sales? Playstation has GT, HZD, and other games going cross gen. The fact that I chose to play the next gen only version means what exactly?
 
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KAL2006

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I could understand this, I mean, it's not much different to a normal PC game right?

But those Jaguar Core's more than anything, will hold back game design. If the CPU's in the PS4 and Xbox One were stronger, then maybe. Microsoft or Sony, will not isolate the One X or PS4 Pro as base line systems, which would provide the ultimate bottom. They wont fragment that base, it's not worth it.

Do you think a game like Bugsnax or Rayman Legends requires anything more than a Jaguar CPU. Also do you think some of these devs don't want to put in the extra budget to make a overly ambitious game so don't really care about jaguar CPU. Like if the next Hollow Knight is still 2D would the developer really needs anything more than a Jaguar CPU.

I just think nowadays we have a ton of indie and AA games that it would be strange if the devs ignore the PS4. Unless the sales for PS4 games are so bad and are under 5 percent of overall sales between the PS4/PS5 split.
 

Ozzie666

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Do you think a game like Bugsnax or Rayman Legends requires anything more than a Jaguar CPU. Also do you think some of these devs don't want to put in the extra budget to make a overly ambitious game so don't really care about jaguar CPU. Like if the next Hollow Knight is still 2D would the developer really needs anything more than a Jaguar CPU.

I just think nowadays we have a ton of indie and AA games that it would be strange if the devs ignore the PS4. Unless the sales for PS4 games are so bad and are under 5 percent of overall sales between the PS4/PS5 split.

Good point, most my gaming is more geared towards AAA or high profile titles. I suppose there is such a large install base, if they develop for PS4, those will carry forward to PS5 with minimal effort. So I guess it also depends on the company and if they push games forward in terms of graphics and physics. You may be right, the PC architecture does change a lot in terms of longevity potential. But it won't be for everyone. But something like the new Turtles Game and lesser ambitious stuff, sure.
 

supernova8

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A lot of the indie shite these days (don't get me wrong there are plenty of good indie titles) will run on a potato so of course they will run on PS4/XB1.
 

FunkMiller

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My PS5 has been feasting. Which makes the reliance on last gen feel more like a necessity from certain quarters, dressed up as being good for gamers.

I don't know what makes me fear for the future of the video games industry more: that game companies think they can get away with hamstringing innovation so they can sell their products to as many people as possible, or that so many gamers will defend them for doing it.
 
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NeoIkaruGAF

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I don’t see the problem with this.

Maybe most of you have always been rich enough to afford a new gen the minute it was out, or you’ve forgotten your early years - but for most people, the beginning of a new hardware gen isn’t the end of the previous one.
People kept playing NES long after the 16-bit gen had started. Same for PSOne when PS2 was out, let alone record-seller PS2 when $599 PS3 launched.

The death of custom dedicated architecture just means that those who - for a wide variety of perfectly sensible reasons - want to hold on to the previous gen, will now be so lucky that truly big games will keep being released for their old console for a while longer.

There is no Table of Video Games Law stating that current gen is the only way to play video games. A lot of people play games on hardware that is far from cutting edge - arguably, the vast majority do, since even brand new consoles aren’t on the same level of the latest PC hardware.

Cross-gen is perfectly normal during cross-gen periods. It’s high time some people accept this.
 

ZywyPL

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No. Not gonna happen. Ever. Because who buys PS5/XSX? People who owned PS4/XB1. It's the exact same ~160M audience each generation that migrates to newer hardware, for each 1M next-gen consoles sold there are 1M less last-gen users, the more time passes the less and less last-gen console users are left, so sooner or later every console generation will reach the point where it's simply financially not profitable to bother porting games down on old hardware with so little userbase.

Plus there's the ease of development the newer hardware always brings (which helps in cutting down the production), that makes the devs to abandon the old platforms as soon as possible, today we have a really powerful Zen2 CPUs and SSDs which give the devs a ton of freedom, tomorrow it'll be full-fat RT support that will kill the need of manually pre-baking all the lightning, reflections etc. The technology progresses in a rapid pace, whoever doesn't follow stays behind, and that's a position no one in the gaming industry wants to find himself in.
 

