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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO

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Patriots7

Member
Marrying Sansa off to Robin would be Littlefinger dealing himself out of the game. He's only lord of the Vale until Robin comes of age, at which the title is Robin's. Not that that matters, because Robin's clearly a dead kid walking, but marrying Sansa to Robin would be a waste of time and marrying her to anyone else in the Vale means putting her a step further beyond the child of his (short-lived) wife. Sansa only helps him move beyond the Vale if she marries him.

He could sit behind the walls of his castle, but then instead of manufacturing a reason for all sides to favor him, he'd be giving all sides a reason to resent him. So instead of holing up in his castle, he's turning everyone against each other and putting himself in the perfect position to demonstrate his ability, loyalty, and worthiness to rule the North regardless of who comes out on top, as long as he's there right at the end to help with the final push that shoves whoever's weaker off the edge. You're talking about him making claims after the fact, when what he's working towards is his right being undisputed, self-evident, and singular.

He's not going to sit in his castle and wait for things to play out so he can say, "But look at meeeee!" Chaos is a ladder, bro. Gotta climb it.
Sansa is (to everyone who doesn't know that Rickon and Bran are alive) the heir to the North and potentially the heir to Riverrun (is Edmure alive?). I get that the show is trying to have Littlefinger play all sides. But they are doing it in an illogical fashion.

He can easily play all sides, while keeping his most valuable asset safe and sound.
 
This season is dragging on in the worst way. The last few episodes just seem like filler.

I actually thought Sansa's final scene was handled very well. It was very Tarantino-esque, in that they pan the camera away from the action and let the sounds drive your imagination, making it more violent / painful than actually showing it.

And the Sand Snakes seemed super weak. It's a 3 on 1.5 fight. GTFO
 

spootime

Member
Not on board with the show anymore at all. This just seems like such a dramatic drop in quality compared to previous seasons. The major story deviations that D&D have made this season have been absolutely terrible. I think Barristan dying and Jamie going to Dorne are what bother me the most, as Jamies journey through the riverlands is one of my favorite storylines in the entire series, and Barristan is a badass character. Sansa's winterfell deviation could have actually been fine if D&D were able to handle a storyline of their own making with any subtlety whatsoever.
 

tmdorsey

Member
What a minute. This is the thead for people who have read the books right? I'm asking because the flack people are laying on D&D for the rape scene is weird to me given to the fact that in the source material women are getting raped left and right.

You can make the argument given the situations Sansa has been it's damn near unbelievable she hasn't been raped already. Only so many close calls can be believable.

What did you guys expect Ramsey was going to do on their wedding night? Play nice like Tyrion and let Sansa just get a good night's sleep?

I think there's a lot of overreacting going on. Don't get me wrong it was very disturbing and uncomfortable scene, but it's not out of the realm of the situation that Sansa is in right now.
 

Speevy

Banned
No one is hating on Arya.

Well I knew the Sand Snakes were going to be stupid because they're the sand snakes, but I did enjoy a few beats.

1) Everything from the Arya part was excellent. Maisie WIlliams is a great little actress.
2) Diana Rigg is always welcome, though I'm not sure why Tommen can't say or do anything, even if he is just a boy. He could do SOMETHING.
3) Tyrion and Jorah are cool with me. I don't care how they get to Dany, because we all know they're going there.
4) Sansa showing a few more sides to her character with Myranda. It's better that she's not crying for once.


Littlefinger's just hedging his bets everywhere. What if he really doesn't care if Sansa dies? I liked that he outed Sansa since that was the only thing that had been bugging me about his already dubious plan.


Low parts included

1) Everything in Dorne. Wow. Horrid.
2) King Tommen's characterization, like he'd totally ignore Margaery.
 

Lautaro

Member
It's just struck me how similar Sansa's situation now is to Dany's situation at the start of the series.

The only problem is that she won't get dragons or some shit to give a sense of justice to the world... she'll probably be saved by Theon.

I truly hope I'm wrong and she ends up manipulating her way out of this (I don't know but getting Ramsay to kill his father could be a good start).
 
