Purple Cheeto
Member
And Gurm the gardener isn't? He used up his plan on the first three books. Now he has nothing left.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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And Gurm the gardener isn't? He used up his plan on the first three books. Now he has nothing left.
spootime
Member
Jaime going through the riverlands is the last major catalyst in his transformation as a character. You see him transition someone who thinks with his sword (and his dick) first to someone who learns to think things through (and he realizes that hes pretty good at it). Furthermore you see him realize how toxic his relationship is with Cersei, and eventually end it be ignoring her letter. I mean, we already started this off pretty well in previous seasons when he goes back for Brienne and saves her from the bear. Why not continue this storyline? You dont even need LSH! Although shes awesome!
I really love this transformation in the books because it is so well done, and it makes you like a character that pushes children out of windows. Thats the beauty of GRRMs writing, you really want to like a character despite the horrible things that they have done.
I think the issue with this in the show is that there arent any ~shocking moments~ to slap onto the end of an episode. This journey into Dorne has been fucking terrible so far. Its one step under slapstick comedy, especially with the terrible way this last fight with Jaime and Bronn went. At least have Areo Hotah axe a motherfucker or something, jesus christ.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Maybe they do, though. Ugh, I REALLY hope the old "North Remembers" lady isn't a Ramsay plant (though I love the nickname Gramsay Bolton).
Atraveller
Banned
But he can actually write.
What the fuck are you going on about?
The Sand Snakes were silly in the books. Arianne being such a strong presence made it a little more believable. It stressed the whole 'things are different in Dorne.' Without that, they look even sillier live-action.
If nothing else, the show has captured that feeling from the books that Westeros has become a miserable, fucked up place. The horrible people win and all that. The show, with the score and smug looks just makes it so much. . .more. This is game of Thrones.
TV Jorah is more likeable than book Jorah. Probably not going to happen now, but him taking his Father's place on the wall would be something. Maybe its a cliche, but Jorah/Tyrion and Jamie/Bronn are turning into the best things this season.
Tommen is fucked. I thought there might be a chance he survives, but letting crazy cultist take your wife is some kicking the puppy level stuff.
Sparrows seem more imposing than I remember from the books. Maybe its meant to balance out the R'hllor stuff. That'd be +1 to the King Stannis crowd.
Bron being poisoned would be annoying. Show desperately needs some sort of likeable character.
Preview for next week looks less dour, but overall this season could be bleak.
If nothing else, the show has captured that feeling from the books that Westeros has become a miserable, fucked up place. The horrible people win and all that. The show, with the score and smug looks just makes it so much. . .more. This is game of Thrones.
TV Jorah is more likeable than book Jorah. Probably not going to happen now, but him taking his Father's place on the wall would be something. Maybe its a cliche, but Jorah/Tyrion and Jamie/Bronn are turning into the best things this season.
Tommen is fucked. I thought there might be a chance he survives, but letting crazy cultist take your wife is some kicking the puppy level stuff.
Sparrows seem more imposing than I remember from the books. Maybe its meant to balance out the R'hllor stuff. That'd be +1 to the King Stannis crowd.
Bron being poisoned would be annoying. Show desperately needs some sort of likeable character.
Preview for next week looks less dour, but overall this season could be bleak.
I feel like people are projecting too much of what they want Sansa to be in regards to growth development to how much she has actually grown, books or show-wise. She had little baby steps of accepting she was in a shit position and doing what she needed to do to survive but that doesn't at all mean she takes a magic jump to super manipulator on the level of those "playing the game". Being a survivor in an abusive situation she has been in may make her a strong character in that sense but I feel people are widening their definition of strong character for Sansa to something she has not really shown just to justify their outrage. Sansa is no Dany, she took a different path and thats the path people are projecting on to Sansa which isn't really fitting at all. And Dany was on that path before the dragons.
Ramsay marrying a fake Stark has a shit ton of implications for the book, and also contains the Theon chapters of Dance With Dragons which are by far the most redeeming chapters of that book. I don't know how you can really say it's a boring story line if we haven't seen how they are going to play out yet in the books?
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
The Jorah and Tyrion scenes still are the best thing in this season so far.
I hope it is a Ramsay plant, just so the rescue has to be entirely Theon on his own.
Whenever it came out that it was a plant, that would be the perfect time for Theon to help her.
This until the most obvious final moment in the series of whitewalkers vs dragons which will be in the books, in some form or shape
Purple Cheeto is here so we have to throw around 'GURM' and shit 4th and 5th books. Nothing else to add from him
PhoenixDark
Banned
You know what all this reminds me of? Rob Zombie's Halloween. Specifically the crass, unnecessary beginning where we learn exactly how young Michael became Michael Myers.
I'm going to bed. Basileus777
Member
I don't understand how you think the books are subtle about this either. ASOIAF is crass and grotesque in ways the show doesn't even approach.
Your wish...
...is my command.
LOL
toastyToast
Member
Your wish...
...is my command.