KAL2006

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No. Not gonna happen. Ever. Because who buys PS5/XSX? People who owned PS4/XB1. It's the exact same ~160M audience each generation that migrates to newer hardware, for each 1M next-gen consoles sold there are 1M less last-gen users, the more time passes the less and less last-gen console users are left, so sooner or later every console generation will reach the point where it's simply financially not profitable to bother porting games down on old hardware with so little userbase.

Plus there's the ease of development the newer hardware always brings (which helps in cutting down the production), that makes the devs to abandon the old platforms as soon as possible, today we have a really powerful Zen2 CPUs and SSDs which give the devs a ton of freedom, tomorrow it'll be full-fat RT support that will kill the need of manually pre-baking all the lightning, reflections etc. The technology progresses in a rapid pace, whoever doesn't follow stays behind, and that's a position no one in the gaming industry wants to find himself in.

Again I'm talking about indie Devs and AA games mainly that will support older hardware.

And not everyone buys the latest system even 3 years into a generation and this is a very strange time for console gaming where people are used to their service games like Fortnite and Minecraft. A player who mainly plays Minecraft or Fortnite and barely plays any other games why would they bother to upgrade. And I cannot see a Fortnite 2 anytime soon that has a higher system spec requirement as that type of game is something the developers want running on phones and cheap laptops. We still have WoW that's ancient, once a service games gains it's playerbase they usually don't want to start again with higher spec requirements where they cannot market towards Tablet and Laptop players.

And parents wanting to upgrade their kids from tablets to a console I can see Sony marketing a PS4 Ultra Slim with bundled games like Spiderman, Fortnite V Bucks for dirt cheap. Alot of GAF maybe surprised but console gaming tastes are not always similar to people on this message boards.
 

GymWolf

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I don’t see the problem with this.

Maybe most of you have always been rich enough to afford a new gen the minute it was out, or you’ve forgotten your early years - but for most people, the beginning of a new hardware gen isn’t the end of the previous one.
People kept playing NES long after the 16-bit gen had started. Same for PSOne when PS2 was out, let alone record-seller PS2 when $599 PS3 launched.

The death of custom dedicated architecture just means that those who - for a wide variety of perfectly sensible reasons - want to hold on to the previous gen, will now be so lucky that truly big games will keep being released for their old console for a while longer.

There is no Table of Video Games Law stating that current gen is the only way to play video games. A lot of people play games on hardware that is far from cutting edge - arguably, the vast majority do, since even brand new consoles aren’t on the same level of the latest PC hardware.

Cross-gen is perfectly normal during cross-gen periods. It’s high time some people accept this.
It was never perfectly normal for sony and his big hitters first party in the previous gen, i don't know why this narrative is even a thing...

Black flag, shadow od mordor, sports games, or indie games ARE NOT big first sony party.

There is no ps3 version of kz 4, infamous 3, the order, knack, bloodborne not any other big game from sony.
Exactly like there was no ps2 version of uncharted, heavenly sword, folklore, genji etc.
And i can go back to ps2 era when even big third parties were all in the new console like tekken tag, doa2, ready to rumble2, orphen, eternal ring, timesplitters etc. Etc.

Some people want to push this narrative? Ok, but don't expect for people to believe when they knows better.
(Talking in general here)
 
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EDMIX

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Well, of course.

Both Microsoft and Sony have realised that they can carry on selling games to as many people as possible, for as long as possible, so why on earth would they stop?

Sure but, you could have argued that with PS2 or PS3 etc. At the time of releasing new systems, the older systems will always have larger install bases. So to say why on earth would they stop? Why the fuck did they stop with PS2, PS3, XB, 360 etc?

I mean......do you actually have anything different happening right now that is that much different? Its still a battle of numbers. So Sony and MS will clearly make some exclusive stuff for the generation when they are faced with other publisher making ace next gen exclusive stuff that will outsell what they have. Its why you can't just fucking keep on doing a cross gen Battlefield, because they still need to compete with Call Of Duty and vice versa. They don't live in bubbles, they must factor in other publishers. Shit, if it was that damn good, why do we have Demon Soul remake? Returnal? Ratchet? So if they have no issue doing that day 1, they'll have no issue doing that a year later or 2 years later etc when developers start rolling out their next gen only stuff.
 

kyliethicc

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Hear me out, this is the first generation where the architecture is the same as the previous generation. So development costs for making games cross gen is not much. There was a reason why Gran Turismo 6 and Puppeteer were PS3 only when PS4 was already out if nearing release. Same thing happened with God of War 2 for PS2. We come at a point where we don't need remaster studios to remaster games for the next generation.