What a minute. This is the thead for people who have read the books right? I'm asking because the flack people are laying on D&D for the rape scene is weird to me given to the fact that in the source material women are getting raped left and right.

You can make the argument given the situations Sansa has been it's damn near unbelievable she hasn't been raped already. Only so many close calls can be believable.

What did you guys expect Ramsey was going to do on their wedding night? Play nice like Tyrion and let Sansa just get a good night's sleep?

I think there's a lot of overreacting going on. Don't get me wrong it was very disturbing and uncomfortable scene, but it's not out of the realm of the situation that Sansa is in right now.

Posting this again: she shouldn't have even been there to begin with. People aren't surprised Ramsay is a psycho, they're angry at how they've fucked Sansa's story six ways from Sunday for the reason of "giving her something to do" this season, and have turned her into a rape victim.
 
What a minute. This is the thead for people who have read the books right? I'm asking because the flack people are laying on D&D for the rape scene is weird to me given to the fact that in the source material women are getting raped left and right.

You can make the argument given the situations Sansa has been it's damn near unbelievable she hasn't been raped already. Only so many close calls can be believable.

What did you guys expect Ramsey was going to do on their wedding night? Play nice like Tyrion and let Sansa just get a good night's sleep?

I think there's a lot of overreacting going on. Don't get me wrong it was very disturbing and uncomfortable scene, but it's not out of the realm of the situation that Sansa is in right now.

Completely agree. Let's also not forget how romantic Khal Drogo was with Dany in season 1.
 

hoos30

Member
Bronn getting killed by that stupid cut would be terrible.

The rape scene isn't bad for the what it shows but thematically, it goes against Sansa's entire arc. It seems stupid right now but we'll see how the rest of the season plays out.
Do people who say this imagine that a character's arc is supposed to be a straight line?
 
MAn, the whole season has been an all time low for the series, maybe is for the best that they keep it at 7 seasons if we can avoid more chapters like this.
 

Burt

Member
Sansa is (to everyone who doesn't know that Rickon and Bran are alive) the heir to the North and potentially the heir to Riverrun (is Edmure alive?). I get that the show is trying to have Littlefinger play all sides. But they are doing it in an illogical fashion.

He can easily play all sides, while keeping his most valuable asset safe and sound.

He can't turn the Lannisters on the Boltons without putting Sansa in Winterfell first. Without that, if the Boltons were to defeat Stannis then Baelish is still just the lord of the Vale while harboring a traitor who only enables him to try his hand at being a rebel rather than being handed the North. He wouldn't even be in tight with the Boltons without delivering Sansa and that little speech about the lords of the Vale and the North taking down the Targs. Now, he's wormed himself in so well with Sansa that he could probably pull a Ned Stark 2.0 on the whole house of Bolton.

Plenty of illogical stuff going on this episode ("Guilty of perjury! The testimony of this person we would never believe and a birthmark that we didn't even bother to look at are more than enough evidence! Quiet, king!"), but putting Sansa out there is like the most Littlefingerish of moves.
 

Speevy

Banned
Well, I'd imagine any woman who just came to realize that her crazy husband, who feeds women to dogs, will have another man watch her lose her virginity would consider it rape.


Ramsay is never anything but crazy in the books, so in what universe would Sansa enjoy this man making love to her?
 

NeoGiff

Member
I'm going to avoid adding to the discussion about the n for the moment, and instead bring more attention to the other shitfest.

I was looking forward to making another obaraspearthrow.gif to laugh at. But that's impossible because we were given possibly the worst fucking fight scene I've ever witnessed (at least on this show). So many cuts, no sense of place or person... I couldn't understand what the fuck was going on. I praised Jeremy Podeswa last week, but as long as this scene is his and hasn't been moved from another episode, he may have had a fluke in his Thrones debut.

TL;DR - Dorne is fucking shit and insulting and I want to tear my eyes out.
 

duckroll

Member
This was a pretty strange episode. I thought the Arya stuff was good. The way they handled the chamber of faces was pretty impressive, especially by the show's standards, where things generally don't look as impressive as they were imagined by people reading the books. I really liked it. The Tyrion/Jorah stuff was pretty good too. The actors have good charisma and work well with each other.