The bit of green behind the shutter makes it look like she's actually rolling by lmao
Atraveller
Banned
Thank you, I'm tweeting this.Your wish...
...is my command.
It does because this is a show with 7 seasons and Ramsay Bolton is a psychopath who will probably die.
For whatever damage it did to the Winterfell plot, Sansa being there is infinitely more interesting than a character who isn't in the show already. The longer a show goes on, the less welcome new characters become.
Sansa already stood up for herself once in this episode. Now she's lost her innocence. Next, she'll learn how to outmaneuver these horrible men without anyone's help.
How would she become a better character being shielded by the knights of the Vale in seclusion? What would we gain from seeing Ramsay torture another character.
Wouldn't an easier path to Reek's redemption be through telling Sansa that her brothers are alive, and helping her escape, perhaps even killing Ramsay?
You have to understand that this show goes from point A to point G, from G to R, and R to Z. All the points that are so carefully laid out in the books are sacrificed, and so some stuff makes much less sense. However, I'd much rather them cut out ALL fake outs, resurrections, pretend characters, warging, and other stuff that takes screen time from the best characters. This Dorne storyline should have never been featured, but I don't know if I'd trade it for a bunch of people that show Ramsay would have killed already.
Purple Cheeto
Member
Are we sure about that?
The first three books consist of the only material he planned, it was supposed to be 1 book and he stretched it to 3. Part of the reason he has taken so long to write anything since the first 3 books is he is a self professed "Gardener" and doesn't plan his story ahead and has no map or outline or real idea where he is going.
And since he really has no incentive to figure out what else to do with the story he simply doesn't.
Your wish...
...is my command.
Fantastic haha
Your wish...
...is my command.
THANK YOU. You are awesome.
Atraveller
Banned
Basileus777
Member
You're wrong about the first three books. He didn't plan and outline those either. GRRM always talks about how he started with that first direwolf scene and discovery wrote from there. He wrote the whole series the same way. It just wasn't until after ASOS that the structure of the story collapsed on him.
A lot of the problems of AFFC/ADWD were actually because of how he ended ASOS.
I would stick with the original "Smells like shit" line.
Basileus777
Member
Uh, this existed in the books, the show just put a different character in and made it a lot tamer.
PhoenixDark
Banned
But he did plan, the problem is that his plan - ie the five year gap - didn't work. Which resulted in him showing a variety of stuff he had planned on skipping or revealing in exposition.
hipsterpants
Member
Your wish...
...is my command.
the jaime reaction is what makes it perfect.
Intheflorsh
Banned
In the future, I think I'll be able to look back and pinpoint the exact moment I mentally checked out of the series... when Bronn had his sword hand caught Harrison Ford style.
toastyToast
Member
I'd hate to see the reaction if she get the full Jeyne Pool treatment
Please edit your post, I posted in wrong thread and it may be spoiler-ish.
Your wish...
...is my command.
Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.
Intheflorsh
Banned
Of course.
Why do you feel this wasn't rape in the book?
hammertomb
Banned
She probably will get some more in order to push theon to the limit.
I felt the scene itself was actually well done, it certainly achieved the goal of being shocking and traumatic and fucked up.
The problem of course is the storyline which led to the scene. Yes, it makes sense for a monster like Ramsay to rape his new wife. But how does this make sense in Sansa's arc, exactly?
They presented her progression so far as someone who will no longer be a helpless victim, so having her raped after all that sort of takes us a few miles back.
I certainly agree with the people who suggested they should have made her take control, a bit like Dany in the latter part of S1, or TWOW PREVIEW:
But it seems like they decided it was more important to have Theon be present and moved to help Sansa escape, rather than keep Sansa's development on an upward trajectory.
I'll wait and see what they do with this storyline. But If I had to guess, they'll have Sansa kill Ramsay with the desire for the audience to interpret it as some sort of victory for the victim over the abuser or something along those lines.
The problem of course is the storyline which led to the scene. Yes, it makes sense for a monster like Ramsay to rape his new wife. But how does this make sense in Sansa's arc, exactly?
They presented her progression so far as someone who will no longer be a helpless victim, so having her raped after all that sort of takes us a few miles back.
I certainly agree with the people who suggested they should have made her take control, a bit like Dany in the latter part of S1, or TWOW PREVIEW:
Sansa's approach to dealing with Harry the Heir.
I'll wait and see what they do with this storyline. But If I had to guess, they'll have Sansa kill Ramsay with the desire for the audience to interpret it as some sort of victory for the victim over the abuser or something along those lines.
Your wish...
...is my command.
Oh my... This is incredible.
Grandma's delivery of the north remembers is ultra lame, so logic goes with it's a trap.
I'll be wrong of course
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
She is Azor Ahai.
10 No's and a yes make a yes?
I always looked at that scene as rape and i'm surprised by people not seeing it as such. She was groomed by her brother and basically sold off as a bride.
Atraveller
Banned
Better not be trap, I'm sick of watching Sansa being a victim.
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