I do truly believe we will have next gen only games for majority of AAA games by 2023 however I don't see why we won't get a ton of indie games and AA games being cross gen that don't require the power for the entire generation while PS4 is sold at a budget price. I can even see a PS4 Super Slim coming out that's digital only for £150 with a game bundled in.

Once the PS6 comes out I believe we will hit a point where PS5 will basically have games including AAA supported all the way till PS7.

Persona 5 was a PS3 game that came out in 2017. And it got a 95 on metacritic and people love it.

So of course some games will be cross gen later on, but next gen only games will be important for new game design.

But, this gen will be the first to have lots of ongoing online games carry over from PS4 and keep going. (Fortnite, CoD, GTA, Apex, Destiny, Rocket League, R6 Siege, Overwatch, GT, etc.) And those games will likely continue to be very popular for a long time.
 

EDMIX

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There is no ps3 version of kz 4, infamous 3, the order, knack, bloodborne not any other big game from sony.

PS3 also ran on the Cell, so a logical reason exist on why many titles didn't get that treatment, yet PS4 titles actually still got cross gen games on PS3.

Same with PS3 to PS2.

Only difference here is the PS4 and XONE were designed pretty fucking well to allow for cross gen titles of the AAA varity. So I'd argue those systems having very complicated design is likely why you saw only sports titles like MLB, NBA, NHL or ATV or stuff like Modnation racers etc do many cross gen stuff. They are also less complicated games. So with both systems using x86, I can see how that ease of development would allow for more cross gen stuff.

I mean shit, the fact that if Sony could....THEY DID with those titles on PS2, PS3, PS4 etc shows they fucking actually want to do those cross gen games......IF THEY ACTUALLY CAN WORK. It means you are not even talking about a brand new idea with the publishers here, you are simply seeing a publisher that did this in the past, able to now do this with bigger titles because PS4 uses x86 and not horseshit cell.......you are not talking about some wild thing here.

Thats likely why we've yet to even see a remaster or port or anything like that of Metal Gear Solid 4. Its being ported from a pretty fucking dumpster ass system lol So when you are saying "derr was no ______ on PS3" sir, PS3 also didn't use x86..... its why PS4 doesn't have BC, soooooo yea, the issues with PS3 are the reason behind lots of things happening with PS5, that did not happen with PS4......like BC.....like MORE cross gen titles, shit....its almost as if older systems design matters for this to work with some games? hmmmmm
 

KAL2006

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Sure but, you could have argued that with PS2 or PS3 etc. At the time of releasing new systems, the older systems will always have larger install bases. So to say why on earth would they stop? Why the fuck did they stop with PS2, PS3, XB, 360 etc?

I mean......do you actually have anything different happening right now that is that much different? Its still a battle of numbers. So Sony and MS will clearly make some exclusive stuff for the generation when they are faced with other publisher making ace next gen exclusive stuff that will outsell what they have. Its why you can't just fucking keep on doing a cross gen Battlefield, because they still need to compete with Call Of Duty and vice versa. They don't live in bubbles, they must factor in other publishers. Shit, if it was that damn good, why do we have Demon Soul remake? Returnal? Ratchet? So if they have no issue doing that day 1, they'll have no issue doing that a year later or 2 years later etc when developers start rolling out their next gen only stuff.

It seems like you didn't reap my posts properly

To answer the questions why not do the same with PS2, PS3.

Well the main reason is architecture. The PS4 and PS5 are basically PCs and to deleop software across PS4, PS5 and PC the effort it minimal. In comparison to developing a game on PS3 and PS4 the porting cost will be more.

Architecture is just one of the reasons why. Another reason is due to service based games. Fortnite and Minecraft have to run on laptops and tablets so there will be a much larger audience staying on PS4 just for games like Fortnite and won't feel the need to have to upgrade. And devs like Epic won't pull support for these service based games in older hardware.

The final reason is the quantity of AA and Indie games is much higher than the last generation. These games don't push hardware and can easily run on PS4 for the entire PS5 generation, and we can go back full circle back to architecture, the indie and AA devs will have a low cost porting cost due to this and finally we can go back to userbase due to the games like Fortnite there will always be a massive userbase on PS4.