Then it all sort of goes downhill with the remaining parts of the episode. The Loras stuff continues to be really embarrassing and a terrible representation. They're going in hard on the entire HURR HURR GAY DUDE SLEEPS WITH EVERYONE thing, which is honestly pretty shameful. The inquest felt really cheap too. It was a tiny room without much security, and the most important people in the kingdom are all in the room presented in the cheapest way possible. Really odd.

Same with the Dorne stuff. The Water Gardens looked really disappointing, especially how they decided to pull off a whole action sequence there. The action was bad. The location looked tiny and empty. The entire thing made very little sense. Somehow two different factions trying to kidnap the princess can sneak into a place where the most important people in the region are supposed to feel safe and secure in their private time. Just an awful scene.

The bad sense of scale continues with the Winterfall stuff. The "wedding" was so low key it almost felt like a non-event, and then well there was the bedding. Which was just kinda... stupid? I guess the best thing I have to say about the scene is.... at least there weren't dogs involved? Whatever. Lol.
 

ezrarh

Member
Do people who say this imagine that a character's arc is supposed to be a straight line?

The scene is a strong impetus for Theon to change but it never should have been meant for Sansa in the first place. I don't imagine any other woman taking it any better than Sansa considering how fucked up Ramsay. But another season of men shitting on Sansa is tiring and people are fatigued from it. We'll see what happens the last 4 episodes maybe it'll turn out to be the right decision.

As a side note - they should just remove the Dorne scenes completely in the bluray
 

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
Not on board with the show anymore at all. This just seems like such a dramatic drop in quality compared to previous seasons. The major story deviations that D&D have made this season have been absolutely terrible. I think Barristan dying and Jamie going to Dorne are what bother me the most, as Jamies journey through the riverlands is one of my favorite storylines in the entire series, and Barristan is a badass character. Sansa's winterfell deviation could have actually been fine if D&D were able to handle a storyline of their own making with any subtlety whatsoever.
Really? I thought sending him to Dorne was a good change since nothing really important happens in the Riverlands except Lady Stoneheart who despite Lena Headey hinting at seems to be completely cut from the show. The writers don't seem interested at all in the Freys or Tullys anymore.
 

Speevy

Banned
The sand snakes are the worst fighters I have ever seen.

These girls said they were trained. Wouldn't it have been easier to have just had them arrive to capture Myrcella, and then the guard shows up like what the hell are you doing here, then Bronn and Jaime get captured separately.

No one died in the fight, so what did it accomplish?
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I gave the Sand Snakes a pass during their first appearance, but this... this was just bad.

It doesn't help that they took sketchy characters and picked by far the worst actors ever to be cast on this show to portray them.
 
I think Barristan dying and Jamie going to Dorne are what bother me the most, as Jamies journey through the riverlands is one of my favorite storylines in the entire series, and Barristan is a badass character

Yup, the riverlands arc is my favourite and I still can't believe they just threw away lady stoneheart all together.
 

Hazmat

Member
I wasn't as down on the Sand Snakes from the earlier episode as some others were, but holy crap were they bad here. That might be the worst fight they've done.

Myrcella looks a lot like Gilly to me. Or, she looks a lot like how Gilly's actress looked in Skins.

Were the Faith Militant this unbelievably hostile in the book? A few episodes ago Cersei let them form, and they immediately dump the city's wine into the streets and shut down the brothels killing people in the process. The people of King's Landing don't mind the crown letting the church transform the city into a violent theocracy?
 

Speevy

Banned
Keshia Castle Hughes sounds like she's auditioning for a high school play every time she says anything.


I AM OBARA SAND

who-you-talking-to-o.gif
 
What a minute. This is the thead for people who have read the books right? I'm asking because the flack people are laying on D&D for the rape scene is weird to me given to the fact that in the source material women are getting raped left and right.

You can make the argument given the situations Sansa has been it's damn near unbelievable she hasn't been raped already. Only so many close calls can be believable.

What did you guys expect Ramsey was going to do on their wedding night? Play nice like Tyrion and let Sansa just get a good night's sleep?