Using previous gens as an example for your argument shows that you don't look at things logically, you have ignored architecture low cost porting, service based games audience and the mass availability of indie and AA games.
 
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phil_t98

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Consoles are gonna go the way on phones where software is backward and forward comparable , so game will work across generations as they say. No what we are used to though
 
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NikuNashi

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I don’t see the problem with this.

Maybe most of you have always been rich enough to afford a new gen the minute it was out, or you’ve forgotten your early years - but for most people, the beginning of a new hardware gen isn’t the end of the previous one.
People kept playing NES long after the 16-bit gen had started. Same for PSOne when PS2 was out, let alone record-seller PS2 when $599 PS3 launched.

The death of custom dedicated architecture just means that those who - for a wide variety of perfectly sensible reasons - want to hold on to the previous gen, will now be so lucky that truly big games will keep being released for their old console for a while longer.

There is no Table of Video Games Law stating that current gen is the only way to play video games. A lot of people play games on hardware that is far from cutting edge - arguably, the vast majority do, since even brand new consoles aren’t on the same level of the latest PC hardware.

Cross-gen is perfectly normal during cross-gen periods. It’s high time some people accept this.
True, however you cannot expect new games to be released on your old hardware. You have a massive library of games to enjoy at your leisure, please do. But the new games get released on the new system.
 

GymWolf

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PS3 also ran on the Cell, so a logical reason exist on why many titles didn't get that treatment, yet PS4 titles actually still got cross gen games on PS3.

Same with PS3 to PS2.

Only difference here is the PS4 and XONE were designed pretty fucking well to allow for cross gen titles of the AAA varity. So I'd argue those systems having very complicated design is likely why you saw only sports titles like MLB, NBA, NHL or ATV or stuff like Modnation racers etc do many cross gen stuff. They are also less complicated games. So with both systems using x86, I can see how that ease of development would allow for more cross gen stuff.

I mean shit, the fact that if Sony could....THEY DID with those titles on PS2, PS3, PS4 etc shows they fucking actually want to do those cross gen games......IF THEY ACTUALLY CAN WORK. It means you are not even talking about a brand new idea with the publishers here, you are simply seeing a publisher that did this in the past, able to now do this with bigger titles because PS4 uses x86 and not horseshit cell.......you are not talking about some wild thing here.

Thats likely why we've yet to even see a remaster or port or anything like that of Metal Gear Solid 4. Its being ported from a pretty fucking dumpster ass system lol So when you are saying "derr was no ______ on PS3" sir, PS3 also didn't use x86..... its why PS4 doesn't have BC, soooooo yea, the issues with PS3 are the reason behind lots of things happening with PS5, that did not happen with PS4......like BC.....like MORE cross gen titles, shit....its almost as if older systems design matters for this to work with some games? hmmmmm
I'm the final client, i don't give a damn about what they can do with similar or different hardware, i only watch the final result, and the final result was that sony never had his big heavy hitters except a fucking baseball game in their old console, and this is a fact.

people can spin this with all the arguments in the world, the final result doens't change so people talking like we had to expect this crossgen bullcrap for juggernauts like gow or horizon is in complete denial or just lying.

And tbh, ps4 and ps5 are not that similar, the difference in performance for cpu and ssd are gigantic even if they run on that x86 thing you talked about, devs are still have to work around a 2013 hardware that was already shit during ps4 launch.
 
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EDMIX

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Well the main reason is architecture. The PS4 and PS5 are basically PCs and to deleop software across PS4, PS5 and PC the effort it minimal. In comparison to developing a game on PS3 and PS4 the porting cost will be more.

Logical.

Using previous gens as an example for your argument shows that you don't look at things logically, you have ignored architecture low cost porting

I actually don't, in another comment I bring that up. Is a valid point, regardless I don't see them continuing cross gen stuff with AAA titles. Other publishers competing with each other will see to that. Anything in terms of AA is moot as that is already how shit is on PS3 or 360 as those 2 systems still actually get indie titles, plus if you mean AA like Dying Light or something ,even stuff like that will still use beefy hardware to move units to compete with other AA games. I don't know how many developers will really be looking to spend a whole generation nerfing their games to sell on PS4 and XONE when both systems will simply get surpassed by the new systems in sales anyway in terms of active install base.

So I believe you do have a valid point, I simply disagree that most will seek this forever thing. Look at it like this, fuck AA games, even indie shit by some publishers skip PS3 and 360. Stuff like I Am Setsuna and Lost Sphear, both are pretty low titles in terms of demanding that clearly could work on PS3 or 360, so clearly after some time, its not worth it for them to keep supporting a low base. So how on earth would AA pull this off when they have bigger budgets?

So I admit my comment regarding why they stopped before simply can't apply here based on what you've stated and what I've stated to another user in terms of the current and past gen using x86 and admit it is more debatable then I first believed. You make a great argument sir lol

I still feel the install base will factor for those AA, AAA and even indie titles, but time will tell. I have no issue being wrong on this as for all I know several publisher look to just keep their Fortnite looking games living on past gen and current gen for entire generation or something.
 

KAL2006

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True, however you cannot expect new games to be released on your old hardware. You have a massive library of games to enjoy at your leisure, please do. But the new games get released on the new system.

I agree with this God of War, Horizon and Gran Turismo sequels being cross gen is disappointing and hopefully they are the last cross gen games from Sony and only cross gen as they started development on PS4. But what I'm mainly talking about on this thread is I believe there will be games that Sony require higher specs to run and don't push hardware much. Particularly from indie and AA games as well as support for service based games that started on PS4 and are too big to cut support such as Fortnite. I believe because of these types of games we will have a much longer cross gen period for these types of games.
 
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KAL2006

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Logical.



I actually don't, in another comment I bring that up. Is a valid point, regardless I don't see them continuing cross gen stuff with AAA titles. Other publishers competing with each other will see to that. Anything in terms of AA is moot as that is already how shit is on PS3 or 360 as those 2 systems still actually get indie titles, plus if you mean AA like Dying Light or something ,even stuff like that will still use beefy hardware to move units to compete with other AA games. I don't know how many developers will really be looking to spend a whole generation nerfing their games to sell on PS4 and XONE when both systems will simply get surpassed by the new systems in sales anyway in terms of active install base.

So I believe you do have a valid point, I simply disagree that most will seek this forever thing. Look at it like this, fuck AA games, even indie shit by some publishers skip PS3 and 360. Stuff like I Am Setsuna and Lost Sphear, both are pretty low titles in terms of demanding that clearly could work on PS3 or 360, so clearly after some time, its not worth it for them to keep supporting a low base. So how on earth would AA pull this off when they have bigger budgets?

So I admit my comment regarding why they stopped before simply can't apply here based on what you've stated and what I've stated to another user in terms of the current and past gen using x86 and admit it is more debatable then I first believed. You make a great argument sir lol

I still feel the install base will factor for those AA, AAA and even indie titles, but time will tell. I have no issue being wrong on this as for all I know several publisher look to just keep their Fortnite looking games living on past gen and current gen for entire generation or something.

This goes back to my argument that the porting costs are much cheaper as both PS4 and PS5 are basically PC type hardware. The reason Lost Sphere didn't release on PS3 was because it wasn't worth the porting effort. Finally back to my argument I believe PS4 will have a bigger userbase of gamers who won't upgrade due to games like Minecraft and Fortnite which means that the devs making a Lost Sphere type game would want to release go that audience and factoring audience and porting costs is the reason why I believe this gen will have a long term cross gen of games.
 
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AJUMP23

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Activision is going to keep that Modern Warfare Battle royal going as long as they can.

And any company wants to maximize any profit they have. You want to sell to the current user base and grow the new one.
 
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SJRB

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Console shortages will probably prolong the cross-gen period a bit longer, but there's no way cross-gen is here to stay.

I also doubt many third party devs would be okay with this considering the insane amount of SKU's they need to make their games for.
 
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EDMIX

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because it wasn't worth the porting effort.

Makes sense. Even with Lost Sphear being a low budget type game that isn't demanding, it doesn't change how complex the PS3 was.


I believe PS4 will have a bigger userbase of gamers who won't upgrade due to games like Minecraft and Fortnite

I disagree. I believe that base is indeed large, but I believe they will go over to the PS5 over time if they are fanatics for those IP.

1. Future Fortnite aka FortDay lol
2. If they love that IP, they still want the competitive edge, which means they are likely the ones even getting a PS5 now to get those better frames and features from Fortnite. I think PS4 by default will have the larger units sold, but over time just like with other past systems PS5 will simply surpass it. I don't see enough info to believe PS5 is not moving record units because of people who just want to play Fortnite.