I think there's a lot of overreacting going on. Don't get me wrong it was very disturbing and uncomfortable scene, but it's not out of the realm of the situation that Sansa is in right now.

The people are upset that Sansa is in Winterfell at all. Yes, this episode is not shocking in the sense that this was the probably outcome of the choice to have her there, but people never wanted her there in the first place.
 

Speevy

Banned
Yup, the riverlands arc is my favourite and I still can't believe they just threw away lady stoneheart all together.

Lady Stoneheart is and always was a terrible idea for the show.


If anything, the sand snakes prove this. How you ask? Well, it's impossible to give two shits about characters who were related by blood to a character that we liked, so why are we supposed to care about Lady Stoneheart? Unless she straight up walked up to Walder Frey and pulled his head off, there's no way that would lead to a satisfying scene.
 

Speevy

Banned
The people are upset that Sansa is in Winterfell at all. Yes, this episode is not shocking in the sense that this was the probably outcome of the choice to have her there, but people never wanted her there in the first place.

Well, both Ramsay marrying a fake Stark and Sansa being in the Vale are boring storylines.
 

Chris R

Member
So now that the episode is airing for the first time on the West Coast I did some tinkering on my TV.

With "Black Levels" set to "Light" I can actually make shit out in the very dim scenes, even if it is now washed out to hell :(

Arya stuff was much more impressive now that I see the columns and every wall decked in faces and not just the little area they ended up infront of.
 
Well, both Ramsay marrying a fake Stark and Sansa being in the Vale are boring storylines.

The Winterfell storyline is only boring if you remove characters like Abel/Wyman/Barbry/Karstark/Freys.

Of course we can't have any of that because the show cut all of them.
 

hoos30

Member
The scene is a strong impetus for Theon to change but it never should have been meant for Sansa in the first place. I don't imagine any other woman taking it any better than Sansa considering how fucked up Ramsay. But another season of men shitting on Sansa is tiring and people are fatigued from it. We'll see what happens the last 4 episodes maybe it'll turn out to be the right decision.

As a side note - they should just remove the Dorne scenes completely in the bluray
Yeah, I'll defend the show all week, but there's no saving the Sand Snakes...they were terrible on the page, no surprise they are terrible on screen too.
 
At least the Arya scenes are great. Seriously the part where she says she hates the Hound was so good. I'm guessing Trant is the new whatshisface night's watch dude that she killed in the books.
 

hoos30

Member
So now that the episode is airing for the first time on the West Coast I did some tinkering on my TV.

With "Black Levels" set to "Light" I can actually make shit out in the very dim scenes, even if it is now washed out to hell :(

Arya stuff was much more impressive now that I see the columns and every wall decked in faces and not just the little area they ended up infront of.


Plasma rules.
 
So did the show just spoil was LF will actually do in the books, he will actually have the knights of the Vale to claim Winterfell of Sansa in the aftermath of the Stannis/Bolton conflict?
 

Javaman

Member
Seriously.

"Hey, so you remember that guy who killed your older brother and your mother? Well he is here holding Winterfell, your home, and I want to marry you to his son so you can join their family. Sound like a good plan? Nothing can possibly go wrong."

I still can't get over that.

What I don't get is that they know that she knows that they killed her mother and brother, yet don't suspect any treachery.
 
The Winterfell storyline is only boring if you remove characters like Abel/Wyman/Barbry/Karstark/Freys.

Of course we can't have any of that because the show cut all of them.

they cut the whole iron islands, I think its safe to assume at this point that they will try to keep the story limited to as few key characters as possible..

that reminds me, so no penny either ?
 
Man that fight scene was with the sand snakes was hilariously bad.

Fucking Adebisi showing up and saying cock merchant

No Danaerys

You gotta look at the positive sometimes
 

Chris R

Member
Plasma rules.

I'm watching it now on my Plasma.

With my regular (not optimal at all) settings the blacks are great but that scene is still way too dark to make much out. When I just toggled the black levels setting the blacks went pure gray and everything washed out but at least I could see what they were going for.

Probably doesn't help that I can't get a pitch black room to watch the show in until November with the stupid sun being up all the time now :(
 
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