I do however believe your points are valid even if I don't agree with them.

AJUMP23 AJUMP23 Likely. I feel they want to keep it going so long as EA wants to keep BF cross platform. Which ever one blink first will cause that shift lol The only thing that will really make them do a full next gen title, is fear that a rival will do one first.
 
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ZywyPL

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this is why we should be worried about cross gen games being a permanent thing, we want new game expieriences not held back by last gen tech

I'm not worried at all about this, because really, did loading screens really bothered anyone in the past half a century? Or stairs and elevators every once in a while? Seriously? I can recall literally just a few examples where the cut-scenes did took too long and felt forced, but in most, and I mean 99,9999% of the games it all feels rather natural with hiding the background loadings, the devs have been doing it for decades, they know how to handle it, especially in PS360 times where due to very small RAM pool the devs have adopted all sort of sophisticated streaming technologies, and now he have those huge, virtually unlimited open-worlds.

What worries me is that damn Jaguar CPU, because really, a single can in HL2 has more physic applied to it than all those open-worlds from PS4/XB1 combined...


Again I'm talking about indie Devs and AA games mainly that will support older hardware.

And not everyone buys the latest system even 3 years into a generation and this is a very strange time for console gaming where people are used to their service games like Fortnite and Minecraft. A player who mainly plays Minecraft or Fortnite and barely plays any other games why would they bother to upgrade. And I cannot see a Fortnite 2 anytime soon that has a higher system spec requirement as that type of game is something the developers want running on phones and cheap laptops. We still have WoW that's ancient, once a service games gains it's playerbase they usually don't want to start again with higher spec requirements where they cannot market towards Tablet and Laptop players.

And parents wanting to upgrade their kids from tablets to a console I can see Sony marketing a PS4 Ultra Slim with bundled games like Spiderman, Fortnite V Bucks for dirt cheap. Alot of GAF maybe surprised but console gaming tastes are not always similar to people on this message boards.

Yeah but like I said, the more PS5/XSX are out there more the PS4/XB1 market shrinks, so that leaves the devs with all the trouble of making their games for much more SKUs (PS4, XB1, Pro, 1X) for little to no profit. I can imagine a simple 2D games being easily ported across generations, but that's about it.
 

AJUMP23

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AJUMP23 AJUMP23 Likely. I feel they want to keep it going so long as EA wants to keep BF cross platform. Which ever one blink first will cause that shift lol The only thing that will really make them do a full next gen title, is fear that a rival will do one first.
I think Battlefield will go first, as activation is less likely to feel the pressure from EA. I think the COD teams are all working to a mantra that will keep the battle royal relevant with a good Single player offering.
 
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phil_t98

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I'm not worried at all about this, because really, did loading screens really bothered anyone in the past half a century? Or stairs and elevators every once in a while? Seriously? I can recall literally just a few examples where the cut-scenes did took too long and felt forced, but in most, and I mean 99,9999% of the games it all feels rather natural with hiding the background loadings, the devs have been doing it for decades, they know how to handle it, especially in PS360 times where due to very small RAM pool the devs have adopted all sort of sophisticated streaming technologies, and now he have those huge, virtually unlimited open-worlds.

What worries me is that damn Jaguar CPU, because really, a single can in HL2 has more physic applied to it than all those open-worlds from PS4/XB1 combined...




Yeah but like I said, the more PS5/XSX are out there more the PS4/XB1 market shrinks, so that leaves the devs with all the trouble of making their games for much more SKUs (PS4, XB1, Pro, 1X) for little to no profit. I can imagine a simple 2D games being easily ported across generations, but that's about it.

Your thinking of it to simplistic, it’s not just loading screens it’s level design to, next gen level design will be held back by last gen.

How long do we want to go on buying last gen games on our shiner new consoles with a few bells and whistles added on to make it look a bit shinier
 
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Crimson_Fate

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I understand Sony wants to make $$ off of their existing base, especially with PS5 shortages . I would be ok with Crossgen games if they were handled differently and not developed in parallel.

Develop the game for next gen only, take advantage of all the unique HW capabilities. Then they can then go ahead and port that game to the previous gen or PC . Maybe compromises need to be made or pieces of the game altered to work on older HW ( or the game just can't work properly and should not be ported at all) But at least it doesn't leave a bad taste in peoples mouth
 

teezzy

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Can you please explain what a generation is?

Sorry, I play on PC
 

namekuseijin

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the concept of generations is done

think any of the minicrap, 8-bit looking games kids play these days care much?

I think this was the ultimate plan by Microsoft how to win over Sony: make a PS1-looking blocky game the most popular out there for a few generations until that's all current gamers care about, either on (windows) pc, phone or dying consoles
 

EDMIX

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I think Battlefield will go first, as activation is less likely to feel the pressure from EA. I think the COD teams are all working to a mantra that will keep the battle royal relevant with a good Single player offering.

True. I don't recall who did a current gen only title first.

Ok, so I looked it up and basically both did around the same time.

Call Of Duty Infinite Warfare comes out in 2016
Battlefield 1 comes out in 2016

Looking it up, I completely forgot, EA does Battlefront 1 the year prior and its only on current gen. Though not Battlefield, it shows EA might be more willing to go first in this area with one of their IP. Who knows this time around as with x86 making for that smooth transition, they might do more cross gen stuff. Who knows.
 

Agent X

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It's highly possible that we will still see PlayStation 4 and Xbox One games being produced for 3, 4, or even more years. This is due to the fact that PS5 and Xbox Series X/S use similar architectures to their predecessors and have backward compatibility. It means that developers of smaller-scale or less technically demanding games can easily target all of these systems. The high-end AAA productions will gradually shift to the newer generation exclusively, because they'll want to utilize the added power and abilities, but the low-end stuff can still hit the old hardware and reach the largest possible audience.

If a game can work well on the older systems without any noticeable sacrifice in performance, then there's no reason why they shouldn't be made available for the older systems.
 

IntentionalPun

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Really just gonna depend on consumer habits.

The tech makes it easy.. most devs don't exist to push the latest and greatest hardware... but if consumers stop buying last-gen games, they will ditch it.. what that cutoff point is, is another question.. is it something like only ~10% of sales? Probably down to the publisher and/or individual dev really, or individual game for that matter.
 
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01011001

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I mean, at least ubisoft will most likely stay on PS4 and Xbox One for the time being lol

Just Dance man... the ultimate cross gen title!
 

ZywyPL

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Your thinking of it to simplistic, it’s not just loading screens it’s level design to, next gen level design will be held back by last gen.

How long do we want to go on buying last gen games on our shiner new consoles with a few bells and whistles added on to make it look a bit shinier

OK but what do exactly does this so-called "next-gen level design" actually means? I see people on the internet throwing the term freely left and right but I'm yet to see or just even read about any concrete example, I've been asking for it since that infamous Road to PS5 presentation over a year ago what the "game-changing paradigm shift" is and I'm still to get a single answer, everyone is just like "you just wait!"...

And most importantly what's in it for me, you know, for the person who will be playing the games? Because I'm not a game/level designer, I couldn't care less how their pipeline will change if I'll still have to play the exact same trivial games that rely on cut-scenes, scripts, QTEs, prompt takedowns/finishers etc. because there's barely anything the games actually do in real time, the exact same dull gameplays just prettier, or even less interactive than they're now, when interactivity is what should separate videogames from movies...

VFXVeteran VFXVeteran posted yesterday in some other thread a good list where the SSD might actually be helpful, but that list is very short. Long story short, SSD alone won't bring any new gameplay mechanics, at all, if we want to experience something really new the devs must start utilizing those Zen2 threads. The consoles could've been still using ordinary HDDs and it wouldn't stop the devs creativity, the artist might have a hard time, but not the gameplay designers.

Few examples - yesterday's revealed BF - looks great, visually, but the destruction is still light years behind what PS3/X360 offered, that was than "next-gen" ingredient given by those consoles which modern games are missing. KZ2 had some nice destruction as well and many interactive objects like the explosive barrels with again, amazaing physics applied to them, great AI, the greatest hit impacts ever, actual wind physics, tons of stuff constantly going on in the backgrounds, and so on, to this day it did way more than any other current game on the market, 12 years ago. Motorstorm had fully destructible vehicles, again, in 2006. The examples go on and on, but the thing is, we are not getting any of those kind of breakthroughs anymore, the games aren't evolving anymore, they actually made like 10 steps back due to Jaguar CPU, and not even a 10Tbps storage drive will fix its limitations.